Arete Podcast #16: Unveiled With Author Debbie Lynn

[00:00:33] Hello everybody, welcome to The Arete Podcast. As always I'm your host Jake and I am

[00:00:39] Extremely happy to introduce to everyone Debbie Lynn author of the unveiled book series and

[00:00:47] Specifically Revival the first book in the series. How are you doing today Debbie?

[00:00:50] I'm pretty well. How are you? Oh, you know

[00:00:54] I've been preparing for this interview for like two months. So I'm very excited that it's here

[00:01:01] That's that's a quite a long time. So now I'm interested to see what questions you have for me

[00:01:06] Oh, they're coming but I will let you know this is more of a conversation

[00:01:11] Not so much an interview. So I guess there are no limits here

[00:01:14] But the first thing I would like to know and I'm sure everybody else would like to know was who is Debbie Lynn and when did she start writing books?

[00:01:22] Oh, wow

[00:01:24] So I started writing when I was about three

[00:01:28] I started I started reading it too and I can remember writing on an old

[00:01:33] DOS program on the computer

[00:01:35] And put a little pictures with my stories and I still have a bunch of them actually for when I was little

[00:01:40] Like in a cabinet over here. So that's pretty cool

[00:01:43] So yeah, I've wanted to be a writer my whole life. So

[00:01:47] I'm a therapist and I just kind of say that that's my backup plan for you know until writing pants out

[00:01:54] Do you do you find that being a therapist helps you write characters because I will say

[00:02:01] Obviously I've read the book and there's a lot of

[00:02:04] I don't want to say inner monologue, but there is but

[00:02:08] It seems like you have a really really good grasp on all the characters motivations and how they ended up where they are

[00:02:14] So do you find that your background in therapy helped you with that? I would imagine it would

[00:02:18] Yeah, for sure and that's a huge compliment that

[00:02:22] You can tell like that I know their motivations

[00:02:24] So that's that's really good because you know sometimes we read a book and that doesn't happen

[00:02:30] So I'm really happy to hear that but yeah

[00:02:33] I'm a person who has a constant like inner monologue or inner dialogue going and so my characters do and

[00:02:40] Sometimes I hear other readers that say that that annoys them, but

[00:02:45] That's how I think and I'm a therapist so I get inside people's head. So that's how I'm gonna write it

[00:02:51] So the best way I could describe the sense that I got when I was reading the book because I definitely picked up on that

[00:02:57] And it doesn't annoy me, but it is a bit more at least in my estimation

[00:03:02] It is a bit more of a modern

[00:03:04] I don't want to say trope but trend and modern books, but at the same time your book does have a bit of a timeless quality in the pros and the way you write

[00:03:13] Which I thought it was a really nice combination because the dialogue is very

[00:03:17] contemporary and the best way possible, but the the way you tell the rest of the story is

[00:03:24] I would chalk it up to the same way you would have read something from

[00:03:29] Pretty much any decade at least in the United States. You know, it's not right

[00:03:32] It's not overly wordy at all, but it also paints a vivid picture

[00:03:36] So I love that balance because my personal pet peeves is when

[00:03:41] Somebody's describing like the landscape or the background for like three paragraphs and I'm like, okay

[00:03:46] I get it. It's snowing. Let's

[00:03:48] So you're not like a king or a token fan as much

[00:03:52] So I am a token fan however I will confess

[00:04:01] That this thing right here the silver alien

[00:04:05] Literally the hardest book. I've ever read

[00:04:08] There were days I read it when I was in high school the first time and they were days where I would read a paragraph and be mentally taxed

[00:04:15] It's a hard read

[00:04:18] Not not a huge Stephen King fan though, honestly

[00:04:22] I love his mind. I don't like his words

[00:04:28] You know what because I love a lot of the movies that are based off of his books

[00:04:34] But I've tried it well, I've read a couple and then there were some that I tried to read and I just I just can't

[00:04:40] It's not my cup of tea. I'm not here to say Stephen King is not a good author

[00:04:43] I mean obviously he is but it's definitely not my cup of tea

[00:04:48] So is revival your first published book?

[00:04:56] Yes, and no so

[00:04:58] It is the first book that I have

[00:05:00] marketed and really put out there as being published

[00:05:04] Because it is self published so you know, I had to do there's a lot of work that goes into that

[00:05:09] But I did write a book a couple years ago and I ended up holding it because I want to

[00:05:16] Read as I undercover and get another edit pass and all that stuff

[00:05:20] I mostly published it for myself and it is actually very

[00:05:23] Therapy based like it's about trauma and illness and yeah, so I was very proud of it and I want to get it out there, but

[00:05:32] I

[00:05:34] As an author this is very common. We're always like oh, you know, it could be better. It could be better

[00:05:39] When is it done? It could be better and so I I felt really good about it and then I decided

[00:05:44] You know what I does need like another editing pass so it's not currently available, but so that has been out

[00:05:50] But as far as like marketing and you know

[00:05:53] Doing the TikToks and you know telling people that it's out there. This is the first one

[00:05:58] Well good job

[00:06:00] Because it is so at least don't take this so wrong way but when because you and I connected through my mother who is

[00:06:07] You're coordinating with her on some special release candles for your book tour and we'll touch on that in a moment

[00:06:13] I'm gonna be honest because you and I are from the same hometown

[00:06:16] So when she told me that she met someone from said town that wrote a book my initial reaction was

[00:06:25] Really okay

[00:06:27] like

[00:06:30] I know it sounds bad, but if you're from our hometown

[00:06:33] You probably I mean

[00:06:34] I'm not from here, but I do live here so that was my next question is are you from there or and whereabouts because a lot of people and I get it

[00:06:43] It's a very small town but I'm actually from a smaller part just outside of said small town

[00:06:49] So it's easier to just say you're from that small town so that was my next question is are you from said small town proper or

[00:06:56] I'm a couple hours north

[00:06:59] So I yeah, I moved down turn 18 move down here and I have family down here and then

[00:07:05] ended up moving where I currently live

[00:07:09] nine years ago for a job

[00:07:12] Got it. Okay, so that explains it, but so I I was not expecting but then she actually told me she's like no

[00:07:19] No, no, it's it's published she neglected to mention that it was a published book that was for sale at the time

[00:07:24] So that was my first I was like oh okay. I said yeah. I'm gonna I'm gonna check this out. So I bought a copy and

[00:07:32] I got to say I started reading it and instantly I was

[00:07:36] I was hooked in the sense that I wanted to know more. I wanted to know more about the world

[00:07:40] I I was very intrigued from the get go so you've got a good hook the whole concept of the unveiling for those who don't know

[00:07:47] Actually, you're the author. I'll let you give them a spoiler free synopsis of what your book is about

[00:07:54] So um obviously I knew you're gonna ask this

[00:07:58] And one of the things that in the author community we talk about all this time's like what's your elevator pitch

[00:08:04] What's your one sitting statement? I I cannot succinctly

[00:08:08] Get an elevator pitch down which is why I write novels instead of shorts

[00:08:12] I'll show you like me. I'm the worst at describing things people

[00:08:16] People would literally ask me like oh what's that book or movie about and I'm like just read the synopsis because I'm gonna do an awful

[00:08:22] Yeah, yeah, I remember writing a book a few years ago and

[00:08:26] Taylor Swift speak now had just come out and was kind of the soundtrack to my book

[00:08:30] And I was just like she just said in three minutes what I'm taking a hundred thousand words to say. I was pretty mad

[00:08:37] So as a synch please possible

[00:08:40] This is an a modern day urban fantasy story the protagonist Tory she wakes up from a coma and

[00:08:48] Discovers that not only has her boyfriend moved on with her sister

[00:08:53] But the world is now full of magic and the unveiling which you mentioned was what they call

[00:08:59] event that inevitably put her into the coma and

[00:09:04] Was when kind of availed between our world in the

[00:09:08] magical world fell and now

[00:09:10] There's magic everywhere and so she kind of gets pulled into some trouble and lives a bit of a double life and keep secrets from people she loves and

[00:09:18] Try to stop a major

[00:09:21] Disaster from happening from the inside so

[00:09:25] Yeah, that's how that's how I would describe it's a very nice elevator pitch

[00:09:32] And something that you won't

[00:09:34] Anyone listening this you won't pick up on unless you read the book is how

[00:09:38] And I swear I'm not trying to sell your book. I mean, I am but I'm not trying to make it sound like this is the perfect book

[00:09:44] But I mean it was extremely good

[00:09:46] Like I said you've got a very good hook I

[00:09:49] Thought the introduction of Tory waking up from a coma was genius because it's a great way to get us in the non magical world

[00:09:56] Introduce to it right along with our protagonist so I'm like if this were a movie this would be perfect

[00:10:02] Like this would be the best insert character

[00:10:06] For this kind of story. It's fantastic and I love how as you read the book more more as a reader

[00:10:13] You get more comfortable with magic because when you're first reading it

[00:10:17] It's just like with Tory you get weirded out by things but by the time you're I'd say about

[00:10:21] Three quarters of the way and you're just like oh, yeah, totally that that's a thing that happens here

[00:10:26] Yeah, yeah, that's totally a thing that can happen here

[00:10:32] And then I also

[00:10:35] Wanted to ask you as far as because all your characters I well I like all the characters you're supposed to like because obviously there's characters that you're supposed to hate but

[00:10:46] And particular killing is always an enigma for me, but I knew that for you're gonna bring up well he's an enigma for everyone

[00:10:56] But as far as characters go

[00:10:59] In terms of your inspiration

[00:11:01] Who is Tory?

[00:11:04] How did that character get put together?

[00:11:08] Um

[00:11:11] This is interestingly the first book I've written and like I said it's the first one that's really been out there but I've written

[00:11:17] I have a

[00:11:19] Does one or more you know half finished or finished but not edited book so but she is the first protagonist that I've written that is not

[00:11:26] A self insert character, so

[00:11:29] So she's completely made up and that was really interesting for me

[00:11:33] So I could do whatever I wanted with her and she doesn't really have a

[00:11:38] particular inspiration other than

[00:11:41] I loved reader of infinity. I've been reading urban fantasy for years

[00:11:44] And so do you read other urban fantasy novels Jake?

[00:11:48] I

[00:11:48] Before I answer that question. I'm going to qualify with a question my own

[00:11:52] Okay, give me the academic definition of urban fantasy

[00:11:57] So urban fantasy is basically fantasy in a modern

[00:12:04] Typically modern world where magic and like regular world coexist in some way and

[00:12:12] It's set in an urban area as opposed to like a rural area. That's a big obviously factor of it

[00:12:19] Because I was I was gonna say if that's before you got to the urban area

[00:12:23] I was gonna say I mean if you count Harry Potter has urban

[00:12:27] Fantasy maybe yeah, it's kind of on the outskirts. There's some debate about it

[00:12:32] Yeah, because it's like they go to London

[00:12:35] What the vast majority of it is in a castle somewhere else so

[00:12:40] Short answer I'm gonna say probably not I haven't been exposed to a lot of it

[00:12:44] I guess would you consider

[00:12:46] Which no I didn't I didn't finish twilight? I don't know if you would consider twilight urban fantasy or

[00:12:52] It's something oh yeah, I was gonna say I

[00:12:55] To be fair before I'd just because I was exposed to the movies first of twilight and I tried to read the first book and I'm just like this is not happening

[00:13:04] I am so far away from the target demographic for this book. This is not happening

[00:13:09] Yeah, yeah same a little bit closer than you I guess but same but yeah there's

[00:13:14] Currently a lot of things that weren't originally considered urban fantasy are now by some people

[00:13:20] So but in it's more

[00:13:22] You said kind of academic definition those wouldn't be but so things like I love dressed in files

[00:13:28] Which has a male protagonist you might like those

[00:13:31] But I was introduced in like 2007 to kind of the staples of modern urban fantasy

[00:13:37] You'd be like Elona Andrews has the Kate Daniel series and Patricia Briggs has the Mercy Thompson series and

[00:13:43] So we got a lot of like wear wolves and vampires and you know this stuff and they're dark and

[00:13:49] The I don't have one here, but the covers are all very similar

[00:13:53] They're kind of leatherclad crop tops. They're swords and maybe a moon maybe a wolf and they're very dark colors

[00:13:59] And I love that and I've been reading it for years

[00:14:02] And at first I was like oh look at these like strong characters, you know these strong women

[00:14:07] These bad I don't know if we can curse spell you know these that

[00:14:10] I'm kind of bad ass women, you know

[00:14:13] Taking the world by storm and I love that

[00:14:16] But after sorry door was opening um after so long I kind of got

[00:14:23] Tired of it and I said you know I want a world that's like not quite as dark

[00:14:27] It still has its secrets and initially the story

[00:14:32] Had a kind of a different tone to it but then I I just it kind of I was like oh I want a love triangle

[00:14:37] And which I know a lot of people hate but I just eat up and well

[00:14:42] In the subject of love triangles like a lot of people may say they hate it

[00:14:45] But it's a it's a trope and literature for a reason or a reason yeah, yeah

[00:14:51] And so like I wanted that which ended up transforming it's you know you read it

[00:14:54] So you could see that it's not kind of your traditional of triangle but I

[00:14:59] Wanted I just came up with a coma idea and I thought oh this is you know what I want and I tried to think what

[00:15:07] How would she be beneficial to the scheme that she gets involved in and so that's where her history with the classical languages

[00:15:14] And cultures comes in and I do have a degree in linguistics. So that was interesting to me

[00:15:20] Although I was I was gonna touch on that later. Please continue

[00:15:24] um

[00:15:25] I ended up going I had two bachelor's degrees and the other psychology and I went that path

[00:15:29] But I have a passion for words and for linguistics and languages and

[00:15:33] Sometimes when you read a urban fantasy novel the there's a lot of other languages usually Latin in there and I

[00:15:40] Opted to not conjugate the verbs

[00:15:43] Because I didn't want to do it wrong, but they know it's still in there so her

[00:15:47] Her ability to understand those obviously kind of gets her in some trouble, but

[00:15:53] It helps her out so and that was an interest of mine but otherwise she would just kind of this mesh of

[00:15:58] I wanted girly I wanted skirts and converses and

[00:16:02] Not being so strong that she's afraid to cry and you know all of that stuff

[00:16:08] So if you look at the cover, she's very

[00:16:11] Not leatherclad not carrying a sword

[00:16:13] So I want to kind of be antithesis of everything I read but was still the backbone there that made me love the genre

[00:16:21] It's it's almost as though the at least the vibe and not being super familiar with urban fantasy

[00:16:26] You can correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like based on what you've described is you took all the elements

[00:16:31] That make the skeleton of a story fit into loosely fit into that genre, but you stripped away all the things that would be considered

[00:16:39] I don't know like

[00:16:41] Almost cliches of the genre made it a little bit more accessible and universal

[00:16:46] Yeah, and that's what I was going for and I do feel like

[00:16:49] That might hurt me

[00:16:51] Sailwise

[00:16:52] You know because if you murdered as an urban fantasy

[00:16:55] If the cover looks different you know

[00:16:58] It looks different from stuff that's out there so I feel like people who they want that

[00:17:03] Might not go for it as much, but that's okay because the people that want that but a little bit off to the side

[00:17:11] seemed alike what I'm writing so yeah well and I was as far as like I said being someone who

[00:17:18] You had to explain urban fantasy to me

[00:17:21] I enjoyed this book a lot and I would venture to say that I'm not really even smack dab in the target demographic for this book

[00:17:27] And I enjoyed it because the story is

[00:17:30] just

[00:17:31] magical enough to

[00:17:34] Take you out of the everyday world, but it's grounded in a very very solid way that so you can step in you can

[00:17:42] You can step into the world and it's not immediately like

[00:17:47] Drawing visions of

[00:17:49] Hercules the legendary journeys there's a zina warrior princess or in the like kind of over the top

[00:17:54] You know granted those are ancient folkloric fantasies, but it's like wow

[00:17:59] I'm actually yeah

[00:18:01] Zina would be who you'd seen on the cover of an urban fantasy novel. Yeah, that's what first came to mind

[00:18:06] I was like oh Zina, but in modern day New York got it. Yeah, yeah exactly

[00:18:12] Exactly and I

[00:18:14] I'm sorry you go ahead. No, um I am a huge both of the vampires layer fan

[00:18:19] And so I was actually at times I was a little upset with myself

[00:18:23] Like this isn't buffy enough

[00:18:25] But the another project I'm working on I'm working on the sequel to this and something else simultaneously and it is I said okay

[00:18:33] I'd have more of a buffy vibe more of a grim vibe if you watch that show and um so

[00:18:39] I'm getting a little darker with that one, but I still really like that this one is

[00:18:43] kind of its own, you know, it's like a magical realism

[00:18:46] Contemporary urban-esque fantasy so yeah

[00:18:51] I'd say that's an apropos way to describe it. So suburban, maybe

[00:18:55] Some of them will know the setting is very urban because that's another thing

[00:18:59] So there's this thing app and that trust me. This is a me thing because I thought the same thing about the fault in our stars when I read it

[00:19:06] So for those of you who don't know

[00:19:08] Focus setting and inapolis I live in inapolis to me it's always a little to me

[00:19:14] It's always a little strange to read a book that's set in

[00:19:18] Indianapolis because when you point out landmarks

[00:19:22] I know where these places are and I've seen them and to me it's weird, but I would imagine some people would really dig it

[00:19:28] Because like for example

[00:19:30] uh the fault in our stars mentions the funky bones

[00:19:34] I don't over recall it a statue. It's in the newfields park but anyway

[00:19:38] I've seen funky bones and

[00:19:41] and

[00:19:43] It's a little underwhelming if you've actually seen it because the book makes it seem much cooler than it actually is

[00:19:49] And I'm like yeah, but you didn't like describe anything

[00:19:55] So detailed that

[00:19:57] So like I know what it looks like but to somebody who has never been here they would be like oh that must be a

[00:20:03] Hip area to go and I'm like yeah, I'm mass Avenue. It's not really bad. It is like oh

[00:20:07] I mean, I mean it is

[00:20:09] The graphic it's mass Avenue. Yeah, well that's what I mean by that is like

[00:20:14] Massav is a very long road, but the section you're talking about is only like two blocks

[00:20:21] Yeah, yeah, so if that's what everybody means when they say massavs

[00:20:24] Anyone who's from Indianapolis knows exactly they're like yeah, that's right and everybody else is like what the hell are they talking about?

[00:20:31] Yeah, one of the

[00:20:33] If you were to Google like how to write a urban fantasy novel one of the things you're gonna find

[00:20:38] Every time is that the setting should be a character and

[00:20:42] I actually I kind of feel like I could do better with that here

[00:20:46] But some of those others like when I mentioned the Kate Daniel series did a great job of that it's said in Atlanta

[00:20:53] And but it's like a kind of a post-apocalyptic

[00:20:56] Atlanta and so she really describes like the different areas of town and some have been like overrun with with plants

[00:21:03] Cause technology doesn't work and but so she really gets into the details and you know she lived there

[00:21:09] And so I really like that to an extent like you're saying at some point

[00:21:14] It's a little too much, but if it's

[00:21:17] Turned on its head like she does then it's kind of okay because it can be different how you need it to

[00:21:21] So here I was like well

[00:21:23] I mean it to kind of be its own character, but it's not as important right now

[00:21:28] I think it will be in another book, but so I just kind of tried to sprinkle a few things in there

[00:21:33] Mojos the

[00:21:35] The coffee shop I went and she mentioned and they're going to poetry readings

[00:21:39] I went to those poetry reading ice my bread poetry at some of them as very sad when it closed down

[00:21:44] So it made a little yeah, I was gonna say I would that that took up to me too

[00:21:48] I'm glad you mentioned it because our America's I too have been to mojos

[00:21:51] Not an avi-ca not an avi-ca not an avi-ca coffee drinker. I've been there like once but I was like oh mojos

[00:21:57] Yeah, so another um so on the subject of landmarks in the necklace

[00:22:02] I have a very very specific question

[00:22:05] Right?

[00:22:06] Is brams

[00:22:08] Manchin the dolphin mansion

[00:22:11] It is no particular mansion okay. I was wondering because I was like

[00:22:16] I wonder if this is the dolphin mansion

[00:22:20] Yeah, no it and

[00:22:23] That was intro he was very well

[00:22:25] It was all very interesting, but so killing an en-brand underwent some major changes and

[00:22:30] During the writing process and brams character was always the same but

[00:22:36] His

[00:22:37] Neighborhood was very different originally it was kind of it was like a dilapidated old house and and

[00:22:44] Why would he live there does anybody even live here at all and then when I

[00:22:49] Put a little twist in there to his identity. Yes, okay, we can't he can't be doing that anymore

[00:22:53] So I just gave him a rizzi neighborhood where all these McMansions are all together and

[00:22:59] Obviously they have a decent amount of land between them, but you know, so not didn't have a particular place in mind

[00:23:04] But I knew I needed him to have like the sprawling entrance and the big staircase and all that stuff

[00:23:09] So he so he lives in caramel

[00:23:12] Pretty much

[00:23:14] But like not as far away as caramel

[00:23:17] It's we all know where that line is where it's like it's technically not caramel, but like one street away is

[00:23:24] Yeah, and I didn't specify where you know they spend a lot of time at

[00:23:29] Marine as apartment and been at house and sometimes a brams mansion

[00:23:33] But I didn't really specify where they were in towns you could just kind of

[00:23:36] Pick in your head if you know the town and otherwise you just you know whatever and I appreciated that because like I said

[00:23:42] That's an annoyance to me personally, but you didn't do it to the point where it's like

[00:23:46] I know exactly where everybody is

[00:23:48] You know it's like you said the world's been turned on its head

[00:23:52] So let me ask you this now speaking

[00:23:56] Speaking of Indianapolis, so when you get rich from your

[00:24:01] Books and your movie royalty rights

[00:24:03] Are you gonna open up pages and potions in Indianapolis?

[00:24:08] I mean

[00:24:10] Like I could but

[00:24:13] There wouldn't be really magic like real magic stuff in it

[00:24:16] But interestingly, so we have books and bruises. Are you familiar with books and bruises?

[00:24:20] I drive are you talking about the one that's in fissures or is there another one?

[00:24:25] I know I

[00:24:27] Thought there was one more downtown it

[00:24:30] I think there is too. I'm just unfamiliar with the one in fissures because I drive past it every day

[00:24:35] Okay, but so that's where I played with the name of books and bruises because I knew I couldn't actually use it

[00:24:41] You know

[00:24:42] But I really liked the

[00:24:43] Feel iteration and the kind of connotation there even though bruise there means you know beer

[00:24:48] But here I needed a potions like a more magical thing, but so I play with a lot of different ideas

[00:24:54] So I mean it would be pretty cool to have a pages and potions whatnot get so kind of new agey stuff even if

[00:25:00] I was gonna say there's there's plenty of stores that do it and you I mean you can have fun with it obviously your stuff can all be branded. So

[00:25:08] True, true

[00:25:10] Put that cap on you know after they have after they make the second movie you'll be said

[00:25:16] Okay, so

[00:25:19] I mean I would love it obviously the the percentage of books that that that happens to is very very small

[00:25:26] But my teenager you know is just like oh, it's gonna be the next Harry Potter. I'm like notes

[00:25:30] Just don't just that's that's silly don't even say okay. I'm not trying to get your hopes up

[00:25:35] But that was one of the first thoughts I had

[00:25:38] Because I can the way this story and granted it's only the first book too. Yeah, and I said to myself

[00:25:44] I'm like this could be a movie so easily like the adaptation would be seamless

[00:25:51] Thank you. I see that happening so actually a personal favor if first time I get first chance

[00:25:57] I get could you sign this for me? Yes does I'm I'm telling everybody

[00:26:02] There the first link in the description is the Amazon link to buy your copy of book one by it now because I'm telling you

[00:26:09] This is gonna be a collector's item one day

[00:26:13] I don't even know who said that thank you

[00:26:15] It will be but so now I'm gonna nerd out with you a little bit because I had a hunch

[00:26:20] That you somehow had an academic background in linguistics because that's not something that people just throw in randomly

[00:26:27] There's an interest there but what's funny is I had the suspicion of that

[00:26:31] But then I looked at your bio and I read your bio. I'm sorry in the book and it didn't mention

[00:26:36] Anything and mentioned your therapy background? I was like oh well, maybe

[00:26:40] Maybe she's just a linguist nerd like me and just didn't have the formal

[00:26:44] Education but when you said that I was like I knew it because

[00:26:48] Nobody throws Latin and certainly not Sanskrit in yeah just willy millie

[00:26:54] Yeah, I really wanted that Sanskrit in there because you don't see that very much

[00:27:00] In the right of yeah Sanskrit gets slided

[00:27:04] Yeah, and also so I'm also a yoga teacher. I wear a lot of hats and and so in yoga

[00:27:11] There's a lot of Sanskrit words so

[00:27:14] You know familiar with the exact words that were in the spell that she was reading but

[00:27:20] I know it is a classical language alongside Latin and Greek and so said you know what we're gonna throw that in there and I feel like that just kind of

[00:27:27] Is another part of

[00:27:30] Stuff that I love the linguistics in the Sanskrit in general and yeah, so

[00:27:34] I did I have a bachelor's in linguistics and I actually got into a doctorate program in floor at the University of Florida

[00:27:42] for psycholinguistics

[00:27:44] Which would have been amazing but you you really do much with that you can research

[00:27:49] And you say that sounds that sounds a little you know that sounds a little niche

[00:27:55] Yeah, yeah, so I thought yeah, I mean, you know, I really want to doctorate

[00:27:59] But I can't afford it but basically I just want people to call me doctor so is that really worth all of the study

[00:28:04] You can't afford it yet

[00:28:07] It's common one day

[00:28:09] So and I got in there and as a great school

[00:28:13] Obviously I ended up not going but

[00:28:15] Psycholinguistics is basically how language works in your brain and I took a

[00:28:22] A gradual level class in undergrad

[00:28:25] That was second language acquisition and it kind of merged some my psychology and linguistics degrees

[00:28:29] And I fell in love with that and I was like this is what I'm gonna do

[00:28:33] But it's not as practical in the everyday salary range so I went the other way but sometimes I just think oh

[00:28:41] I wish I would have done more linguistics stuff so so I guess my way of honoring that

[00:28:46] Well, and that's that's the thing that

[00:28:49] It's not a criticism but one of the things that I've kind of come to realize over the years is that

[00:28:53] Because I too different artistic passion creative passions

[00:28:56] But I have them but they don't always pay the bills so that's like you have to do something that pays the bills

[00:29:01] But you do something that pays the bills

[00:29:05] That is a means for your creative endeavors and then hopefully one day the creative endeavors pay off

[00:29:10] But at the end of the day, at least you get that outlet somehow. Yeah, so it's definitely

[00:29:17] But speaking of linguistics though I've said virtually my whole life because I've always kind of

[00:29:22] I've always loved language I just had token nerd when I was in middle school

[00:29:26] I taught myself and wrote notes in the Elvis 10 Mar Alphabet and

[00:29:31] Actually I actually taught my French teacher. I made her a translation chart

[00:29:36] Because she saw me writing my notes in it and she is like what is that? And I said oh, it's Elvis so we had a lot of fun for a year doing that

[00:29:45] Language is a superpower. So it's really interesting that it's

[00:29:49] Maybe not the basis for magic in your universe, but it's definitely an element to it because there are several instances of

[00:29:57] Tori being able to perform magic simply

[00:29:59] Panting the Latin word or other characters use the Greek word and like you said there's a spell and Sanskrit

[00:30:06] And I love the idea behind words having power. Yes, because they do

[00:30:12] Yeah, yeah, and language

[00:30:16] I've always said language is a gateway to culture because

[00:30:20] I'd say my number one language that I'm currently learning on

[00:30:24] Teaching myself Spanish and I'm finally getting the hang of it

[00:30:27] But as a native English speaker, there's just things in Spanish

[00:30:35] It's not even that they don't translate

[00:30:37] It's just that they're structured differently. Yeah, and it gives you insight on how the culture

[00:30:43] Developed because of those differences and then you have other languages to French and German for example

[00:30:50] And then you have Japanese which

[00:30:52] linguistically is really weird because the sentence structure is different. There are no plurals, but it gives you insight on the culture

[00:31:00] Yes, yeah, and

[00:31:02] Yeah, Latin and Greek would be very much the same way so I was nerding out every time

[00:31:08] I was like I'd love to drop some actual Latin in here, but I understand

[00:31:13] Yeah, I kind of wish that I would have but I don't know

[00:31:17] I just I decided not to for different reasons

[00:31:20] Maybe my other universe will. I don't know, but yeah, I just I love language when I took a historical

[00:31:27] linguistics class I like drew on my walls the like maps of languages and you know

[00:31:34] I was just the culture the anthropology have a minor in anthropology and I just

[00:31:39] Like I just love the interplay there and I'm actually learning Romanian right now

[00:31:45] Learning do a lingo how like how much do you are but you know

[00:31:49] Actually, you learn a lot would do a lingo. That's my jean

[00:31:53] Yeah, I see I see that on your Instagram. Yeah, you know, I could say random phrases that you would never save real life, but

[00:32:01] I just thought I find it really interesting because you know, it's a romance language

[00:32:05] But it is the romance language that has retained more of the vulgar Latin than the others and so and then it has like the the

[00:32:12] Cyrillic and you know, it just if the Slavic influence doesn't necessarily like alphabet but it just it has more of the

[00:32:19] Different like outside influences than the other romance languages so I just like sometimes I just go down a rabbit hole of

[00:32:25] Nurtying out over the history of it and they don't actually learn any new vocabulary that day

[00:32:29] So well, let's let's nerd out for a minute because you said one of my favorite phrases vulgar Latin

[00:32:35] Now obviously for those of you who are listening you recognize the word vulgar

[00:32:41] Hmm, but where do you think we got the word vulgar from you know I

[00:32:50] Volgar Latin is one of those things where I have to when I look like when I'm reading about it

[00:32:54] I have to remind myself what it is like where where in the timeline do we call it vulgar Latin?

[00:33:01] You know, it's just one of those things, but I know the word and I can throw it around like I'm fancy so

[00:33:07] Well, it's true, but then my other favorite one is where we get the word vandalize

[00:33:12] That's a fun little history fact. Yeah, I'm not familiar with that the vandals were the Germanic tribe that sacked Rome when they invaded from Carthage

[00:33:20] Okay, yeah, and they erected

[00:33:24] They absolutely wrecked it so yes, that's where we get the word vandalized from nice

[00:33:30] Yeah, I'm a big hi level that stuff we took um, what was it in English in high school?

[00:33:37] We had a elective class you could take only as a senior Brit lit and so we read bail wolf and

[00:33:43] Chaucer and you know, we had to memorize the prolonged the cannabory tales and all this stuff and I just

[00:33:49] Everybody was like oh, I guess I'll take it because it's an honors credit but I was like looking forward to it for four years

[00:33:54] So yeah, I love that so much. Yeah, I don't know why you wouldn't look forward to it

[00:33:58] Why wouldn't you? I mean I started reading and that's not Brit lit, but I mean it's classical literature

[00:34:03] I read fast for fun and I reading the divine comedy currently so

[00:34:09] That's another tough read that's a long one, but it's worth it. Yeah, it is the one I didn't like was

[00:34:17] Crime and punishment talk obviously different area, but yeah

[00:34:20] I need to read it though because I tried to read it years ago and I just could not get into it

[00:34:25] But it's such it last toy Fsky in general is just such a

[00:34:30] I've heard him describe I've heard him described by some as not not the perfect author, but it's like it's must read

[00:34:38] I had to muscle through that. I listened to the audiobook on my commute and

[00:34:45] That was like the worst for me that and

[00:34:48] Kafka met in board visits like oh, I just you know

[00:34:52] I loved read I like I said I've been reading for my entire life

[00:34:55] But there are some books that you feel like you have to read or you know people bring it up and you pretend

[00:35:01] You nod along like you have read it, but I just I don't feel that pressure anymore

[00:35:06] And so there's some like you tell me you want me to read

[00:35:09] You know some other Russian literature, but I'm I don't I'm not going to

[00:35:13] I did that with

[00:35:16] There and I lost for years because I started reading it and I couldn't get into it, but then people would

[00:35:21] Close it or like they go in like oh yeah, yeah, Milton yeah and after I because I I bunker down and actually finished it

[00:35:29] I don't remember a damn thing from it so now I'm like any time somebody's like quoting milk

[00:35:35] And I'm like you there's no way you've read that whole book

[00:35:38] Right sure

[00:35:40] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, because I don't remember a damn thing from that book

[00:35:46] Yeah, there are some that I read in like a p English. I remember we read um animal farm and

[00:35:53] I love animal florida the flies I love both of those I

[00:35:57] You know I had a very bad experience in that class with the teacher it was horrible

[00:36:04] If it if discussion of that class comes up with my peers it'll be like oh the devil and carnit because it's just that's yeah

[00:36:11] So how to very bad experience so basically anything we read in that class

[00:36:15] Just really tainted by that but I just don't feel the need to go back and try to reread them

[00:36:20] But there's too many books in the world to read so yeah, that's true. No, I was surprised by Lord of the flies because I was made and normally

[00:36:27] I was one of those people especially when I was in school if you told me I had to read it

[00:36:31] I didn't like it

[00:36:32] um animal farm and Lord of the flies might have been the only two exceptions because in my

[00:36:38] English-lit class

[00:36:40] I had to I had my choice in the least

[00:36:43] awful choice I thought was gonna be Hemingways a farewell to arms and I

[00:36:48] Hate Hemingway

[00:36:50] With a passion I'm in particular in in particular. I can't stand a farewell to arms especially the end I I can't

[00:37:00] It's it's

[00:37:01] Was not my cup of tea

[00:37:04] I was disappointed because I love the movie with Chris O'Donnell

[00:37:08] That was based off of it and then but though it was the book what's different the yeah the book was different

[00:37:14] Maybe I need to watch because I haven't seen the movie maybe I'm in love and war

[00:37:18] Oh, okay, so it's not even a fair world of arms. It's but it's based off of it. Yes, yes

[00:37:24] The boy loosely based off meaning they got rid of all the bad shit anyway

[00:37:28] We got a comment from Haley she said I love that she said in high school

[00:37:31] She read they will because I read that my senior year as well

[00:37:36] As well the crucible and the great gas with the crucible's a great book. Oh

[00:37:40] A crystal ball that is a play technically though, right? Yeah, Arthur. Oh, yeah, that's play

[00:37:46] And it's great too. I saw the movie and I'm like I got to read the book now

[00:37:50] Yeah, we read it and then

[00:37:52] Watched the movie and it is one of my favorite movies. I haven't seen it in a while

[00:37:55] But yeah, I love that movie. I love the book and we had to like make our own play based off of it and

[00:38:01] I remember I wrote a poem about I of course, I don't remember it now

[00:38:04] But I remember you know a lot of times we'd have an assignment and I would write like a poem or a short story for it

[00:38:09] And yeah, I love the crucible

[00:38:11] I still get chill every time I watch this scene because it's my name. I still get chills

[00:38:16] It's so good. Oh, yeah, I've got to go watch that out. I watched it fairly recently and every time

[00:38:22] I'm like I get chills every time I watch that scene

[00:38:26] Yeah, I love my

[00:38:28] Sorry, go ahead. No, no, go go for it

[00:38:31] I was gonna say my like there's a lot of kids in school who are like

[00:38:34] I don't want to read this and because we had to read it they didn't like it like you said

[00:38:39] Fahrenheit 451 one of my top books

[00:38:41] I love it so much to read that in eighth ninth grade whatever

[00:38:46] I see I tried to read it on my own and I just couldn't get into it

[00:38:49] I'm going to have to give it another shot because I hear

[00:38:51] I hear phenomenal things about it

[00:38:53] I just could not which that was that way from 1984 to I tried to read it in high school couldn't get into it and then I re-read it as an adult

[00:39:01] And I'm like oh, I get it now. So yeah, and I think that that is definitely a part of it and like reading level

[00:39:06] I had an advanced reading level and so

[00:39:09] I mean well

[00:39:11] It's not in comprehensible obviously was a sign was on the you know the reading list for whatever grade it was

[00:39:16] But I feel like some people were able to get it better than others, you know and and stuff so

[00:39:20] Yeah, but I I love that one. I love Brad Berry and

[00:39:26] There was a

[00:39:28] Michael B. Jordan was in the show

[00:39:30] Yes, I never I didn't want you because I didn't have whatever streaming service, but I still need to watch that

[00:39:34] But yeah, I

[00:39:36] I loved that one so much and I remember like um oh well, was it herel s book was it the good earth?

[00:39:44] That's right. Yeah, and it was like a

[00:39:48] Chinese culture and with foot binding and that's how I remember that and I was so disgusted

[00:39:53] You know, they like the whole foot binding thing but also I've really big feet so I was like hey, but

[00:39:59] They might have had something

[00:40:01] Yeah, so you know I remember a lot of the stuff that we read and

[00:40:05] A lot of you know some people don't but I just I love books so

[00:40:10] Well, as you can see I

[00:40:12] Love books do just can't write for shit, but I love to read

[00:40:17] One more linguist nerd out moment

[00:40:20] Yeah, it actually it actually confused me when I started reading the book because you introduced a concept

[00:40:25] Or rather the difference I should say of magicians versus mages and

[00:40:30] At first I was like wait a minute this feels like it should be reversed

[00:40:34] But then I actually looked up the definitions and I'm like no

[00:40:39] She's 100% right because if you look up the definitions of the words

[00:40:43] It's just mage has this sort of

[00:40:47] Field that it should because of how it's presented in a poll culture that it should be higher up on the hierarchy

[00:40:53] But the technical definition of a mage is one who studies magic

[00:40:57] Whereas a magician is someone who performs magic or is able has magical abilities and in your book the people

[00:41:03] That have innate magic are magicians and the people that learn magic are mages and after I

[00:41:09] Set my after I correct myself on that set that is so cool

[00:41:14] Yeah, when when I talked to people about it while I was writing and I had some people I bounced ideas off and stuff

[00:41:20] And they kept getting it backwards and I was like no this is like this is how it is and I know that that's different

[00:41:26] But part of it was

[00:41:28] Dragonage the video games one of my top two video games of the other being silent hill and the the mage

[00:41:36] Oh my gosh, it's

[00:41:38] Spacing me at the moment, but they have like their templates and their mages and they have all the stuff and and so I really was like I need mages

[00:41:44] But I need them to be like the kind of study like and Dragonage

[00:41:49] And I didn't like the term magicians because I think about top hats and bunnies

[00:41:52] But the show and the books the magicians were cool so it's like I were gonna go that

[00:41:57] But I did it that way on purpose like you said so I had a feeling you did because

[00:42:03] I remember thinking it after I sent myself straight

[00:42:06] I was like this had to have been deliberate because I'm sure that she would have thought to herself

[00:42:12] People are gonna think

[00:42:14] Top hats and bunnies right yeah, but now that I learned

[00:42:18] I absolutely love that little detail and I'm a big fan of little details in stories and media

[00:42:24] So yeah, I get really excited and I see that it went from my it went from my absolute favorite thing

[00:42:30] I mean, I went from something that absolutely confused me to one of my favorite things in the book so

[00:42:34] Oh good yeah, I actually I drew out a like a little

[00:42:39] Diverim for myself and I was trying to figure out case we like what if you have wizards and mages and

[00:42:44] Magicians and you sorcerers and like I was trying to figure out all my terminology and sorcerers didn't make it in but

[00:42:51] Maybe something else but yeah

[00:42:55] That's true you never know there's there's a lot of rooms

[00:43:00] There are yes and that is you know something that is brought up is

[00:43:04] Some of the people in the book just say the other realm and but Bennett you put the plural on there and

[00:43:11] That's definitely gonna come into play in the sequels

[00:43:15] Absolutely wonder I imagine though when the first movie there's gonna have to be an aside

[00:43:20] Line of dialogue and a scene where

[00:43:23] Probably Bennett will have to explain sort of so no this is why we call the magicians because I have a feeling it's gonna be in there

[00:43:30] Because some studio executive is gonna be like what magicians or top hats and bunnies right

[00:43:36] And I saw that I saw that show about the D&D game and that's not how they call them it

[00:43:42] Okay, I have a feeling that'll be in the movie

[00:43:46] But speaking of because we're talking about other realms and sequels

[00:43:51] Do you know how many books are gonna be in the series yet? Do you have that laid out I think for

[00:43:59] I've played around a little three to five but four is what I haven't said at

[00:44:05] And it has changed a bit as far as how it's going

[00:44:08] The overall series arc and I actually when I decided to write a series of never written a series before

[00:44:15] And I said I was gonna write a series and I had been reading one of my other favorite urban fantasy

[00:44:21] Series is the October day series by Sean and the Glyre and it's a book like 18 or 19 or something now

[00:44:27] And I was on book I don't know 12 or whatever the time

[00:44:29] Because it took forever to write this and and I was like, I want a series that's 20 books and dressed in files

[00:44:36] Is set you know on 19 or whatever and but then I said okay. I can't tackle that much on my first series

[00:44:41] So we're gonna go I think for and they're actually set like three threeish months apart from each other

[00:44:48] So the sequel is set on New Year's day

[00:44:51] And so this one revival is a Halloween story and then this the book two is gonna be new years

[00:44:58] And then book three which doesn't have a name yet is springtime

[00:45:03] So we're gonna have some in d5 hundred many marathon action in there. So you

[00:45:08] Just a personal request you are under no obligation to do this for me, but I

[00:45:14] Hate the mini marathon

[00:45:16] So much because here's the thing I live off of 10th Street

[00:45:22] The speedways off of 16th Street

[00:45:25] Mm

[00:45:27] Every year I forget the mini marathon is a thing and I work all well okay here's okay. No. I'm gonna I'm gonna argue this

[00:45:34] I'm gonna stand on this soap box some of us have to work on Saturdays and some of us live south of 70

[00:45:42] And have to get to work

[00:45:44] But you people that want to wake up in the wee hours in the morning and run for fun

[00:45:51] Why you block off every single main road?

[00:45:56] So not only do I have to take a detour that sends me 15 to 20 minutes out of my way, but so there's everyone else

[00:46:03] This your power and yeah my normal work commute on a Saturday is like

[00:46:08] 25 to 30 minutes it took me an hour and a half

[00:46:13] Oh my god to get because they're also doing construction on four six five of course they are yeah

[00:46:19] Yeah, of course they are I ran the mini twice like a decade ago and it has been my goal

[00:46:26] Every year for so many years since then and I'll think about it when I start here and all the mini stuff

[00:46:32] And then I'll be like obviously it's too late for this year but next year and then for whatever reason

[00:46:38] I just I won't train and yada and so this year I actually last year I was like okay

[00:46:43] I'm gonna do it 2024 then I broke my foot in November so

[00:46:47] No 24 many obviously it's passed but maybe next year

[00:46:51] Okay, if you want to run it it can stay but I just need to remind myself of it

[00:46:56] Yeah, I think I don't know who's gonna run the mini maybe that'll just be really annoyed by it like you

[00:47:00] I don't know but there's definitely some at least like a bit of that that

[00:47:06] weekend or that month you know that we have here so if there's a scene where

[00:47:11] They're stuck in traffic because they space them any marathon. I'm I'm gonna geek out so back

[00:47:19] I'm gonna geek out so bad if that's it like I said no obligation whatsoever obviously

[00:47:23] But I would love that I would love them. You know, I think I think maybe Casey might run it

[00:47:29] Maybe I'm not Casey Casey seems like the type that would run many

[00:47:34] I mean when we meet him he's wearing like basketball shorts

[00:47:37] Like I you said Casey and I'm like that of anyone in the story

[00:47:41] He's no I don't think it's been been it is I feel like Bennett might be stuck in traffic trying to meet Casey at the finish line maybe

[00:47:50] That's yeah that that drives which makes sense you wrote the care

[00:47:54] Um, but speaking of sequels D. I know when will the second book be released?

[00:48:00] So I have been aiming for January

[00:48:06] So revival I

[00:48:08] actually wrote as my 20

[00:48:12] 17

[00:48:14] Mano rival

[00:48:17] Mano rhino novel and that's every November national novel writing month in a bunch of

[00:48:23] Nerds around the world get together virtually and in person and commit to writing a novel in the month of November and so I have

[00:48:32] 12 or 14 or whatever novels that will never see the light of day

[00:48:35] But this one I really really liked and so I would over the years I would pick it up and dust it off and add to it and everything

[00:48:43] So it mean it took me

[00:48:46] For five years, you know to finish

[00:48:48] So I said okay, I'm gonna write this sequel and I wrote

[00:48:54] A quarter of an a third of it whatever

[00:48:57] Two years ago for November and November and then life happened in it

[00:49:02] That's not progress like I would like and then I got it about half done and

[00:49:07] Last summer decided to rewrite the entire thing

[00:49:11] So I felt like it was

[00:49:18] It was too it wasn't median enough

[00:49:20] The what I it wasn't median enough so then I went back and now it's like I might have actually overdone in some places, but

[00:49:26] So I had to add some more meat and some more complexity and I got stuck on it for a while for like five months and so I started

[00:49:32] I worked on this other project instead

[00:49:35] And then I with fresh eyes I went back and read it and on page like three I was like oh my gosh

[00:49:41] That's that's gonna unstick me one sentence. That's gonna unstick me so then I went back in and I started rewriting and

[00:49:47] So we're we're trucking away on it. It's it's anyone who's ever done anything creative knows that feeling and then

[00:49:53] It's so funny what brings you out of it just the most random thing yeah, yeah

[00:49:59] But yeah, so I'll be looking forward to that because

[00:50:02] I both loved and hated the ending because it's

[00:50:06] There's both to oh I knew what you were doing

[00:50:10] And I'm sitting there the whole time I'm like I know you're playing me

[00:50:14] But I want more you surprised by how it ended like you said you knew so

[00:50:20] Well, I knew you were I knew what you were doing once I

[00:50:23] Read the ending so it was like oh okay like obviously now I want to second book now like I wanted immediately

[00:50:32] So in a way as a reader I was so

[00:50:35] Not annoyed but frustrated but as someone who wants you to succeed. I was like oh this is brilliant

[00:50:42] Yeah, well if you I mean obviously you don't want to be like too spoilery but I kind of saw this book as like an origin story for the

[00:50:50] universe that the main

[00:50:53] Story that's gonna be kind of a series climax is said in

[00:50:56] Yeah, so I had to set up the coma the relationship the the world and so this is part of that

[00:51:03] And I love that there are a lot of unanswered questions because we still don't

[00:51:08] And we still don't know

[00:51:10] fully the story behind Tories coma

[00:51:14] I'm trying not to spoil anything but yeah, so there are still mysteries about and

[00:51:20] Well virtually every character is left in some sort of uncertain fate

[00:51:25] And I'm also a big fan of like non-traditional endings and I love how

[00:51:30] Not only did I mean very virtually nothing got wrapped up by the end of this book

[00:51:35] But not really some people including my editor but

[00:51:41] Well, I did I love this I loved it because that's real life right

[00:51:46] Right yeah well and if I wrapped everything up you why would you read book too?

[00:51:51] Exactly, so I totally I totally get it and I understand the temptation was probably there

[00:51:56] It's like oh, but what if they don't it's no trust me. I think that was fantastic

[00:52:01] Yeah, and how it I mean

[00:52:03] the main the big things that you read in that book we're always gonna be there

[00:52:08] so you know, so it's like I said gram and

[00:52:13] Killing it especially under what a huge makeover but

[00:52:17] But the the big plot points were always they you always gonna be there

[00:52:24] What did you think about killing

[00:52:28] So how do I I mean I imagine I took him exactly the way

[00:52:36] You wanted me to as a reader because at first I was like okay, who is it first he's a mystery

[00:52:43] And then

[00:52:45] Shortly after that I'm like I don't know if we can trust him and then we get to a point where

[00:52:51] Personally I was like oh we can totally trust him and even when there's doubt I'm like now we can trust him

[00:52:55] He's

[00:52:57] He was

[00:53:02] And this isn't you know a spoiler, but he's so he's the one that comes to Tori and says hey

[00:53:07] I need to recruit you for this. I'm gonna blackmail you for my boss and we need your magical powers

[00:53:13] Because the coma that she was in has made made her strong even though she doesn't know how to control her magic

[00:53:20] It's made her magic pretty strong so

[00:53:23] He comes to her and he's like hey, you know you gotta do this or else we're gonna hurt your sister

[00:53:27] And initially he was the enforcer of

[00:53:31] The whole scheme so he was like

[00:53:34] He was a bad guy and I said I need him to be redeemable though and how he was written

[00:53:39] He was not redeemable. He could not be a friend to her let alone the possibility of more

[00:53:46] So I had to

[00:53:48] Really change a lot about him and some of the other stuff that we learned about him was always there

[00:53:54] But it didn't it was too in congruent with his enforcer role and he hated being the enforcer

[00:53:59] But he did it and just like he's still he's not redeemable that way so yeah, yeah

[00:54:03] I will say the I'm not even gonna call the twist but

[00:54:07] Killian's motivation in the story

[00:54:10] I thought was done really really well because it would have been very easy to do like a

[00:54:16] It would have been very easy to do it a different way and while I wouldn't say

[00:54:20] It's it's something that makes sense

[00:54:23] But is not what you typically find in sort of like a fantasy book series that this so I

[00:54:30] I actually really like that and we don't we still don't really know exactly what went down there either

[00:54:36] So I mean, that's the book too

[00:54:39] Yeah, that's what's happening look go. I know I know you're playing me

[00:54:43] It's okay, so yeah, I'm very excited

[00:54:47] Book two is very exciting for me and I haven't decided when like when I write the blurb in when I market it

[00:54:56] If a big thing of the book is gonna be like a twist or if I'm just gonna lay it out and say this is what we're doing

[00:55:02] So I also I won't say it here but it tackles the whole thing of of book two

[00:55:07] Which is called remittal is it tackles his motivation and how he got to where he is

[00:55:14] And there's still some lingering questions about the backstory there. So I kind of string you along for a bit like

[00:55:22] How did we get in the place that we're in but I think you're gonna be satisfied with it hopefully

[00:55:28] I'll I'll I'll I'll let you stream me along because I know the payoff will be worth it

[00:55:34] And I will say this too at no I wouldn't say this but there are parts of this book that as I was reading it

[00:55:40] I thought it was gonna be predictable, but then it wasn't

[00:55:43] How good yeah, it wasn't predictable. I didn't see I didn't see the ending coming at least not the way it happened

[00:55:51] and

[00:55:53] I can see some people maybe

[00:55:56] Getting frustrated with that because it does take a bit of a turn

[00:55:59] But I viewed it as

[00:56:01] something that would realistically happen when

[00:56:04] they do the thing that they did with

[00:56:08] The the

[00:56:11] So don't want to give anything away the thing that they do

[00:56:14] It's a logical thing that would happen. I could have that right

[00:56:18] Yeah, well as logical magic and you know everything can be so

[00:56:22] And I also love that the

[00:56:25] I

[00:56:26] So I put this the the big change at the end of the novel is very much a

[00:56:32] force of nature in the sense that

[00:56:35] He or she really doesn't particularly care one way or another

[00:56:41] And I loved that characterization because I'm like that's I think you're it like yeah

[00:56:48] Why would

[00:56:50] He or she care about what's going on and I love how you wrote it as like

[00:56:56] They were observing with like mild amusement

[00:57:00] Like I love this. This is great

[00:57:04] So speaking of book two, I'm given to understand that you're going on a book tour

[00:57:09] Soon

[00:57:12] Book tour is kind of an interesting word in your mom likes to use I'm like well, it's not really like a book tour

[00:57:17] But are you going or are you going different places with your book I am going different places my book

[00:57:24] Yes, so I could see why you would say that but so I'm going

[00:57:27] I am in the process of setting up a couple of things here locally in this small town and

[00:57:35] Some book signings at some shops and stuff and

[00:57:39] Kind of got side tracked

[00:57:41] From those but gonna get back on that

[00:57:43] But at this summer I'm going to a couple of book festivals

[00:57:46] I'm in Louisville and Columbus and then I have a couple others that are up in the air maybe so

[00:57:52] Yeah, I'm gonna go out there and sit with a bunch of other authors at a table and tell people about my book and work on that elevator pitch

[00:58:00] Well, I probably should even tell you this much but

[00:58:07] If you're interested see if your schedule open the first week of November

[00:58:11] Okay

[00:58:14] I actually can't talk about it legally yet, but it's it's okay

[00:58:19] So it's coming and I did when

[00:58:22] This thing started to come into fruition. I was like oh

[00:58:27] I

[00:58:28] Would love it and I

[00:58:30] It would be very appropriate to have Debbie at this thing so

[00:58:34] Okay, well, came in came in came in did it. I was gonna say as that information becomes available

[00:58:38] I will let you know but

[00:58:41] Everyone if you want to know what that is stay tuned to the podcast network. You'll be yeah, I see where you're right there

[00:58:47] You'll be you'll be informed as

[00:58:50] We can but I will definitely let you know as soon as I can

[00:58:55] That have to have to get clearance from the lawyer

[00:58:59] Yeah, I gotta do that. Yeah. Oh no, I've learned the hard way it's late the lawyer says don't talk about this

[00:59:05] Don't talk about it

[00:59:07] Especially on live streaming

[00:59:11] But I was told I can plant seeds if I wanted to okay

[00:59:16] But that does bring me to another question because you are self-published

[00:59:21] So first of all, mad respect for that because

[00:59:26] I mean doing anything I was gonna say doing anything by yourself

[00:59:30] It's got to be very very difficult and I imagine there was a pretty steep learning curve

[00:59:35] For sure, yeah, that's to put it mildly

[00:59:39] So if you would be so kind walk us through with that process is like because maybe someone's listening to this and it's like I have a book

[00:59:47] But I just can't get any traction with it

[00:59:50] What's the road of self-publishing like?

[00:59:53] Well, there's a lot of crying a lot of cursing

[00:59:58] I

[01:00:01] Got involved with various you know Facebook groups and stuff that really helped me with that

[01:00:08] And what I did

[01:00:11] There's a Amazon has a serial

[01:00:16] Not fiction does serial reading platform called Kindlevela and I don't actually like serial reading for a lot of reasons but

[01:00:26] I thought you know, I'm seeing a lot of people who are pretty successful on this and

[01:00:31] So I went on there and my

[01:00:34] Revival has been there since Halloween of 22 which was cool and did that on purpose obviously?

[01:00:41] I was interested actually released it on Halloween

[01:00:44] Yes, yeah, that is so cool. Yeah, and then then the paperback and the ebook released on Halloween last year

[01:00:50] So yeah

[01:00:53] so

[01:00:54] But so I put it on vela which one meant I got some some comments and some feedback from readers

[01:01:00] But I also got paid for people to read it so that then I could pay for the things that you need

[01:01:06] Like an editor and a graphic designer because you should not make your own cover unless you are an actually a graphic designer

[01:01:13] That is the first thing that people see and we say we shouldn't judge a book by it's cover

[01:01:17] But if you're on Amazon or Barnes and Noble or whatever and you're looking through like that was designed by a fourth grader

[01:01:23] You're not gonna open it up. So what we do we do marketing is marketing

[01:01:28] So yeah, so I you know

[01:01:33] I found a cover designer that I like they did a lot of fantasy stuff their portfolio was good

[01:01:37] So I did that I found an editor one thing. I will say if you are interested in self publishing

[01:01:42] Do not scramp on an editor

[01:01:45] I see a lot of people in these Facebook groups are like well, I don't have money

[01:01:49] So I'm just gonna have some friends look at it. You know I have a degree in English

[01:01:53] You know what so do I like I have a minor in creative writing. I have masters degrees like

[01:02:01] I still needed an editor and I kind of wish that I had

[01:02:05] paid more for one and gotten a little bit of a different experience but I know for next time

[01:02:10] So that's that's very important, but

[01:02:14] Google is your friend in self publishing there are a bunch of templates and checklist and

[01:02:19] Timelines like if you want to publish on Halloween here's the date by which you should have xy and z done and so that stuff is really helpful and I

[01:02:28] I got into research mode a little too hard as I tend to do and so I have so many of those

[01:02:34] That some of them you know gave different answers and I tried to do the best I could to make a work

[01:02:40] but yeah, it's

[01:02:43] Make friends in the writers community it is really it you know in the kind of a Kindlevella community I

[01:02:49] Made friends with some other writers and I'm in a writing group of women

[01:02:52] There's a Facebook group called moms who write which is the best Facebook group ever and I'm in a writing group with some women from that

[01:02:59] That group and so we talk about writing in vela and publishing and we critique each other stuff and

[01:03:06] That has been hugely helpful for me and then I can pass my information that I've learned

[01:03:11] Sometimes the wrong way you know on to other people

[01:03:15] But there's no one particular path to it, you know Amazon is the person the biggest Brooklyn quiet

[01:03:24] Of course, you know the biggest distributor out there

[01:03:27] But some people choose not to use it and they I feel like have a bit more of an uphill climb

[01:03:32] But I use Amazon as well as the other big distributor which is Ingram Spark and

[01:03:37] So Ingram Spark gets my books to like Barnes and Noble and book shop and all these other places

[01:03:43] But as a self published author you will probably not be in bookstores unless you just do really well

[01:03:48] And then Barnes and Noble or whatever are willing to pick you up, but so you're gonna be looking online

[01:03:52] Which is you know I'd love to see my books in a store one day. Maybe one day, but for now

[01:03:57] I'm doing okay online so you know

[01:03:59] I see that happening as you get more

[01:04:02] Traction and some more books. I see that happening. I truly do

[01:04:08] Any advice you would like to give to the aspiring authors out there self published or not?

[01:04:16] I think that been I'm gonna give this to myself as well

[01:04:22] Prioritize is a verb

[01:04:24] Okay, this is I actually just told a client this yesterday

[01:04:28] You know

[01:04:29] I don't make new years resolutions

[01:04:31] I started making intentions a few years ago

[01:04:35] And so I would make the intentions of being more present being more creative and that worked for a couple years

[01:04:40] But I saw this

[01:04:42] Tweet or whatever a couple years ago, and it was like instead of making resolutions or even intentions

[01:04:47] Ask yourself why them are going to prioritize this year and it's fell in love with that prioritize is

[01:04:53] The verb you know intention is not and so

[01:04:57] I use that in a lot of areas of my life, but I am a solo parent

[01:05:01] I am a therapist I'm a yoga teacher. I am tired all the time and so there are a lot of times where I'll go in these spurts of not writing and then

[01:05:11] I get kind of like antsy because I miss it and I have to prioritize it, you know even if it's 15 minutes at your whatever

[01:05:18] I have to prioritize that creative outlet and so if you have a goal to publish

[01:05:23] Or not publish you but you want to write you have to prioritize it otherwise it's gonna fall to the way side and you're gonna regret it

[01:05:32] Yep, I can definitely agree because the whole point of like hard casting is not writing trust me

[01:05:38] But it is definitely something where when I first got into it

[01:05:43] You have no idea how much time it takes up

[01:05:46] Like it's it's truly amazing and it's just like you said um not a parent but

[01:05:52] I

[01:05:53] Oh my own business. It's well two of them now actually, but I only count them one

[01:05:58] But it's it's I'm like having a baby because I'm there a minimum you know 50 60 hours a week

[01:06:03] So I have multiple podcasts that I do in a week and then I have one that I do every other week

[01:06:10] And then I have this one that I do monthly but I'll come home and be like oh I'm exhausted. It's like I have to go

[01:06:18] Get online in an hour and and in that time I have to eat and I have to do all the other junk that has to be done

[01:06:28] But you gotta prioritize it because the people that subscribe know we're going live it data clock

[01:06:34] Yeah, we're going live it data clock whether I've eaten or not and

[01:06:38] I'm exhausted. You can eat while you're podcast right?

[01:06:41] I mean I suppose you I suppose you could but I personally I found upon that so I wouldn't do it but um

[01:06:48] But yeah, and

[01:06:50] It's something that I truly truly love doing but as I'm sure you would agree is sometimes it's just like

[01:06:56] I don't know why I do this it has to be because I love it. Yeah, that

[01:07:02] For sure yeah, yeah, I see a well there's a lot of writing memes that kind of speak today

[01:07:07] Why do we put ourselves through this because

[01:07:10] We love it and there's something about writing that if you have that inside of you

[01:07:17] It's in you ignore it. You're not gonna be very happy, you know and painter than you know singers like it's the same I imagine

[01:07:26] And yeah, there are times where I okay, I might be one a clock in the morning and I'm writing

[01:07:31] But it also I'm just exhausted and I go to bed at eight o'clock and then I'm like well

[01:07:35] I haven't worked on my book in a week, but you know

[01:07:37] I have to I've gotta do my yoga and go to the gym and because you know can't fill from an empty cup and all that that is there

[01:07:43] It's like this

[01:07:46] Well, yeah, and I definitely I can't remember who said I don't know if I'm quoting correctly, but something some someone

[01:07:51] Where much smarter than me? Oh, sometimes said along the lines of the greatest tragedy is what has left unfinished

[01:07:58] Yes, yep, so that

[01:08:01] Polls to anyone who has any a creative bone in their body

[01:08:07] Really quick

[01:08:08] Yeah, so anything else about the book you would like to let people in on because like I said

[01:08:14] First link in the description is your Amazon link to purchase your own paperback copy

[01:08:19] By it today because I'm telling you this will be

[01:08:22] These Amazon versions will become a rare

[01:08:25] commodity I predict I mean, I don't know others. I think we've covered, you know

[01:08:33] The writing process is so

[01:08:36] Interesting and I looked back recently

[01:08:40] At some of my early notes and like

[01:08:43] So many things changed. Oh my gosh, you know from the characters and stuff

[01:08:48] So it's kind of hard to say like oh, what's one thing about the book? Like I don't know it was

[01:08:54] It was a labor of love to myself and I'm really excited to get the rest of it out and

[01:09:02] Yeah, I mean I have you know

[01:09:05] Have a website I have a newsletter so if anybody does read it in there they want to you know follow for the sequel and everything

[01:09:12] That you know it's definitely there

[01:09:15] But yeah, I'm just I'm excited to keep writing

[01:09:18] Is there something that

[01:09:21] When people are giving you feedback or what they think about the book is there's been something that surprised you that people

[01:09:26] Light or disliked because I'll give you an example where where my mind is so again podcasting

[01:09:33] Many months back. There's an out there's a podcast I do with a good friend of mine the average intelligence podcast

[01:09:38] It was actually the first one we did

[01:09:40] Very randomly my co-host got sick and again deadline

[01:09:45] So I'm like I have to do something

[01:09:47] What cool they're doing a new adaptation a new film adaptation of all quiet on the western front

[01:09:53] I happen to go see it in the theater because it was a next Netflix release

[01:09:57] But there was a limited theatrical run before it premier on Netflix

[01:10:00] So I'm this is perfect. I'll just get on here and it'll fill time didn't think anybody would watch it

[01:10:05] It's the second highest rated podcast we've ever done

[01:10:09] Wow, it was the first for a very long time and the whole time like I'm

[01:10:13] I'm rambling about a movie for like two hours

[01:10:18] I in people or the reason it was two hours. I thought it was gonna be like 45 minutes tops

[01:10:23] But people were watching live and we were having a conversation and I'm just flat

[01:10:28] I'm like this this is what you people like

[01:10:32] Yeah, yeah, I don't listen to a lot of podcasts, but when I do it's just it's people rambling about stuff that they enjoy and have in the conversations with each other and reading the comments and

[01:10:42] You know, I could I could ramble about this book and the process of it in my thought patterns like forever. You know, it's just

[01:10:52] I love it, but yeah, it's people your question

[01:10:57] I don't know I've gotten along the way

[01:10:59] I've had people surprise me with the something they'll say about a character or a plot point and I'm just like oh

[01:11:06] Well, I thought that was genius, but you you hated it or vice versa

[01:11:10] You know, or last somebody's about a character and and thinking like I just I have to change this and like know you have to keep it in so

[01:11:18] you know

[01:11:20] But I can't think of a particular thing off-hand

[01:11:24] I was I will I always love hearing those things

[01:11:27] This is it's always as a person who created the thing you're always just kind of like when that happens

[01:11:32] You're like really this thing. I thought this was garbage

[01:11:35] That's your favorite part really

[01:11:38] The throwaway line which actually one of my favorites and this surprises me because I was much more into the magical elements of it not so

[01:11:45] I mean, I was into the person interpersonal relationships

[01:11:49] the

[01:11:50] Was it like literal knife twist at the end? No, we'll not literal, but the literary knife twist at the end what happens with Tori and her sister

[01:11:59] Yeah

[01:12:00] I that that through me for a loop. I absolutely loved it

[01:12:03] That was always gonna be there and

[01:12:06] Definitely has some ramifications for later books. Oh, I can imagine and I I love I love Tori's second response

[01:12:19] I don't remember what it is off-hand, but that that seemed to have been written a whole bunch

[01:12:24] So I don't remember actually all paying what her exact responses were that stuck, but

[01:12:29] She she tells them where they can put it. Okay, that's kind of what I thought of what yeah, yeah, yeah

[01:12:36] She reacted several different ways to that until I think it was really the last reaction

[01:12:41] I shouldn't even say the second because I think they were maybe three but the last reaction I was like

[01:12:48] You tell them um what we can wrap it up here, but I'm gonna throw another curveball your way and ask you

[01:12:55] What is the best book in your opinion that's ever been written oh my gosh

[01:13:03] You should have prepared me for that one. I know that's why it's curveball

[01:13:07] um

[01:13:11] Ever been written oh I don't I have and know full well that the internet will tell you you're wrong anyway, so I know I know

[01:13:20] I I don't even know

[01:13:24] I'm trying to rack my brain for like a classic

[01:13:27] Okay, I will so it's probably not the best book ever written but a book that has stuck with me for my entire life

[01:13:35] What Charlotte's one?

[01:13:38] Not what I was expecting. All right, I don't I don't disagree

[01:13:43] I mean I could have a million answers to that but that's the first one that came out like I remember Jane air

[01:13:49] Was one of my favorites. I I've struggled so many times at an adult to read it

[01:13:53] The wording is different you know, but um I've never read Pride and Pregidas because I just I just can't

[01:14:00] I've tried so many times Pride, Pregidas and zombies. I got through but

[01:14:06] You know and Jane air is very toxic now that you think about it as an adult but

[01:14:11] You know so there's all these ones that I've I've read at different times and just I was trying to think of classics

[01:14:15] But yeah Charlotte's web. I mean that just stuck with me so I don't know good book. It's a really good book

[01:14:22] Yeah, I think I might get passed over because it's technically children's literature

[01:14:26] Technically but there's a lot of children's stories that are fantastic the hobbit comes to mind

[01:14:31] Yeah, what's how would you answer that question? Oh I can't

[01:14:35] It's impossible. I know but I'm not the author

[01:14:40] That makes it even harder I am I have been on this kick lately of

[01:14:46] What would you call it like

[01:14:49] contemporary romance with a slight fantasy twist so not the like

[01:14:54] The like Sarah J. Moss kind of you know romance, but so these like little tiny where they're almost non-fansy

[01:15:01] But then there's like a time loop or there's like an alternate reality that's just kind of thrown in

[01:15:06] So I've been on these kicks and so I've been like the most recent I read this spell's love by Kate Rob

[01:15:13] Amazing and

[01:15:15] And then the one I have here next to me is the deja glitch by Holly James

[01:15:20] How it in a holiday? I don't remember who wrote that one is another one that I love but so I'm just on these like I go in these spurts

[01:15:26] So it kind of depends when you ask me like what I'm reading as to how I'm gonna answer that so

[01:15:31] I will kind of answer it in the sense that this is probably the first book that I was obsessed with and it's because

[01:15:38] Much like with Charlotte's web. It's technically a children's or young adult novel

[01:15:43] But this guy right here

[01:15:45] The Andalite Chronicles so for those of you who aren't aware this is this is one of the anthology book or not the anthology book

[01:15:52] I'm sorry. This is one of the prequel books in the animor of series

[01:15:54] It's very much a young adult novel

[01:15:57] This book right here seems like a fun sci-fi romp all in one book

[01:16:03] The main character deals with

[01:16:06] Hard like hardcore PTSD war crimes

[01:16:09] An attempted gen a reference to a genocide and another attempted genocide

[01:16:14] S. B. Anage and it is like the way it's written is very much young adult but the subject matter is very very heavy

[01:16:22] That sounds pretty heavy. It's very good

[01:16:26] And it even I mean it deals with you know prejudice obviously there's a lot in this admittedly to short of a book

[01:16:34] For what it is, but I mean it's it's a doozy and then the

[01:16:38] Prequel to this

[01:16:39] deals with that actual genocide. I remember when I read that one I was like

[01:16:45] This is for 10 year olds

[01:16:49] That's crazy there's a literal they use the word genocide in it

[01:16:54] And it's like

[01:16:59] Oh my gosh you when you held that book up for whatever reason I thought of the hitchhikers guy

[01:17:05] Do the galaxy trilogy that's actually well like five books or whatever, which I just is the best thing ever

[01:17:11] And you said it's too short you're that you reference that but gets too short and I was like oh this trilogy

[01:17:15] That's five books so that is another it's a series

[01:17:18] But that's an all-time favorite of mine as well. I love jokes like that have you seen the movie turning red?

[01:17:24] Yes, it's my favorite my favorite joke in that movie and I got it instantly and I literally had to pause the movie because I found it so hilariously funny

[01:17:35] The boy band in that movie is four town. There's five of them

[01:17:42] I loved that and I point that out to people like I didn't even notice and I'm like

[01:17:46] Ah, but technically they're not lying because two of them are twins

[01:17:51] Are they identical twins?

[01:17:53] If I remember correctly yes, I mean they so yeah, okay, I mean if they like have the same DNA

[01:18:00] The joke the joke is solid on its own. I just remember watching it and I was watching

[01:18:04] I was watching with somebody else I'm a gleam it. I got all my god their five all on that's a link

[01:18:09] I pointed that out too, yeah

[01:18:12] Favorite joke in the whole movie

[01:18:15] But yes so

[01:18:17] Thank you very much for coming on the podcast. It was a pleasure

[01:18:21] And if you'd ever like to appear on any of the other podcasts on the network you just let me know and we'll make it happen

[01:18:26] And everybody

[01:18:28] But first link in the description like I said get your copy of revival book one in the unveiled series and keep an eye out for book two

[01:18:35] The second link is Debbie's website so like she said you can keep an eye out and get notified

[01:18:41] Follow her on pretty much every social media platform correct Debbie Lynn writes. Yeah

[01:18:45] Not great about keeping up with them. I kind of go and spurts with that but yeah, there's throughout there

[01:18:50] Debbie Lynn writes on the the big ones and not not ex or whatever now, but the other ones it's still Twitter

[01:18:57] It's still Twitter

[01:18:59] Yeah, I actually and I I don't like Twitter is a platform either. I don't use it. I don't it's it's it's a bad place

[01:19:07] I don't I don't like the I don't like the Twitter vibe so I get it I get it

[01:19:14] And

[01:19:16] Thank you all for watching the RTA podcast as always please like share and subscribe follow the rest of the podcasts on the RTA podcast pantheon

[01:19:24] Third or fourth link in the description is our website where you can see listen to all the podcast and one central location

[01:19:30] See all the links where you can listen and or watch and

[01:19:33] We will see you guys next month Debbie. Thank you again. It was it was awesome. I had a lot of fun with this one. Okay

[01:19:39] Me too. Thank you very much and everyone by the unveiled

[01:19:44] Book one and keep an eye out for book two