Arete Podcast #22: Judaism with Rabbi Dovid Grossbaum

[00:00:00] This podcast is brought to you by Stevie Wicks and by the Goosebumps Crew Podcast.

[00:00:40] Welcome everyone to this edition, the very special edition of the Arete Podcast. As always,

[00:00:45] I am your host, Jake, and I'm joined today by Rabbi Dovid Grossbaum. Did I get that right?

[00:00:51] You nailed it. I'm sorry. I want to pronounce it completely.

[00:00:54] According to Jewish law, you're now technically Jewish for that pronunciation. So congratulations.

[00:00:58] No, I'm kidding. I'm absolutely joking.

[00:01:01] Oh, I know. I figured it was a joke. I was like, does that make me a mensure? There's more to it, right?

[00:01:06] So anyway, Dovid, as I said, is a Rabbi. You're a Chabad Rabbi, right? I'm pronouncing that right

[00:01:13] as well. You're in the Indianapolis area. You're part of the Young Jewish Professionals of Indianapolis,

[00:01:20] Indianapolis, not Lish. And it said in your bio, the Hebrew School for the Arts, do you teach there

[00:01:27] or what's your affiliation? Well, it's really my wife's. The Hebrew School for the Arts is my

[00:01:31] wife's baby. I'm a hired hand for all intents and purposes, but she's great. Yeah. She started

[00:01:36] a Hebrew school from scratch and it's maybe the biggest in the city now. Just super positive energy.

[00:01:43] Lots of like, you know, most people will give their reviews of their own Hebrew school experience as

[00:01:48] super negative and probably will kind of ship them away from the synagogue. With her Hebrew school,

[00:01:55] kids are excited. You know, they're running in, there's crafts, there's fun. We aren't too stuffy,

[00:02:00] obviously still delivering like the rigorous Judaism, but in a more approachable way. So yeah,

[00:02:06] she's doing great. Yeah. So just to broaden that for those who may not know. So Hebrew school,

[00:02:10] it's my understanding is essentially, it's not, it's not like, I mean, I know, I know that there are

[00:02:16] Jewish day school, Jewish day schools, but Hebrew school is essentially just, I guess the Christian

[00:02:22] equivalent would be like an intense Bible study, Bible school. Well, I wouldn't use the adjective

[00:02:28] intense, but it's pretty much for any Jewish child in the city that isn't going to a full-time Jewish

[00:02:36] school, but their parents or they want some Jewish education. So they just come by the synagogue once a

[00:02:43] week for two hours and they kind of experience it at different levels. They learn the language Hebrew,

[00:02:47] but they also learn about the Jewish holidays and Jewish customs and Jewish history. We make like

[00:02:52] Judaic related crafts, you know, sing songs. It's all packed into two hours, but you know,

[00:02:58] it isn't a replacement for a Jewish day school, but it's the next best thing if you're going to

[00:03:04] a public or a non-Jewish private school. Gotcha. And you are also the host of the,

[00:03:09] is it the Zal podcast? Yes, sir. The Zal podcast. If I hijack the hosting,

[00:03:14] you know why it's just the, it's just the reaction. Yeah. We tend to find each other.

[00:03:21] It's really, uh, there's another podcast host on our network, Justin Spur, and we have dubbed

[00:03:27] ourselves the problem because if we're ever both, if we're ever both guests on a podcast, we,

[00:03:32] we unintentionally hijack it and go for way too long. It's become a bit of a running gag. Um,

[00:03:39] you know, those standup comics, they have like wrap it up, red light come up when they're going

[00:03:44] on too long and they're not funny. You could just get one of those. Yeah, we break them. We'd break it.

[00:03:49] Um, want to do a quick shout out to habad.org that actually connected both of us, uh,

[00:03:54] found them randomly. They were very helpful for another business venture. We did cause we were,

[00:03:59] um, making, I wanted to, you know, make Hanukkah candles. We have a candle company

[00:04:04] and we do Christmas candles every year. And I said, we really should do Hanukkah candles,

[00:04:07] but I want to make sure there aren't any, you know, things that we can't use in there.

[00:04:11] And habad not only got back really quickly, they were very helpful. So when I was looking for

[00:04:16] a rabbi to speak to, I was like, I I'll ask the bod, they'll have me an answer in a day.

[00:04:20] And sure enough, what's, uh, what's the candle company? Uh, Stevie wicks, uh, all natural soy

[00:04:27] wax candles. They're probably going to be the sponsor of this podcast and we are going to have the

[00:04:32] Hanukkah candles out this year. So after we wrap this up, uh, give me your contact information.

[00:04:37] I'll send you the set. Oh, score. Nice. That's great. Where do you guys produce?

[00:04:42] Uh, all handmade. So here in Indianapolis. That's very cool. Yeah. Congratulations on that. That sounds

[00:04:49] cool. We're growing. We're hoping, uh, every holiday we do a special one of candles. So we're very

[00:04:55] excited. It's working out great for us this year because it, again, if the information I looked up is

[00:04:59] accurate, Hanukkah begins on the 26th this year. I think the 25th at night. Oh, you're right. You're

[00:05:05] right. It is the 25th. Yeah. So perfect timing for us anyway. Right. Exact overlap. I know we're

[00:05:13] trying to throw all these Hanukkah events and the exact overlap with Christmas is not throwing a wrench,

[00:05:18] but it's just kind of like mixing it up. Are our people in town? Are they not in town? Can we do the

[00:05:23] regular parties or do we have to adopt new ones? Uh, we're still kind of figuring it out.

[00:05:27] Well, that's, that's an interesting, uh, segue into something I didn't even think about until just

[00:05:32] now. But so some people who are listening to this may not know that Hanukkah follows the lunar

[00:05:37] calendar. So they're like, wait a minute, what are they talking about? Is it Hanukkah at the same

[00:05:40] time? And another, another really bad segue, but it's one of my favorite jokes ever. Many,

[00:05:46] many years ago, Stephen Colbert, uh, did a Christmas special. And one of the bits was, uh,

[00:05:52] Jon Stewart came by and they sang a song about Hanukkah. Cause Stephen,

[00:05:56] the premise is Stephen Colbert's lost his, you know, zest for Christmas. And, um, Jon tries to,

[00:06:02] he's like, the song is actually called, can I interest you on Hanukkah? And then, you know,

[00:06:06] it's quite funny, but one of the bits is Stephen goes, when is it? And then Jon goes on the 25th

[00:06:12] of December. He's left. He's like, which is when exactly? And he just goes,

[00:06:18] I'll check. It's a wonderful little bit. Oh, I need you to come onto my podcast because you're

[00:06:26] so great at catching the areas that I have like nomenclature for, you know what I mean? It's just

[00:06:32] like referring to Jewish stuff that I expect the audience to know. And you're like, wait a second.

[00:06:35] I don't think people realize that there's a lunar calendar as opposed to a solar calendar.

[00:06:39] So, uh, great. Yeah.

[00:06:40] Yeah. So, so explain to them like, and Kislev is a, I, the way I understand it, it's a month.

[00:06:47] And is there a Jewish calendar or?

[00:06:49] Yeah, totally. There's, there's 12 months in the Jewish calendar. You probably would be better off

[00:06:54] with like a blackboard or something, but in short, each Jewish month has between 29 and 30 days,

[00:06:59] as opposed to like the 30 or the 31. So the, and we go by the moon and not the sun. So the Jewish

[00:07:06] days begin the night before. Um, and that's why Hanukkah starts the night of December 25.

[00:07:12] Well, that's why I thought it was because now we're going to, we're going to do a deep dive into

[00:07:16] Hanukkah unintentionally, but I thought it started at night because of, uh, it commemorates the,

[00:07:22] the Maccabee rebellion. And it was when they locked themselves in the temple. Correct.

[00:07:26] I'm remembering this correctly.

[00:07:28] I think they reconquered it.

[00:07:29] Yeah, yeah, yeah. But they, they, they stayed there. They were held up in the temple and they

[00:07:33] only had enough oil for, for one night or, and it lasted for eight.

[00:07:39] Right. No. So every Jewish holiday begins the night before.

[00:07:42] Oh, okay.

[00:07:43] And Shabbat, like I don't do any work on Saturday, but the Saturday for me starts Friday night at

[00:07:48] Sunday.

[00:07:49] That's, that's funny. You mentioned that. Cause I realized I was like, I was very excited for this

[00:07:54] interview. And when I got your email, I was like, great. Not realizing that we emailed

[00:07:59] on a Friday. And then, cause you were very quick to respond. And then I was like, I responded

[00:08:04] again. And then I got home and I'm like, why isn't it responded yet? I'm like, Oh, I hope he agrees to

[00:08:08] come blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, Oh, it's Shabbat.

[00:08:10] Yep. And that would be why.

[00:08:12] Yeah. That would be why.

[00:08:13] Well, while we're here and we're educating the people that want to know more about Judaism,

[00:08:17] what is Shabbat?

[00:08:19] All right. So, um, one of the 10 commandments, uh, is to keep the Shabbat. And, um, I think

[00:08:27] Christians observe the Shabbat for them is on Sunday, but for us, it's kind of more originalist

[00:08:31] on, on Saturday and it means rest. Now, you know, in the, in the pro, in the active sense,

[00:08:39] resting means gathering with your family, you know, having good food, good meals, attending

[00:08:44] synagogue, uh, taking naps, but there's also, and you're resting for the most part is also

[00:08:50] what you refrain from and refraining from work is the, is the major key. Now, what is defined

[00:08:57] as work, um, involves depth, you know, uh, but in short, the creation of anything new

[00:09:05] would be rendered work. If I'm creating anything new, um, that would be considered work, which

[00:09:10] is forbidden on Shabbat. So for example, um, even flicking a light switch or turning on

[00:09:15] a TV, I won't be able to do on Shabbat because that's creating a circuit or whatever. But, um,

[00:09:21] if the light switch is on before Shabbat and I didn't have to create that light, I can enjoy

[00:09:26] the light if it's already on from before Shabbat or if it's on an automatic timer or whatever.

[00:09:30] Um, so anything that isn't involving the creation of something would be, uh, considered resting

[00:09:36] and you try to increase the resting as much as possible. I know I'm super grateful for Shabbat,

[00:09:40] um, because I'm addicted to, uh, work and my phone and laptops. And it's really just like a hard

[00:09:46] cutoff where, um, uh, you know, just spending a lot of time with my children, uh, praying more

[00:09:52] than I would, um, just community and, uh, you know, like organized meals instead of just like

[00:09:58] grabbing a bag of chips. It's just all really, really great. Um, I feel like Jews throughout

[00:10:02] history were grateful for Shabbat, but in modern times it just is become so much more vivid.

[00:10:07] Yeah. It's interesting because I, I, I enjoy, uh, Ben Shapiro's program and he says that repeatedly.

[00:10:13] He's like, I'm very thankful for Shabbat because it, it, he's like, in a way it forces me,

[00:10:18] but I'm grateful for it too. I have to turn all this off so I can imagine. And for those of you

[00:10:22] listening that, um, cause you mentioned that technically speaking, Christians have a Shabbat

[00:10:28] better known as the Sabbath to the, the, the Christian community. Um, not quite as rigid,

[00:10:34] although there are some sects of Christianity that are a little bit more, I don't want to say

[00:10:39] see it cause I don't want to give it a negative connotation because I'll be honest. It sounds really

[00:10:43] good. Um, for the, for the mind, the soul, all that, uh, being able to take a day or yeah,

[00:10:50] cause it's a 24 hour cycle, right? It's a sundown on Friday to Saturday. Yeah. It ends up being 25

[00:10:55] hours, 25. Okay. Cause we're erring on the side of caution of when that day changes. So like the

[00:11:01] beginning of sundown on Friday and the end of sundown on Saturday. Gotcha. Okay. So that, that makes

[00:11:06] perfect sense, but yeah, so the Christian listeners may better understand that concept as the

[00:11:11] Sabbath. And that's interesting that you said it's, um, it's about not creating something new.

[00:11:16] And if, again, if I was raised a Christian, so my understanding of the Bible is from the Christian

[00:11:21] perspective, but as we know, the old Testament, at least the majority of it, you might be able to

[00:11:26] educate me more on that. The majority of the old Testament are Jewish texts. I think all of it.

[00:11:31] Yeah. I think all of it is, but as far as, cause I know like the Torah is the first five books of

[00:11:35] the Christian Bible, if I'm not mistaken. And then you have the, um, the prophets and the writings.

[00:11:41] Correct. Yes. Well, of course you're correct. You're a rabbi. I mean, I mean like I'm thinking

[00:11:48] correctly. Okay. But yeah, so our understanding is a little bit different, but yeah. So it's, uh,

[00:11:53] it's amazing to me that there's that commonality, um, in the, at least the origins of the faith. And yet

[00:11:58] it seems that there are times when the Jewish and Christian communities, for whatever reason,

[00:12:03] just, it seems like they should be a little bit closer knit, at least to me.

[00:12:08] Yeah. I hear you. I'd have to think about it. I think in like the classic political parlance,

[00:12:13] everyone's talking about like Judeo-Christian values or whatnot. So in that sense, they're linked

[00:12:18] a lot. Um, and I'm not doubting that there's like a link between them and the Judeo-Christian values,

[00:12:23] but I feel like it just became like a buzzword where people don't really like reflect on what

[00:12:26] it means. So it is interesting that you make that, it is interesting that you make that point. I'm not,

[00:12:31] I'm not a hundred percent sure. It probably depends with regards to what we're speaking of.

[00:12:35] And also I should be clear. Um, I'm describing Shabbat, how it's in the text, people fall short

[00:12:42] of that observance, you know, because there's, there's, there's like infinite observance levels

[00:12:47] within the Jewish community. Like I, for example, uh, I could tell you that in the Torah,

[00:12:51] it says you shouldn't gossip, right? But I succumb to that sin all the time. Right. You know, so as a

[00:12:58] rabbi, it's mostly my job to tell you what you should be striving for the ideals, but not to judge

[00:13:04] you in the areas that you fall short. Well, speaking from experience, there are certain members of the

[00:13:09] Christian community that should probably take that sentiment to note, uh, to heart. Um, but obviously

[00:13:15] since we're on the topic, I can think of no better source than to get just the, the, the briefest

[00:13:20] synopsis of Judaism, not only as a religion, because Judaism is a bit of a, an interesting

[00:13:26] one because it's not just a religion. It's not just a group of people. It's kind of both.

[00:13:32] It's both. It's kind of both. And yet it's also kind of separated. So if you would indulge me, um,

[00:13:39] from a rabbi's perspective, what is kind of just like a nice little synopsis of Judaism as a faith?

[00:13:49] There's, there's, there are so many different avenues to take, but I guess what's coming to me

[00:13:54] right now is in Jewish philosophy, the purpose of the creation of the world in, from God's perspective,

[00:14:01] like why did God start this whole shebang was to, uh, elevate the mundane was to elevate the mundane.

[00:14:10] So if God would not have created the physical realm, right. And it just was, you know,

[00:14:16] satisfied with spiritual realms and whatever angels, however they look probably not in the

[00:14:22] literal sense or all the spiritual stuff, she would not have been fulfilled. The concept of creating

[00:14:27] this world was here's a world where there's physicality and there is difficulty and life is

[00:14:33] hard and, uh, there's temptations and all these things. Um, and humanity still manages to do what's

[00:14:41] right. You know, act ethically, act spiritually, try to connect to God, all those things.

[00:14:46] That is a true accomplishment for an angel to act. Correct. Isn't a big deal, right? They're almost

[00:14:51] robotic for a human who's, you know, going has four crying babies at home or is struggling with the bills

[00:14:57] or depressed or, you know, all this stuff that life throws at you and still manages to be a good

[00:15:02] person and kind of be a light to their little circle. That's the purpose for the creation.

[00:15:08] And in Kabbalistic terminology, it's, um, a Dira B'tachtonim. God wanted a dwelling place,

[00:15:14] like a spiritual, ethical, beautiful dwelling place, but specifically in the lowest of realms.

[00:15:20] That's the purpose of creation. Um, and pretty much all religions in our book, um, but for sure

[00:15:27] all good people, um, should be pursuing that broadly, right? Jews pursue it in our own way.

[00:15:34] And, uh, you, you don't have to become Jewish to join that mission. Uh, Jews don't proselytize.

[00:15:40] We believe that you could be an ethical and great person in the eyes of God. Um, but you do have the

[00:15:45] mission as a human being for making the world a better place. And that's the purpose. And that's

[00:15:48] what we're, we're striving toward. And I think even though the daily news may be pulling us down

[00:15:54] and getting us depressed about the nature of the world, but I think if you zoom out far enough,

[00:15:57] uh, we are making headway as a, as a humanity as a whole.

[00:16:01] I would, I would agree with that sentiment. Yeah. Overall, the, the 24 hour news cycle,

[00:16:05] which is why I disconnected from it, at least to the degree that I had been consuming it

[00:16:10] many, many years ago. And I'll say it, I'm happy. And as somebody who talks a lot on the internet

[00:16:16] these days, um, I sort of consume news media as a bit of a necessity, just so I kind of sort of know

[00:16:22] what I'm talking about at the very least, which is why thankfully I know very well that I do not

[00:16:28] have the appropriate level of time to be perceived as an expert when I'm talking about things, but I

[00:16:32] like to be reasonably informed. Um, but getting away from the 24 hour news cycle is very helpful

[00:16:38] with one's mental health. Um, but you just, you mentioned, uh, converting to Judaism. So you said

[00:16:45] it's not required, but is it possible for someone to convert to the Jewish faith?

[00:16:50] It is possible, but again, Jews don't seek converts. If a convert approaches me as a rabbi,

[00:16:57] according to the Talmud, you're supposed to turn them away three times in order. In other words,

[00:17:01] you're trying to vet that the person a is doing it for the right reasons, but B knows that it's

[00:17:07] going to be difficult, knows that it's going to be difficult. And I think I can't speak for all

[00:17:12] religions, but as far as I know, Judaism is the one that says you can be totally perfect in the eyes

[00:17:18] of God without being Jewish. Um, I can't think of another, but right. And I think Christianity and

[00:17:27] Islam are, those are the major ones, at least in America. Um, you have to accept Jesus or accept

[00:17:33] Mohammed in order to be quote saved in Judaism. You don't need that. If you're an ethical person,

[00:17:38] especially if you're spiritually inclined, it doesn't matter at all if you're Jewish or not.

[00:17:42] So would, is, is the, is the technical term still Gentile?

[00:17:49] Yeah. I mean, people use Gentile all the time for sure. Yeah.

[00:17:51] Yeah. I don't know if there's another, another term that's used more in the modern,

[00:17:55] modern day. Um, are someone of someone who's not Jewish, are they, are they welcome to,

[00:18:02] you know, go to a synagogue just to learn, see, ask questions, that kind of stuff?

[00:18:08] Absolutely. Yeah, for sure. For sure. And whenever I engage in these types of conversations,

[00:18:13] man, this one's a little bit more podcasty, but if someone gets super theological with me and they'll

[00:18:17] call me over and say, rabbi, I want to grab a cup of coffee, you know, and I discuss my life with you.

[00:18:22] Um, I'll make it very clear at the outset that my goal is not to convert them. Cause I think that's

[00:18:27] like some rumbling in the back of someone's mind, whenever they're meeting with clergy that,

[00:18:32] you know, there's just the expectation that like, Oh, when are you going to join? When are you

[00:18:35] going to join? And for me, it's, it's, it's almost the exact opposite. I think like I've been in,

[00:18:41] I've been a rabbi, like an active rabbi for five years. I was kind of an assistant rabbi in

[00:18:45] Manhattan before I moved to Indy. So that would be 10 years. And then my dad's been at this for 45

[00:18:50] years. I think, I don't know the hard stats, but of all the people that approached us expressing

[00:18:56] interest in converting, I would have to say under, under two or under 3% go through with a conversion.

[00:19:03] Like it's tiny. Like once it becomes clear, a, that you could be totally kosher in the eyes of

[00:19:10] God, uh, without converting and B just how difficult it is to convert those two factors

[00:19:16] makes it that 97 or 98% of the people that approach us do not convert. And that is,

[00:19:21] that's totally fine. As long as they're leading a happy, you know, fulfilling lives and making the

[00:19:26] world a better place. Like I said,

[00:19:29] does that have anything to do with, because Judaism is a very, very old religion. Um,

[00:19:34] does that have anything to do with, and, and forgive me if this comes across the wrong way,

[00:19:39] but what's the word I'm looking for? Judaism is such an ancient religion. I don't want to say

[00:19:45] tribal. Um, what would I think a regional, it's more of a regional faith, like that belongs to a group

[00:19:51] of people or, you know, maybe if you would, if you would rewind 3000 years, you get that sense where

[00:19:59] it's very regional. Uh, in other words, when the, I mean, obviously not anymore. Cause the diaspora

[00:20:03] is huge. I'm talking about the origin of it. But the diaspora started, you know, probably even before

[00:20:09] the destruction of the temple temple, second temple, but for sure by then. So we're talking 2000 years.

[00:20:15] So it's very hard to say, in other words, I have people that I consider completely Jewish

[00:20:19] that are from, you know, uh, Africa or, um, Syria or, uh, Iraq, or, um, my family's from Eastern

[00:20:28] Europe. And then we have Jews from Western Europe and there's all over the world. Um, so it's, it's,

[00:20:35] it's so faith-based it's so, it's so like thought-based opinion-based how you act based that I don't even

[00:20:43] associate it so much with regions or tribes in the normative sense. People use tribes.

[00:20:49] Right. I should have, yeah, I should have clarified my statement.

[00:20:52] I'm not offended by what you asked at all.

[00:20:54] Oh no, I'm a stickler for accuracy. I should have referring to the beginnings of it, um, of it all.

[00:21:01] I think it's just that, you know, I don't think that's the reason why we're slow to accept converts.

[00:21:06] There's probably a number of reasons depending on which era in history, at some eras in histories,

[00:21:10] a lot of people were converting for the wrong reasons. So there's that.

[00:21:13] Yeah.

[00:21:13] You know, like even nowadays I'll meet someone say like all Jews are rich. So I want to convert.

[00:21:18] Oh, I was gonna, I was gonna, I was gonna say, wait, there are, there are periods in history

[00:21:22] where people were like, they were, there were like mass people trying to convert to Judaism.

[00:21:27] Definitely. Like I can't fill in there. There for sure were mass conversions at different parts

[00:21:32] of history, but I guess it just comes with like perception. Like if the Jews are perceived as like

[00:21:38] cool or powerful or, or rich or whatever, that would be a motivation to convert for the

[00:21:43] wrong reasons. So they're trying to preclude those things. But I think it's actually much deeper than

[00:21:46] a technical historical reason. I think it's just that Judaism thoroughly believes that Judaism makes

[00:21:52] sense for a Jew, but it just doesn't, it's just not needed. It's just not needed for someone that's

[00:22:00] not Jewish. In other words, if we felt that you were lacking at all spiritually or ethically without

[00:22:03] being Jewish, then we would say, yeah, you have to convert in order to make it, but we don't feel

[00:22:07] that way. So at that point, it's just why you could be, you know, completely whole. You could

[00:22:13] be completely one with God and be fulfilling your destiny and your mission on earth without doing

[00:22:19] it. So then it just comes down to like, this isn't needed. Gotcha. So that, that does lead me

[00:22:24] into another question that I had though, because this is something that very much preoccupies the Christian

[00:22:29] faith. Um, what happens when we die? So in the Jewish ethic that you're talking about, you're

[00:22:35] saying you can be 100% whole spiritually and not be, you know, religiously Jewish. So in terms of

[00:22:42] the afterlife and, and, or I put, and, or hell on my sort of outline here of questions to ask,

[00:22:47] I mean, does Judaism have an afterlife or a concept of a hell or both?

[00:22:53] Um, the answer is yes, but not, um, not how you see it in Hollywood. Let's put it that way.

[00:23:01] In other words, if you could describe it with any corporeal expression, if there's any physical

[00:23:05] description to hell or heaven, then you know that that's not the Jewish hell or heaven, right? It's a

[00:23:10] completely spiritual thing that we wouldn't be able to fathom, but I just wanted to go back for a

[00:23:13] second. When I was talking about like spiritually good with God, that wasn't for the afterlife. In other

[00:23:20] words, very central facet of Jewish belief is that everything that you do in this world is for this

[00:23:25] world. Like I said, the purpose of creation was to elevate the world, not to enjoy lollipops in

[00:23:31] heaven or in lightning and hell or whatever else, you know, even though we don't believe in lollipops

[00:23:35] or lightning, like I said, those are physical descriptions, but, um, the motivation for doing

[00:23:41] good is because it's good. And the motivation to not do bad is because bad is bad. So, um,

[00:23:48] whether we believe in an afterlife or not is not, it's considered pathetic. Would it work as

[00:23:56] motivation? Maybe, probably, but it's considered pathetic Jewishly if, um, you fixate on the reward

[00:24:04] and punishment, reward and punishment generally, but especially reward and punishment in the afterlife.

[00:24:10] Okay. This, this has taken a turn a little bit. So it's just very interesting that you say that

[00:24:15] because personally, and I didn't see, I didn't know this about, I, I knew, or at least I had read

[00:24:21] that Judaism doesn't really have a concept of the afterlife insofar as like the Christian

[00:24:25] understanding of it would be, which, I mean, that's how I was raised. So obviously I have a base in that

[00:24:30] many, many years ago on sort of my spiritual, I guess you would call it a spiritual journey,

[00:24:36] still not done yet. But I came to a point where I really became less interested in whether or not

[00:24:43] God existed or didn't exist insofar as like, as far as ethics are concerned, it's at least for me,

[00:24:51] it's very much irrelevant because it's just like you said, doing good is good for the sake of doing

[00:24:57] good. And any other external motivation kind of, at least in my mind, clouds the ethical integrity

[00:25:05] of doing good, because it's like, if you're doing good works, but you're doing it for some sort of

[00:25:08] reward, at least to me, I mean, it's great, you know, good deeds are good deeds, but motivations

[00:25:14] can kind of blur that a little bit. So it's very interesting that, because you said basically almost

[00:25:21] word for word, what I believe about, you know, behaving ethically as a human being. And I find

[00:25:26] that very interesting considering. I guess where God comes into that equation for me is that it's just

[00:25:32] the ultimate, like absolutist anchor. In other words, defining the good and defining the evil.

[00:25:38] I guess for like between an ethical atheist and an ethical monotheist, there's probably like 99%

[00:25:45] of agreement mostly on what's considered ethical. It's just for that 1% of like, okay, what is good and

[00:25:51] what is bad? For me, that's where God comes in. It's like the definition of which good to pursue

[00:25:59] and which evil to refrain from. You made so many points that I wanted to go back to, but I can't

[00:26:04] even recall. So yeah, I guess we'll just keep it.

[00:26:06] I know. And I probably, that's, that's sort of my, my, my curse.

[00:26:10] No, no, no. It's just the nature of a conversation. There's nothing wrong with you.

[00:26:12] Yeah. Yeah. And that's, that's, that's why I don't put a time limit on this. Cause if we want to go,

[00:26:17] we can go for as long as we want or need to, but I just, I found that so interesting because that

[00:26:21] speaks to me on a personal level. That sort of not necessarily ethical, but ethical motivation,

[00:26:26] I suppose speaks to me very much. But to go back to some more of the questions I had,

[00:26:32] we've already mentioned Chabad a couple of times. And first of all, should there be Phlegm in there?

[00:26:35] Or is it just Chabad or is that Chabad?

[00:26:40] You're not even joking with that question, are you?

[00:26:42] No, I'm not. I'm not at all.

[00:26:44] Oh my gosh. That is an amazing question. Oh my God. You don't need Phlegm either way. Oh my gosh.

[00:26:49] My, my co-host is going to absolutely love that question.

[00:26:52] Do I get bonus points for Phlegm though?

[00:26:55] The, the Phlegmometer? Did the Phlegmometer go off? Did you raise it on the Phlegmometer?

[00:27:00] So fun, fun fact. I don't know why. Sometimes I'll just pronounce a word and I can't stop the Phlegm.

[00:27:07] So like if, if it was supposed to be pronounced Chabad, not Chabad,

[00:27:12] I would actually have to consciously think about not putting the Phlegm in that word for some reason.

[00:27:16] So that's why I ask.

[00:27:19] No, it doesn't matter either way. Chabad, I guess. I don't know. Did I have Phlegm there? I'm not sure.

[00:27:24] A little bit.

[00:27:25] Chabad is a sect of Hasidism. So I guess take it all the way back. You'll cut me off if this gets dull.

[00:27:32] But pretty much around 300, 350 years ago, Judaism, especially in Europe was growing in, in the view of many dry and elitist and academic and, and very much like book smart.

[00:27:52] And then comes along a great rabbi known as the Baal Shem Tov who founded Hasidism and he didn't innovate anything new, but he re-emphasized certain portions of Judaism that he felt were neglected.

[00:28:10] So for example, the, the, the, the good deeds of a simple Jew, right?

[00:28:14] So most Jews at the time were illiterate or many were definitely were not learned, you know?

[00:28:18] So in the elitist scheme, the unlearned Jews were kind of low, you know, societally.

[00:28:26] So he re-emphasized the fact that if someone does good deeds, they should be respected and celebrated and all those things.

[00:28:35] He emphasized joy, which was a, obviously there's like biblical sources for the importance of joy and there's so many things about it, but he felt like just people weren't joyous.

[00:28:45] He was very into melodies.

[00:28:46] He, he, he taught a very deep level of divine providence, which is a conversation for itself, but like a really all encompassing divine providence.

[00:28:54] Um, he taught, which he felt was consistent with the, you know, the, the Jewish theology and a few other things.

[00:29:00] Um, and this is in Eastern Europe and it really, uh, caught fire.

[00:29:06] Um, and especially, especially among simple people or people that were seeking a little bit more like spiritual zest to their Judaism instead of just wrote, studying the text or wrote, fulfilling the deeds.

[00:29:18] They wanted to know the why they wanted to get deeper into it.

[00:29:20] They wanted to feel some spirituality in it.

[00:29:22] Um, so, so that was the founder of Hasidism.

[00:29:25] He was the Baal Shem Tov and he was kind of like the great, great grandfather of all of Hasidism.

[00:29:29] You'll see, uh, Hasidic Jews all over the world, but pretty much anywhere that there's a high concentration of Jews, there'll be a Hasidic community or multiple Hasidic communities.

[00:29:38] But since then there are many, many branches of Hasidism.

[00:29:41] And one of those branches that go all the way back at 300 years ago is the branch of Chabad.

[00:29:46] And Chabad, uh, emphasizes Chabad is actually an acronym for the three Kabbalistic levels of your intellect.

[00:29:55] Right?

[00:29:56] So the highest level of your intellect is wisdom, then understanding, and then knowledge.

[00:30:00] Or in Hebrew, Chachma, Bina, and Das.

[00:30:03] And, uh, you know, thousands of pages of Jewish theology, philosophy, mysticism are discussing which levels are what and how they interact with one another.

[00:30:10] It's all very interesting.

[00:30:11] But at face value, the point is, uh, Chabad introduced this intellectualizing Hasidism.

[00:30:18] So for a lot of people, Hasidism was just a lot of dancing, a lot of feeling, fervent, um, fervent prayer, community, like all those good things.

[00:30:28] Chabad said, yes, but let's understand all of that as deeply as we can and don't just keep it in the realm of mantras.

[00:30:36] So mantras could be super powerful for the people that like mantras and want to live their life by them.

[00:30:41] But Chabad says, yes, we believe in these mantras to be absolute truths, but let's pursue them in the realm of intellect as thoroughly as we would, let's say, you know, any other field.

[00:30:54] I love that.

[00:30:56] Self-professed nerd here.

[00:30:57] So I, I like any, anything I can dig deep into, which by the way, you'll never dull me.

[00:31:02] Um, you're talking to a guy who watched a six hour documentary about the history of the national parks.

[00:31:07] So you're not, you're not going to dull me.

[00:31:10] I love, I love history.

[00:31:12] I love especially obscure history that is like, first of all, most people don't even know this happened.

[00:31:18] And if they do, they just don't know that much about it.

[00:31:20] So that's, that's, that's incredible.

[00:31:22] I love that.

[00:31:24] Yeah.

[00:31:24] There are so many books I could recommend.

[00:31:26] And, you know, this is all just hardly even in a nutshell, you know,

[00:31:29] I was going to say, this is going to be a very surface level.

[00:31:32] This is going to be a very surface level conversation.

[00:31:34] So if you guys like it, let me know.

[00:31:36] And we can, uh, ask, uh, Rabbi Bobbitt back.

[00:31:42] Yeah.

[00:31:42] You said you weren't bored.

[00:31:44] I didn't think you were getting bored, but I was worried about your, my heart went out to your audience.

[00:31:47] That's where I'm not so certain about.

[00:31:49] Well, the wonderful thing about the internet, which is the greatest and the worst thing about it is if they,

[00:31:53] if they want to, they can click away, you know, we don't, we don't hide, we don't hide our motivations on this podcast.

[00:31:59] So anybody who's watching, they know what they're in for.

[00:32:02] And that's what all the subscribers know.

[00:32:04] And, um, we're growing.

[00:32:05] So apparently they like it.

[00:32:07] So good.

[00:32:08] Um, coming on.

[00:32:09] So, but that, that leads.

[00:32:10] So like you, you mentioned.

[00:32:14] Oh yeah.

[00:32:15] Hasidic.

[00:32:16] That's what you were talking about.

[00:32:17] Yeah.

[00:32:18] Hasidic.

[00:32:18] So I've also heard Ashkenazi.

[00:32:21] Um, what, like, what are some of the differences there?

[00:32:24] Is it a geographical thing or.

[00:32:26] Yeah, pretty much.

[00:32:27] Hasidic is generally in ideology and Ashkenazi is geographic for the last, for the first 300 years,

[00:32:35] roughly, or maybe 250 years of Hasidism.

[00:32:39] Everyone that was Hasidic happened to have been Ashkenazic.

[00:32:42] They were all living in Europe, European Jewry, generally speaking, unless you're talking about

[00:32:47] like South Eastern Europe, um, but generally speaking, European Jewry is known as Ashkenazi

[00:32:52] Jewry, right?

[00:32:53] Gotcha.

[00:32:54] So all Hasidim were living in Europe at the time, but, but in truth, it's an ideology.

[00:32:59] So since then, since many Jews have moved to Israel or America, which both have been

[00:33:04] melting pots for us, even Jewishly, um, many non-Ashkenazi Jews, Jews from North Africa

[00:33:11] or the Middle East or other parts of the world, um, have became, have become Hasidic.

[00:33:18] So they adopted, which was typically in Europe, but theoretically it's an ideology and an ideology

[00:33:23] doesn't know borders.

[00:33:24] And they kind of said like, oh, I kind of like, you know, this Hasidic discourse that discusses

[00:33:30] this super deep concept.

[00:33:32] I'm going to maybe live my life by these, uh, customs.

[00:33:36] So, so many non-Ashkenazi Jews later in the last, let's say 60 years, 70 years became Hasidic.

[00:33:45] Okay.

[00:33:45] Very interesting.

[00:33:47] Um, but speaking of, you know, that sort of historical culture, I I've seen a couple when

[00:33:51] I was, uh, reading some of the information about you just to get an idea of, you know,

[00:33:55] who you were.

[00:33:56] So it wasn't a completely blind interview.

[00:33:57] Um, I saw the word Yiddish kite come up a couple of times.

[00:34:01] Can you explain to me what that is?

[00:34:03] Yiddish kite in most usages of the word is just Judaism in Yiddish.

[00:34:10] I mean, Yiddish is a language and the word for Judaism is Yiddish kite.

[00:34:15] Uh, there are few people today that translate Yiddish kite differently than that.

[00:34:21] For them, it's like Yiddishist culture, which has had to do with like socialism.

[00:34:26] There was like a lot of vehement socialist, anti-religious Jews in the old country.

[00:34:31] They pretty much assimilated completely.

[00:34:35] So like their offspring in 95 plus percent of the cases are no longer Jewish.

[00:34:40] So their usages of the word Yiddish kite, um, it just aren't used anymore, you know?

[00:34:46] So Yiddish kite to mean Judaism is in most cases, what people mean nowadays when they were,

[00:34:51] when they use the word Yiddish kite.

[00:34:53] Yeah.

[00:34:53] And I'm, I'm given to understand, cause you mentioned, you brought up Yiddish being a language.

[00:34:57] Um, I I'm given to understand that etymologically its origins are a mixture of like Hebrew and old German.

[00:35:04] I'd say mostly old German.

[00:35:06] I think there's other Slavic languages mixed in as well.

[00:35:09] Um, and then some Hebrew I'm reading a, I finished a book of the history of Jews in Germany.

[00:35:16] And apparently it's, it's difficult.

[00:35:18] Apparently it's not just old German.

[00:35:20] According to the old Germans, they claim that we're just mispronouncing stuff.

[00:35:27] But then, but then if you do that long enough, it becomes a thing and then it's just a new religion.

[00:35:31] Yeah.

[00:35:31] And that's what happened.

[00:35:32] Yeah.

[00:35:33] That's, that's, yeah, that's essentially how a new language is made.

[00:35:35] You just mispronounce things long enough.

[00:35:37] Yeah.

[00:35:38] Um, so, okay.

[00:35:40] That's a illuminating, very illuminating.

[00:35:42] So a word that a lot of, you know, non-Jewish people might've heard, but probably have no idea

[00:35:48] what it means is mitzvah, probably in the context of a bar or bot mitzvah.

[00:35:52] Um, what is a mitzvah?

[00:35:55] So popularly a mitzvah, whenever someone uses it popularly, they mean a good deed.

[00:36:00] A mitzvah is a good deed.

[00:36:02] When a boy turns 13 or when a girl turns 12, Jewishly, they become adults enough to be

[00:36:08] responsible for their own actions.

[00:36:10] So a bar mitzvah or a bot mitzvah means now you're responsible to do the mitzvahs yourself,

[00:36:15] you know, do good deeds and don't do bad deeds.

[00:36:17] That's what it means, bar and bot mitzvah, literally.

[00:36:19] Um, but if, but the word mitzvah itself comes from the Hebrew word tzivoy.

[00:36:25] Which means commandment, which actually goes back to what we were saying before of like

[00:36:29] your definition of what's a good deed.

[00:36:32] If you're a Jewish person stems from what God commands you.

[00:36:36] Um, so what, what are, what are some examples of, I know it's, I know it seems kind of obvious,

[00:36:40] but like what, what, what would you say is like a good example of a mitzvah that you

[00:36:44] see quite commonly as a rabbi?

[00:36:46] Okay.

[00:36:46] So there's two categories of mitzvahs.

[00:36:48] There's mitzvahs between man and man, and there are mitzvahs between man and God.

[00:36:51] So the mitzvahs between man and man are pretty easy, you know, uh, help an old lady across

[00:36:55] the street, call your grandmother, give charity, you know, volunteer in a soup kitchen, help

[00:37:01] people that are destitute, give people that are in need of a job, a job, even if they're

[00:37:04] not so good at it and on and on and on, uh, host guests.

[00:37:08] Those are mitzvahs between man and man.

[00:37:10] And then there are mitzvahs between man and God.

[00:37:12] Some of those mitzvahs are applicable, even if you're a Gentile, like prayer, like prayer

[00:37:17] is a mitzvah, uh, between man and God, obviously.

[00:37:21] And that would be when you're in need to call out to God would be a mitzvah.

[00:37:24] That'd be a good deed.

[00:37:26] Um, then there are mitzvahs, most mitzvahs between man and God are unique to Jews that

[00:37:32] are practicing Judaism.

[00:37:33] So for example, um, a woman lighting Shabbat candles right before Shabbat, before the sun

[00:37:38] sets, before you can't do any work.

[00:37:40] Work that a woman, the last creation that a woman will create before the sun sets is lighting

[00:37:44] candles, um, in her home, usually over the Shabbat dinner table, right?

[00:37:48] That would be a mitzvah, uh, between man and God, or like, uh, celebrating Jewish holidays,

[00:37:54] right?

[00:37:54] Eating matzah on Passover.

[00:37:56] That'd be a mitzvah between man and God.

[00:37:58] And those, those are those categories.

[00:38:00] So generally speaking, one way of categorizing the mitzvahs are mitzvahs between man and

[00:38:05] man and man and God.

[00:38:06] Another way of categorizing mitzvahs, if you're curious, is that, uh, the mitzvahs that we

[00:38:11] understand completely, let's say, um, like giving charity or thou shall not kill.

[00:38:17] There's, there's negative mitzvahs too, right?

[00:38:19] Thou shall is a positive mitzvah and thou shall not is a negative mitzvah.

[00:38:23] So a negative mitzvah is thou shall not kill, thou shall not steal, et cetera.

[00:38:27] Then there are mitzvahs that we would not have come up with on our own had we been making

[00:38:32] our own religion, but once God commands us, they kind of make sense.

[00:38:36] So let's say for example, commemorating the holidays, right?

[00:38:39] So like we celebrate Passover because the Jews left Egypt, right?

[00:38:42] If I was starting totally from scratch, I wouldn't have Passover because there would

[00:38:46] be nothing to commemorate.

[00:38:47] But once you explain to me what I'm commemorating, I'll be like, oh, that, that makes sense.

[00:38:50] So that's the middle category.

[00:38:51] And then the third category are the mitzvahs that, um, don't make any sense.

[00:38:56] So a mitzvah that doesn't make any sense, but we just know that God wants us to fulfill

[00:38:59] it, even though we don't understand it would be, um, the laws of kosher, right?

[00:39:03] I was just going to say that sound, that sounds like, uh, keeping kosher to a certain extent.

[00:39:08] So there aren't many examples of laws that we don't understand whatsoever that fall into

[00:39:12] this category of chukim, which means irrational mitzvahs.

[00:39:16] Um, but like the laws of kosher, like I could eat kosher milk.

[00:39:20] I could drink kosher milk and then on a separate occasion, eat kosher meat and they're both fine.

[00:39:26] But for some reason, when I put the milk and meat together, that's problematic.

[00:39:29] I mean, that's just irrational, but nevertheless, for whatever reason, and no human has fathomed

[00:39:33] it, God doesn't want you to do that.

[00:39:35] So, so we don't do it.

[00:39:38] Well enough, but the justification is, is there.

[00:39:41] So right.

[00:39:42] And the justification is like, if the justification to do, it has to start earlier.

[00:39:46] If you're, if you're fulfilling what's known as a chuk, uh, an irrational mitzvah, you

[00:39:51] have to A, know that God exists.

[00:39:52] B, know that, know that God cares.

[00:39:55] C, know that God expressed what he cares about in the Torah.

[00:40:00] And then D, try to adhere to the Torah.

[00:40:03] Once you open that Torah book, you'll find, oh, wait a second.

[00:40:05] There are certain mitzvahs that I don't understand.

[00:40:06] But because I had those first four levels, I'm willing to adhere to them, even though

[00:40:10] I don't completely understand the depth.

[00:40:12] So in the, in the event that someone were to either intentionally or unintentionally not

[00:40:17] keep kosher, what, I guess what I hate to use the word penalty, but for lack of a better

[00:40:21] word, like what, what happens if someone, you know, makes a mistake or intentionally doesn't

[00:40:26] keep kosher or doesn't, um.

[00:40:28] Right.

[00:40:28] So.

[00:40:28] Adhere.

[00:40:29] As far as like societally, nothing.

[00:40:32] You know, maybe in the days, 2000 years ago, when there was a Jewish high court and there

[00:40:37] were witnesses testifying that someone ate not kosher and they were seeking to rebel,

[00:40:41] but that hasn't happened for 2000 years.

[00:40:42] Um, so societally nothing happens if someone doesn't eat kosher.

[00:40:46] Um, do we believe in like divine karma?

[00:40:49] Yes.

[00:40:50] Like, like I said before there, we do believe in reward and punishment.

[00:40:53] Again, we consider it pathetic for your motivation to be reward and punishment, but Jews do believe

[00:40:57] in reward and punishment.

[00:40:58] It just shouldn't be the why of you doing something.

[00:41:00] But I'd say the deepest thing or the worst thing that happens when somebody doesn't fulfill

[00:41:05] the mitzvahs is that they kind of, uh, harm their relationship to God.

[00:41:09] In other words, they don't have the deepest connection, right?

[00:41:12] That's, that's, that's really, if anyone has a spiritual inclination in their adherence

[00:41:16] to Judaism, that's really the motivation of all of this.

[00:41:19] In other words, you're trying to perfect your relationship to God and to, with the fellow

[00:41:22] man, right?

[00:41:23] So the mitzvahs between man and man, you're looking to perfect that relationship in the

[00:41:26] mitzvahs between man and God.

[00:41:27] You're looking to perfect your relationship with God, right?

[00:41:29] Sometimes the metaphor of a rope is given where you have like a whole bunch of strands

[00:41:33] comprising this rope.

[00:41:34] And yeah, the rope is not going to be completely split if you cut one strand, but ideally you

[00:41:40] want to keep that rope as intact as possible.

[00:41:43] And maybe for the strands that were previously cut, you may want to start retying them and,

[00:41:49] you know, perfecting your rope again.

[00:41:51] But that's the metaphor given.

[00:41:53] And it's just simply like you're looking to experience spirituality in a real pure way.

[00:41:58] And that's, that's the motivation in the first place.

[00:42:00] So like nothing will happen to you.

[00:42:01] There's no slaps on the wrist.

[00:42:02] Lightning doesn't come from heaven.

[00:42:04] None of that stuff.

[00:42:05] Stevie Wicks is setting out to give you the greatest candle you've ever smelled.

[00:42:09] And they're specializing in hand poured all natural soy wax candles.

[00:42:13] Many, many varieties.

[00:42:15] Very many scents.

[00:42:16] These things are so good.

[00:42:17] And each Stevie Wicks candle comes with a scent boosting tart right in the center.

[00:42:22] So you get a boost of scent as soon as you start burning your candle.

[00:42:25] What's really unique about Stevie Wicks though is not only can you get individual candles from

[00:42:29] them, but you can also sign up for their monthly subscription box.

[00:42:33] Once you subscribe, you'll receive a box every month full of candles and candle related items,

[00:42:38] such as their three wick candle, single wick candles, soy wax tarts.

[00:42:42] And also with every box, you'll get a free gift.

[00:42:45] This could be anything from another candle related item, semi-precious stone jewelry.

[00:42:51] Could be any number of things, including exclusive candles not available anywhere else.

[00:42:56] And if you are a Stevie Wicks subscriber, every month where there is a major holiday,

[00:42:59] you will get holiday themed candles.

[00:43:01] So if you want to get the best candles you've ever had today, go on to Stevie Wicks.com

[00:43:05] and place your order there or sign up for your monthly subscription box.

[00:43:09] And as a special deal for Arate viewers, use promo code Arate at checkout to receive 10%

[00:43:13] off your entire order.

[00:43:15] Or if you'd like to sign up for a monthly subscription box, use promo code Arate20 and you'll get 20%

[00:43:21] off your first month's box.

[00:43:23] It's so funny because like, again, I've had Jewish friends and acquaintances over the years.

[00:43:29] So like I have what I would characterize as like a, you know, like a tertiary knowledge

[00:43:34] of Judaism, but by no means fully understand.

[00:43:37] Can I just jump in for a sec?

[00:43:39] Like most Jews don't know Judaism.

[00:43:43] Oh, good.

[00:43:43] So I'm actually...

[00:43:45] In other words, just proximity to them.

[00:43:47] If they don't, they themselves don't know it, then how are they supposed to teach that

[00:43:51] to you?

[00:43:51] Not to mention, you guys are probably just like in the same fantasy football league.

[00:43:55] It wasn't like a theological relationship in most cases.

[00:43:58] But even if it is a theological or a deeper relationship, if the person themselves aren't

[00:44:04] educated on like this type of stuff, then how are they supposed to impart that on someone

[00:44:07] else?

[00:44:07] And that's kind of my job.

[00:44:09] You know, so much of a rabbi...

[00:44:10] Rabbi means teacher.

[00:44:11] That's what a rabbi means.

[00:44:12] I mean, the teacher.

[00:44:13] You know, and so much of what I do is just to teach everything I'm saying to you tonight

[00:44:17] is not obvious to most Jews.

[00:44:20] They need to study this stuff just like you're learning it for the first time.

[00:44:24] It's always sort of entertaining to me how, you know, again, I wouldn't go so far as to

[00:44:30] call myself a Christian, even though I...

[00:44:33] But I was raised Christian.

[00:44:33] So that's the theological base which I started and which I know the best because a lot of people

[00:44:38] don't know this about me.

[00:44:39] When I was younger, I was on path to become a pastor in my...

[00:44:43] I was raised Lutheran, Lutheran Protestant.

[00:44:45] So I surprise a lot of people.

[00:44:47] I know my Bible pretty well.

[00:44:50] But I'm always fascinated by how, in many ways, Judaism seems very, very similar.

[00:44:55] And then in other ways, just completely different.

[00:44:58] And that's one of the key ways is like Christianity, at least in all the sects that I've come across,

[00:45:04] all the denominations that I've come across, there's some more than others.

[00:45:07] But there's always this sort of idea of, like you said, punishment or guilt to some level.

[00:45:14] One of the things that really bothers me about a lot of Christians, so I'm not going to single anybody out, obviously.

[00:45:22] But like there does seem to be an air of superiority at times where it's like...

[00:45:26] And you have to constantly remind them that in the New Testament, you know, the iconic line in the New Testament is they're about to stone a woman for adultery.

[00:45:34] And Jesus says, let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

[00:45:38] And that's often forgotten in Christianity, because that's kind of the whole crux.

[00:45:43] Pun not intended, but hey.

[00:45:45] That's the whole crux of the faith is that, at least as far as the Christian ethic is concerned, is that we're all sinners.

[00:45:53] And to judge one another in that frame is like not only wrong, but it's kind of dumb because everybody's a sinner.

[00:46:03] Every human being is a sinner.

[00:46:04] So it's interesting, and I'm happy to hear it, that Judaism doesn't have that level of sort of judgment.

[00:46:12] It's wrong, like I said before, and maybe even, you know, in Christian faith, it's wrong as well.

[00:46:17] But I think even on a more surface level, it's tactically so dumb.

[00:46:24] Really? Yeah.

[00:46:25] You know, what's your goal?

[00:46:27] Like, what is the goal?

[00:46:29] The goal, generally speaking, is probably to make someone feel better about themselves, but it's a really weak way to do so.

[00:46:34] And that's just my opinion.

[00:46:36] Right, but they never admit that that's their goal.

[00:46:38] Never.

[00:46:39] They want to change the world, right?

[00:46:40] But changing the world will not happen if you're just mean.

[00:46:46] Well, one of the greatest thinkers, I don't know if you're familiar with Jordan Peterson, but one of my personal favorite thinkers is his whole philosophy.

[00:46:54] Well, not his whole philosophy, I'm sorry, but a good introductory philosophy he has is the virtue of cleaning your room.

[00:47:00] And that's both literal and metaphorical because it's like if you want to turn your life around, a great place to start is to just clean your room.

[00:47:08] But then that also goes to, you know, you can't go out and change the world if your house is in disarray.

[00:47:16] So it starts in your immediate sphere.

[00:47:19] Your immediate sphere of influence is the place that you sleep.

[00:47:22] There's a famous rabbi.

[00:47:24] I don't remember which.

[00:47:26] I have to look it up.

[00:47:27] But I always quote him.

[00:47:28] He said on his deathbed that when he was a young man, he wanted to change the world.

[00:47:34] And then when he got a little older, he became more realistic and said, you know what, just my country.

[00:47:38] And then as he grew a little older, just my city.

[00:47:41] And he went down to his town and his neighborhood.

[00:47:43] And then toward the end of his life, he's like, you know what, just my family.

[00:47:46] And then as he's lying there on my deathbed, he said, you know, I should have started with myself.

[00:47:50] And then I would have inspired my family.

[00:47:52] My family would have made ripple effects in my neighborhood and then to the town, city, country, world.

[00:47:57] So you just have to go about it the other way.

[00:47:59] Yeah.

[00:48:00] That's how it goes, though.

[00:48:01] I mean, I've literally seen it happen with more than a few people where it's like once somebody turns their life around or really does something great in their own sphere of influence, they take care of the people that are around them.

[00:48:14] It does have a ripple effect.

[00:48:16] It does.

[00:48:17] It's just that with social media, it became even harder to like appreciate the small things because you just see so many global personalities.

[00:48:26] You know what I mean?

[00:48:27] Yeah.

[00:48:27] Like you're a podcast host and you probably want to make the world a better place in some way through it.

[00:48:32] And then you just like compare yourself to Joe Rogan and you're like, oh, shit.

[00:48:38] That's not.

[00:48:39] Well, to be fair, I'm not nearly as cool as Joe Rogan.

[00:48:42] And I know that's not going to happen.

[00:48:43] So my avenue is a bit different.

[00:48:45] I would venture to say you're probably cooler, in my opinion.

[00:48:48] My humble opinion.

[00:48:48] Oh, I don't know.

[00:48:49] I don't know.

[00:48:50] That would be wild for me to even not even in a podcast setting, just to be able to meet and talk to that guy for five, ten minutes.

[00:48:56] Really?

[00:48:56] I like the way his mind.

[00:48:57] I like the way his mind works.

[00:48:59] I like how inquisitive and curious he is, or at least having never met him.

[00:49:03] But having listened to him talk to a lot of different people, I appreciate that about him.

[00:49:09] But that actually is a perfect segue to my next question.

[00:49:12] Tell me about the Indiana Men's Club.

[00:49:14] Okay.

[00:49:15] So the Indiana Men's Club is something we just started.

[00:49:17] I'm actually wearing the shirt, yo.

[00:49:19] Represent.

[00:49:19] There we go.

[00:49:21] Thanks to my friend Donick for printing that.

[00:49:23] It's just a Jewish men's club.

[00:49:25] You know, we started the Young Jewish Professionals of Indianapolis when we moved down to Indianapolis.

[00:49:30] And it's pretty much for young Jews between the ages of 21 and 40 or 45.

[00:49:35] And it's been great.

[00:49:36] Really growing.

[00:49:38] Started from scratch.

[00:49:39] Now we have a lot of people involved.

[00:49:41] Thank God.

[00:49:41] I wanted to mess around with a different dynamic where we were encouraging just like healthy male relationships, maybe, of all ages.

[00:49:50] So those two dynamics where it's just males and all ages.

[00:49:54] And it's kind of like just like a vintage parlor society where we'll take a different subject each time.

[00:49:59] And I'll prepare like different tidbits of food for thought for people.

[00:50:04] And we'll just discuss them after a couple of beers, you know, fewer inhibitions.

[00:50:09] And we're all, you know, it's after like 45 minutes of conversation.

[00:50:14] It's all very warm and open.

[00:50:15] And we only had one so far.

[00:50:17] We have another one scheduled.

[00:50:18] But it is, it materialized to something better than I even hoped for.

[00:50:24] Like the warmth was attained at this first gathering really early.

[00:50:28] And it was, it was, it was just, it was just all around good.

[00:50:31] The only downside of the first one was that the age ranges were still pretty much limited to the young Jewish professional group that I had.

[00:50:37] We had like a couple of people that would maybe like three or four that were older than the young Jewish professionals.

[00:50:41] But we'll work on that.

[00:50:42] I feel like for whatever reason, older people generally are more down.

[00:50:48] Really?

[00:50:49] Okay.

[00:50:49] They're just more down for getting together.

[00:50:52] They're less busy.

[00:50:53] But I think they're just also, you know, they think less before like agreeing to do a thing.

[00:50:59] Do you feel that?

[00:51:00] Yeah, I, it was funny because I, I, I sort of, I sort of misunderstood initially.

[00:51:06] Like, and at least in my experience, in my circle, you know, people that are older tend to not be so inclined to have sort of an in-depth conversation.

[00:51:17] Especially if it requires some really deep thought or even disagreement.

[00:51:20] Like my mother's, bless her heart, but she, she does not like conflict at all.

[00:51:25] And she often misconstrues a spirited debate as an argument.

[00:51:28] And it's like, no, no, they're not the same thing.

[00:51:30] Because at the end, one thing I pride myself on just as an individual is I can have an extremely heated debate.

[00:51:37] And at the end of it, we're still friends.

[00:51:40] You know, we disagree vehemently.

[00:51:43] Like I mentioned Justin earlier, Justin and I are so politically misaligned.

[00:51:48] It's a joke with us, but we can have just hardcore political discussions that last hours.

[00:51:56] And at the end of it, we were like, that's a really good conversation.

[00:51:58] And generally speaking, we come away at least maybe not necessarily agreeing, but we can, we can see how the other person arrived at their point of view.

[00:52:06] So it's, we could, we could tag this in the show notes or whatever, but I posted a month or so ago, a story from the Talmud where a guy, long story with the Talmud is, but pretty much a compendium of Jewish analysis on Jewish law.

[00:52:25] And he had a bar plukta, which is Aramaic for the guy that he always, always disagreed with.

[00:52:32] All right.

[00:52:33] He's a bar plukta.

[00:52:34] And they disagreed about everything.

[00:52:37] I think that you couldn't go five pages in the Talmud without saying a disagreement between them.

[00:52:42] And when one of them died, the other one's students tried to console him.

[00:52:50] So whenever that the surviving one made a point, his students and his friends would, would, would bring proofs for his point.

[00:52:59] They would say, oh, you're so right.

[00:53:00] You're so right.

[00:53:01] And he said, that's the exact opposite of what I'm looking for in a study partner.

[00:53:05] My, my former bar plukta, the guy that I would always argue with each time I made a point, he gave me 24 reasons why I was wrong.

[00:53:12] 24.

[00:53:14] And that's what I'm looking for in a study partner because they, they sharpen our ideas.

[00:53:19] They force us to either be right or to go home.

[00:53:23] So, so that, that, with the point you're making is definitely very much a Jewish value.

[00:53:28] Yeah.

[00:53:29] And just to your point about, cause you, you said it perfectly, it forces you to either be right or, you know, reevaluate.

[00:53:36] But one of the, one of the worst parts about sometimes I'll watch a debate and you can tell somebody, somebody may in fact be right.

[00:53:44] They just don't have the skills to articulate their point of view.

[00:53:48] Sophistry.

[00:53:49] Sophistry.

[00:53:49] Yeah, exactly.

[00:53:51] Yeah.

[00:53:52] So debate is just practice and a workout exercise for your ideas.

[00:53:57] And when somebody creams you or brings up a very good point, you're like, I need to reevaluate this.

[00:54:02] I need to really think long and hard about my point of view.

[00:54:06] Why do I have this point of view?

[00:54:07] Is it, do I actually believe it?

[00:54:09] Or if I've been told to believe this, what, what really draws me to this point?

[00:54:13] And unfortunately, a lot of people don't want to do the work, but for some reason I really enjoy thinking.

[00:54:19] So it's, it's my curse.

[00:54:20] You should know it's not so easy.

[00:54:21] Like, even though I preach that, you know, respectful argument is great and it's actually critical for society.

[00:54:27] You have this close friend.

[00:54:28] I'm assuming you guys have a deep relationship and there's like, I'm not going to say there's wedlock between you two, but it's like friend lock or whatever the term you want to use.

[00:54:36] Definite friend lock.

[00:54:37] But if you're just a guy on the street or someone that you kind of know peripherally, it's not easy to engage in a spirited conversation and then also not take it personally.

[00:54:46] Yeah.

[00:54:47] Yeah.

[00:54:48] I'm not trying to toot my own horn, but even today, because again, we do a lot of podcasts and one of them is it's not solely political, but it's basically, it's basically topical current events.

[00:54:58] So our comment section is usually people calling me stupid or, you know, that, that, and the other.

[00:55:03] And I've kind of made it a little game for myself is how nice can I be to this person in the comment section.

[00:55:11] And lo and behold, the comment thread started yesterday with, um, this person, I'm not even going to say, but calling me not very flattering names.

[00:55:22] And by the end of it, we're speaking two languages to each other and, you know, being like, Hey, we agree to disagree.

[00:55:29] Hope you have an amazing day.

[00:55:31] And that's where it ends.

[00:55:31] I try to do a comment section is actually easier for me because I have the time to reflect on what I'm writing.

[00:55:38] I agree.

[00:55:38] And then erase.

[00:55:39] Um, whereas in person it's much more reactionary, but, um, I try to do exactly that in the comment section.

[00:55:44] It's almost disarming when somebody is like super flagrantly, flagrantly rude and you just like answer their qualms and also respect them and like almost like praise their position, even though you disagree or whatever.

[00:55:56] Um, it's, it's, it's cool how that works.

[00:55:58] And like, you kind of, you win in another sense of the word.

[00:56:03] You just win.

[00:56:04] Yeah.

[00:56:05] Yeah.

[00:56:05] And I'll admit I'll throw in some sort of friendly jabs.

[00:56:08] Never.

[00:56:08] I, I have a very strict rule about not name calling unless it's a referential joke, but then it's not to insult.

[00:56:15] It's meant to elicit a laugh.

[00:56:17] So I, I have a hard and fast rule about no name calling, but for example, um, in this particular comment thread, um, he said at one point because he kept using punctuation and weird places.

[00:56:30] So I assumed that English wasn't his first language, but one thing he said was, uh, do you not know the English very well?

[00:56:37] So I responded in like the sentence structure of Yoda and then, and then immediately switched to like Elizabethan English.

[00:56:47] And, but then immediately after that, kind of having a little fun, I said, you know, based upon that, I'm, I'm assuming in a completely non-insulting way that English is not your first language.

[00:56:57] If like, am I right?

[00:56:59] What, what is your first language?

[00:57:00] And then turns out Quebec French is his, uh, mother tongue as it were.

[00:57:06] So that was fun.

[00:57:08] I, I like to speak Quebec French.

[00:57:10] I, oh man, years ago I was actually fluent in like Parisian French.

[00:57:15] Um, but I have so forgotten.

[00:57:17] I'm a bit of a language nerd, which I was going to ask this question later, but it's, it's appropriate.

[00:57:21] Now, any tips for learning Hebrew, specifically the alphabet?

[00:57:28] Um, so many, but I guess broadly, no, I mean, it just put in the work, but you already know that, you know, languages are so difficult to pick up and you, there's no silver bullets.

[00:57:39] Um, there's like different like memory games for particular letters that are confusing with other letters that I help like my students in Hebrew school with, but you're, that's like the specifics.

[00:57:49] So if you're not into the specifics, broadly speaking, I just, I just noticed when you just put your head down, that's the only way, but I've never learned a new language.

[00:57:57] Like I know three languages, but I haven't done any learning of new languages since I was a kid.

[00:58:03] So I can't really speak on the subject, but it's probably like any other.

[00:58:07] Yeah.

[00:58:07] Just put your head down and get to work.

[00:58:09] Yeah.

[00:58:09] Well, I was, I was, I thought it would be cute because I use Duolingo.

[00:58:13] Duolingo is amazing.

[00:58:14] Um, the problem with Duolingo though, is if you're learning a language that doesn't use the Latin alphabet, it uses the languages alphabet.

[00:58:22] So I was like, Hey, I really want to learn at least a little bit of Hebrew just because a lot of newsreels, you know, if they're interviewing people in Israel, you know, some people speak Hebrew and I'd like to know what they were saying and not take people's word for it.

[00:58:36] That's, that's a big thing.

[00:58:37] Cause I really want to learn Hebrew and Arabic for both those reasons, but they both have different alphabets.

[00:58:43] So in Duolingo though, you can learn the alphabet, but I was just like, ah, before I can actually get into this, I need to learn the alphabet.

[00:58:50] And that's, it's such a different, it's such a different animal than what I'm used to, but totally.

[00:58:56] Yeah.

[00:58:56] I think I'm just going to have to, going to have to study hard.

[00:59:00] Um, but the next question I had for you is, uh, can you explain the yarmulke?

[00:59:05] Yeah.

[00:59:07] I wear a yarmulke somewhere under this headset.

[00:59:09] There it is.

[00:59:11] Um, a yarmulke is a head covering, head covering that observant Jewish men wear.

[00:59:18] It's a reminder that no matter how high you reach, there's always going to be something above you.

[00:59:24] Um, that something symbolizes God.

[00:59:26] Uh, it's so in other words, it's like a humility thing.

[00:59:29] And it reminds you that at any given time, you have the expectation to make the situation you're in as godly and as spiritual and as good as possible.

[00:59:39] Are there a lot of, um, sort of practices in Judaism that sort of serve that purpose of like just reminding you about, um, God, your role in all that?

[00:59:52] I mean, I wear a tzitzit.

[00:59:54] Uh, this is similar.

[00:59:58] Um, a lot of like, uh, different details, which would indicate that you always have the obligation to fulfill as many good deeds as you can.

[01:00:08] Yeah.

[01:00:10] You know, for me, it's almost like a uniform.

[01:00:13] I don't know if anyone could fathom it, but, but maybe like just as a thought experiment, again, no proselytizing in Judaism, but just for the sake of science, throw on a yarmulke tomorrow and just walk around for a day.

[01:00:24] And, and you, it'll just be interesting to you.

[01:00:27] I'm curious because I've grown up with a yarmulke my whole life.

[01:00:29] I don't know what it's like to be anonymous.

[01:00:33] I think there might be a video.

[01:00:35] I don't know if me putting on a yarmulke would be offensive.

[01:00:38] Um, that could be a very interesting video idea because as long as it's not offensive.

[01:00:44] Oh my gosh.

[01:00:44] Yeah.

[01:00:45] You get the, for the green light is granted.

[01:00:48] I, I think that'd be an interesting video to do is have somebody like me.

[01:00:53] Cause you wouldn't even like, I think maybe because you've never worn a yarmulke for a day and then you'll go from that zero to one.

[01:00:59] And you'll notice like maybe a slightly more eyes upon you, but like, I don't, you know, Indiana's been great.

[01:01:09] Like there's no antisemitism.

[01:01:10] People don't react to me being openly Jewish with any bad stuff.

[01:01:14] If anyone's reacting to my Jewishness, it's just positive.

[01:01:17] Yeah.

[01:01:18] Indiana is an oddly, um, well, and I shouldn't say oddly surprisingly multicultural place.

[01:01:24] Um, you know, I don't think it's that.

[01:01:26] I think it's, I think it's just people truly, uh, respect, you know, in other words, if you would rewind to 1985, Indiana, um, or 1990 before it became so multicultural, I think you'd still get the same result.

[01:01:40] Like my dad moved here in 1980, it was, it wasn't the new multiculturalism that taught people how to be kind.

[01:01:46] I think it's just like good heartland Midwestern values that, um, propel just a certain kindliness or at the very least like a live and let live attitude.

[01:02:01] Yeah.

[01:02:01] Well, I, again, should have stated my point clearly because yeah, I think you're absolutely right.

[01:02:05] But I, I think the multiculturalism, cause I've seen it grow to a certain extent and I think it's because I think it's because, you know, this area just, it's just like you said, at the very least there's a live and let live aspect.

[01:02:18] But generally speaking, I haven't come across very many rude people here.

[01:02:23] Just absolutely not.

[01:02:24] It just doesn't happen that often.

[01:02:27] Jewish education in Indianapolis is pretty weak.

[01:02:29] So starting from fifth grade, I was in Chicago, um, for school and I was all over the world.

[01:02:35] Traveled a lot, did a lot of traveling, but also in schooling and different countries and all that.

[01:02:40] Indiana's sales point.

[01:02:41] Like I should tell governor Holcomb, like if you want people to move here, this is what makes us different is that our people are the nicest.

[01:02:47] Um, I don't think it's probably not too different from like any other non Chicago city in the Midwest.

[01:02:54] It probably isn't.

[01:02:55] But that sense of just like, just genuinely good people, kind people, conversational people, you know, open people.

[01:03:05] Um, I think there's just a bad rap, terrible rap for, you know, red States in big cities.

[01:03:12] Very much.

[01:03:13] Um, complete misunderstanding in my experience.

[01:03:15] Like any antisemitism that I faced in my life was only in large blue cities.

[01:03:22] Like Indiana has just been fantastic to me and my family.

[01:03:26] Well, and that's kind of the, I'm not going to say it's the dirty little secret, but that's kind of the, the thing that nobody really talks about when it comes to antisemitism.

[01:03:35] Because, you know, we, we were talking a little bit about, you know, October 7th before we started really the podcast proper.

[01:03:41] And as, as, as, as a non Jewish person and somebody who really doesn't, I don't have a direct dog in this fight other than just being a decent human being.

[01:03:50] Like I was amazed at the open antisemitism from places that purport to be bastions of tolerance.

[01:04:00] And I, I could not believe my eyes and I can only imagine what that was like for the Jewish community.

[01:04:07] Like I was in shock.

[01:04:09] Yeah.

[01:04:09] Um, it was crazy.

[01:04:11] And the fact that, um, to, again, to be blunt, um, like Arabs have passions about the, uh, conflict in Israel.

[01:04:20] That makes sense.

[01:04:20] And that wasn't, that was difficult to deal with as a Jewish community, obviously, but it wasn't surprising.

[01:04:28] I think for many Jews, they had placed so much hope historically over the last a hundred years in the university system.

[01:04:35] Um, and, and the Jews have just been so involved in getting the highest levels of education and professorships and board seats and all that stuff.

[01:04:44] And then for the colleges and the universities to be so openly hostile to just any expression of Jewishness, that I think was the most jarring.

[01:04:54] I'm not going to say that was the worst part of it.

[01:04:56] Because again, there's a war going on, but the most surprising was just how hostile, uh, that environment, which had just been, you know, for, for, for Jews in America, the academy, especially early on.

[01:05:07] And that was the great equalizer where like an immigrant Eastern European Jew that just had a good brain and worked hard.

[01:05:15] He can make it in that setting.

[01:05:17] Um, that that's been Jewish tradition in America, like American Jewish American tradition for yeah, like a hundred years now or more.

[01:05:24] So that, that was just a shocking, a shocking phenomenon.

[01:05:29] Well, and like the bench appears in the Jordan Peterson's again, I'm not huge listeners of them, but I'm, I'm, I'm sure they'll say, oh, it's been in the cards for the last 20 years.

[01:05:39] I mean, to a point, but even so I, Jordan doesn't really speak as Jordan's not Jewish.

[01:05:43] Um, but he, he didn't really speak to that, but Ben, I know yes and no, because he, he's sort of openly critical of the university system.

[01:05:52] Um, but even, I think even he was surprised at the level of just blatant.

[01:05:58] I mean, I'll put it to you this way.

[01:06:00] If, if the people doing that had been wearing MAGA hats, for example, the entire establishment would have been rightfully calling out antisemitism, but because their side was the ones doing it.

[01:06:12] They just the mental gymnastics of justification and calling it anything but antisemitism.

[01:06:18] If they were doing, if they were wearing MAGA hats and did one 20th.

[01:06:22] True.

[01:06:23] What the people on campus were doing, it would still be like January.

[01:06:27] They'd be in jail.

[01:06:27] January six levels of, of media coverage.

[01:06:31] Yeah.

[01:06:31] No doubt.

[01:06:32] And that's not a, and that's not a partisan statement that, I mean, sorry, not sorry.

[01:06:36] That's a statement of fact.

[01:06:38] I mean, there, there's precedent for that.

[01:06:41] Take Jews aside.

[01:06:42] Even if it had nothing to do with Jews, if people on MAGA hats camped on a campus, blocking entry to different buildings,

[01:06:48] for, for a day, for one day, not to mention it went on for months, but for one day, it would be a news story for a very, very long time.

[01:06:57] They'd still be talking about it.

[01:06:59] They'd be talking about it in 2028.

[01:07:01] Greetings, boys and girls.

[01:07:02] My name is Isaiah Vargas.

[01:07:04] For over three decades, R.L.

[01:07:06] Stein's Goosebumps has reigned as one of the bestselling book series in history, spawning a monster franchise that's lasted since 1992 and spawning a massive fan base.

[01:07:15] Folks who love to talk about this influential series.

[01:07:18] And that's where we come in.

[01:07:20] Join the Goosebumps crew, Nick Shaw, Bjorn Panelik, and myself every week as we dive into the world of Goosebumps and talk about everything from the books, TV shows, movies, video games, merchandise, and so much more.

[01:07:33] Many like-minded Goosebumps fans and a growing list of special guests join us.

[01:07:37] So if you want Goosebumps, get with the program.

[01:07:41] Tune in to the Goosebumps crew every week on YouTube and audio platforms.

[01:07:45] Become a Goosebumps crew member today.

[01:07:47] Listen with the lights on.

[01:08:00] So as a rabbi, there's the reaction to October 7th and generally like the shocking displays on campus.

[01:08:09] It's just been a really strong reminder that Jews have never sought to be victims.

[01:08:16] Like people have been so strong and just going forward, building and teaching and developing communities and even businesses and all things that we were doing so well until now.

[01:08:28] I've just been shocked how that's been the mentality since October 7th as well.

[01:08:34] And I've been very impressed because, you know, for a lot of people, the victim mentality is very tempting in 2024.

[01:08:40] And for the Jewish people, obviously there are exceptions, but on the whole, they've been very resolute in saying, we're just doing our thing.

[01:08:52] You know, we're going to continue marching straight forward to prosperity and to strong communities and to, you know, educating our young and raising family and all those important things.

[01:09:01] Yeah. And I had asked you in the email, just just making sure because I had assumed you had been you obviously have traveled to Israel because you answered that question as someone who has never been.

[01:09:12] But honestly, one day, obviously, when things are a little bit calmer, would love to go.

[01:09:17] I mean, what's Israel like?

[01:09:21] Frankly, I probably don't know right now because Israel as a land is, you know, three, 3000 years old or more.

[01:09:30] But as a state, the modern state of Israel is so young, so young that the last time I was there was maybe over 10 years ago.

[01:09:39] And that constitutes what one seventh of its entire history.

[01:09:44] That's a that's a very fair point.

[01:09:46] Right. So like an American ratio, that would be like going back in time, not to 2014.

[01:09:53] That'd be like going back to like 1997 or whatever or more even.

[01:09:57] So it's a total. Yeah, I get that.

[01:09:58] It's a totally different place.

[01:09:59] You know, I think they're just a lot more technology there.

[01:10:04] The buildings are, you know, just real estate's nicer.

[01:10:09] People are much more plugged into like generally that's true across the world of like what the trends are.

[01:10:14] Instagram just did that, you know, what the trends are in New York City and Paris.

[01:10:19] They bleed into Tel Aviv, but also into, you know, Novosibirsk or whatever, you know, all over the world.

[01:10:26] So there's that. But my time in Israel was really lovely.

[01:10:29] I spent time in a yeshiva, which is like a rabbinical seminary, I guess, in Hulon, which is not a touristic or well-known city.

[01:10:37] But it's a big Israeli city.

[01:10:39] And it really gave me a great sense of the city, not like the whitewashed version for tourists or for visitors or for the news.

[01:10:47] Here's just a really vibrant, cool city that doesn't attract any tourists.

[01:10:53] And just, you know, Israelis living their life.

[01:10:55] And I really loved it.

[01:10:56] They allowed me to stay in the country, even though I was an obnoxious adolescent.

[01:11:01] So I guess I'm grateful for them for that.

[01:11:05] Yeah, it's just an all around good time.

[01:11:07] I think I'm always shocked.

[01:11:09] I don't know.

[01:11:10] They just seem so, so industrious.

[01:11:13] Like, I'm always shocked about how industrious Israel is.

[01:11:15] They really got the short stick and, you know, just being surrounded by a bunch of enemies looking to destroy them at all given times.

[01:11:22] And to develop such a vibrant economy and and culture and food scene and music and and not to mention happy citizens.

[01:11:31] They're just crushing it all around.

[01:11:33] And now the plurality of Jews live in Israel for the first time.

[01:11:40] I think that happened like in the last five years that the biggest of the entire world Jewish population, the largest country is currently Israel.

[01:11:48] They beat the Jewish population of the USA.

[01:11:50] Yeah.

[01:11:50] Oh, OK, because I remember just having a random discussion and somebody asked me, they're like, where do you know most Jewish people live in the world?

[01:12:00] And I said, I think for a time, at least it was like specifically New York City, but the United States.

[01:12:06] So really, the Jewish population in Israel has eclipsed the Jewish population in the United States.

[01:12:11] That's incredible.

[01:12:12] Yeah, that's incredible.

[01:12:13] That's that's I mean, it seems counterintuitive, but I mean, it makes sense.

[01:12:17] Yes. I after this war is over, I want to just see if I could do some study.

[01:12:23] And I'm assuming one of these pop historians have already done it.

[01:12:25] But I think even if you include all the dead of the wars and terrorism in Israel, include all that stuff.

[01:12:32] The last 75 or 80 years, which was since the founding of the modern state of Israel, probably was the era in history where the least Jews were killed.

[01:12:40] If you include even if include all the wars and all the terrorism, just we've been facing so much, you know, anti-Semitism that killed across the world.

[01:12:48] Even if you would add all of that up, it just wouldn't compare to any 80 year period from before then.

[01:12:54] I'm pretty sure that's a true statement.

[01:12:56] So I'm making sure I understand what you're saying.

[01:12:58] So you're you're you're saying that as far as you can tell, that even if you add up from from the history, the fewest number, the fewest, the lowest number of Jewish deaths has occurred within the state of Israel.

[01:13:12] Is that is that what you're saying?

[01:13:14] I believe that to me.

[01:13:14] I mean, it's a theory.

[01:13:16] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[01:13:17] I just want to make sure I understood your theory.

[01:13:19] You have to realize that before the modern state of Israel, before America, because America is, I would argue, the greatest place for a Jew to be ever in history.

[01:13:29] I love this country.

[01:13:30] I'm grateful for what I did to my grandparents, my great grandparents.

[01:13:33] I'm grateful for what it does to me every day.

[01:13:34] I don't I don't take it for granted whatsoever.

[01:13:37] But before America and before Israel, Jews were extremely spread out.

[01:13:41] So just because things were going well for, let's say, the Jews of Salonica in Greece from between the years 1700 to 1800.

[01:13:47] At that time, there were still pogroms happening in, you know, Eastern Europe and then vice versa.

[01:13:52] And when times were good in Eastern Europe between 1400 and 1600, you know, Jews are being exposed, you know, exiled from Spain at that time.

[01:14:00] So if you would just take on the balance at any given 80 period, 80 year period throughout history, I think it's an interesting theory to look at.

[01:14:09] I think it's probably true when you phrase it that way.

[01:14:13] And it would make sense because part of the justification.

[01:14:16] I mean, there was I hate to say it this way because it sounds like the state of Israel needs to justify its existence.

[01:14:22] It doesn't.

[01:14:22] But one of the justifications for statehood of the nation of Israel was the fact that it's particularly after the Holocaust.

[01:14:28] It became clear.

[01:14:31] And particularly after the United States for a time, they didn't bar immigration, but they rejected a certain number of European Jews from immigrating from Europe to the United States.

[01:14:42] It became very clear, or I would think it became very clear that there really is no what you would consider like a completely safe place for Jewish people anywhere in the world because it was all at the very least dependent on the whims of whatever nation was in question.

[01:14:57] So that was that was a really big justification for the foundation of the state of Israel as I understand it.

[01:15:03] So if that is true, which I agree with you, I think it probably is.

[01:15:06] If you just look at the numbers, I mean, case in point, man, like, yeah, yeah, that's the argument.

[01:15:13] Yeah.

[01:15:13] For me, like, I don't know if that's my argument for the justification of the state of Israel.

[01:15:18] This is like a huge political conversation.

[01:15:19] I mean, there's there's way more than that.

[01:15:21] But I mean, that's one of many.

[01:15:22] No, many, many Jews like that would be the most heard argument from Jewish people today.

[01:15:27] It's just not mine.

[01:15:28] I think for me, it's it's it's so much more practical.

[01:15:31] I think that, you know, so many Jews are moving to Israel and they were just legally buying land from people.

[01:15:37] Yeah.

[01:15:37] And I think that's something that a lot of.

[01:15:39] Yeah.

[01:15:40] I think that's something a lot of people don't know, though, is like I and it's the way they talk about it.

[01:15:45] And I've only learned more about this recently.

[01:15:48] But again, history nerd.

[01:15:49] So I just read a lot of history and love history document good history documentaries, because let's be honest, some of them are awful.

[01:15:57] But a lot of people don't understand the fact that I mean, there were already Jews immigrating to what was then the mandate of Palestine and buying land legally.

[01:16:09] So this this was a thing that was already happening.

[01:16:12] It was just a question of legal statehood, which I mean, I'm sorry, it wasn't just a question of legal statehood, but it's semantically it's not that much different from what was already happening is what I'm getting at.

[01:16:25] Yes.

[01:16:26] I mean, I read a letter this morning from the first Chabad Rebbe, who was writing to the Jews of Israel in the late 1700s, you know, and Jews have been living there for a while.

[01:16:37] And I think if the wars weren't sparked against the Jews, they would have just continued to legally purchase land and places that they wanted to live just like anyone else anywhere else in the world.

[01:17:15] Mm hmm.

[01:17:18] No matter where you are, you're legally buying property anywhere you're abiding by their laws.

[01:17:22] And I mean, so like for me, obviously, like I'm a rabbi and I believe in the validity of the Torah.

[01:17:27] And I think like God gave the land to Abraham and all those things.

[01:17:30] But like my political arguments are much more mundane.

[01:17:32] Yeah.

[01:17:33] Yeah.

[01:17:33] But I mean, they're no less, they're no less valid.

[01:17:36] And in some ways they might be even a little bit more because you wouldn't be accused of making an argument from authority with, you know, that political stance.

[01:17:44] Exactly.

[01:17:44] Yeah.

[01:17:44] So, yeah, I'm very much in the same camp as you because I'm still dupefied at times with some of the arguments and claims people are making in regards to that.

[01:17:56] You know, it's it's it's a it's a wild and weird world out there.

[01:18:00] But on a happier note, your profile had said that one of your things that you love to do is read.

[01:18:08] What would what do you like to read?

[01:18:11] And if I can press you for the answer to this question, what is your favorite book ever?

[01:18:16] Yeah, I don't have a favorite book.

[01:18:18] I guess I won't cheat and I won't answer any religious book because that's like that's a rabbinic cop out.

[01:18:25] But when I was young and I thought of myself as more serious, I insisted on reading just nonfiction and history books because I said,

[01:18:36] if I'm not studying Torah and if I'm not studying Jewish law and Jewish philosophy, then at least let it be true.

[01:18:41] And like the older I got, I'm kind of at a different place now where I think the truer books.

[01:18:47] Broadly speaking, are fiction because, you know, nonfiction is limited to the scope of the author and the subject matter and what is including in sins of omission and commission and all those things.

[01:18:59] Whereas with fiction, if I have a different interpretation than the author, that's still fine.

[01:19:04] You know what I mean?

[01:19:05] Yeah.

[01:19:05] It's just it's just the truth as I see it.

[01:19:08] So I mean, I don't read I try to read smart fiction.

[01:19:11] Like I try to read the classics or, you know, the bigger brain fiction.

[01:19:14] But I've been mostly reading those.

[01:19:16] But I'm still doing I'd say it's like one third nonfiction, two thirds fiction for me right now.

[01:19:22] Oh, very good.

[01:19:23] Yeah, I went through a very similar period where, again, in my younger years.

[01:19:29] Wish I could talk to that kid.

[01:19:30] And it was very similar, similar attitude where it's like, well, I mean, fiction is in a way a waste of time, except for the classics.

[01:19:37] But the very little secret is a lot of the class, not all of them.

[01:19:40] A lot of the classics are boring.

[01:19:41] Like just being right.

[01:19:43] A lot of them are really tough reads.

[01:19:45] But yeah, also, I love reading so much.

[01:19:49] I just I wish I had more time to read more.

[01:19:52] It's a problem because life is busy in 2024.

[01:19:55] Do you have children?

[01:19:56] I do not.

[01:19:57] You have.

[01:19:58] I have.

[01:19:59] You got to finish a book a week.

[01:20:01] Fair enough.

[01:20:02] You know what?

[01:20:03] I need.

[01:20:03] Yes, I need to be better about that because every time I try to give myself an excuse, I'm like, well, really?

[01:20:08] Do you?

[01:20:09] I know you do a lot of podcasts and you work 60 hours a week plus.

[01:20:13] But I mean, you've got time.

[01:20:15] You've got time.

[01:20:16] It's true.

[01:20:16] You're right.

[01:20:17] You're absolutely right.

[01:20:17] So I'm not going to say this is my favorite book.

[01:20:20] But to answer your question, I finished this book recently and I loved it.

[01:20:24] It's heavy and sad.

[01:20:26] But also hilarious and beautiful.

[01:20:29] It's from Cynthia Ozick.

[01:20:30] It's called The Shawl.

[01:20:31] And it's about it's super short.

[01:20:33] So one of those like really approachable books.

[01:20:35] It's about a Holocaust survivor.

[01:20:37] The first scene is just her experiencing witnessing the murder of her baby that she had been hiding for a long time in the death camps.

[01:20:44] She survives and then goes to live like a way less poetic life in New York and then South Florida.

[01:20:51] Yeah.

[01:20:52] And like, I don't know if your audience will love it as much because it like laughs at a bunch of like the stereotypical Jewish retiree stuff.

[01:20:58] And it's all just like very refer.

[01:21:00] I love books that remind me how pathetic I and humans are.

[01:21:06] Like, that's my favorite type of book.

[01:21:07] Like, if I look at Dostoevsky, like it just shows like anything that emphasizes human shortcomings.

[01:21:12] That's the type of fiction I like reading.

[01:21:14] If I'm looking for what humans can accomplish, I go to my Jewish books.

[01:21:17] But if I'm looking for how pathetic we are left to our own devices or if we neglect, you know, self-perfection and all those things like trying to be a better person.

[01:21:26] If we neglect that stuff and just fall into the traps of just being a human.

[01:21:30] I love those books.

[01:21:31] And it's fun to laugh at.

[01:21:32] So she's really good there.

[01:21:34] Super perceptive, super funny, super harsh.

[01:21:37] Like, I love a good, harsh book of human character.

[01:21:41] I'm writing down The Shawl.

[01:21:43] The Shawl is great.

[01:21:44] You can also read, this is a little bit less of a hot take, more famous, but read also Saul Bellows.

[01:21:52] He's the author.

[01:21:53] Mr. Samler's Planet.

[01:21:55] Great.

[01:21:56] Fantastic.

[01:21:57] You should read that too.

[01:21:58] So that's, so I said I did two thirds fiction, one third nonfiction.

[01:22:01] So let me give you a nonfiction recommendation.

[01:22:03] You know, I really enjoyed this one book, but it might be too niche.

[01:22:07] There's no such thing for me.

[01:22:08] All right.

[01:22:08] So it's called, it's called The Pity of It All.

[01:22:10] And it's the history of Jews in Germany from like the late 1600s to the, just right before

[01:22:17] the Holocaust.

[01:22:18] The author's just a little bit, you know, secular Israelis tend to be super condescending to religious

[01:22:25] people.

[01:22:25] Um, I didn't even have to Wikipedia his name to know that he's that type.

[01:22:29] And then I Wikipedia his name.

[01:22:31] Like, of course he's a secular.

[01:22:32] That's condescending.

[01:22:33] But having said that, and even though he'd probably scoff at my entire existence, it is a fantastic

[01:22:38] book.

[01:22:38] Um, he does it really thorough job.

[01:22:40] I will say it's not, he's a little bit imprecise with the, um, he's a little imprecise with his

[01:22:47] subtitle.

[01:22:47] It isn't a history of Jews in Germany.

[01:22:50] It's rather a history of famous Jews in Germany, slightly different because he's like painting

[01:22:55] a portrait.

[01:22:55] So he's, he's focusing on like famous poets and authors and politicians and businessmen,

[01:23:00] but he doesn't like gauge the populace at all, which was frustrating to me because like,

[01:23:04] I wanted to hear what like the regular German Jews were saying and talking and acting and

[01:23:08] where they were buying and thinking, et cetera, or whether they were attending synagogue, all

[01:23:12] that stuff.

[01:23:12] He wasn't focusing on that, but he takes all the famous Jews pretty much from between the,

[01:23:17] the, uh, 17th century and the early 20th century.

[01:23:21] And it's just really well written.

[01:23:22] You eat it up.

[01:23:23] It's like super fast paced.

[01:23:24] I really liked it.

[01:23:26] I may have a book recommendation for you depending on, are you, are you a familiar and or a fan

[01:23:31] of the film Casablanca?

[01:23:33] I just watched it for the first time, like two months ago.

[01:23:36] Okay.

[01:23:37] Did you like it or?

[01:23:40] Um, I think I need to watch it again before I issue an opinion.

[01:23:42] Cause I know it's such a heavy movie.

[01:23:45] Yeah, it really is.

[01:23:47] And of course, for some reason, Oh, right here.

[01:23:50] I've got it.

[01:23:50] I actually, I bought this by accident.

[01:23:52] I thought this was just a novelization of the book Casablanca out of the movie Casablanca.

[01:23:58] And you know, novelizations usually go more into detail.

[01:24:01] Um, this is actually a sequel.

[01:24:04] And I did not know that.

[01:24:05] So I started reading it and I'm like, wait a minute.

[01:24:08] Why are we?

[01:24:08] I'm like, okay, maybe we're starting out like in media res after that.

[01:24:12] And then Rick's going to go through a flashback and it becomes very clear by about halfway through

[01:24:16] the first chapter.

[01:24:16] I'm like, wait a minute.

[01:24:17] This is after Ilsa and Laszlo get on the plane.

[01:24:21] So then I was like, Oh, this is a sequel.

[01:24:23] Um, they retconned the character of Rick.

[01:24:26] I'm not spoiling it for you.

[01:24:27] Um, it turns out Rick is Jewish.

[01:24:30] Huh?

[01:24:30] At least in this book, they, they retconned.

[01:24:33] Which one is Rick?

[01:24:34] Is he the, the, the owner of, uh, the cafe, Humphrey Bogart reference.

[01:24:40] Yeah.

[01:24:40] Did he make a reference to that in the movie?

[01:24:41] I have to remember.

[01:24:42] I don't recall him making one.

[01:24:44] And if it was, it might've because Rick's a very dry, sarcastic character, but this book

[01:24:49] is amazing.

[01:24:50] It's so good.

[01:24:51] I can't recommend it enough.

[01:24:53] It's almost as good as the movie.

[01:24:55] All right.

[01:24:55] I'll put it at the end of my book queue.

[01:24:57] I think it's at spot 177.

[01:24:59] Yeah.

[01:25:00] You sound like me.

[01:25:01] No, but it was very interesting.

[01:25:03] Cause I was like, uh, and to, to your point, it might be referenced in the movie, but at

[01:25:08] least I didn't pick up on it.

[01:25:09] So to me, uh, making Rick, cause I think his given name is Yitzik.

[01:25:13] Uh, he goes by Rick cause he, he ends up becoming involved in the American gangster

[01:25:18] scene in the 1930s.

[01:25:19] Um, so he changes his name to Rick.

[01:25:21] Um, it adds an incredible extra layer of depth to his character in Casa Blanca.

[01:25:28] If you aren't aware of the fact that canonically speaking, the character is Jewish.

[01:25:33] So it makes it a much more interesting film knowing that.

[01:25:38] So that's my book recommendation.

[01:25:40] Thank you.

[01:25:40] Yeah.

[01:25:41] So I kind of didn't want to, that's not really a downer, but I guess just kind of like the

[01:25:45] heaviest question I have for you is, do you believe that Christians, Jews, and Muslims

[01:25:52] can live together and get along in the year 2024?

[01:25:57] Absolutely.

[01:25:59] Okay.

[01:25:59] We're on the same page.

[01:26:00] I figured you would say yes, but yeah, it's one of those questions you have to ask.

[01:26:04] I think, I mean, I feel like everybody would say yes.

[01:26:07] Where the real disagreement would be is the how.

[01:26:11] Yeah.

[01:26:12] I mean, yeah, for sure.

[01:26:13] I think, I, I think the premise of saying that like God exists or even, and we should be

[01:26:20] pursuing fulfilling his will and becoming better people.

[01:26:24] Generally, it's like a really great starting point that is probably lost in the shuffle

[01:26:29] of politics, but we'll get there.

[01:26:31] Like, you know, on the, on the, on the individual level, on like the, on the retail level, it's

[01:26:39] just been good experiences for sure with Christians, because there's like no beef between Jews and

[01:26:43] Christians currently, but like, even with the Muslims that I've been meeting in different,

[01:26:47] at different occasions, just grabbed a coffee with a Muslim dude last week.

[01:26:51] It's just been positive.

[01:26:53] You know, the solutions to the crisis in the Middle East are, are probably not going to be

[01:26:58] straightforward.

[01:26:59] Even if you think they're easy, even if you think that they're straightforward, they're

[01:27:02] not going to be easy, but for sure, for sure, for sure.

[01:27:06] In America, I'm super optimistic and not just optimistic.

[01:27:10] I think for the most part, we're already there.

[01:27:14] I would tend to agree.

[01:27:16] What I've really come to realize in the past, like 10, 15 years or so is that the vocal minority,

[01:27:23] while they're usually the lowest, they are truly a minority though.

[01:27:27] The vast majority of people, and I, I mean, honestly, to a point, the last election kind

[01:27:31] of proved it is the silent majority, which is basically all, all the normal people, 80%

[01:27:38] of the population, tend to be just very agreeable, kind, like co-existent people who just, who

[01:27:49] just aren't interested in fighting.

[01:27:51] At least not, not between those, those sorts of fights.

[01:27:55] Like, yeah, they'll fight for a good livelihood and, you know, their rights and whatnot.

[01:27:59] But the vast majority of people just want to live their lives and not be bothered and not

[01:28:03] bother anyone else.

[01:28:04] And I truly believe that.

[01:28:06] Yes, I agree.

[01:28:09] So I have taken up more than enough of your time and I greatly appreciate it there.

[01:28:15] I agree.

[01:28:16] And you're, I always extend the invitation.

[01:28:18] You're more than welcome to come back on anytime you want.

[01:28:21] You just let me know.

[01:28:22] But in closing, where can people go if they want to learn more about Judaism?

[01:28:28] There are two books that I recommend broadly if they want to learn more about Judaism.

[01:28:31] One is called Jewish Literacy.

[01:28:33] It's by Joseph Telushkin.

[01:28:36] He's great.

[01:28:37] Super thorough, like a little crash course.

[01:28:39] Each chapter is like two or three pages starting from the Bible all the way through modern times.

[01:28:44] And then that's like the more knowledge trivia base, a lot of it.

[01:28:49] And then the more like inspirational side of things, a good book for that, even for Gentiles, would be Toward a Meaningful Life.

[01:28:59] Toward a Meaningful Life by Simon Jacobson.

[01:29:03] That's another book I recommend a lot.

[01:29:05] And it's just fantastic and thorough and meaningful and fast, not a difficult read.

[01:29:10] And then, yeah, you could reach out to me.

[01:29:13] I'm on all the, if you have like any particular question that you want to ask, you could reach out to me.

[01:29:18] I'm more than happy to answer.

[01:29:19] On Instagram, I'm at david.g.

[01:29:23] You could hear me on the Zal podcast.

[01:29:26] Yeah, I'm pretty much open in any way, any form of communication.

[01:29:30] My window is open to carrier pigeons.

[01:29:34] And all his links are in the description below too.

[01:29:37] So if you want to check any of that out, feel free to do so.

[01:29:40] Please do.

[01:29:42] And David, thank you again.

[01:29:44] Thank you so much for having me.

[01:29:45] This was super fun.

[01:29:47] I would love to do it again.

[01:29:48] And let me know if you want to do that yarmulke experiment video.

[01:29:51] I'm open.

[01:29:51] I'm down.

[01:29:52] I will be your Gentile pig, as it were.

[01:29:58] That's great.

[01:29:59] I didn't even know if you intended that alliteration from Guinea.

[01:30:03] Oh, I did.

[01:30:03] That was the joke.

[01:30:05] Okay, nice.

[01:30:06] Yeah.

[01:30:06] That was the joke.

[01:30:08] I guess I can't be a Gentile pig because that wouldn't be kosher.

[01:30:11] Well, Gentiles are allowed to eat pigs.

[01:30:13] Even Jewish people.

[01:30:14] Fair.

[01:30:16] All right, brother.

[01:30:17] I appreciate you.

[01:30:18] Also, I just learned that you're in Indianapolis.

[01:30:19] So we could, even without creating content, we could grab a beer sometime.

[01:30:23] Absolutely.

[01:30:23] Unfortunately, I don't drink, but we can definitely grab a drink of some type.

[01:30:26] That works as well.

[01:30:28] All righty, my friend.

[01:30:29] Well, you have a great evening.

[01:30:30] Thank you again for coming on, and we will talk to you soon.