Startup Corps Episode 8: Jamaila Holder from Holder Advisery & Associates

[00:00:00] This podcast is brought to you by Valena.

[00:00:23] As I can remember, I have wanted to be an entrepreneur.

[00:00:32] As of building your business, embracing emerging technologies and navigating the startup world.

[00:00:38] I am Saul Tarazona and this is Startup Corps, your go-to podcast for entrepreneurial insights and tech-driven success.

[00:00:48] Hello everyone. Welcome for once again the Startup Corps podcast episode.

[00:00:55] We're going to have an amazing, amazing guest today. Another female entrepreneur.

[00:01:02] This is going to be the second, so you should be proud. You're the second female entrepreneur that I interviewed.

[00:01:07] Yay.

[00:01:09] Please introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about you.

[00:01:13] Yeah, for sure. Hi everyone. My name is Jamaila Holder.

[00:01:16] I, too, am based in Miami with Saul and I am a product advisory.

[00:01:21] So I started about a year ago. I created my own consulting company where I am working with founders and VCs on product strategy, vision,

[00:01:32] and I have a number of different service offerings that support founders as they're building.

[00:01:36] I look at my product management background as an opportunity to educate founders and also guide and lead these founders to create the right product development processes in-house,

[00:01:49] as well as create the right product development processes that are going to help them ultimately build the product that they want.

[00:01:57] Oftentimes I hear from founders that they are working with an engineering team and they're not really sure how to manage the team or the product development is going over budget.

[00:02:07] So I'm teaching a lot of skills that product managers typically use in our nine to five jobs to support founders who need that sort of training so that they are able to now not only develop their products,

[00:02:24] but hopefully develop their products within the right budget and the time allotment that they've agreed to with their technical teams.

[00:02:33] So it's a lot of fun over here on this side.

[00:02:37] Fantastic. So let me take you back to the time that you were looking to find what you're going to study.

[00:02:45] Why you pick what you study?

[00:02:47] And at some point I'm going to ask you a very interesting job that you got on LinkedIn, which I am really good.

[00:02:52] I really like it. So please go ahead. Tell us about your education.

[00:02:57] Sure. So I went to Temple University for undergrad.

[00:03:00] I was a finance major. Then I worked at Vanguard for a number of years.

[00:03:05] At one point I was pricing bond mutual funds. At another point I was doing internal consulting.

[00:03:10] So I've like lived nine lives before I actually got to tech and to product management.

[00:03:16] But my last role at Vanguard was in a product capacity, actually.

[00:03:22] And so that was the kind of foray to me getting into product management.

[00:03:29] After that role, I went to business school.

[00:03:31] I went to Duke, the Fuqua School of Business.

[00:03:34] So I was in North Carolina for two years while I was doing my MBA.

[00:03:39] But I kept thinking like, hey, I think I want to go into tech.

[00:03:42] I just don't know exactly what I want to do.

[00:03:45] So after business school, I joined SAP.

[00:03:49] They had a rotational program for recent business school graduates.

[00:03:53] And I got a chance to do a whole lot of things.

[00:03:55] So I did an M&A rotation.

[00:03:57] I did a product management rotation in Germany.

[00:04:00] And by far one of my favorite rotations was my rotation that I did in the Midwest with the VP of the Midwest sales unit.

[00:04:10] And so that was just a lot of fun because I had kind of like thought about going the sales route, but I hadn't actually done it before.

[00:04:18] And so I met with and talked with a lot of people that were selling.

[00:04:22] And so I realized that there were probably certain things I'd have to do prior to getting into sales and really understanding and becoming a really good salesperson by actually watching and talking to all of these different sales executives and executives in general.

[00:04:42] And so I realized that I was a great tool.

[00:04:42] Where I am now in product management and product advisory is actually pretty fun because by talking with a number of different salespeople, I felt like I kept hearing at SAP like, hey, you know, I asked them, I asked the product managers to build, you know, such and such.

[00:05:01] Why haven't they done it yet?

[00:05:02] How hard can it be?

[00:05:03] So part of me wanted to see just how, quote unquote, difficult it actually could be by going into product management at SAP within SuccessFactors, which is the HR tech arm of the company.

[00:05:19] And to be honest with you, you know, I think there's always a disconnect between working in enterprise with sales and product because, you know, in some ways sales wants to be able to have influence on the roadmap.

[00:05:33] But in other ways, product managers want to be able to have their own sort of influence.

[00:05:38] So it was actually great to be able to bridge the two and marry both experiences together.

[00:05:45] But when I, you know, started thinking about what the next phase of my product management journey looked like, I ended up joining LinkedIn and going to LinkedIn Learning to do product lead for the instructor strategy within LinkedIn Learning.

[00:06:03] So that's like everything from the instructors that are actually creating courses on LinkedIn Learning and the analytics that they might want, and also thinking about their engagement opportunities and how to make sure that they are able to now get more followers and, you know, getting more people to take their courses.

[00:06:23] But a funny thing around that time is that I started talking to a lot more founders about what they were building.

[00:06:32] And I had also moved to Miami more recently around that time as well.

[00:06:36] And the question I kept getting was, hey, you're a product manager.

[00:06:40] Can you help me build this thing?

[00:06:43] Or I have an idea.

[00:06:44] How do I get started?

[00:06:46] So I started taking a lot of calls pro bono.

[00:06:49] And it wasn't really like a monetization opportunity for me.

[00:06:53] I just realized I had knowledge that I can share with other people.

[00:06:57] And I just went down the rabbit hole of sharing what I knew with founders to help them understand what a product development cycle might look like for them as I would consider them to be product managers, founders, product owners, salespeople, because, you know, a founder wears so many hats.

[00:07:15] But at the heart of your tech company is a product.

[00:07:19] And so my goal with doing these calls and supporting these founders has always been to help them understand what they can do differently in order to build their product and hopefully make it a smoother ride for them as a founder.

[00:07:35] All right.

[00:07:36] So to summarize, if you're a startup and you have an idea and you don't know where to start, you're going to connect with Jamela.

[00:07:46] And she's going to be able to guide you through the process of software architecture process, et cetera.

[00:07:53] Right.

[00:07:54] Is that something that you will do?

[00:07:55] So I have shifted a little bit.

[00:07:59] Right.

[00:07:59] I think when I first started doing these pro bono calls with founders that had an idea, I was really, really just intentional about being available in some ways to support those founders at their earliest stages.

[00:08:14] The way I've shifted my model and kind of where I'm targeting now are people that not only have an idea, but have been thinking about how to start to craft their idea themselves.

[00:08:26] AKA they've talked to their target market.

[00:08:30] They've done some discovery.

[00:08:31] They're getting like customer research points in and they're trying to figure out like, hey, I've talked to 10 or 20 people so far and this is what they're telling me.

[00:08:41] And I'm hearing all kinds of different pieces of feedback.

[00:08:45] How do I take all of this feedback and then start to build?

[00:08:49] What I found when I was initially doing this in the pro bono phase was that sometimes founders will overuse my knowledge and want to kind of bring me in a little too much.

[00:09:03] And I didn't necessarily have capacity for that.

[00:09:06] So I want to also, you know, make sure that I am working with founders who are able to really understand that like, hey, I can give you a nugget or two that you can go do.

[00:09:19] But at the heart of all of this is the discovery that you have to do.

[00:09:22] And I like for them to be at least at that place, if not even a little more further along before we start to work together.

[00:09:30] Fantastic.

[00:09:30] Fantastic.

[00:09:31] So that's a great value for many people.

[00:09:33] So many people have ideas, but they're not coders.

[00:09:35] The people really don't know where to start.

[00:09:38] Maybe they are in the discovery phase, as you were saying, client discovery.

[00:09:41] It's for the people that are listening to us, which are startups, entrepreneurs, founders, people in innovation technologies.

[00:09:50] It's the time that you go, you start with a survey.

[00:09:53] That survey never ends up being the same.

[00:09:56] What you go through the process, there's so many questions that you're going to go through.

[00:10:00] Starting, hopefully, face-to-face interactions that are kind of the best, more effective.

[00:10:05] But you're going to be asking your customer what they would like to have or what is their problem that they have.

[00:10:15] And you're going to figure it out if you have a solution for them or if the solution that you build is a solution for their problem, which is a breakthrough right there.

[00:10:26] So let me ask you about LinkedIn.

[00:10:29] Of course, there's a few things that you might not be able to share.

[00:10:32] But how was the experience to work in a company like LinkedIn?

[00:10:37] This is pre-Elon Musk, right?

[00:10:41] You said pre-Elon Musk?

[00:10:43] Yeah.

[00:10:45] Yeah.

[00:10:46] Yeah.

[00:10:46] No, I mean, I think LinkedIn has a lot.

[00:10:49] It has a fantastic solution.

[00:10:52] And I think it has a lot of people that are very much geared towards the LinkedIn mission of wanting to ensure that everyone is able to experience economic mobility.

[00:11:04] And so using the LinkedIn platform, I think what inspired me to even join LinkedIn was that I have really loved the platform itself.

[00:11:15] So when the opportunity came along, it was kind of a no-brainer, especially because I focus a lot in HR technical solutions already.

[00:11:24] And LinkedIn learning especially is such a wonderful way for people to be able to learn.

[00:11:31] But the broader LinkedIn platform of connecting recruiters with candidates and members with jobs, it's a fantastic mission.

[00:11:39] I've always been very career-focused in some ways and doing a lot of career coaching for people in my network.

[00:11:47] And so to be able to see the type of engine that LinkedIn has created was a really, really cool way to get into HR tech in a deeper capacity as well.

[00:11:59] For so many professionals, it's so hard nowadays to land on a job at one of those top tech firms.

[00:12:07] So it was an easy process just to apply online or maybe you receive an offer from the inside.

[00:12:15] How was that?

[00:12:18] Yeah.

[00:12:19] So gosh, this is a couple years ago, but someone on LinkedIn found me.

[00:12:23] They used LinkedIn and they found me.

[00:12:25] And so we started our interview process from there.

[00:12:30] And that's what I always tell people.

[00:12:32] I'm like, hey, you can send out a whole lot of, you know, resumes and applications for sure.

[00:12:39] But the best way to find a job is to make sure that your profile is optimized in a way that when recruiters are searching for someone with your skill set, you actually rise to the top of the search results.

[00:12:55] And there are different ways to make sure that you do that.

[00:12:58] So around that same time, I had actually hired someone to support me with my resume writing on LinkedIn and my LinkedIn kind of like optimization in terms of the keywords that should be on my profile.

[00:13:12] Because I don't think I'd been at SAP for at least five years at that point.

[00:13:16] And I hadn't really, you know, done a full resume sort of refresh.

[00:13:21] But I invested in that and updated my LinkedIn.

[00:13:25] And within a couple of weeks, that's when the recruiter reached out to me.

[00:13:30] So I do think that there's something to be said for making sure that your LinkedIn profile is reflective of the experience that you have and the job that you want.

[00:13:40] So that when recruiters are looking for someone with your skill set, you are in the search results.

[00:13:46] The other little tidbit that I feel like I've heard as an employee working there is that let's say you get a lot of emails.

[00:13:54] You get a lot of emails, Saul, on LinkedIn, right?

[00:13:57] So many of us do.

[00:13:59] And so, you know, sometimes you can get inundated with some of those emails.

[00:14:03] But one of the things that helps for your search results and your ranking sometimes is that you actually answer the emails that you get.

[00:14:13] And so the reason why I say that is because what LinkedIn doesn't want to do is like, hey, if you are a recruiter, you're looking to recruit for five jobs.

[00:14:22] Maybe it's five software engineering jobs, right?

[00:14:25] And so what they don't want to happen is that they are these recruiters are finding candidates in their system that they're messaging and that are not getting back to them or not responsive, not checking LinkedIn.

[00:14:37] So one of the things that I think I heard maybe while I was in the company is that, you know, a lot of emails go unanswered.

[00:14:45] Be the person that even just responds with no, not interested so that you are kind of working in an algorithm in a way that allows for them.

[00:15:00] Sorry.

[00:15:01] To show that, that you are replying, that you're active, you're recently connected, that you are actually interactive with the people, that you're not going to be a dormant user that never replies.

[00:15:14] So that will help the algorithm to find.

[00:15:15] That's a great nugget that you're sending there.

[00:15:18] Thank you so much for sharing.

[00:15:19] Just respond, say not interested, but do respond and be active.

[00:15:24] Fantastic.

[00:15:25] What I have noticed from many entrepreneurs and many people looking to get jobs is that there's so many applications.

[00:15:33] You just wait for three days and you have to find through 200 applications for one single position.

[00:15:41] So it's a very good advice what you said about helping your profile to tap into the keywords.

[00:15:48] But sometimes there's people that have so many, so much experience that the keywords might be overwhelming the algorithm.

[00:15:58] So that's pretty good.

[00:16:00] So will you give any advice to entrepreneurs now starting right now from your experience, from your actually tech experience?

[00:16:10] Do you have any advice for them to start?

[00:16:13] Take it anywhere you want.

[00:16:16] So the question is more around what are some of the things that entrepreneurs should do?

[00:16:21] Yes.

[00:16:21] What advice would you give to entrepreneurs?

[00:16:24] So this podcast is for entrepreneurs, founders, and people in tech that are working with emerging technologies.

[00:16:31] So I always look for the people that I interview to give them advice.

[00:16:38] For example, they have some problems.

[00:16:41] They have a great idea, but they don't know where to start.

[00:16:44] So you are the solution for that.

[00:16:46] The other problem that they have is that they may not have all the time in the world because they're working an eight to five job every day.

[00:16:54] Yeah.

[00:16:54] And what do you think, maybe you can come up with any advice for those entrepreneurs out there that they really want, but maybe they're afraid.

[00:17:05] What do you say to them?

[00:17:07] Yeah.

[00:17:08] So the way I got started, again, was on the side.

[00:17:11] It wasn't like, you know, the calls were pro bono, right?

[00:17:15] Like I wasn't, I wasn't even looking to monetize my skill set, to be honest with you.

[00:17:20] I just wanted to help people and I wanted to build a broader community of founders around me in case I wanted to go that route.

[00:17:28] So I would be able to kind of tap into that network.

[00:17:31] And so one of the things that I consciously kind of tell people is, you know, start before you plan to really get started, if you know what I mean.

[00:17:42] So with that, yes, people work, you know, nine to five jobs and usually you're not really done at five, right?

[00:17:49] Like being honest with you, like the jobs that I've been working, especially the last decade or so, like it is not a nine to five.

[00:17:56] It is more like a seven to eight or a seven, a 7 a.m. to a nine p.m. sometimes.

[00:18:03] Like that's just where we're at sometimes, right?

[00:18:05] But what I did do consciously was start to think about how I can be of service to other people with the skill set that I had on the weekends.

[00:18:15] So I found myself on the weekends because I was so dedicated to wanting to better understand founders with an understanding of myself,

[00:18:25] knowing that I probably will go that route, that I wanted to get to know a lot more founders and use my product management expertise as a way to support them while I also got to know more founders and how they were building.

[00:18:37] And so by that, I mean, you know, hey, I get it.

[00:18:41] You know, everyone has these crazy hours.

[00:18:44] They're working in their day jobs.

[00:18:48] But try and see how you can carve out some time, possibly on the weekends to be able to support people in that way.

[00:18:57] If it is that you're looking to get into entrepreneurship and it's not necessarily something that you have to do right away.

[00:19:05] I like to say, like, you don't have to go jump off the cliff right away.

[00:19:08] You could start to, like, ease your way into it to try and figure out, like, if this is even the right thing for you.

[00:19:15] Now, if you're already an entrepreneur and you are especially a tech entrepreneur building all the things or at least trying to,

[00:19:24] I always go back to, you know, what problem are you solving and why?

[00:19:31] And so, you know, you go with iterations as a founder of building, like, hey, you have your MVP that you may have built,

[00:19:38] whether there's real, you know, technical aspects to it or it's a little hacky and it's a spreadsheet here.

[00:19:45] And, you know, things are strewn about, you know, a couple of different programs.

[00:19:49] But you're constantly going through this development cycle, right?

[00:19:53] It's not like, hey, you just, like, press the button, you're done, MVP is launched, and then you don't really return back to the MVP.

[00:19:59] Like, you have to build after the MVP.

[00:20:01] So one of the things that I always say with entrepreneurs is that they should have a really good cadence and process

[00:20:09] for actually speaking with the users and the customers that they do have.

[00:20:14] And so when I say, when I talk about, like, someone building something while they're already, like, employed,

[00:20:21] maybe on the weekends you use that time or something of that nature to be able to talk with your users and your customers

[00:20:28] or who you believe your customers or users to be if you don't quite have them yet.

[00:20:33] Like, you don't have to just go off and just go do.

[00:20:37] Like, I think you need to be able to think about who it is that you're targeting,

[00:20:41] what their problem is, and why you believe they have that problem at all points in time.

[00:20:47] Even after you've built the first iteration of your product, you need to think, okay, so I'm getting feedback now.

[00:20:53] How do I include that and start to take that to the next level and start to, you know, iterate on that original MVP that I have?

[00:21:01] So in all aspects of everything, I always say over-index on actually talking to people

[00:21:08] and don't try and build in your own head by yourself.

[00:21:12] That's not helpful because other people need to use your solution.

[00:21:16] You should really be talking to others.

[00:21:19] 4SAN Records is proud to introduce the newest album from Valena,

[00:21:23] including the singles Cut Me to the Quick and Remedy.

[00:22:08] Valena, Save Me from Myself, available now wherever you get your music.

[00:22:13] So let me shift gears.

[00:22:19] So you were in the University of Cape Town doing your MBA.

[00:22:23] How much of that helped you on getting the positions or actually being an entrepreneur yourself

[00:22:30] or to be able to sell your services?

[00:22:33] What was the value that brought that to you?

[00:22:36] Yeah, so I've always over-indexed on trying to leave the country and go do something elsewhere.

[00:22:46] My parents are from Trinidad and Tobago.

[00:22:48] And so I spent a lot of time going to Trinidad as a child and then even as an adult.

[00:22:54] So I love to travel.

[00:22:56] And I think top of mind with the two study abroad that I've done, one was in Mexico City.

[00:23:02] The other was in Cape Town.

[00:23:04] It's always been the cultural component of, you know, how they do business in another country.

[00:23:10] And, you know, different regions are going to treat business very differently.

[00:23:13] I think when it comes to South Africa, because, you know, they're in post-apartheid, I honestly

[00:23:19] just wanted to learn, like, what does business look like in South Africa post-apartheid?

[00:23:24] And I was blessed to be able to take courses that were focused on that topic.

[00:23:31] Every country has something that is going to make it unique, right?

[00:23:36] Unfortunately, apartheid is that thing for South Africa.

[00:23:40] But it was interesting to hear not only the history of which I've read about previously,

[00:23:45] but then also to hear from people that are working in corporate.

[00:23:49] Like one of the classes had a consultant from Deloitte come in and talk to us about what

[00:23:54] it looks like to work in organizations, corporate organizations in South Africa post-apartheid and

[00:24:02] some of the laws that, and regulations, I should say, that companies have to follow in order

[00:24:09] to be in compliance post-apartheid.

[00:24:11] I would never know that if I, you know, didn't go there and hear that sort of stuff because

[00:24:16] I wouldn't even know where to find that information.

[00:24:18] And so really when I think about studying abroad and just broadening my own perspective on how

[00:24:24] business is done elsewhere, it's really coming out of curiosity, but then also coming out

[00:24:30] of an understanding that there are so many cultures across the world that are doing, you

[00:24:35] know, different types of business, right?

[00:24:37] I want to understand how other countries do business outside of America.

[00:24:43] Ultimately, when you're building solutions, like hopefully, let's say you start in one

[00:24:48] part of the region in the U.S., depending on what you're building or you build in the U.S.,

[00:24:53] and then you're thinking like, hey, this has something, this is something that could

[00:24:57] potentially scale outside of the U.S.

[00:24:59] You need to be thinking about how to build for customers that don't look like you or have

[00:25:06] your same background.

[00:25:07] And so I think even being a product manager and having as many international opportunities

[00:25:16] as I have has made me a better product manager because I'm not thinking or approaching problem

[00:25:22] solving with the lens of, hey, everyone that I'm building for acts like me or thinks like

[00:25:31] me.

[00:25:32] I'm approaching problem solving from the lens of I'm one type of user, but there are other

[00:25:39] types of people that are going to be using this product.

[00:25:42] So how do I keep the inclusiveness in mind as well?

[00:25:46] That's very important.

[00:25:48] So have you worked with the inclusiveness or with so many startups are trying to tap into

[00:25:55] the innovative and the sustainability goals, which is part of that?

[00:26:01] Are you familiar at all with all these sustainability goals or have you worked with any startup working

[00:26:06] on those?

[00:26:08] So I haven't worked with startups that are focused on sustainability.

[00:26:11] And so when I think of sustainability, I kind of think of like climate tech and green and

[00:26:17] that sort of thing.

[00:26:18] And I haven't gotten into that yet.

[00:26:20] I remember that there were quite a number of founders in Startup Cup, Startup World Cup,

[00:26:26] Miami.

[00:26:27] And I judged that competition a couple of months ago.

[00:26:32] And I think because we both live in Miami, right?

[00:26:35] Like climate change is something that is happening here for sure.

[00:26:41] And climate tech is very, very strong here as well.

[00:26:45] So it is my desire to be able to speak with more founders that are in the climate tech space.

[00:26:52] But I met a couple of fantastic ones when I was judging the Startup World Cup competition

[00:26:58] in Miami.

[00:27:00] And so that kind of piqued my interest.

[00:27:02] A lot of my experience has been in more like B2B, B2C sort of solutions.

[00:27:09] But I think climate tech is extremely important.

[00:27:14] And I know it's super important here within Miami.

[00:27:19] And I'm following the trends of how it becomes a larger conversation nationally.

[00:27:26] But then also being from Trinidad and Tobago, you know, it's one thing to be in the U.S.

[00:27:34] and be thinking about climate tech and climate change.

[00:27:37] But islands don't have the same, you know, they just don't have the same level of opportunity

[00:27:47] and time to waste, honestly, that America does when it comes to climate change.

[00:27:55] Because climate change is impacting these islands at a much bigger rate right now.

[00:28:01] And so being a child of immigrants from the Caribbean, I am interested in learning more about climate tech

[00:28:09] and some of the solutions that are out there that can really hopefully help to solve some of the issues

[00:28:17] that the islands are facing.

[00:28:21] Very good, very good.

[00:28:22] So one thing I'm very curious about this event that you talk about in Miami when you were a judge.

[00:28:29] This was an event sponsored by the government of Miami or it was a private entity who sponsored this event?

[00:28:38] Yeah. So I don't know. Are you familiar with the source?

[00:28:41] Yeah, yeah. The source Miami ran by Hillman Sori and Ted Lucas.

[00:28:48] They have an office downtown, kind of a bit of a co-working space and whatnot.

[00:28:53] But they were the ones to really bring Startup World Cup competition to Miami.

[00:28:59] But the broader lens is that Startup World Cup is a national competition.

[00:29:05] And I believe it's in like 30 different cities across the country.

[00:29:10] And so really what happened is that, you know, across the country in these 30 cities,

[00:29:15] they're all running like semifinals and then finals for the competition.

[00:29:21] And then they nominate or select one to go to the national competition.

[00:29:26] And so the founder that was selected, Sargasm, which is very much a climate tech,

[00:29:33] climate change sort of solution, was the one selected from Miami to go to the national competition.

[00:29:42] Wow. Fantastic. Fantastic.

[00:29:44] This is very good and a very good value for all the people that listen to us.

[00:29:48] Awesome. Thank you so much.

[00:29:50] So let's talk about AI.

[00:29:55] So what is your aspect on what's happening with AI?

[00:30:00] What's going to happen with AI?

[00:30:03] What's your take on that at all?

[00:30:05] Yeah. I mean, it's funny, right?

[00:30:07] A couple of years ago, I was working at LinkedIn.

[00:30:09] They had us actually using ChatGPT early before it was sent out to the masses.

[00:30:19] LinkedIn, Microsoft Connection, Microsoft and Best OpenAI.

[00:30:23] So we started coming up with use cases for using OpenAI and ChatGPT internally.

[00:30:30] So when I previewed the solution immediately, I thought like, oh, my goodness.

[00:30:35] But then when I tried to explain it to other people, it was kind of like falling on deaf ears

[00:30:39] because it's hard to explain like, hey, I typed this prompt in and a whole article comes up.

[00:30:45] You know, hey, I typed this question and I get a pretty thoughtful response back on, you know, whatever topic I'm thinking of.

[00:30:56] And so I say that because that was probably just two years ago, maybe two and a half years ago.

[00:31:03] And now you see so many AI use cases coming up and AI companies and AI technology companies that are, you know, kind of popping up trying to solve a number of different issues.

[00:31:15] My thought around AI is that it's a great tool.

[00:31:20] Everyone should be using it and getting to know it and using different solutions that support, you know, their own knowledge gaining using AI.

[00:31:29] I think everyone, especially if you're working in some sort of a corporate capacity, should be thinking about use cases for AI in technology.

[00:31:38] But then I take it even a step further and say that because there are so many different solutions available using AI today,

[00:31:47] you can honestly like make your life just a little bit simpler, easier using AI.

[00:31:53] I'm a huge proponent of people really leaning into AI with an understanding that while I don't think AI is going to eliminate jobs right off the bat,

[00:32:05] I think people need to become skill based and really smart about the skills that they are learning so that they don't experience like any sort of redundancy in their role at a later point in time.

[00:32:20] I do think AI is going to be able to automate quite a bit of things.

[00:32:27] I do think AI is going to be, it's going to continue to be helpful, especially for those that work, those of us that work in technology.

[00:32:35] But I also think that it's everyone's responsibility to figure out how they can become really skilled in whatever their subject matter is so that they're not easily replaceable using AI.

[00:32:51] So I think that there's, you know, some onus on all of us to be able to use the tools that are available to us, but also be able to do your job rather well, continue reading, continue learning,

[00:33:04] sometimes even use AI for that learning so that you're able to do your job really, really well, too.

[00:33:10] That's a great tool. Which one do you use?

[00:33:14] Oh, gosh. So, I mean, of course, I use like chat GPT, Claude for sure.

[00:33:22] So, yeah, I've pretty much stayed with those two, although I've like tested out quite a number of them.

[00:33:28] And I think it also depends on like what it is that I'm trying to get done.

[00:33:33] I mean, even if you go on Google today and ask it a question, like it has the AI part that pops up and kind of answers the question for you.

[00:33:41] So one of the things that I find to be really helpful and I because I worked at LinkedIn, I have LinkedIn Learning.

[00:33:50] And so I use some of their resources to learn about AI as well and incorporating AI into, you know, the corporate space and how other people are thinking about it.

[00:34:01] But I've also just been able to talk with more people that are really at the forefront of AI as well, working for AI centric sort of companies,

[00:34:14] whether they're founders or larger companies or employees at larger companies as well, such as OpenAI.

[00:34:21] So I think that that's the key is to just keep a pulse, right, on this AI thing for sure, while being smart about how you use it to only like just start to upskill yourself.

[00:34:35] So that's how I've been using it.

[00:34:37] Like I use it for all kinds of things for sure.

[00:34:39] I have my dad using it.

[00:34:40] Like I introduced chat GPT pretty early to my dad, you know, when it first came out.

[00:34:45] And I was like, I think you find this to be kind of fun in some ways to like use chat GPT.

[00:34:51] And he does.

[00:34:52] So he looks for he probably uses chat GPT more than I do, actually.

[00:34:58] But it's one of those things where like anyone can use it.

[00:35:01] So everyone should honestly be using it.

[00:35:05] That's right.

[00:35:05] Absolutely.

[00:35:06] So it's a pretty good tool.

[00:35:07] One thing I learned about using chat GPT very, very early as soon as they release it is that you were able to use it for free openly or with certain limitations.

[00:35:20] I mean, if you're a hardcore user, they're going to stop you.

[00:35:23] I'm fine.

[00:35:24] Try to make you pay.

[00:35:24] But I haven't been able to try Gemini, for example, the one that Gmail uses, Google uses because they're charging me.

[00:35:34] I'm a user.

[00:35:35] I'm a paid suite.

[00:35:37] I paid the suite, business suite for Google for my businesses.

[00:35:42] And I love them.

[00:35:43] I really like them.

[00:35:44] But I'm not able to use it because they're charging me for a month or they say for free but put your credit card and then I will forget for sure.

[00:35:52] So one good advice for many people developing software and tools that would like the people to try, and that's definitely what you would like, is launch something so the user try it.

[00:36:05] Even if you fail miserably, you will be able to learn and pivot pretty fast.

[00:36:10] First is let the user touch it, feel it, get the data, of course, for free, and then charge.

[00:36:19] Why nobody wants to pay $30 or $15 to try a software that they completely don't know unless you are a well-known entrepreneur that every single thing that you launch is magic and is gold.

[00:36:33] So pretty good advice for the people.

[00:36:35] Let the people use your software for free.

[00:36:38] Do you agree with that?

[00:36:41] Somewhat.

[00:36:42] I think that there needs to be an intro preview, right?

[00:36:45] Like so as you mentioned, like they'll take your credit card and then they're like cancel within 30 days or unless you're going to get charged, right?

[00:36:52] I do think that people need to be able to preview what you're building and kind of get it in their hands in order for them to feel like they're going to make the best informed decision for themselves.

[00:37:05] Where I might disagree is how you actually do that depending on what you're building.

[00:37:11] So for example, I think that if you're building software, then, you know, that's one opportunity for you to get the software in front of people and have them use it for free and then start to charge.

[00:37:25] But I do think that there's like a psychology sometimes that people have like, okay, well, it was free.

[00:37:30] So like, why would I pay now?

[00:37:32] Right.

[00:37:33] So I think that sometimes what you can do is start with something that is just really low investment.

[00:37:41] So it doesn't have to be like completely free.

[00:37:44] Maybe, you know, it's a very low price in terms of the investment to see if they would even try to use the solution or even if they think like, okay, what this person says this thing can do.

[00:37:57] I might be willing to give it a try and just see what happens.

[00:38:01] So I think that a counter strategy to that could be that instead of giving it away for free, even for two weeks or a week, the counter could be that you, you know, allow people to use the software for some nominal fee that no one's going to be like, if you're adding so much value, the value that you should be adding when you're trying to launch a product to your user,

[00:38:24] because you understand what problem you're solving for that individual, then if you're able to launch it and allow for them to pay, I don't know, $10, $20 to get access to it and to then be able to see how they interact with it and whether or not they keep it on versus, you know, just decide to like not use it any longer and cut it off.

[00:38:48] If it's a subscription model, I feel like you can play around with that model a little bit to see how it resonates with your users.

[00:38:58] Now, every sort of target user and user persona is going to be a little different, especially if it's like enterprise versus consumer.

[00:39:06] But I do think that there are opportunities for founders to charge something to see what sort of level of investment their user would actually pay for in order to get access to a solution that they think is going to support and solve their problem.

[00:39:32] So one thing that I've learned is that I would like to promote is especially in the Apple market in the when you download an app on your iPhone.

[00:39:43] They always ask, okay, immediately you pay me $10.

[00:39:46] Okay, $10 in US is no money.

[00:39:48] But in Trinidad and Tobago probably is a little bit of money in different parts of the world.

[00:39:54] Even in Panama, they use dollar or Ecuador.

[00:39:57] They use dollar, but it's still a lot of money to try something new.

[00:40:03] Yeah, the people might afford it, but it would be hard.

[00:40:06] I always like the option of, okay, pay me one time, $1, and you try for one month.

[00:40:15] And what that brings to investors is, okay, they're already generating revenue.

[00:40:20] That's very important.

[00:40:21] They already have sales, even if it's low.

[00:40:24] And you already got all the data of the people that like your product, which is the most important thing for investors,

[00:40:30] that you know the name and the last name and the email and the number of the possible customer that you're going to charge them $10 per month.

[00:40:39] I don't think people think about this.

[00:40:41] I haven't seen it.

[00:40:42] And I think it would be a pretty good idea to start making a $1 one time, no renewal, just for you to try it.

[00:40:53] Or give them a coupon that tells them, okay, put this code.

[00:40:58] The value is $5, but you can only use it once.

[00:41:01] And then you try for one month, so you don't put the credit card.

[00:41:05] Because let's put our hands in our heart and think about all the people that don't have a credit card,

[00:41:12] that they're not interested in having a credit card because they don't want to have the liability of 24% every year.

[00:41:20] And so maybe that will be something that will help the entrepreneurs to launch apps, to get data, get revenue stream, even if it's a small.

[00:41:31] What do you think about that idea?

[00:41:33] So I've seen people do that, actually.

[00:41:35] So I have seen people do like the $1 sort of investment for a very finite period of time or, you know, the other option that you mentioned.

[00:41:46] I've seen people do that.

[00:41:46] But I think that, you know, if you're building a enterprise sort of software, you can't give anything away for a dollar.

[00:41:54] Like that just is...

[00:41:56] Enterprise software is for large businesses that they can afford whatever they want.

[00:42:01] And actually, you give it for free, even for them to try it a little bit.

[00:42:05] And hopefully they get stuck into, they already have, they already put some data in, they already put some databases.

[00:42:12] And that's where you hook them, like SAP.

[00:42:15] You work in SAP.

[00:42:16] They're all over the world.

[00:42:19] All over.

[00:42:20] There's no question that they...

[00:42:22] If you want that software or not, it's like there's two, three competitors and that's it.

[00:42:27] Oracle is one.

[00:42:28] That's pretty good.

[00:42:29] So tell us a little bit more that you would like to share with entrepreneurs.

[00:42:34] Maybe some experiences, anything that you would like to share.

[00:42:40] What kind of experiences are you thinking of?

[00:42:43] So the last comment.

[00:42:45] So good advice, anything that you would like, final words for entrepreneurs and startup innovators, founders, people working in emerging tech.

[00:42:57] Yeah, I feel like I'm still not sure what the question is.

[00:43:00] No worries.

[00:43:01] So any final words before you share your contacts, where we can find you or share your details of where we can find you?

[00:43:12] Remind us what is what you do a little bit so that people remember you.

[00:43:16] Yeah, for sure.

[00:43:17] I mean, ultimately, I know the founder journey can be a little lonely, especially me being on it for the last year.

[00:43:22] I think I'm so used to working in teams and doing this solopreneurship journey.

[00:43:31] The last year has been a bit of a lonely journey because I'm like just, you know, doing a bunch of stuff and I'm working with great people.

[00:43:38] But at the end of the day, it's just me.

[00:43:40] And I know so many founders kind of get started, especially if they don't have a co-founder.

[00:43:44] And they're usually kind of like starting as just themselves, trying to figure a couple of things out and then start to like build.

[00:43:54] Right.

[00:43:54] So the advice I'd give is, again, it always surrounds people.

[00:44:00] The advice I give always seems to surround talking to other people.

[00:44:03] But this time I would say talk to a lot of other founders, surround yourself with other founders, learn from other founders.

[00:44:11] I had the opportunity to do a workshop in Miami a couple months ago.

[00:44:16] And we kind of did like a community building where someone had an idea in the audience and I walked them through the product development lifecycle.

[00:44:24] And there was a bunch of people in the audience with him and we were building it together.

[00:44:29] Right.

[00:44:29] And so that founder was then able to leave that event with an understanding of what he could do as he was building the solution and different ideas, even engineering and technical infrastructure ideas and things that he should think about as he was starting to do his own discovery and his own research.

[00:44:47] And so at the core of all of that, I think, is the founder journey can be a lonely one.

[00:44:55] Surround yourself with other founders and talk to them, talk through your problems with them and really start to create the founder community around yourself.

[00:45:06] That's going to be most helpful to you when the times get tough, because they do.

[00:45:11] It's not a linear thing of like, you know, hey, I'm going to go do this thing and it's just going to all work out the way that I think it's going to.

[00:45:19] You're going to get curveballs.

[00:45:20] You're going to probably pivot at some point or another.

[00:45:23] And so I do think that there's opportunity when you are able to be surrounded by other entrepreneurs and founders as well.

[00:45:31] Fantastic. No, the entrepreneurship is very hard and your support group are other entrepreneurs.

[00:45:38] I would like to invite you to Founder Fridays here in Miami.

[00:45:42] Next time we can meet in there.

[00:45:44] Okay.

[00:45:45] The host is really, really good.

[00:45:47] And we interview him.

[00:45:49] We can take the link and see his interview.

[00:45:53] So thank you very much.

[00:45:54] Absolutely.

[00:45:55] Jamila, please share all your, you know, how we can contact you, your website.

[00:46:02] Yes, yes, yes.

[00:46:04] So my website is jamailaholder.com.

[00:46:08] J-A-M-A-I-L-A-H-O-L-D-E-R.com.

[00:46:13] And then you can find me on linkedin.com slash in slash Jamila Holder as well.

[00:46:20] And I don't know, I may put up a TikTok or something.

[00:46:23] I don't know, I don't have a TikTok yet.

[00:46:25] People are telling me I need to get on that thing for my workshop.

[00:46:28] So we'll see.

[00:46:29] But yeah, no, I'm around.

[00:46:31] I am happy to talk to more individuals that are on their founder journey as well.

[00:46:37] And then if you're interested in learning more product management fundamentals to support your product development build cycle,

[00:46:45] then for sure reach out and we can always hop on a call and I can talk you through the workshops that I am running with founders.

[00:46:53] That also allows you to learn with me while you also learn from other founders in the group on how to not only learn product management core skills,

[00:47:04] but then also implement these core skills into your day-to-day actions as you're making decisions and building product as well.

[00:47:13] Fantastic.

[00:47:14] This is exactly many, many, this solves many problems that entrepreneurs have.

[00:47:18] So thank you so much for your time today.

[00:47:21] My pleasure.

[00:47:21] This was another episode.

[00:47:23] Thank you so much for Startup Corps.

[00:47:25] Please follow us and let's see you in the next podcast.

[00:47:31] Thank you very much.