The Final Frontier Season 1 Episode 21: The Purge 2267

[00:00:00] This podcast is brought to you by Paramount Plus and by Arete Media. Start your podcast today.

[00:00:11] The Final Frontier Podcast. These are the voyages of Jake Boger and Justin Spur. Our weekly mission to explore memories of Star Trek's strange new worlds, to recall the search for new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no one has had the spare time to go before.

[00:01:19] There are certainly parts of it. I have holes to poke, but I always have holes to poke. There are parts that I liked, but overall I can't say that this was a... I mean, it's not bad. It's not bad. It's just kinda... Now, to be fair, in the episode's defense, I realized on Wednesday...

[00:01:42] Yeah, I realized on Wednesday, I was like, oh, I need to watch this episode. And it's already like 11 o'clock at night, and I'm tired, but I won't have time on Thursday. So... And we're recording this on a Friday. Therefore, I gotta kinda like, power through this episode. But there are definitely parts, but welcome everyone, after that wonderful aside, to the Final Frontier Podcast.

[00:02:10] This week, we're talking about the episode, Return of the Archons. And Justin really liked it, because you didn't hear that part. But I didn't love or hate it. It was just kinda there for me. I... I... I... I... There were moments throughout this where I'm like, oh, this just... This is so good. I'm really digging this. Okay, I'm speaking... I'm speaking to the older part of our audience right now. Do you remember back when... You remember television? Over-the-air television?

[00:02:39] When you had to tune in to your show on a certain day at a certain time, or you would miss it? And sometimes an episode would come out, and it was just kinda like... Like, it wasn't bad. But it wasn't great. And last week was really good, and you were looking forward to it. And then you... You feel a little disappointed afterwards. You're just kinda like, ah, that... That... That was a thing, I guess. That was this episode for me. I mean... I... Yeah, I... I... It did... Look, I've been lying up to say I didn't have questions.

[00:03:10] But... Overall, yeah, I... I enjoy... I enjoyed it. We will identify the moments. There are several moments where I... I... I wrote down, I am enjoying this. And we will identify them as we go through. As they appear in the notes. Well, this is a great time, though, Justin. Should we tell them? Oh, we have to tell them. We have to... We have to tell them. We should. We should tell them. I mean, they always wanted to disclose. So we should definitely disclose. Live long and suck it, haters.

[00:03:38] Because we are officially sponsored by Paramount+. Heck, yeah, we are. We made Fetch happen. We made Fetch happen. After weeks of demanding it, they allowed it. For some reason. I don't know that we demanded, per se. We kind of were just like... Frankly, I'm kind of surprised they said yes. But I'm not gonna jinx it. So, in honor of our new partnership, Justin, would you like to do the first of many Paramount+, descriptions

[00:04:07] presented by Paramount+. I mean, obviously. So, okay. So, in this Paramount+, description, they indicate a... Presented by Paramount+. Presented by Paramount+. They indicate a seemingly peaceful group of people and their benevolent leader. In air quotes. It's in air quotes, which just kind of gives the game away. So you already know. You already know.

[00:04:33] Also, return of the Archons suggested a previous appearance. Have we seen them before? We have not. The planet has. That's what I sort of realized. And then that's it. That's the Paramount+, description, brought to you by Paramount+. Thank you, Paramount+. Thank you, Paramount+. Thank you for everything. Thank you for providing a place for me to easily watch Star Trek, the next generation. Not the next generation. The original series. I mean, all of them, really, because they're all on there.

[00:05:03] And the movies. Yeah, yeah, and the movies. And this episode of the original series takes place between Stardates 3156.2 and 3158.7. The in-universe show date is 2267 still, and the original air date was February 9th, 1967. This episode is written by Boris Sobelman and directed by our friend Joseph Pevny. We've seen his name before. Pevny. Pevny. Mr. Pevny. I get the vibe.

[00:05:33] I feel like he should be British. See, too many Pevny just gives you the vibe. He's like a mascot for like Pez. Pevny the Pez dispenser. I feel like Percy. Percy the Pev dispenser. Oh, no, Percy is better. No, yeah, no, Percy is better. Percival Pez dispenser, Esquire. P-E-Z? Pez? Pez. That makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Fun fact about this episode.

[00:06:01] This is a funny little Easter egg that, honestly, I wish there was footage of this. There probably is, but it's not available. So apparently, all the regular cast members of the show were quitting smoking at the same time while they were shooting this episode. So many of them chewed gum instead. The director, Joseph Pevny, was becoming increasingly upset because he had to cut to remind the cast not to chew gum during the shoots. As a prank for a large scene,

[00:06:29] William Shatner went around handing out bubble gum to the cast crew and 60 to 80 extras and had everyone blow a bubble right after the director hollered action. That's funny. That's funny. That feels like a William Shatner prank. It just does. That jives. I like it. I like it. I dig it. I'm just picturing Captain Kirk just like strung out like three days of quitting cold turkey like... Spock, I... What do I have to wear?

[00:06:58] Spock, I need a drag. Spock, I need to step outside. Sir, the space outside. Spock, I... Be right out. Don't care. Get me out of here. Cap on. The Klingons are attacking. Well, why don't they go attack somebody else? Just... Just... Just... Just... Just... Just... Just... Just... Kill them. Kill them all. Just kill them all. You think... Do you think they have tobacco on them?

[00:07:28] How much tobacco do they have on that planet? Oh, gosh. That reminds me... Do you remember the episode of the Orville where, uh... Boris and Clyden discover smoking? They become horribly addicted to smoking? Yes. Yes, I do. It's such a... 100 cigarettes. It turns out... Mothlins have no natural immunity to this. Oh, no. The Mothlins are simultaneously a source of great comedy and fantastic storytelling. Ah, they're just so good.

[00:07:56] I'm re-watching the Orville at night when I go to sleep and I just watched the episode where Bortus gets a mustache. Oh, yeah. This shouldn't be funny, but it is. It's hilarious. He, um... It's funny because he's shown up in a few things, the actor who plays him. Where I'm like, why do I recognize him? The number one was, uh... Shameless. He showed up on Shameless. And I was like... He was driving me crazy. And I'm like, what? Who... Why do I recognize this man? It's, uh... Peter Macon, isn't it? That's his name?

[00:08:27] So... Yeah. And... Well, you've seen Shameless, right? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. He's, um... Carl's girlfriend's police dad. No! That's him? Yeah, yeah. Wow. Wow. He's kind of like Michael Dorn in that way. Yeah, yeah. He's got... Hey, why do I recognize him? You recognize the voice, right? Yeah. He showed up in... Also, he was in... Have you seen the more recent, uh... Planet of the Apes movie? Yeah. He's in that too. He's the, uh...

[00:08:57] Uh... The monkey who believes in the true word of Caesar? The... Okay, yeah. The... Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I was like, wow, I recognize him. It's a really different inflection, but yeah. Now I can... Now I can see it. Yeah. I can see it. That movie's weird because I was like, oh, they look like them people. Oh, it's weird. Oh, the CGI's getting weird. We're hitting on Cannon Valley. Right. And then Better Man comes out and you're like, whoa. Whoa. This just looks like Planet of the... I mean, it is...

[00:09:26] It's essentially the same technology dialed up to 11 because of the demands of the film, but... Yeah. But we're not talking about Planet of the Apes. That's another podcast that doesn't exist yet. I mean, I'm sure... I'm sure there's a Planet of the Apes podcast out there, but... I'm sure. I'm sure there is. I'm sure. But would you like to know where the word Archon comes from? I'm gonna guess Arcanite, like from James and the Arcanites? No, that's Argonites with a G. Argonites. Okay, never mind. Yeah, because the ship is the Argo.

[00:09:55] Another great movie. Argo is a fantastic movie. I love it. Argo, fight yourself. It's one of my favorite ones. But the word Archon was the title of certain Greek heads of state, most famously in the Athenian Republic. It comes from the Greek root word Ark, A-R-C-H, meaning leader, highest, or chief. It can also be found... Oh, go ahead. I was going to say, so it's still Greek. Greek. Yes, it's Greek.

[00:10:25] Oh, interesting. Okay, sorry. Go on. It's Greek to me. No. It can also be found in English words, monarch, hierarchy, and anarchy, all of which are present in Landru's society. I don't know what monarchy is. I mean, well, I guess, is he the king? Emperor? Well, I guess that's monarchy.

[00:10:50] But in universe, the name comes from the ship, the USS Archon. That makes sense. Yeah. So we will know this when we get into the story. The Enterprise arrives at the planet Beta 3 in the C-111 system, where the USS Archon was reported lost nearly 100 years earlier. Lieutenant Sulu is the only member of the landing party who beams up from the planet's surface

[00:11:14] and exhibits inexplicable euphoria, as well as insisting the crew is, quote, not of the body and referring to them as Archons. Victorian Sulu looks good. Is that Victorian? I thought it was colonial. It's colonial. See, okay, my initial, and I can explain this. So I'm calling him Victorian because of the time period. My initial thought was it looked very colonial, because my note was colonial Sulu looks good.

[00:11:42] But this is, the architecture is supposed to be 19th century. So this would be 1800. So technically Victorian. Well, actually, I take that back, depending on what part of the 19th century, because I would still consider, considering the Constitution in the United States wasn't even ratified until 1789. Yeah. I would consider early 1800s still technically colonial, although I guess technically that's wrong, but it bleeds in.

[00:12:11] So I would guess this is early 1800s America based on the architecture. I got confused because, well, I might get a note for it later when we eventually see what the rest of them are wearing. But I guess I'll mention it here. Where, like, the outfit, or the, not outfits, but the style seemed to be kind of confused. Because, yeah, Sulu seemed to be wearing colonial outfits. Kirk and them have bolo ties that look like they're dressed for a Western. Right. And then some of them are wearing just regular business attire. So I was like, what is the year?

[00:12:41] But then maybe I'm like, oh, based on the reveal later, I'm like, maybe that has to do with what the computer is feeding them. It's got to, yeah. But basically what we're getting at is, and I would jokingly say that Sulu has another hobby, but it's not distinctly said. Sulu likes to go to Renaissance fairs, but we can't count it as canon. Okay. So this opening bit, I got a few notes, which is just, yeah. What is with the American Civil War outfits?

[00:13:09] Also, what, look, sorry. What the f*** is happening? He mentions finding some clue. Does he mean finding a clue? Or is clue like some kind of weird future space drug? And the hooded guys chasing them were giving Grim Reaper. They were giving Grim Reaper. Yeah, for sure. I think he meant clue. I think he meant clue in the literal sense. But in the literal sense. Also, they have outfits that they can wear for landing parties to blend in. And O'Neill is definitely dead.

[00:13:39] And is he a red shirt? No and no, actually. He is not dead. He's not dead. No. And he's not a red shirt. Also, Sulu's little monologue when he comes back. My only note on that is just, Sulu is the star of the show. Yeah, and the other note I had is, what is it with Sulu and mind-altering substances? He likes having his mind blown. What can we say? Sulu's very susceptible to mind-altering chemicals because he always just dials it up to 12.

[00:14:09] And I love it. So I was watching this and I asked, is this the Mayberry set again? Oh, I can see why you would say that. It's not, but it's close. It's actually the Gone with the Wind set. But they're on the same studio backlog. That makes sense. Yeah, that makes sense. And when I read that, I'm like, oh yeah, that makes sense. Because this Mayberry's 1960s aesthetic. Whereas this is more 19th century. So it makes sense. It makes sense, yeah. But yeah, it was funny. I was like, wow.

[00:14:37] Sometimes I'll make a note to check something. And I'm actually kind of proud of how often I'm right or at least close to hitting the mark. Yeah. There's a few in this episode that I found quite humorous. But our story continues. Work beams down with another party to investigate. They find the inhabitants living in a 19th century Earth-style culture ruled over cloaked and cowled lawgivers and a reclusive dictator, Landru.

[00:15:03] Their arrival is shortly followed by the festival, a period of violence, destruction, and aggression. Okay. So they do have outfits that they can wear when they land in landing parties. So in Tomorrow is Yesterday, why did they not put on disguises when they were trying to infiltrate the army base? To wit, this appears to be the first appearance of, and correct me if I'm wrong, the Prime Directive.

[00:15:33] It is. There's a note on that later. But yes, this is the first mention of the Prime Directive specifically. I think they hinted at it once before. One of my response to that would be they've never seemed to steer away from non-interference prior to this moment. The funny thing is, everybody who talks about the Prime Directive in this episode kind of chuckles at the fact that it's simply brought up for Kirk to break it. I mean, it sure seems that way. Well, it's okay. I agree with Kirk's justification, though. I'm not going to lie.

[00:16:03] I do agree with it in this case. Yeah. Because the culture is a result of interference. True. But just my notes are just, this seems to be the first time they've ever attempted to blend in to the point that Spock has a little headdress on to cover his ears. Which is promptly ignored later in the episode. And then you mentioned the festival. I've got several notes that it just seems like the purge. My note says, holy crap, it's the purge. And you want to know what's funny?

[00:16:32] It turns out that this episode was actually at least partially the inspiration for the purge franchise. Okay, so that's really funny that you say that. Because all the people kind of looked like being like they're old-timey, dressed in kind of an old-timey aesthetic. There's an episode of Rick and Morty where they go to a planet. And that planet is doing the purge. But they're all kind of like Amish-like people. And I was like, that's odd. That seems like a specific reference. So I'm wondering if that's a reference to this as well. It probably is.

[00:17:00] I didn't see any notes specifically tied to Rick and Morty. But that wouldn't surprise me. But yeah, that's the other note that I was like, wow. I feel smart. Right? Because my first thought was, wow, this is just the purge with dumber people. But I would have never. I thought it was. I would have never thought that the purge was actually based on this. That's what's pretty good. I looked though. So I could, I don't want to say yes, for sure it was.

[00:17:27] But I found a bunch of publications saying that it was inspired by, but I never actually saw a direct quote from the filmmaker. Because the filmmaker is quoted as talking about an incident of road rage that he went through that inspired him. But there's also articles talking about how his father described this episode to him. So in my head, I'm thinking, okay, he had that road rage incident. And then his dad was like, oh yeah, there's this episode of Star Trek with the red hour, which I have a note on that too. It's not a red hour.

[00:17:57] It's a red day. Yeah. Well, because it goes from 6 p.m. to 6 a.m. on the clock. Oh yeah. That's a day. That's a day. And then I had an early prediction for that. Because I will say, I have a solid mystery. I didn't quite know what was going on at first. I had an early prediction for what Landry I was. I honestly thought that it was going to be like, and correct me if I get this reference wrong. Apocalypse Now, where it's Orson Welles? Yeah.

[00:18:25] I was kind of, no, it's not Orson Welles. It's Robert Redford. Not Robert Redford. No, no. Oh, he showed up. Marlon Brando. Marlon Brando. Wow. We were both wrong. Yeah, it is Marlon Brando. Yeah. And he's like the insane. That's Apocalypse Now, right? Where he's gone insane. Yeah, that's Apocalypse Now. Yeah. That's what I thought this was going to be. I thought that it was going to be like, he was the captain of the Archon. See, yeah. That's what I thought. Yeah, that's what I thought too. But then it said the Archon.

[00:18:51] So my beef with this episode though, is the fact that the Enterprise is like, oh, we're going to check out this planet where a ship went missing a hundred years ago. Right? That seems like too long of a time. Maybe ten years ago would have been a better. Five, ten, a year. And there's another episode later on where that's essentially the plot where a ship went missing and then they go down to the planet. I'm not going to spoil it for you because it's a fun one.

[00:19:17] But Trekkies know what episode I'm talking about where they go down and things look really familiar and very uniform, shall we say. But the plot of that is that there was direct interference by a Federation employee, guy, dude, officer. Officer? Somebody from the Federation went down and went, you know what would be nice? This would be. Probably helped you out.

[00:19:47] And it blows up spectacularly. However, would you like to know another fun fact about this episode? Absolutely. Ben Stiller named his production company Red Hour after this episode. Oh, that is a fun fact. I did not know that. For those who don't know Stiller, Ben Stiller is a huge Star Trek fan. And actually, I almost put this note in the episode with the Gorn, but it felt really out of place. But then it comes back here.

[00:20:15] He owns one of the original Gorn heads from the costume and it's in his office. Yeah. Neat. That's neat. I find it really funny. To my knowledge, Ben Stiller's never guest starred on an episode of Star Trek before, though. Oh, I could be wrong, but I can't recall. Yeah, that seems odd to me. Even in the newer ones, he's probably too big of a name now, but I don't know. I don't know. You could get him in a cameo in one of the movies or something. Hey, if Seth MacFarlane can do it. Right? Get him on the Orville.

[00:20:46] Actually, yeah. Is he? No, he didn't do a guest spot in the Orville. No, I don't think so. Not on camera. Not on camera. He was just back there being like, do you know what I'm coming? It's like Simon Pegg in Star Trek or Star Wars, where he's just in like a costume. He's there, but you don't know it's him. Right. Like you already brought this up. This is the first episode where the landing party is deliberately disguised to blend in with the native population.

[00:21:12] The actor Carl Held, who is credited as Christopher Held, who plays Lindstrom. There's a moment when the mob is going into their, the festival, when things are starting to get violent. You can see where a softball size prop rock actually hits him in the head when they're escaping the festival crowd. But to his credit, he stays in character and keeps running so that the take is not ruined. Ah, nice.

[00:21:41] I'm guessing they must have been hard. Well, I mean, hard, hard enough. Yeah. But obviously not the consistency of a rock. It may have smarted. Professional. It may have smarted a bit. Any other notes on the festival? The description described it as peaceful and the leader as benevolent. I would not describe it as either. It was giving me real dystopia vibes. But it was in quotes. So. It was in quotes.

[00:22:09] Paramount Plus helping us out. Helping us out. Letting you know that something's afoot. It definitely was giving me weird. You know what I actually watched Idiocracy last night. Yeah. Yesterday. And it was giving me real Idiocracy vibes. A little bit. I can see that. A weird dystopia. Kirk's Landing Party seeks shelter from the mob at a boarding house owned by Ragar. A friend of Ragar suspects that the visitors are, quote, not of the body.

[00:22:37] Which means the whole of the whole of Baten society is the body. That becomes pretty clear. And summons lawgivers. When the Landing Party refuses to come with them, the lawgivers become immobile. This scene's really confusing. I mean, yeah. And there's a lot of things that happen in this scene that either don't make a lot. They make sense later. But it makes me wonder if there were. Well, no, it couldn't have been editing given how the story goes.

[00:23:06] But there's some stuff where you're just kind of expected to just go with it. And then it makes sense later. There's a lot of truth to that. No is a very powerful and magic word. And what's. Yeah, I know, Jordan. It's funny.

[00:23:33] No, but the funny thing is, is a few years ago, this is a bit of an aside, but you'll appreciate it. And I highly recommend you do this in your personal life. A few years ago, I did start. I listened to some shows and not all of it was great information. But one thing I did take away from them was the power of telling people to off. Yeah. And it got addictive, man. It's very powerful because what you what you learn.

[00:24:03] Not everybody likes him. But one of my favorite things that Jordan Peterson ever said was you can't negotiate with someone if you can't tell them to go to hell. The power of no is incredible because when you're in a position and a negotiation, coercion or otherwise, and you care enough about something or someone or you're in a position where adhering to someone's request or demand is worse than anything else.

[00:24:32] And you can just look them in the eye and say, no, I'm not doing that. Most people don't know what to do. Yeah. Yeah. You're like, no, especially if they're not used to being told no. It's it's fascinating to watch. And that's I really got a kick out of the scene because Kirk's just like, no. And they're like, they don't know what to do. No, it's like, does not compute. You know, it's funny. It's funny when you have people who come up to you and are like, I remember like people in malls.

[00:25:02] And whatnot. They always, you know, they're trying to badger. Most people ignore them. I look them in the eye and go, no, no, no. Most of most of them just kind of freeze. Because they're not doubling to the next person. Yeah. Well, but they're used to being ignored. So when you acknowledge them and say, no, they're not used to that. It's quite fun. It's quite fun. The other funny thing is the, the, uh, the lawgivers there's their Roman candlesticks. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I just wrote death.

[00:25:30] I just wrote death by Roman candle. Well, yeah. Why? That was, those things were weird. Cause Spock was like, they're fake, but I'm like, but they very definitely killed someone. So are they fake? I'm confused. Well, the best part about Spock and the Roman candlestick is he looked, he's got it. And he looks right in the barrel. Right. And I'm just like, Spock, don't look in the barrel. Where Sulu, when you named Sulu could have been like, don't look in the barrel. You don't know if it's loaded because Sulu appreciates gun safety.

[00:26:03] Except he doesn't. But never point the gun in a thing you don't want to kill. Never look, never look into the barrel of the gun either. That's, that's, that's not a good. Gun safety 101. I don't know that there's one step in gun safety. That's by far more important than all the others, but it's up there. If there's a short, if there's a short list of things to never do with a gun, it's, it's on that list. Don't, don't look down the barrel unless you're cleaning it and you have that piece separated and you've checked to make sure.

[00:26:33] And even then it's probably not a good idea. Right. Right. Yeah. It's just, it's, it's not a good look, especially afterward. This is also the time that I noticed they, they went to the trouble of giving Spock the hood thing. Yeah. The shawl. And in this scene, he's just got his ears out. Nobody cares. Nobody. He kind of stops using it towards the end. Yeah. When nobody, nobody notices, nobody cares. Now in story, this does make sense. Yeah. Because everybody's, everybody's all.

[00:27:03] Zonked out. Yeah. So the fact that somebody has got 40 years, wouldn't even register to them. No, no. Well, I think he stops when it becomes apparent that they don't care. John Normer, who plays Tamar, Tamar, the, the older, the older fellow who gets Roman candled. But this actor previously appeared as Dr. Theodore Haskins, who you won't remember because I don't think he's ever mentioned by name.

[00:27:27] Uh, the shipwrecked captain from The Cage, the pilot episode, who ended up being an illusion, but, uh, and would make a, and will make a third appearance as an unnamed old man in the episode. For the world is hollow and I have touched the sky. Rhaegar leads the Enterprise landing team to a hiding place. En route, a telepathic command causes the townspeople to attack the landing party. When that happened, I was like, whoa, that's actually terrifying. Horrifying. That's a legitimately scary shot.

[00:27:57] Not gonna lie. That's horrifying. When he fired the, this, the, the, the stun, I was like, I just have a note that's just rad. That's pretty cool. That was pretty cool. And then, uh, yeah, I was like, oh, so that's what it looks like when someone gets stunned. Yeah. Because I don't think we've ever seen someone get stunned yet. No, I think we have. Have we? Have we seen someone, have we seen them use the, the phasers on stun? I think so. Not, not that wide berth, but that's coming.

[00:28:24] Because this is just when they have that real Night of the Living Dead shot. Yeah. Something happened whenever it was just. That was really cool. It's like one step away from Emotep. It was cool. I liked it. I was like, this is neat. I'm enjoying this. Well, Justin, we're going to take a break from the levity to tell our viewers about a very, very special sponsor. Who sponsored that?

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[00:32:37] It's fantastic. It really is. It's Paramount. Paramount Plus. It's Paramount. It's Paramount that you sign up. It's Paramount that you sign up. Anyway. Paramount Plus. Anyway. Thank you, Paramount Plus, for sponsoring this podcast. We greatly appreciate it. We love you. We loved you before you sponsored us. So you know it's legit, because we talked about Paramount Plus well before this episode. So you know. You know it's legit. We're both subscribers, obviously, because we use it to watch the shows that we talk about. It's absolutely true.

[00:33:07] But we will get back to our show. And then after this show, you're going to click that link and sign up for Paramount Plus, aren't you? You know you are. You know you are. You're gonna. You're gonna. I trust you guys. I trust you guys. It's right there. It's right there. Just click it. It's in the description. It's right there. It's right there. It's below me, I assume. It's somewhere down there. Anyway, back to the show. The landing party stuns the attackers with their phasers and find Lieutenant O'Neil, the other member of the original landing party, among them.

[00:33:37] They take O'Neil with them, but keep him sedated on Rhaegar's advice. Rhaegar reveals that Landru pulled the Archons down from the skies. Contacting the ship, Kirk learns that heat beams from the planet are attacking the Enterprise, which must use all its power for its shields. Its orbit is deteriorating, and it will crash in 12 hours unless the beams are turned off. Oh, Tiki Clock. Yeah, one that's not really necessary, I might add. But, I mean, it adds an element.

[00:34:05] But one of many firsts in this episode, this is also the first time that Scotty is shown to be in command when Kirk and Spock are off the ship. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Which I gotta say, Scotty knows what he's doing. Scotty does eventually reach the rank of captain, by the way. Oh, yeah, he does, doesn't he? Yeah, I knew that. He shows up in Generations. Yep, Star Trek Generations.

[00:34:30] Captain Scotty completely designed the new Enterprise, so the Enterprise B. Oh, interesting. Yeah. So you get to see Captain Scotty in the film Star Trek Generations. Captain Scotty. A projection of Landru appears in the hiding place, and Kirk and his team are rendered unconscious by hypersonic waves. The landing party is imprisoned in a dungeon.

[00:34:55] Dr. McCoy is absorbed into the body, or, in normal people vernacular, placed under Landru's mental control. But Marplon, a member of the underground against Landru, rescues Kirk and Spock. And we get treated to another doofus William Shatner look when he's playing the... It's not... Nothing takes... The look he makes in The Conscience of the King just takes the cake. I mean, yeah, that was good.

[00:35:25] This one's pretty... I mean, okay. The Hive Mind was very definitely... They were going for a Hive Mind thing. And also, there's another Rick and Morty episode called Unity. Similar idea. Yeah. And then, yeah, them getting rescued by the guy. Well, that's convenient. I thought it was a pretty good twist. What a twist! I thought a solid swerve with the third guy being the converter in the underground. I mean, yeah, yeah. Like I say, I said, seriously, this episode's really good. It's firing on all cylinders. I did just think... I was like, that's a great place to have a guy in the underground.

[00:35:55] The guy that converts people. Right. Right. It's a really good stopgap. Although, it makes you wonder why he converts anyone in the first place. Like, why would he convert Dr. McCoy? I... Yeah. Why did... No, he switched. When Dr. McCoy was the previous guy. When he came in, there was the guy... Oh, okay. There's another guy. That makes sense. There's another guy, yeah. He took over for him. Gotcha. That makes sense. That's right. Yeah. I can't believe... I watched that happen and forgot about it.

[00:36:22] Did somebody put me in front of a thing and scramble my brain? I mean, hey, to be fair, I just watched this today, so... Hello, friend. Do you watch Paramount Plus? I signed up for Paramount Plus. You should, too. It will bring you much happiness. I think I had another one that earlier, which is... Oh, yeah. Their language must be different when they're like... The gentle treatment of... I'm like, I think we have a different definition of gentle. Maybe they're using genteel?

[00:36:52] Maybe. Maybe. Like, in this sense, obviously, they're using the word gentle, but like... The gentle and the phrase gentle man, for example. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Fair, fair, fair, fair. Because they were like, you'll be treated gently. I'm like, it feels like maybe they won't be treated gently. Yeah, they are roughed up a little bit from time to time. Right? Before Landry makes them all go unconscious, doesn't he say something to that effect? It's like, you will be treated well. Yeah.

[00:37:20] It's like, but I'm going to rupture your eardrums and cause you to black out first. Yeah, right? I feel like when you're like, we're going to treat you gently, I feel like... I don't know. I just feel like we maybe have different definitions. I don't know. Maybe that's just me. Maybe that's just me. It could just be me. Rhaegar and Marplan tell Kirk and Spock how Landry saved their society from war and anarchy 6,000 years ago and reduced the planet's technology to a simpler level. Overhearing their whispered plans, McCoy summons the lawgivers.

[00:37:48] I'm always very wary, and we should all be wary of people that claim that it was quote unquote better back in the day. So we should just not use technology. Right? Spoiler alert. It was not better back in the day. Back in the day kind of sucked. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You always learn that. You learn that from however much stuff sucks now, it sucked way worse back then. Sucked way worse. Like, I constantly remind people to say that. It's like, yeah, it was really great when you didn't have antibiotics.

[00:38:18] Right? That's fun. The black stuff. Yeah. It's like, yeah, when you get a cut, it's a 50-50 shot of whether it's going to kill you or not. Right? That was great. That was fun. You know how you can put, like, medicine or take medicine? Yeah. Ointments. You know when people used to die of dysentery? People used to die of dysentery. And it was everywhere. It was the single greatest killer in times of war until, I believe, the First World War. Yeah, that makes sense. It was certainly the case.

[00:38:49] Dysentery, I still think, had the highest mortality claim of the American Civil War before. And I think second was infection. That also doesn't surprise me. No, I'm not sure which one took the lead, but I think dysentery was number one. Hey, it's the reason why it kills you all the time in the Oregon Trail. It's going to get you in that game. There's a reason for that, yeah. For all you kids who don't know. Kids don't play the Oregon Trail. Kids play the... Who's not out there on a Friday night?

[00:39:17] They play the new souped-up version with animations and graphics and 4K nonsense. Makes it out. It's a real, real difficult game. It's very hard. I mean, it's not that hard. All my characters died of dysentery. No, see, the Oregon Trail's not that hard. See, what you do is you just don't make stupid decisions. Don't cross deep rivers. Pay for the ferry. Always pay for the ferry. Always pay for the ferry.

[00:39:47] You won't make it. You're going to save a few dollars. Your family's going to die. Pay for the ferry. Pay for the ferry. And don't shoot all the food. Get what you need because when you go hunting later, it won't be there. Shoot one buffalo and you're set. You're good. Exactly. Keep them kids healthy and fed. It'll work for you. Yeah. Keep them kids healthy and fed, but you don't need to shoot eight buffalo and everything that moves. Right. I know it's fun. It's not that kind of game. It's not that kind of game.

[00:40:17] If you want that kind of game, there's several deer hunting games that you can play. I did laugh, though, when they're talking and then McCoy sees that they're talking and then they just walk six feet the other direction. They're like, okay, now we have perfect secrecy. He's like, are you guys conspiring? No, buddy. No, we're not. Yeah, blah, blah, whatever bullshit you're doing. Yeah, we're not. We're not conspiring. Yeah, we're totally conspiring.

[00:40:46] Just over here a few extra feet over to the leg. We're just going to go over here and whisper even more conspicuously. I mean, DeForest Kelly as a totally mind whammy McCoy was very fun. It was. Kirk is trying to convince him. It was very, very funny. And then, yeah, just the judo chop and the straight cross. I love when Spock does a straight cross and Kirk is like, wow, that's real old fashioned. That's a phenomenal line.

[00:41:15] In fact, so that's the next part of the story is Kirk and Spock subdue them and don their robes. Marplan takes Kirk and Spock to the Hall of Audiences where the priests commune with Landry. And then I just love, like, I'm going to touch on what you said. So in the dungeon when Kirk and Spock are subduing Landry's guard, Spock punches the guard in the face with his fist instead of using the Vulcan nerve pinch. And the fact that Kirk even commented isn't that old fashioned. This is the first time Spock has ever hit someone with his fist.

[00:41:44] It's a straight cross. Bam! Just right to the face. Which... Pow, right in the kisser. Given what we've learned of Vulcan's strength, though, that would certainly break the person's jaw. And then had you broken his jaw. I mean... I mean... Judo chop. Judo chop. Yeah, you got it. I just watched the third Austin Powers movie. It just made me think of that. It was like, judo chop! Incidentally, I think the third Austin Powers is the best one. Michael Caine is amazing in that movie. He's genuinely very funny. It's the worst one. The second one's the best one.

[00:42:14] Ooh, that's hard to disagree with. I really like the second one. I just... I watched the first one. I watched the first one recently and I was like, oh, I just... This isn't as good as I remember. So I had a much better time watching it than I did the first one. I did... I'm always... I'm always really partial to jokes that are oddly specific. And just the fact that... Clearly, Mike Myers has something against the Dutch. Or at least Michael Caine does. Right? Yeah.

[00:42:43] I don't know why I love the line so much. He's like, besides, they share a border with the Dutch. There's only two kinds of people I can't stand in this world. People who are intolerant on people based on who they are, where they're from. And the Dutch. And the Dutch. It's just... He's got so many... This is my favorite. Do you know how many nameless guards I've defeated over the years? You have no chance. Just... Just lie down. There you go. There you go.

[00:43:12] It just made me think of Star Trek. And I was like... Just Captain Kirk being like, do you know how many nameless aliens I've taken down over the years? Just fall down. Who thought of Gorn? I thought of Gorn. I thought of Gorn. Are you a Gorn? You're not a Gorn. Get out of here. Yes. Kirk has faced a very staggering amount of aliens. He's fought them with his bare hands at times. Other times he's used a phaser. There's an episode where he uses this weird... So remember the shirtless stick fighting?

[00:43:42] I recall the shirtless stick fighting, yes. So there's an episode in season two, which I believe is the first one, where he has the same stick, but it's got a blade on one side. And he is... No, he's not shirtless. But he does... His shirt gets ripped. So that happens. He's two-thirds of the way there. Something that we've done countless times, though, is we've started podcasts. This is... I think this is podcast number 11 or 12? No, I think it might be 10. It's up there.

[00:44:10] We've made a few podcasts over the years. Thanks to our friends at Arte Media. So I ask you, do you have an idea for a podcast? Because if you do, Arte Media can help you. Even if you've done podcasting or content creation before and just want to be part of the group, or if you've never done any of this before and have no idea what you're doing, we can help you from start to finish. Justin, is that a true statement? Absolutely, yes.

[00:44:37] From start to finish, step by step, they will provide you with all the tools and resources to start your own podcast. Literally, there's a playlist of YouTube videos where from the name to the logo to how to make short-form content, long-form content, and also just there's a support network of people who... I mean, we all just want to see each other grow and get bigger and better and get sweet, sweet Paramount Plus sponsorships.

[00:45:07] Boom! Double sponsored. And they don't conflict with each other because we also teach you how to... Pick your sponsors to make sure that you don't have any unfortunate instances looking at you, AEW. Looking at you, AEW. For those that know, you know. Don't have a guy use a pizza slicer in a match and then cut to a Domino's commercial. It's a bad scene. It's a bad image. It's not good. Don't do it. Don't do it. And we don't do that. We do not. We do not. We do not.

[00:45:36] We would never do such a thing. But what we can do, like I said, is help you start a podcast. So click that second link in the description. Send an email directly to me, Jake, owner, CEO, president of RSA Media, and we will help you get your podcast off the ground as soon as you send that email. But now, back to Star Trek. A projection of Landrieu appears and threatens them. Kirk and Spock use their phasers to blast through the wall and expose a computer programmed

[00:46:03] by Landrieu, who died 6,000 years ago. The computer neutralizes their phasers. Kirk and Spock argue with the computer that because it has destroyed the creativity of the people by disallowing their free will, it is evil and should self-destruct, freeing the people of Beta 3. The computer complies. The heat beams stop and the Enterprise is saved. Kirk agrees to leave Federation advisors and educators on the planet to help reform the civilization.

[00:46:32] So, so I just, when it comes to Landrieu, number one, set work on this episode. Phenomenal. It is. It's really good. It's really good. And then I had a series of guesses that, is Landrieu going to be an AI? Which it turned out to be. It turned out to be. Did AI exist in the 1960s? It did as a, as a concept. Like a science fiction concept. Well, I mean robots, you know, autonomous robots. True. True. Yeah. AI is not new kids.

[00:47:01] And in fact, the AI we have today isn't technically AI. No, not in the way. It's just learning. It's just learning engine software. That's it. It's not AI as. Like in, in this episode, it's truly AI. It is intelligent. Yeah. It's just artificial. It was made by humans. That's it. That's it. Humanoids. It's made by humanoids. And then, uh, you fascinating that Star Trek, Star Trek of all things is arguing that AI cannot be creative because it has no soul.

[00:47:31] An argument that we are still having today in 2025, which I thought is kind of interesting. Well, here's the ironic part is, is I think that's true, but it theoretically could because actually the Orville to sing its prices again, does this really well with Isaac. So Isaac is an artificial being. He is essentially a very, very sophisticated computer. And yet as the series progresses, I mean, he doesn't get a soul or anything, but like

[00:48:00] he, he does become more, I dare say emotional, but in, in the capacity that a, that a machine could be it's, it's genuine though, because he does eventually spoiler alert from the Orville. He does eventually marry Dr. Claire Finn. And he does. Yeah. I rewatched that episode recently to watch, watch it last night. I'm sorry. I just gotta say, I love the bit where he, he's, he's, he and Dr. Finn have already, you know, slept together.

[00:48:29] So now he's like, now I need to terminate the coupling. So the bit where he's in a wife beater and tidy white. He shows up the wife beater. Yeah. That was very funny. And then she's like, I thought we were going to have dessert. He's like the last thing you need. Um, and then, then you mentioned already a Kirk. Kirk, Kirk talked that computer into killing itself. Yeah. Or have you read or seen Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy? I have seen it.

[00:48:59] I started to read it, but I did not, but I'm familiar, I'm familiar with it. Do you know the bit where I think it's Marvin, the depressed robot talks the computer into killing itself? He gets so, yeah, that's what this makes me think of. Kirk, Kirk is like, and then, and then just Kirk utterly destroyed and dismantled these people's entire society to being. And he's just kind of like, well, good luck. I mean, he ultimately did, and he helped them at the end. But just when he turns to the guy, he's like, well, this is your problem now.

[00:49:28] Bye. It's like, well, here's, here are the ashes. Do with him what you will. We've completely disrupted and dismantled your entire society. The very thing we weren't supposed to do. Because like, I would argue that society was functioning perfectly fine. Like, I disagree. It does bring up a really interesting, you know, ethical question though, is because there are some people who would say like, listen, there's, there's no, I mean, there is violence

[00:49:55] though, because of the festival, but that's kind of out of place. But it's like, is a society really peaceful if everybody's mentally forced to complain? It's the clockwork orange sort of question. So the festival, is it like, that's just like the computer resetting and like releasing control? I couldn't tell if it was that or if it was just the computer. See, I would have liked a little bit more of an explanation on that.

[00:50:20] I'm not sure if it's that or if it's the computer just not being able to control people all the time. And then it just, it gives them a period to let it all out. Yeah, I get it. It's just like, why is the, once they're free, their instant reaction is to, uh, to, yeah, freak out. Like, I don't know. And apparently this only happens outdoors. So I'm guessing it's, it's, it's instigated by the computer because apparently if you're

[00:50:48] indoor, if you're indoors, allegedly you're fine. Then my other question is how, if this is, if it has been subjugating this people for a man, we're, we're, we're spiraling, but if it's been subjugating a people for a hundred years, how did you wind up with people who are resistant to it? If it like that, it not being a person kind of made it fall apart a little bit. Like I think it would have been more sense if it was a person or being utilizing like

[00:51:15] a fascist dystopian control as opposed to it's just a machine. Like why then, how, how did there wind up three specific guys who were not in its control? How did that happen? That seems like an oversight. See, I think this goes into the title though. So the way I understand it is Landrieu, the person came 6,000 years prior and basically re retweaked the society, got them away from violence and all that.

[00:51:42] And then the USS Archon comes and gets some people released from it because they probably, now they did break the prime directive. Absolutely. They did. Yeah. But I don't know, maybe they busted some people out and then it's just an underground movement that's continued for the past hundred years. That's my guess. Yeah. It's not really, it's not really thought out. Yeah. A hundred years, like movies and televisions tend to do this thing where they don't realize

[00:52:11] that like a hundred years is a long time. I would have, again, far be it for me to criticize a decades old show, but I would maybe tighten up the time to like 10 years. Maybe it would have been a tad more believable for me. Yeah. Because to put this into perspective, the civil war and the beginning of the civil war and the Kennedy assassination are approximately a hundred years apart. Yeah. Okay. Well, okay. A good example. I, I, in media, I would use, we talked about.

[00:52:40] Have you seen the Lorax? I have not. It's documented. I'm not a fan of Dr. Seuss. Okay. Well, okay. In that movie, the basic premise of it is a lot of the people have forgotten what trees are, but there's a character who is like an adult, like an adult. So within the confines of a society, the society are too like close to the existence of trees to not know what trees are. That's what this is for me. Like a hundred years. Yeah.

[00:53:09] You would still, you wouldn't be this removed from like basic or, or like, how are they breeding? I guess maybe, or is the computer breeding them or like, yeah, that's a good question. But like, I, I guess here's, here's to kind of prove your point. It's not quite a hundred years, but it's close. So the second world war is 80, 80 years ago. The end of it. Yeah. 80 years ago. Yeah. Like you'd have a cultural memory of this stuff. That's a big.

[00:53:39] Oh, we very much have a cultural memory of it. Like this is, this is not fading into the obscurity. If anything, it's, we're finding out more and more as various things become uncovered and or declassified. So like, it's still, we're still very aware of those events of 80 years ago. So exactly. I mean, to be fair though, this seems to be a not media driven society. So maybe that's why I don't know. They're definitely a religiously motivated society. Yeah.

[00:54:08] And they don't have the benefit of technology like television or digital storage or any of that. Even, even, even, you know, like optical media, they don't, they don't have physical media of any kind. So yeah, that's true. I guess. Yeah. If you don't talk about it or write it down, it will be forgotten very, very quickly. Yeah. But yeah, I, I don't know. I, I, I didn't, I, I guess if this is where we're introducing the prime directive mucking with people, societies, I guess this is where this becomes a moral and, and a moral quandary.

[00:54:37] But for me, I'm like, I don't know, but I think I had an, I have a note. The enterprise just kind of seems like the bad guys here. I mean, in this case, no, because they're, they're resting control. These people are being controlled. Like they do not have free will and they're not artificial life forms. So you can't even make the choice that it's like, well, that's how they choose to be. But it's not like the, it's not like the Federation interfered in the first place though. So it's a great area.

[00:55:04] I will say that the, the ending scene feels and add added on in retrospect to have them be like, yeah, these people don't seem like they're going to be okay. Because literally the, they, they have no, they, they have no frame of like what to do with themselves now that they're not being influenced by this computer. Although I guess maybe they want, that's the case of having the conversion machine. Like maybe you're not born converted. Maybe I guess is supposed to be the implication. Maybe. No, that's dad.

[00:55:32] That's the implication that I got for sure. But you have to be assimilated when you become it. I guess. Yeah. More, more of the resistance, I guess. Maybe. I liked it overall, but there's definitely holes. There's definitely holes to be had to be found. Well, the, to, to bring up the Orville again, uh, the Mothlands serve a much better vehicle for this sort of metaphor in that series, because on the one hand you have, they have a similar version of the prime directive. Yeah.

[00:56:01] Um, but they also have a concept of, you know, you, you respect or tolerate other cultures and the Mothlands are a patriarchal, like criminally patriarchal society where they don't even like they would just rather not have females at all. Yeah. Like not keep them subjugated. They just don't want them period. And it, it comes to a head like several times throughout the series.

[00:56:27] And you, you get to, uh, several times you get to a point where, you know, having a legitimate debate of like, okay, at what point though, are we tolerating something that we can't like, at what point does this become intolerable? Yeah. Yeah. You know, where, where's the, where's the line, where does the line of respecting another culture end? Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And it's done really well in the order. It really is. And yeah, she's here.

[00:56:57] It's just like, I get what they were going for. Yeah. I just, I, I ultimately, I, I ultimately was highly entertained, but I, I, yeah, holes, there were holes. There were some holes. There are definitely some holes, but you may be wondering whatever happened to, you know, Landru and the people of beta three, it is actually revealed in an episode of lower decks entitled no small parts that debuted in 2020.

[00:57:24] And it was broadcast 53 years after this episode. Really? Yeah. So apparently we find, we find out what happens to Landru and the gang. I thought, I thought he got blown up or destroyed. Did he not get destroyed and dismantled at the end of this? Was that not the resolution? It looks like they retconned it. Oh, what's the retcon? I don't know. I haven't seen that episode yet. Oh, I have fair. I thought you were going to get it. It turns out that he's, he's surrounded by a bevy of computer robot women.

[00:57:52] Well, I mean, if you can, you can repair a computer. True. That is true. It just makes a bunch of hot androids. Cause we haven't seen that before. Right. I'm thinking it's going to end up being like Knight Rider where it's a, it's a, it's like a spaceship, but it's controlled by Landru. Oh, turns himself into a car. It's like, I wanted to get around. Ah, yes. Well, any other notes on return of the archons?

[00:58:20] Uh, no, uh, that's no, that's it. I don't got anything else. Like I said, it's not my favorite episode. It was certainly not bad. I do enjoy ethical, ethical dilemmas though. So that, that was fun. That was fun for me. So are we, are we getting a dress up like every episode now, or like every time they go to a new plant, they're going to have a new outfit now? I totally, I totally thought about it. I don't, we'll, we'll figure it out. Kind of felt like we should have, but we don't have those clothes.

[00:58:48] So I meant, I meant on the show, are they going to now return? Oh, not us. Okay. Um, they do it more often. Yes. Oh, interesting. Oh, I just realized the episode I was talking about has a problem. It's a very uncomfortable moment because of how they have to dress. If you know, you know, but we'll get there. We'll get there. Next week. Oh, what's interesting. I was just going to say, oh, the fact that they have, I wonder if that's just because the cast got bored of wearing the same uniform every single, I wonder what the reason behind that will be.

[00:59:18] Yeah, probably. Although this is the second part of season one. So maybe they got a budget increase for, but it makes sense. Like you, you wouldn't want to go down to a strange planet in this. No. Well, yeah, that's why in the previous episode, I was like, surely they've got like military like, it just makes Dr. Who makes me think of the TARDIS. He's always got clothes on the TARDIS. Like you think like, yeah, they have like a closet for like, yeah. So that's why they can like, we blend in now. They can reconstitute clothing so they can, they can make whatever they need. That's what I'm saying.

[00:59:48] Yeah. Makes sense. Next week, we're going to watch one of the most beloved episodes of Star Trek, the original series and the Genesis pun intended. Well, actually pun unintended, but happy accident. So I'm claiming it. The Genesis of technically two of the most beloved Star Trek films ever made. Certainly one. Absolutely one. And, but it leads into the other one.

[01:00:16] So we're going to be talking about the episode space seed. Justin. Space seed. Would you like to take a stab? Well, based on your lead in, I'm guessing, I'm guessing it's con. It is con. It is con. That's so funny. I didn't think he was so soon. I thought he was season two. I didn't realize. I did too. I didn't remember him being in season one. And what's really funny, we'll touch on this much more when we talk about this episode.

[01:00:45] This episode was a one-off. Yeah. Yeah. I know him coming back. Yeah. It was a literal one-off. And then, and then he comes back with a vengeance in Star Trek to the wrath of con, which is. Oh, it's so good. Like that's going to be a really long episode. And when we talk about wrath of con, I'm still not sure what we're going to do with the movie episodes. Cause they're going to be shorter seasons and I can't decide. I don't want to break them up into parts. Fair.

[01:01:14] So I think, I think it'll just be a shorter season, but like maybe we debut every two weeks instead of every week. I don't know. We'll figure it out. Or we just film them all in advance and release them. Cause those are going to be long edits, but we're, we're going to get there, but we got, we got three seasons of the original series and then two seasons of the animated series before we get to the movies. Wait, really? The animated series has two seasons. That I did not know. I thought it was only one season that, that I did not know. It's two seasons.

[01:01:44] How interesting. I believe they're shorter episodes though. So those should be. I don't know. Some of this is going to get wild. Some of it's going to get wild real fast. Yeah. Go off those rails. Yeah. But next week's going to be great. We're going to talk about space seed. I honestly don't think we'll have too much funny stuff to talk about. It's probably going to be a real, like this episode's awesome sort of thing. Carl Maltopon is so good. And then I say that. And then there's no, there's moments. We're going to have fun with it.

[01:02:13] Well, there's, there's an instance where Kirk gets a crew member's name wrong. And it's, it's, it's pretty funny. That's funny. What's her name? McGivers. And then Spock's just like Lieutenant McGivers. I bet she doesn't give her. To Khan. Yes. Anyway, join us next week on the final frontier podcast. When we go over space seed and. Khan. Khan. If you think for a second, that's not going to be a running gag. Oh, obviously. You're wrong.

[01:02:43] Live long and subscribe. Watch long. And prosper. Watch long and prosper. Watch long and subscribe. And subscribe to Paramount plus. And, and, and yeah. Yeah. What first link in the description.