Don't Go in the Water (ft. Marcel Jeannin)

[00:00:01] The most thrilling, spikingly series ever!

[00:00:05] From the pages of Ariel Stein's best-selling books,

[00:00:08] and the screens go on forever and ever.

[00:00:13] We now return to Goosebumps.

[00:01:05] Greetings Goosebumps fans, young and old, big and small, living dead and undead.

[00:01:10] Welcome back to the Goosebumps Crew Podcast.

[00:01:12] As always, I'm your host Isaiah Vargas, and I'm joined by my good buddy Nick Shaw.

[00:01:15] Unfortunately, Bjorn Palenik was unable to join us today due to a medical emergency.

[00:01:20] But either way, we are still going to talk some Goosebumps today.

[00:01:23] And, you know, little things in between.

[00:01:26] We'll talk about that in just a second.

[00:01:27] But first, if it's your first time, as always, joining us on the Goosebumps Crew Podcast,

[00:01:31] I want to sincerely welcome you all.

[00:01:32] If you are or have ever been a fan of the popular Goosebumps series of books

[00:01:35] or the monster franchise that they spawned,

[00:01:37] I have a feeling this podcast is going to be right up your alley

[00:01:39] because as I always say, me, Bjorn, and Nick,

[00:01:41] some of the biggest Goosebumps nerds on the whole planet,

[00:01:43] we could talk about Goosebumps for hours on end.

[00:01:45] And that's exactly what we do here on this podcast.

[00:01:47] Every week, we have a brand new episode talking about everything Goosebumps,

[00:01:50] whether it be the books, movies, TV shows, video games, merchandise,

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[00:01:55] We're going to talk about it so much that you're going to be sick of hearing about Goosebumps

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[00:02:47] So welcome back to a brand new episode.

[00:02:49] And as I said, we talk about everything Goosebumps here on this podcast,

[00:02:52] but sometimes we got to shake things up a little bit.

[00:02:55] You know, we can't always talk about Goosebumps.

[00:02:58] I know we boast about it.

[00:03:00] So today we're going to be doing something a little different.

[00:03:02] We're doing another episode revisit,

[00:03:04] but this time it's not an episode of Goosebumps, the TV show.

[00:03:07] We're actually going to Are You Afraid of the Dark?

[00:03:10] The other very popular horror anthology show from the 1990s.

[00:03:15] It aired on Nickelodeon from 1992 to 2000.

[00:03:19] It's grown a huge cult following.

[00:03:21] And whenever somebody thinks about horror anthology in the 90s,

[00:03:24] it's either Goosebumps or Are You Afraid of the Dark?

[00:03:26] And today we are talking about one of the most iconic episodes from that series,

[00:03:30] The Tale of the Dead Man's Float.

[00:03:32] And joining us today, we have a very special guest.

[00:03:35] He played the pool monster that gave a generation of 90s kids nightmares for weeks, months, and maybe even years.

[00:03:43] Marcel, Janine, thank you so much for joining us today.

[00:03:46] I think it's safe to say he's the other reason people won't go into the water besides Jaws.

[00:03:50] Besides Jaws.

[00:03:52] Marcel, it is very awesome to have you here today.

[00:03:55] Thank you for joining us and welcome to be here.

[00:03:57] Absolutely.

[00:03:57] We're glad to have you.

[00:03:58] As I've said, we're going to be talking about The Tale of the Dead Man's Float, one of the most iconic episodes from that show.

[00:04:04] It premiered on October 7, 1992.

[00:04:06] It was written by Will Dixon and directed by DJ McHale, the series creator.

[00:04:11] And it's become one of the most infamous episodes of the show,

[00:04:15] mainly due to the horrifying monster that is in that episode.

[00:04:20] But we'll get to that in just a second.

[00:04:21] But first, Marcel, as I said, we're glad to have you.

[00:04:25] But before we talk about the episode, can you tell us a little bit about yourself and your acting career?

[00:04:31] I'm based in Montreal in Canada.

[00:04:34] I've been doing it for 35 years, mostly theater and voice work and video games.

[00:04:43] But, you know, there was a spate in the 90s where things were really busy here.

[00:04:46] And, you know, it was a hub for programming for young adults.

[00:04:50] So we did Are You Afraid of the Dark, a show called Space Cases that was on for a few years,

[00:04:55] and recorded episodes of Arthur and things like that.

[00:05:00] Absolutely.

[00:05:00] And what would you say has been your favorite role to do if you had to choose one?

[00:05:06] Oh, God.

[00:05:07] Well, mainly I get better parts in theater.

[00:05:10] So, you know, they're Shakespeare and Chekhov in theater.

[00:05:16] In television, you know, these shows were wonderful.

[00:05:21] They were a lot of fun to do.

[00:05:23] The people were great, you know, and I met some people on them that, you know, are friends to this day.

[00:05:28] So it's tough to say.

[00:05:29] I can't really play favorites.

[00:05:31] Absolutely.

[00:05:32] Well, I mean, hey, if you have a ton of roles that you like that you can't even choose one,

[00:05:36] I mean, that's the mark of a really good career.

[00:05:39] So I applaud you.

[00:05:43] But we're going to talk about, as I said, Tale of the Deadman's Flow.

[00:05:47] It's an episode that everybody talks about.

[00:05:49] Anytime somebody mentions Are You Afraid of the Dark?

[00:05:51] They have to talk about episodes like Ghastly Grinner or the Laughing in the Dark, Tale of Dark Music, and this one.

[00:06:00] Like, this one people always go to.

[00:06:03] And for good reason.

[00:06:04] So for those of you who have not seen this episode, first of all, go watch it.

[00:06:07] It's available on YouTube for free.

[00:06:09] Go watch it.

[00:06:10] It's a great episode.

[00:06:11] It's basically about this school that has a hidden pool in its walls.

[00:06:16] Apparently there was an incident in 1954 where a kid was drowned and killed by an unknown entity in the swimming pool.

[00:06:23] The pool got shut down.

[00:06:24] And now these kids, 40 years later, find the pool and then all the bad stuff starts happening again.

[00:06:30] And it's all because of a ghost that is haunting the pool.

[00:06:34] And there's two kids, one of them played by a Goosebumps mace day, Ky Eric Erickson, who plays Zeke Matthews.

[00:06:41] Sort of a nerdy sort of character.

[00:06:42] And he grows a bond with someone on the swim team.

[00:06:46] And they find the ghost is haunting the pool and has traumatized the lifeguard, the former lifeguard, now custodian Charlie, who firsthand witnessed the death of that boy in 1954.

[00:06:58] And Marcel, you play the ghoulish spirit that is haunting the pool.

[00:07:04] And as I said, people remember this episode for that ghost.

[00:07:08] And I can't do justice in describing it.

[00:07:11] It's horrifying.

[00:07:13] It's like a skull, red demon pirate blood monster.

[00:07:17] Yes, it's like those.

[00:07:20] When I was a kid, I used to read the I don't know if you read the Tales from the Crypt or the all those EC comics.

[00:07:25] Yeah.

[00:07:25] So it's you know, the design was great.

[00:07:27] It was like an old Jack Davis Severn style monster, you know, dripping, you know, really skin and like decomposing.

[00:07:35] And it was wonderful.

[00:07:36] Ringing like because you got the skull in front and it's like it's not even a regular.

[00:07:41] It's like an angry skull.

[00:07:43] And it's just yeah, it's just all it's totally red.

[00:07:46] And it's covered in like just strings of like clothing.

[00:07:49] I don't even know.

[00:07:50] It could be skin for all.

[00:07:52] Composing flesh.

[00:07:54] Air.

[00:07:55] Yeah.

[00:07:57] Rot, rot, rot.

[00:07:58] Rot, rot.

[00:07:59] Yeah, it is.

[00:08:00] It is.

[00:08:01] Absolutely.

[00:08:02] And funny enough, the whole way that you can tell where the monster is near is that it starts to smell really bad.

[00:08:08] So you can imagine that it's probably a very decomposed corpse.

[00:08:13] Well, I know.

[00:08:13] That's what happens when you build a pool on top of an ancient burial ground.

[00:08:17] Right.

[00:08:17] Yeah.

[00:08:18] Don't build stuff on ancient.

[00:08:19] No, they should.

[00:08:20] They never learn.

[00:08:21] They never learn.

[00:08:21] They never learn.

[00:08:25] So I guess my first question about that is, so how did you get involved with working on Are You Afraid of the Dark?

[00:08:31] We've know that we've heard many times that it was sort of like a big acting pool in the 90s, especially for shows like Are You Afraid of the Dark and Goosebumps and many others.

[00:08:41] So how did you get involved with working on this show?

[00:08:45] Well, I auditioned.

[00:08:47] I auditioned for DJ McHale and a producer, creative consultant of the series whose name is great.

[00:08:54] Get this.

[00:08:55] Bill Bonecutter.

[00:08:58] So swear to God.

[00:08:59] Bill Bonecutter.

[00:09:00] Great.

[00:09:01] So I did my initial audition and, you know, I had a blast.

[00:09:07] I mean, they said, you know, just show, you know, playing a corpse or monster.

[00:09:10] So show us what you got.

[00:09:11] So I just jumped all over the place and, you know, pulled out every, you know, horror cliche I could think of, jumped on tables and, you know, and had a great time.

[00:09:21] You know, we were laughing our asses off.

[00:09:23] We had, you know, a lot of the similar references and everything.

[00:09:27] So, you know, they liked my energy and they just gave me the part based on that.

[00:09:31] And you can definitely see that in the performance that you give in that episode, sort of the way that the creature, when it materializes, because at first it's invisible, but they have to use like sort of a chemical reaction to make the monster visible.

[00:09:45] And once it comes out, it's very similar to sort of an old school, like those old school monster movies, like going back to Universal or even something that my mind goes to is like 15 movies, like the thing from another world.

[00:09:59] Like just the unearthly, just like moving around, like the way that the monster does.

[00:10:06] Which I stole all from, I stole completely from this stuff.

[00:10:11] Yeah.

[00:10:12] Those were my references.

[00:10:13] So, you know, I grabbed, you know, grabbed from Carrie.

[00:10:16] I grabbed from Invasion of the Body Snatchers.

[00:10:19] You know, I just did all the stuff that I could reference and that the people I was working with could reference.

[00:10:24] And we had, you know, a great time.

[00:10:26] If you're laughing, that's a good sign, I think.

[00:10:28] Exactly.

[00:10:31] So, obviously, this whole, this monster is a great design, but I can only imagine what the makeup process was like.

[00:10:38] Can you tell us a little bit about that?

[00:10:40] Like how long did it take to get?

[00:10:41] It wasn't too bad.

[00:10:43] I mean, it was fairly self-contained.

[00:10:45] It was just a body suit, you know, two-piece body suit and the mask thing.

[00:10:53] You know, I've done some makeups where I've been in the chair for four hours just getting ready for it.

[00:10:59] This one was an hour tops.

[00:11:03] The only drag is that, you know, you're literally sewn into this thing.

[00:11:07] So, you know, once you're in it, you're in it for the day.

[00:11:09] So, I couldn't get out.

[00:11:10] You know, I had to make sure that I, you know, took care of business beforehand.

[00:11:15] Right.

[00:11:16] You know, I was a huge smoker in the day.

[00:11:19] So, that was a bit of a drag.

[00:11:20] You know, the nicotine withdrawal sort of gave me the energy for the performance.

[00:11:26] But it wasn't too, too bad.

[00:11:27] I mean, the design was really, really actor-friendly, which, you know, you can't say for a lot of the things that we have to do.

[00:11:35] Mm-hmm.

[00:11:36] And not at all.

[00:11:38] So, out of curiosity, I mean, like, so you say it was a two-piece suit that they sewed you in?

[00:11:44] Yeah.

[00:11:44] But it wasn't like a zip or anything.

[00:11:46] They actually had to sew you into the suit?

[00:11:48] Yeah, was it?

[00:11:49] Well, no, I think it's, again, it's, I'm going back 30 years now.

[00:11:54] But no, it was just whatever they did to fasten the top and the bottom and the headpiece to the main body, you know, was fairly involved.

[00:12:04] So, you didn't want to get out.

[00:12:05] They didn't want to pull you out of it and then put you back into it.

[00:12:09] Yeah.

[00:12:09] It was like, it's not a situation where they're lathering you in all sorts of prosthetics, but it's still...

[00:12:14] No, not for that.

[00:12:15] No.

[00:12:15] Yeah.

[00:12:16] But it's still a situation where it's like, you get put in once and you don't want to get pulled out of it again.

[00:12:21] Right.

[00:12:22] I had those prosthetics for the face when I saw the episode originally.

[00:12:27] So, I was kind of wondering, like, you say it's a mask.

[00:12:30] Yeah, it's a mask.

[00:12:31] I know.

[00:12:32] It's terrific.

[00:12:33] It was a really, really brilliant design.

[00:12:37] It looked great.

[00:12:38] And again, it was really, really actor-friendly.

[00:12:41] And I think they had to design it, you know, it was in contact with the water and with chlorine and chemicals so much.

[00:12:48] So, I don't think...

[00:12:49] I think anything else would have disintegrated very, very quickly.

[00:12:53] So, it had to be a little robust.

[00:12:55] So, if I was, you know, it was rubber-based something.

[00:12:57] But again, I'm going back a long time.

[00:12:59] So, all I know is it was a lot more simple than it looks on screen.

[00:13:04] But that's the most interesting thing about both of these shows.

[00:13:10] Because we've done episodes talking about the masks and prosthetics and goosebumps.

[00:13:15] And a lot of those are the same.

[00:13:16] Like, they're really well-articulated masks.

[00:13:19] And sometimes you never would have known because they're so well-integrated onto the actor that it looks like it's like professional prosthetics.

[00:13:27] And it really isn't.

[00:13:28] It's pretty simple stuff.

[00:13:29] And that's just a testament to how these shows use their budgets very, very well.

[00:13:35] These shows weren't given, you know, great budgets.

[00:13:37] They were relatively low budget.

[00:13:40] But they made the most of it.

[00:13:42] And that's something to be admired overall, I would certainly say.

[00:13:46] Well, and also, I mean, it follows the main, you know, the direction or the structure of the piece follows the main rules.

[00:13:53] You know, don't show the monster until the last possible moment.

[00:13:58] And then, you know, go sparing with the coverage.

[00:14:01] Because if you linger on it too long, it's less scary.

[00:14:06] You know, it's more the threat of the monster that is the real terror than when you actually see him.

[00:14:11] And I think the reason that this episode works so well is because it does do a good job in building that suspense because you don't see the monster.

[00:14:19] So it takes you a while because you're just on the edge of your seat.

[00:14:22] It's like, what is this thing that's pulling him in?

[00:14:24] Like, you don't even know what it is until you get to that last act.

[00:14:28] And then it's revealed.

[00:14:29] And not only do you get to see what it is, but it's scary.

[00:14:33] It's like you don't want to be around this thing anymore.

[00:14:36] So it's really interesting.

[00:14:38] And a lot of Are You Afraid of the Dark episodes had great writing in that effect because it built up the suspense about what the supernatural sort of aspect was.

[00:14:48] And then it kind of hit you with that crescendo.

[00:14:51] And then it didn't let you go until the very end.

[00:14:54] So this episode was more interesting.

[00:14:56] See, it throws it right back to past movies.

[00:14:58] Again, Jaws.

[00:14:59] I think that's why it was so effective.

[00:15:02] You know it's a shark, I'm sure, at that point.

[00:15:04] But I mean, like, you don't see it until later.

[00:15:08] And that's a mistake.

[00:15:09] Did you know that?

[00:15:10] Really?

[00:15:11] Yeah.

[00:15:12] That's a complete...

[00:15:14] Apparently, they could never get the mechanical shark to work.

[00:15:19] So they had to improvise a whole bunch of coverage, you know, like, you know, the barrels that they shoot into the shark.

[00:15:25] All that was done instead because they couldn't get...

[00:15:29] They had to shoot and they couldn't get coverage with the actual robot.

[00:15:33] Whatever.

[00:15:34] Whatever.

[00:15:34] So it actually worked in the movie's favor because, you know, really, a lot of people say that the big letdown is when you finally see the shark at the end.

[00:15:42] It looks...

[00:15:43] It doesn't compare to the terror that, you know, knowing that it's out there, I'm not seeing it inspired.

[00:16:16] You know?

[00:16:19] Sometimes what you can imagine, especially as a kid, because kids have, you know, super active imagination.

[00:16:25] Sometimes what you can just think in your head is scarier than what you can put on the screen.

[00:16:30] Because you're left to figure out, like, what would be the most scary thing that it could be in that moment.

[00:16:37] So in terms of Jaws, like, when you're a kid watching Jaws, like, you're just imagining, like, what this shark looks like.

[00:16:42] And the thing, like, sometimes it is a little bit of a letdown because you're like, oh, that's not as scary as I was thinking.

[00:16:49] But maybe some people are like...

[00:16:51] Oh, I still thought Jaws was pretty scary when they did show him later.

[00:16:54] I saw it when it came out.

[00:16:57] I saw it when it came out and I was a kid.

[00:16:59] My dad took me in.

[00:17:00] I was scared.

[00:17:02] Shitless.

[00:17:03] I remember the moment when it was wonderful.

[00:17:05] It was great.

[00:17:06] I remember there was one moment, not to get too off track, but there was one moment when we saw the movie in our film class, like, years ago.

[00:17:14] The one scene that made everybody, like, actually scream was the scene where they're exploring the boat and the corpse comes out.

[00:17:21] I'm telling you, everybody in my class, like, jumped or, like, audibly, like, ah!

[00:17:28] Like, it was awesome.

[00:17:30] And that again, that moment again was an afterthought.

[00:17:34] Spielberg apparently wanted one good jump scare.

[00:17:38] And so he put that in after.

[00:17:41] That was back when jump scares were effectively used.

[00:17:44] Cool, eh?

[00:17:45] Definitely.

[00:17:46] Speaking of that...

[00:17:47] And also that's what the Dead Man's float bit, I think that's when the...

[00:17:51] Thinking back, that's when the...

[00:17:54] That was the creature's sort of responsibility was for the jump scares.

[00:17:58] Because before that, it's suspense, suspense.

[00:18:00] And then once he pops out, if I remember, there was a lot of, you know, grabbing, a lot of turning quickly, a lot of that.

[00:18:07] Yeah, it's just like...

[00:18:10] You go from, like, the suspense and once the monster shows up, it's like, you're off to the raises.

[00:18:15] Like, this thing is not messing around.

[00:18:18] And what honestly creeped me out as a kid watching it is just the fact that it could go anywhere.

[00:18:25] Like, when they go into the locker room, you think you're safe.

[00:18:27] But then it starts bubbling by the drain.

[00:18:30] And then the camera...

[00:18:32] I love Are You Afraid of the Dark's camera work?

[00:18:33] Because it just turns and there it is.

[00:18:36] It's there.

[00:18:37] And it's horrifying.

[00:18:39] It's like, you're not safe.

[00:18:40] Like, you better just run, run, run, because you cannot hide anywhere.

[00:18:44] That's terrifying.

[00:18:47] And speaking of water, I know we talked a little bit about the makeup already.

[00:18:51] What was it like being in the water and wearing that whole getup?

[00:18:55] Was it difficult?

[00:18:58] It wasn't the most comfortable of situations.

[00:19:00] But they were very, very efficient.

[00:19:05] Because probably because they didn't have much of a budget, as you say.

[00:19:09] So, you know, everything was...

[00:19:11] You know, there wasn't too much waiting around that you find on a lot of film or TV sets.

[00:19:16] They were very expedient, very quick.

[00:19:20] So, you know, any scenes in the water, really, you know, they took into the actor's comfort into account, which is rare.

[00:19:29] So, really, it wasn't too bad.

[00:19:31] It wasn't the, you know, the nightmare that it could have been.

[00:19:34] Exactly.

[00:19:34] Well, I wish I had a better story for you.

[00:19:37] But no, it was actually, you know, pretty smooth.

[00:19:40] Well, and that's just the thing, too.

[00:19:41] I thought at first, like, yeah, that suit, when it gets wet, would just be so heavy.

[00:19:45] It's so hard to move in.

[00:19:47] And super uncomfortable.

[00:19:49] No, not at all.

[00:19:49] It was really well designed.

[00:19:53] That's the mark of a good designer.

[00:19:55] Like I said, these people use the budget they had to make the best they could on what they could.

[00:20:02] And I mostly was curious just because I've heard stories about people who, I think it's also just because it wasn't full prosthetics.

[00:20:10] So, you don't have all the pounds of makeup on your face that are weighing you down, too.

[00:20:14] So, just being a simple costume, I can imagine probably made it a lot easier to maneuver.

[00:20:20] Oh, definitely.

[00:20:21] Definitely.

[00:20:21] Definitely.

[00:20:22] How did people on the set react the first time?

[00:20:24] I'm always curious, like, hearing about, like, when people dress up as monsters in a movie and, like, the first reaction when they come out in full costume.

[00:20:32] Was there anything like that on set?

[00:20:35] Yeah, it was.

[00:20:36] Well, it was fun.

[00:20:37] I mean, I played it.

[00:20:38] I mean, really, the costume is the part.

[00:20:43] I mean, you know, I did not have to do anything.

[00:20:46] In fact, the less I did, the better.

[00:20:49] You know, just, you know, you would just stand there and be and, you know, everybody was, you know, sort of nervous around you.

[00:20:57] You know, I'd sit on a chair between breaks and I'd just be still and just slowly scan the room and that would freak people out.

[00:21:05] And they loved it.

[00:21:06] So, you know, I think they were all very excited and very, in a way, you know, they were thrilled because I think they could tell that it was going to work.

[00:21:14] Yeah.

[00:21:15] So, that gave, like, you know, a little, a great little energy to the whole shoot.

[00:21:20] Yeah, that's awesome.

[00:21:22] Because I always think about, the one that comes to my mind is It with Bill Skarsgård.

[00:21:27] And, like, because they kept the design away from the kid actors, like, as long as they could.

[00:21:32] And then the first scene they had to shoot with him was a complete, like, surprise.

[00:21:36] So, the fear on their faces was 100% genuine.

[00:21:41] But then you would also tell stories about, like, how when they would say cut.

[00:21:44] Like, he'd be, like, up in a kid's face, like, drooling and laughing and being all scary.

[00:21:48] And then they'd say cut.

[00:21:49] And then he would just be like, dude, like, did I scare you too much?

[00:21:52] Like, I'm sorry.

[00:21:53] And the kid was like, that is great.

[00:21:56] Keep going with that.

[00:21:57] Like, I love what you're bringing to this.

[00:22:01] No, I just love the idea of just this pool corpse thing that's so scary in the show.

[00:22:08] Just sitting in a director's chair or whatever and just like.

[00:22:12] Not having a cigarette.

[00:22:14] Yeah.

[00:22:16] Just watching.

[00:22:17] Just observing.

[00:22:19] Yeah, and I'd lash out every now and then.

[00:22:21] You know, I'd grab somebody's leg or something.

[00:22:23] Yeah, somebody walked by her just like.

[00:22:24] Just because I was bored.

[00:22:27] I love that.

[00:22:28] That's so fun.

[00:22:29] I would love to see what it was like on that set.

[00:22:32] It was fun.

[00:22:33] It was a lot of fun.

[00:22:34] That actually brings that question to me, too.

[00:22:37] So, like, when we know now what everybody else saw.

[00:22:41] But so when you actually saw the design for the first time, was it the suit already made?

[00:22:48] Or did they show you, like, a concept of what was happening?

[00:22:51] Or?

[00:22:52] I can't remember.

[00:22:54] I can't remember.

[00:22:55] I mean, I must have.

[00:22:57] I really can't remember.

[00:22:59] I mean, it's a long time ago.

[00:23:00] It seems to me I would have had a fitting for the thing.

[00:23:04] But I can't even remember the fitting.

[00:23:06] I think something tells me that I was just introduced to this thing on the day.

[00:23:13] And I only think I shot one.

[00:23:15] I only think we shot one day with the creature.

[00:23:19] So, I think it was in and out, really.

[00:23:21] It was that quick.

[00:23:22] They were just like, put this on.

[00:23:25] That was it.

[00:23:26] That was the whole thing.

[00:23:29] And again, you know, in the day, you know, we're having fun.

[00:23:32] But, you know, nobody's thinking, you know, you're going to be on the podcast 30 years from now talking about it.

[00:23:39] You know, it's just a really fun job.

[00:23:43] And, you know, it was done and dusted.

[00:23:46] Yeah.

[00:23:47] So, yeah.

[00:23:47] It's funny because, like, all the Goosebumps actors we've had on here, even directors and writers, they've all pretty much said the same thing, you know?

[00:23:55] Really?

[00:23:56] They just can't believe that after 30 years, people still want to talk about something they did.

[00:24:01] But that just shows you the impact that these shows had.

[00:24:04] Yeah.

[00:24:05] Oh, yeah.

[00:24:07] Pop culture.

[00:24:08] And now it's kind of hit nostalgia phase for a lot of people and what those shows mean to them and still do to this day.

[00:24:15] I mean, there's so many people we've met along the way, podcasters and everything else that still talk about Are You Afraid of the Dark and Goosebumps and everything.

[00:24:23] And it's really neat and really interesting.

[00:24:26] To see the impact that these shows have had.

[00:24:29] Not just on kids of the past, but kids today, too.

[00:24:31] Because, obviously, the parents are now showing their kids, too.

[00:24:34] Right.

[00:24:34] So.

[00:24:35] Okay.

[00:24:36] Right.

[00:24:36] Yes.

[00:24:37] It's funny because you don't think, you know, you're.

[00:24:39] I suppose I would have the same reaction if, you know, in my day, you know, it was, you know, Sesame Street or Mr. Rogers, you know.

[00:24:49] So, you know, these are the people that I grew up with.

[00:24:54] Mm-hmm.

[00:24:55] It was a little later.

[00:24:56] I was Blue's Clues.

[00:24:57] So, like.

[00:24:57] Blue's Clues.

[00:24:58] Yeah.

[00:24:58] That was my thing I grew up with.

[00:25:00] But I see what you're talking about.

[00:25:01] It's like there are things that people latch on to when they're a kid and it, like, follows them into adulthood because it sticks with them.

[00:25:09] Like, there's just certain things that stick with kids, like, whether positively or, you know, for other reasons.

[00:25:18] But in terms of, like, shows like this, like, Are You Afraid of the Dark Goosebumps?

[00:25:22] Like, we talk about people.

[00:25:23] Obviously, we talk about people all the time who are, like, this and that used to give me nightmares as a kid.

[00:25:29] And I know some of us have had that experience, too.

[00:25:33] But, well, as I said, this episode is super iconic for many reasons.

[00:25:38] And even the monster aside, just the idea of drowning is a really scary thing, especially for a kid because, you know, certain kids are learning, excuse me, how to swim at a young age.

[00:25:52] And it could be a really just terrifying concept of being pulled under and drowning.

[00:25:59] Yeah.

[00:26:00] Because that's what your parents sort of, one of the earliest memories of, you know, being a kid or, you know, being near a pool.

[00:26:07] And the parents, you know, freaking out about, you know, stay, you know, don't stay in the, don't stay away from the deep end.

[00:26:13] Or, you know, there's a lot of baggage associated with pools for a child from the get-go.

[00:26:21] So I guess you're right.

[00:26:23] I never thought about that, that that taps into one of the earliest memories of childhood, right?

[00:26:28] Exactly.

[00:26:28] And that's, well, that's the great thing about these kinds of shows is because everything's supernatural, but it's told through the lens of, like, connections in reality.

[00:26:39] There's been many times where something is, there's a real-life issue that kids go through.

[00:26:45] Off the top of my head, we talk about Haunted Mask all the time from Goosebumps.

[00:26:50] That's essentially a story about bullying and sort of overcoming your insecurities, but it's told through the lens of horror.

[00:26:58] Because sometimes kids can relate to that in a sort of way, it's a sort of good symbolic way to sort of get over your fears.

[00:27:07] And this show could get dark.

[00:27:09] Like, this show, this episode begins with the death of a child.

[00:27:13] Right.

[00:27:13] And somebody holding that grief for 40 years.

[00:27:18] Like, this, the, Charlie, the custodian, his whole guilt.

[00:27:23] He could have been there.

[00:27:24] He was the lifeguard.

[00:27:25] And it would be true that this kid died.

[00:27:29] So, it's a very real piece of reality that's inserted amongst the horror and the chaos.

[00:27:39] So.

[00:27:41] Yeah, there's so many elements that you can look at with these episodes.

[00:27:45] And it's funny because when we do talk to some of the actors, when we deep dive into episodes, they're like,

[00:27:53] I never even thought about it like that.

[00:27:54] I like that.

[00:27:55] Because at the time, you know, you're probably thinking this is just a job.

[00:27:58] And, you know, like probably most of us would with any other nine to five.

[00:28:01] It's just like, oh, it's just a job.

[00:28:02] I'm not really impacting anybody or anything.

[00:28:04] But these episodes, when you look at certain parts of the stories and how you can relate them to actual real life events,

[00:28:13] makes them more impactful to people.

[00:28:15] And I think that's a big reason why these shows and these episodes have lasted.

[00:28:21] And I think, you know, going forward another 30 years from now, they'll still be talked about.

[00:28:28] And whatever the next stage of podcasting is or whatever, you know, by then, you know, I'll have the Fu Manchu going on.

[00:28:35] And I'll be super old.

[00:28:37] And we'll still be talking about it, I'm sure.

[00:28:39] But, I mean, it's interesting to see people's reactions and how it affected them.

[00:28:46] Just because you don't know.

[00:28:48] Like, Haunted Mask affected me and a lot of other people.

[00:28:50] And I know there's one Goosebumps collector who actually is more of a collector of Are You Afraid of the Dark?

[00:28:58] I think he has just about everything Are You Afraid of the Dark?

[00:29:01] He's a huge, massive fan.

[00:29:03] Like merch or props or collectibles?

[00:29:06] Yeah, that sort of stuff.

[00:29:08] Yeah.

[00:29:09] Just about everything that he could get his hands on from then.

[00:29:12] Because there's not a lot of Are You Afraid of the Dark merch.

[00:29:16] But, you know, that really impacted his life and his projection, it looks like, about where he's at.

[00:29:21] So it's very interesting to see how it basically touches everybody in a different way.

[00:29:28] Well, as you say, I think the core is, you know, I think it deals with the really good ones anyway.

[00:29:35] They deal with, you know, a truth, a fundamental truth.

[00:29:39] If, you know, this one, like Jaws, you know, the fear of water, the episode about bullying.

[00:29:47] I mean, if you've got that as the basis and you're just focused on telling a really, really good story and not underestimating your audience too much, you know, playing with them, but, you know, not talking down to them.

[00:30:03] I think you're, that's maybe 75%, 80% of the battle.

[00:30:08] And that's the great thing about these shows is that they didn't talk down the kids.

[00:30:12] They were very, like, they didn't shy away from the horror.

[00:30:15] Obviously, you can do things like extreme gore or, like, that sort of stuff that you do in horror movies.

[00:30:21] But, like, they went as far as they could.

[00:30:25] So, in this episode, you have the very real threat that you could die.

[00:30:29] Like, this thing could pull you under and ground you and you're dead.

[00:30:33] And it's not messing around.

[00:30:35] It's like its only goal.

[00:30:37] You can't reason with it.

[00:30:38] You can't, you can't fight.

[00:30:39] You can't really fight it.

[00:30:41] But, um, they established that the creature's made of water.

[00:30:44] So, you can't just, like, go at it with a blunt object.

[00:30:46] It's going to go right through it.

[00:30:48] Um, they have to find a way to defeat it.

[00:30:51] And, uh, by the end of the episode, there's even not necessarily a resolution because, uh, Zeke, the main character, he's afraid of water.

[00:31:00] And sometimes it's not as simple as just, like, you face a thing and then all of a sudden you're like, whoa, I can swim now.

[00:31:06] By the end, like, no, he's still, he's not much of a swimmer, but he's sort of like, um, he's bonded with the people around him.

[00:31:14] And, uh, he's more, he's a little more calm and collected and confident in himself.

[00:31:21] Um, because he was able to use what people were, people were calling him like a geek, a nerd.

[00:31:26] Um, but he used science to defeat the, uh, he used science to defeat the guy.

[00:31:31] So he becomes more confident in himself.

[00:31:32] That's a great message for kids.

[00:31:34] It's like, Hey, don't, you know, don't be like discouraged because other people say what you do is, is not cool or whatever.

[00:31:42] It's like, if there's something that you are legitimately interested in, be, be, be, be, be, yeah, exactly.

[00:31:51] That's the best message for any kid is be Bill Nye.

[00:31:54] But, um, but it's an important thing.

[00:31:56] And, and that's the great thing about these shows.

[00:32:00] Um, and actually that leads into my next question.

[00:32:03] It's just like, how do you feel about this sort of sub genre?

[00:32:06] Like just horror meant for kids?

[00:32:09] Like, have you ever had any experience, uh, with that sort of thing?

[00:32:15] Uh, with shows like this, you mean?

[00:32:18] Yeah.

[00:32:18] Like shows that sort of like affected kids because, uh, as I call them gateway horror, they've existed for a long time.

[00:32:25] It's just spooky sort of shows that kids would grow up with.

[00:32:28] And it's sort of, again, you know, I go, like I said, you know, I, I grew up reading, um, you know, they were my dad's collection, but you know, the EC comics, uh, you know, the, the, the, the crypt keeper of the vault, uh, tales from the crypt, all, all that.

[00:32:43] Yeah.

[00:32:44] Yeah.

[00:32:45] I was, I was addicted to these things.

[00:32:48] Um, so, I mean, and, and it was, it was geared, it was geared towards young, young people so much so that, you know, there was a big investigation in the fifties about, you know, corrupting, corrupting the morals of the youth with, you know, these horror comics.

[00:33:07] Um, but you know, if, you know, as far as I know, when I was a kid, we just looked at it as entertainment, you know, it was just pure entertainment.

[00:33:19] Um, and funnily enough, the adults were the ones who were all worried about the stuff that, well, not my, my father, but, you know, you know, worried about the, the impact of, uh, violence on television or violence in movies.

[00:33:35] Uh, and it's, uh, I, I never know where to stand on that.

[00:33:38] It's, it's a touchy subject because.

[00:33:41] You know, does it have an influence, a negative influence?

[00:33:45] Yes or no.

[00:33:45] Or, or do we actually take it for what it is as entertainment?

[00:33:48] I feel the best thing about horror for kids is that as a kid, you're, you're completely new to the world.

[00:33:55] You're still learning about how the world works and sometimes being exposed to those scary things, whether it's a full show or even movies like, um, sometimes a movie, like I think of Disney a lot.

[00:34:08] Surprisingly, Disney is like this big happy thing.

[00:34:10] But if you go back to some of their movies, like Snow White, like that movie has a whole scene in a forest that is terrifying.

[00:34:17] Yeah.

[00:34:18] And the point of those scenes is that it's supposed to show that there are scary things in the world.

[00:34:23] But if you learn that at a young age, you've sort of become more like, I don't want to say like thick skinned, but like you just, you, you sort of like grow your confidence in yourself that you can overpower the dangers of reality.

[00:34:38] Well, Snow White was, I think it's, I'm not sure who, who the, it was a French author, I think of Snow White, the story.

[00:34:46] But weren't like the Grimm's tales, were they cautionary tales for kids?

[00:34:50] Yeah.

[00:34:51] It was like, am I wrong?

[00:34:53] No, they, they very much were.

[00:34:55] The Grimm's fairy tales were the very first like cautionary tales and many of them did not end well.

[00:34:59] And that was the point.

[00:35:00] It was supposed to teach kids.

[00:35:03] Like I think of like the boy who cried wolf, like that's a whole story about essentially don't lie because one day something's going to happen and many people won't believe you because you're a liar.

[00:35:15] And that's what the whole story is about.

[00:35:17] And obviously it doesn't end very well for the main character, but that's the whole point.

[00:35:22] It's supposed to, it's not meant to scar your kids.

[00:35:26] No, that's not the point of it.

[00:35:27] And I feel like that's where a lot of people sort of adults, like you've talked about with, and I'm glad you brought up the whole thing with EC comics because there was a whole time where they're like, these things are corrupting like our youth.

[00:35:39] Like we need to get rid of them.

[00:35:40] And funny enough, it led to stuff like giant burnings of these things, which are like, what kind of example is that setting?

[00:35:48] Um, but it's like, I don't think, are you afraid of the dark went through that, but I know goosebumps did goosebumps goosebumps for a long time.

[00:35:55] Mostly the books, um, were for a while under public scrutiny because they're like, these should not be for kids.

[00:36:02] Like there was talks of banning them in schools, but there were parents who came out and were like, no, this stuff is helping my kid read.

[00:36:11] Like my kid is reading at a level they never did before because of these books.

[00:36:16] And that's the thing.

[00:36:17] Sometimes it's just for mere entertainment.

[00:36:21] Like people always talk about how video games are going to make criminals, uh, cause of stuff like GTA.

[00:36:26] And that's not, that's not true at all.

[00:36:28] Like it's your upbringing that affects how you become as an adult.

[00:36:33] And sometimes you need to be exposed.

[00:36:35] Yeah, I never go around in my car plowing over hookers and, you know.

[00:36:39] Well, I mean, you know, you get into a, there's a different, there's a, there's, that's a whole different conversation.

[00:36:46] Um, you know, and I, I don't, I don't even know if we have the time to get into that.

[00:36:52] I mean, I, I, I mean, all these debates I think are, are, are, are complex.

[00:36:58] I don't think they're, they're easy answers either way.

[00:37:03] I mean, what I do know is that, uh, and are you afraid of the dark?

[00:37:07] The people involved, uh, DJ McHale and all these, you know, they had, there was an integrity.

[00:37:15] And also there was a genuine concern for the audience.

[00:37:20] I mean, they know who their audience was for.

[00:37:21] They know they were delivering a product, you know, it's the business, the entertainment business.

[00:37:27] Um, but they also knew that they had to be, you know, they also knew what the line was.

[00:37:33] And, you know, they knew that they, you know, for this audience, that age that, you know, there's only so far we can go.

[00:37:39] We can't cross that line because then it stops being entertainment and it, it, you know, it borders on something else, you know, because then you're, you're abusing the position, uh, to market something, you know, that you're going to do a, you know, like cigarettes, minors kind of thing.

[00:37:59] Yeah.

[00:38:00] So same thing with video games.

[00:38:02] I think, you know, I think, and ratings on movies, you know, I think there are certain things that should be, you know, in the hands of, or in the minds of, I think the age restrictions sometimes do work.

[00:38:16] Yeah.

[00:38:17] Well, and you think about movies that were PG back when PG was first, when the, when the PG rating and movies was first introduced, it was on movies like jaws and gremlins and, uh, Raiders of the lost arc.

[00:38:30] And those movies are really intense at times.

[00:38:33] Um, but nowadays PG is like frozen and a toy story.

[00:38:38] And those movies have a little bit of a bite, but you compare them to the movies that I mentioned before to now.

[00:38:45] Um, it just seems like people were a little less uptight back then.

[00:38:50] Uh, a little bit.

[00:38:52] I tend to agree.

[00:38:53] I mean, I see trigger warnings now, you know, about, you know, warning this scene contains smoking or, you know, people having a drink.

[00:39:00] I go, you know, in the theater, we have trigger warnings for language and this and that.

[00:39:06] And to a certain extent, um, you know, you, you go to the theater or you go see a good movie should challenge you.

[00:39:15] Um, and, you know, disturb you to a certain extent.

[00:39:20] Um, you know, not to the point, you know, if you're epileptic, I mean, you know, not to have flashing lights be worn against that, but I mean, ideas and content should.

[00:39:29] You know, excite and make you think.

[00:39:32] Mm-hmm.

[00:39:34] So there's that too.

[00:39:35] I mean, yes, I think, yeah, I think now we're perhaps, I feel we're getting into a, uh, a period.

[00:39:41] I think maybe we're, we're walking back from it, but I think for a while and still now it's a bit too, too precious with certain things.

[00:39:49] You know, we should just trust people to be able to handle certain subjects.

[00:39:55] Yeah.

[00:39:55] Something kids are smarter than we give them credit for.

[00:39:57] There's actually like a ton of, uh, reference to even in old episodes of shows where they've, they talk about that, you know, one that comes to mind for me because it was a great one when, uh, I grew up and I still watch it to this day is married with children.

[00:40:11] Mm-hmm.

[00:40:12] So when Al goes to, uh, it goes to Congress to try to get psycho dad back on TV and he's telling him, he's like, you know, we need to quit blaming TV for our kids being messed up.

[00:40:27] Now, granted his reasoning was, you know, I placed the blame solely where it belongs on their mother, but that's, you know, joke aside.

[00:40:34] It's a joke.

[00:40:35] Yeah.

[00:40:36] He's like, you know, I grew up watching Tom and Jerry.

[00:40:39] He's like, I didn't go around trying to drop an anvil on people or do anything else.

[00:40:43] He's like, cause we have common sense.

[00:40:46] It's like, we have to trust that we don't do these things that we see on TV because it's meant for entertainment.

[00:40:52] And that was the bottom line of his whole speech.

[00:40:54] And it's just, I think people lose that nowadays once in a while, maybe just to find something to blame.

[00:41:01] Maybe it's because I don't know, like, like you said, like one little thing might've been like, oh, there's smoking or there's whatever.

[00:41:07] Well, and bring that back around.

[00:41:09] Used to not even be a second thought.

[00:41:11] Yeah.

[00:41:11] Well, you know, I mean, we know smoking.

[00:41:13] Well, we know, we know smoking is bad for you.

[00:41:15] Period.

[00:41:16] You shouldn't, you know, if you, you shouldn't smoke.

[00:41:19] Even when I smoked, I knew this.

[00:41:20] There's nothing good can come of this thing.

[00:41:24] You know, do you need a warning for that?

[00:41:27] You know, watching a James Bond picture?

[00:41:29] I don't know.

[00:41:30] Maybe, maybe not.

[00:41:31] I, I'm not an expert.

[00:41:32] I can't say, you know, I do think that, you know, I think what I do think is that there are warnings.

[00:41:38] There are so many warnings now that, you know, the real dangerous elements get lost in, in a white noise of warning.

[00:41:49] So, you know, it's, if everything is dangerous.

[00:41:52] You can't steal everything from your kids.

[00:41:53] Sometimes you just got to let kids experience things.

[00:41:55] You can be, as parents, you know, you be there for your kids when you really need them, but you can't shield them all the time because they're not going to learn anything about the real world.

[00:42:03] That's the most important thing.

[00:42:05] And I think bringing it back to, you know, the Dead Man's Float, as I've said, many people talk about how they had nightmares for long periods of time after seeing this episode.

[00:42:15] But those same people are being like, I love this episode.

[00:42:19] I love it.

[00:42:20] Like, I love this whole show.

[00:42:21] Like, there's people who have made their own identities around, couldn't be, couldn't be us, made their own identities around these kinds of shows because it had an impact on them.

[00:42:32] And maybe it wasn't all, you know, maybe it wasn't sunshine and roses all the time, but sometimes these things really leave an impact.

[00:42:39] And I feel like that's the absolute most important thing about stuff like this and why it's iconic is because it sticks with people.

[00:42:47] It really does into adulthood.

[00:42:49] And that's the most.

[00:42:50] I think, honestly, the ending they gave that episode where, you know, everything was okay.

[00:42:57] The creature never appeared again.

[00:42:59] And Charlie, you know, kind of got over that at that point.

[00:43:03] Things like that.

[00:43:03] They kind of wrapped it up nicely.

[00:43:05] They didn't do like a Friday the 13th where the monster came out of the pool and one last time to grab, you know, the kids or anything.

[00:43:13] But, I mean, I would have liked that.

[00:43:15] Which was cool.

[00:43:15] It was cool.

[00:43:18] Let's all be honest.

[00:43:19] If it did end that way, I wouldn't have had any problems.

[00:43:22] Personally.

[00:43:23] I would have loved that one.

[00:43:24] But it's okay.

[00:43:26] There have been many other Art of the Dark episodes that end like that.

[00:43:32] It just shows you, though, those episodes, even back then, they knew it was a kid's show.

[00:43:38] They knew when to reel it back in a little bit.

[00:43:40] Oh, yeah.

[00:43:41] That we were talking about.

[00:43:42] Yeah.

[00:43:42] So, we didn't have to have warnings back then.

[00:43:45] Because, again, it goes, I think, back to common sense.

[00:43:47] Like, if you're making a show for kids, even if it's on cable, which Are You Afraid of the Dark was.

[00:43:53] So, it did get away with a little bit more stuff compared to shows like Goosebumps that were on network television.

[00:43:58] But, overall.

[00:43:59] And the source material for Goosebumps was a lot diggier than.

[00:44:03] Yeah.

[00:44:04] Sometimes it was.

[00:44:05] Right.

[00:44:06] Yeah.

[00:44:06] Yeah.

[00:44:06] Definitely.

[00:44:07] And, yeah.

[00:44:09] But that's a whole other conversation for another time.

[00:44:12] I do want to quickly bring up.

[00:44:15] There's a few other questions submitted by our fans that I wanted to bring up.

[00:44:19] One of them is, do you remember where this episode was filmed?

[00:44:23] Was it filmed in an actual rec center or was it a set?

[00:44:26] No, it was in a rec center.

[00:44:28] And if memory serves, it was in the central part of Montreal on St. Hubert Street in an area called the Plateau Mont-Royal.

[00:44:41] Really?

[00:44:41] That's really interesting.

[00:44:43] That was actually submitted by.

[00:44:45] I think that was submitted by a fan who visits filming locations.

[00:44:50] Okay.

[00:44:52] But you probably made them very happy.

[00:44:54] All right.

[00:44:55] I don't know which place, but it's around there, I'm sure.

[00:44:59] Yep.

[00:44:59] No, that's, it was really interesting to know because sometimes you never know what's a set and what's actually on location.

[00:45:07] So it's always.

[00:45:08] Oh, yeah.

[00:45:08] Well, they couldn't afford to build a pool for.

[00:45:12] Yeah.

[00:45:12] I was going to say some of the similarities.

[00:45:14] Most shows are about the same, even though one was a cable show and one was never a work show.

[00:45:18] They try to use real locations as often as possible.

[00:45:22] We talk about all the time with Goosebumps.

[00:45:23] So we haven't deep dived into as much of R.U.

[00:45:26] The Ferry the Darkie yet.

[00:45:27] This is our very first episode doing so.

[00:45:30] So I'm very excited to start kind of dipping our toes in that a little bit to see what other secrets we can find out from the show.

[00:45:39] Well, because it's an anthology and the locations change all the time.

[00:45:43] I mean, it would seems to me like, you know, you wouldn't be able to make a shoot on set too, too much.

[00:45:50] It would all be location work because there's nothing recurring.

[00:45:54] Right.

[00:45:54] Yeah.

[00:45:55] Yeah.

[00:45:55] It's always changing.

[00:45:56] So you can't always like be throwing stuff out.

[00:45:59] Yeah.

[00:45:59] You know, arranging a set because that goes into the budget.

[00:46:02] So but it's always interesting to like see there's people like as we said, there's people who go to these filming locations and are like, well, this is where this episode was filmed.

[00:46:12] Like there's people who've gone to Casa Loma because I was done for a Goosebumps episode and they've been like, all right, well, this is where this episode was filmed.

[00:46:21] Like here you could see where like that scene was shot.

[00:46:23] Like this is that's the part where that was filmed.

[00:46:25] Yeah.

[00:46:26] It's always interesting.

[00:46:27] It's like going back in time almost and just seeing how things have changed.

[00:46:31] Another question is, were you able to did they give you any sort of like thing to keep after filming?

[00:46:37] Did they give you any like like sort of a gift walk out with the suit?

[00:46:43] No, I know.

[00:46:45] No, no, no.

[00:46:45] They would not.

[00:46:46] They wouldn't give me.

[00:46:46] No, no.

[00:46:47] I had a little extra water in me after the after the day.

[00:46:50] But no, no, I don't usually keep trophies or or souvenirs from from anything I work on.

[00:47:02] Well, number one, they rarely offer because it costs money.

[00:47:07] And number two, I don't you know, this me my best my the memories that I have are my best souvenir.

[00:47:13] So I usually don't do anything.

[00:47:16] You know, if we talk to Kai again, Nick, we're going to have to ask him if he kept the sock from the suit.

[00:47:21] He probably did.

[00:47:22] That's true.

[00:47:24] When he did the Goosebumps episode, we asked him the same question.

[00:47:27] And he was like, they weren't even I think they gave him a bag.

[00:47:30] But he's like, I usually try to keep my socks from every from everything I do.

[00:47:36] Every shoot I do.

[00:47:37] Oh, yeah.

[00:47:39] I guess that's his thing.

[00:47:40] He takes he takes to take socks.

[00:47:42] Yep.

[00:47:43] Bear socks.

[00:47:44] Fair enough.

[00:47:44] Random, but interesting.

[00:47:46] It's like a nice trophy of everything.

[00:47:48] But, you know, you need socks.

[00:47:49] And, you know, if you can spend your whole life without buying another pair of socks because you get them for free.

[00:47:54] Why not?

[00:47:55] Definitely.

[00:47:56] I think I'll start doing that myself.

[00:47:59] Another quick question is, is there anything that scares you personally?

[00:48:08] Well, the scariest movie, the movie that scares me to this day that I saw when I was a kid and every time I watch it terrifies me is Invasion of the Body Snatchers.

[00:48:19] The 76 one with Sutherland.

[00:48:22] I don't know if you're familiar with that one.

[00:48:24] That's a great one.

[00:48:26] Yeah, it's that.

[00:48:28] The idea of, you know, this sort of unseen force slowly taking control of, you know, aspects of everyday life and, you know, gradually isolating you, I think is something that terrifies me.

[00:48:46] Because, well, not only in the science fiction, but, you know, it happens in real life, too, in very insidious ways that we won't get into.

[00:48:58] But that terrifies me.

[00:49:02] Yeah, definitely.

[00:49:03] I'm always interested, especially in an episode like this, as we've already discussed, sort of the fear of water and sort of being tapped into this one.

[00:49:11] It's always interesting to, you know, see if there's people in horror, you know, people who work in horror to know, like, what scares them?

[00:49:20] Yeah, like that sort of thing.

[00:49:22] You didn't mean that as a pun, did you?

[00:49:25] Maybe I did.

[00:49:26] You said tap.

[00:49:27] That's water.

[00:49:28] I thought you were talking.

[00:49:29] I thought it was a pun.

[00:49:31] I was going to say maybe I did, but I probably didn't because I missed it.

[00:49:34] So there you go.

[00:49:36] And then one last thing I want to bring up, and I would be remiss if I didn't bring this up.

[00:49:41] You were actually in another episode of Are You Afraid of the Dark?

[00:49:44] It was called The Tale of the Walking Shadow.

[00:49:46] Yes.

[00:49:47] And it played the ghost of an actor who was supposed to be in a play of Macbeth.

[00:49:53] Yeah.

[00:49:53] And funny enough, that was an episode that another Goosebumps alum, Catherine Long, who we've talked on the podcast before, was also in that episode.

[00:50:02] Do you remember anything from working on that episode?

[00:50:04] Well, I remember Jay Baruchel was in that.

[00:50:09] He was the one I had all my scenes with.

[00:50:11] And that's where I met Jay, and he's also a Montrealer and great, great actor and a great guy.

[00:50:19] Yeah, again, these are going back.

[00:50:21] This was after my stint at Stratford, so I still had my classical actor muscles.

[00:50:28] They were still a little honed, more honed than they are now.

[00:50:31] So I got to do all my sword fighting, flex my sword fighting, my iambic pentameter, all this stuff.

[00:50:39] It was also a lot of fun.

[00:50:41] And as a theater actor, it was probably really fun to do an episode that was about a theater.

[00:50:46] Yeah.

[00:50:47] It was wonderful.

[00:50:48] I'd imagine that episode you had a better time on than the pool one, Dead Man's Float.

[00:50:53] No, actually.

[00:50:55] No, the Dead Man's Float I had a better time on because it was a little easier.

[00:50:58] This one, you know, my sword fighting wasn't as good as I thought it was.

[00:51:03] You know, so I had to work really hard on that one.

[00:51:06] It's two different types of acting because in one, you're doing like an actual, you have dialogue and you're doing big action scenes.

[00:51:14] In the other one, you just put on a costume and just do your thing.

[00:51:16] And let the costume do the work.

[00:51:18] Exactly.

[00:51:19] So you don't have to say anything.

[00:51:21] You just do it.

[00:51:22] You just go ham on it.

[00:51:24] Completely.

[00:51:25] Absolutely.

[00:51:26] But, you know, I guess my final question is just like, you know, looking back all these years later, like, how does it feel?

[00:51:34] Like the sort of legacy sort of follows you with these shows.

[00:51:38] Like, you know, we always talk about like how at the time, you know, many of the actors we talked to, it's just a job.

[00:51:44] But all these years later, all of a sudden there's all these people who remember this.

[00:51:48] And how do you feel about that?

[00:51:50] Well, you know, it's always nice to be, you know, we didn't, you know, I didn't think it at the time.

[00:51:56] But like the episodes of Arthur that we did, you know, that it means something to some people and they got a kick out of it.

[00:52:07] And, you know, that's always, you know, we're going to leave this earth without, you know, anything.

[00:52:17] So it's nice to know that, you know, in your work, you've actually done something that affected people that they enjoyed or they entertain them.

[00:52:27] You know, it sounds corny and cliche, but it's true.

[00:52:30] It's good to know that, you know, whenever somebody says, oh, I saw you in that or that love that show.

[00:52:35] Or I remember that when I was a kid.

[00:52:37] How can it not make you feel good?

[00:52:39] You know, because, you know, it is more.

[00:52:41] It should be more than a paycheck.

[00:52:44] And it's those moments that make it more than a paycheck.

[00:52:47] And then you go, well, it sort of mitigates all the, you know, the difficulties and the rough parts of this business.

[00:52:59] You know, you get to, you know, stick with it and it gets to stick with other people in a way.

[00:53:06] So in a sort of way, you become immortal because everybody's going to, people are going to pass the startup.

[00:53:13] We talk about this all the time.

[00:53:14] People are going to pass this down to their kids.

[00:53:16] And then if it sticks with them, you know, it's going to keep on going and going and it's going to go on forever.

[00:53:21] So I can only imagine what that feeling is like, especially again, for something that at the time you don't even think of it like that.

[00:53:30] But, you know, sometimes you'd be surprised of what catches on and what is.

[00:53:34] Oh, no, completely.

[00:53:36] It's a mystery.

[00:53:38] Nobody knows how, you know, what catches on and what doesn't, how some things work, how some things don't.

[00:53:45] So, you know, you just do your best, you know, and with any luck, you know, you'll do something that, you know, will mean something to somebody.

[00:53:57] And make a couple of bucks at the same time.

[00:54:00] And feed your family.

[00:54:01] Right.

[00:54:01] Definitely.

[00:54:01] And I guess to close things off, what would you have to say to all the people watching who had bedwetting nightmares of you as that monster?

[00:54:11] I'll be back.

[00:54:15] With a vengeance.

[00:54:16] With a vengeance.

[00:54:17] Go and take a shower.

[00:54:19] Yeah, yeah.

[00:54:20] Take a shower, please.

[00:54:21] Because if you go in the pool, you don't know.

[00:54:24] Yeah, stay out of the pool.

[00:54:26] Well, Marcel, hey, it's been awesome getting to talk with you today and pick your brain about Are You Afraid of the Dark?

[00:54:33] Thank you so much for coming on and talking with us.

[00:54:36] Thanks for having me.

[00:54:37] Absolutely.

[00:54:38] Great time.

[00:54:40] Absolutely.

[00:54:40] We're happy to have you on any time again.

[00:54:43] So we appreciate it.

[00:54:44] So, again, thank you very much for joining us.

[00:54:47] Hopefully we'll be here back from Kai soon.

[00:54:49] Maybe we can schedule something up.

[00:54:51] Sure.

[00:54:51] Maybe we can do a little bit of a reunion between Zeke and that ghastly corpse.

[00:54:56] I'm sure he'll be dying.

[00:54:58] I haven't seen him in 30 years.

[00:55:01] But that's going to do it for tonight's episode of the Goosebumps Crew Podcast.

[00:55:04] Again, Marcel, thank you so much for joining us.

[00:55:06] And as always, make sure if you like today's episode, make sure you have a like and comment.

[00:55:10] Follow us on our YouTube.

[00:55:11] Subscribe to us on our YouTube channel.

[00:55:13] Follow us on our audio platforms and social medias.

[00:55:15] All those links are in the description below.

[00:55:16] You can follow Nick and Bjorn at their social medias and YouTubes at Goosebumps.com and

[00:55:22] Shaolin, respectively.

[00:55:23] So check them out.

[00:55:24] We'll have a brand new episode of the podcast for you next week.

[00:55:26] But until then, this has been the Goosebumps Crew Podcast.

[00:55:28] And from all of us here, we want to wish you all as always to take care, stay safe, and

[00:55:32] have a very scary day.