Graphic Material (ft. Maddi Gonzalez & BeanieBearz)

[00:00:02] The most thrilling, spikingly series ever! From the pages of R.L. Stine's best-selling books, and the screens go on forever and ever. We now return to Goosebumps.

[00:01:06] Greetings Goosebumps fans, young and old, big and small, living dead and undead. Welcome back to the Goosebumps Crew Podcast. As always, I'm your host, Isaiah Vargas. I'm joined by my good buddy, Nick Shaw. We are the Goosebumps Crew, and we are back to talk some Goosebumps. If this is your first time joining us here on the Goosebumps Crew Podcast, I want to sincerely welcome you all as always. If you are or have ever been a fan of the Goosebumps series of books, or the monster franchise those books spawned, I have a feeling this podcast is going to be right up your alley. As I always say, me, Bjorn, and Nick are some of the biggest Goosebumps nerds on the entire planet.

[00:01:36] We can talk about Goosebumps for hours, and that is exactly what we do here on this podcast. Every week, we've got a brand new episode talking about everything Goosebumps, whether it be the books, TV shows, movies, video games, merchandise, whatever it is that Goosebumps in the name. We're going to talk about it so much that the word Goosebumps is not going to sound like a real word anymore. That's how much we talk about it. So with all that said, if you end up liking today's episode, make sure you leave a like and comment. If you're watching us on YouTube, subscribe to our YouTube channel.

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[00:02:30] Join the Goosebumps crew today. Become a crew member. We thank you in advance for your support. And I also want to introduce a very good friend of mine to the Goosebumps crew. I want to introduce Beanie Bears, an uber talented artist and a great friend of mine. Beanie, how are you doing tonight? I'm doing good. Thank you for having me. It's good to be here. We're very glad to have you. And today on the Goosebumps crew podcast, we are revisiting the world of Goosebumps comics and graphic novels.

[00:02:58] Of course, in the past, if any of you are familiar with us, we've done episodes talking about primarily the IDW Goosebumps comics, particularly Goosebumps, Donald and Die and Secrets of the Swamp with their respective authors. But today we are going into the world of Goosebumps graphics. More specifically, the recent addition to the series, that being Goosebumps, the graphic novel, The Haunted Mask.

[00:03:23] And we're very, very pleased to have the author and illustrator behind this graphic novel, Maddie Gonzalez, joining us today. Maddie, thank you for joining us. How are you doing? Yeah, thank you. I'm doing great. Awesome. We're very glad to have you. And we're very excited to talk about this graphic novel because it hit bookshelves in September of last year. It is the newest Goosebumps graphic novel since I think the last one was nine years ago.

[00:03:50] And actually, let's get a little bit of history into Goosebumps graphics. So once upon a time, there was a division of Scholastic called Graphics. It was basically their graphic novel division where they made, you know, graphic novels, of course. They did mostly graphic novels based off their popular series. And of course, Goosebumps was among them. They also did some original series like Bone, which was one that was definitely popular when I was growing up. In 2007, we got the very first Goosebumps graphic novel, Creepy Creatures.

[00:04:19] It basically featured three classic Goosebumps stories, each drawn by a different artist. So here, of course, we have Werewolf Fever Swamp, Scarecrowix Midnight, and Abominion in Pasadena. It was a really good book. Definitely check it out if you haven't already. It was one of the first books that I ever read. Then in 2008, in the summer, we got two more editions. We got Terror Trips and Scary Summer. And then in 2015, in the lead up to the Goosebumps feature film, we got Slappy's Tales of Horror.

[00:04:47] It was a repackage of three stories from those first three books with, of course, a new edition, that being Night of the Living Dummy. But nine years since then, we finally have a brand new addition to that series, that being The Haunted Mask. And this time, it's not three stories. It's one story. So my first question to you, Maddie. The best story. Yeah, definitely. True! True!

[00:05:09] So my first question to you, Maddie, since you are the author and illustrator who adapted this classic book into graphic novel form. But before we get into the graphic novel itself, I do want to ask, what got you into your current career as an illustrator and cartoonist? Oh boy. So when I was a kid, as a lot of us do, we all, you know, start kind of drawing, doodling, things like that.

[00:05:39] I never stopped. I was obsessed with it. I loved drawing comic books and comic strips and making flipparamas, you know, from Captain Underpants, that type of stuff. And so when I was a teenager, I decided to go to an art school to pursue that, to pursue, you know, drawing comics for a living.

[00:06:03] I didn't make it my four years of art school, but I ended up leaving and kind of doing my own thing for a little while. And I think in 2015, I got my first published credit with Boom Studios. And after that, it's been kind of a steady roll of people contacting me to draw other people's scripts. And myself also making my own personal work and self-publishing that.

[00:06:32] So I think I started, I got contacted for Goosebumps, I want to say in 2021, maybe. I, I'm a little rough on the details for a little while around that time. But since, since I got contacted for that, I have drawn Haunted Mask. I've drawn the upcoming Goosebumps graphic novel, and there is a third on the way.

[00:07:00] Awesome. I'm very excited to see the third one. We don't even know what it is yet. And I'm just really excited. Neither do I. Yeah, I know. And we'll get more into that later. So what was your connection with, you know, Goosebumps before you got involved with the graphic novels? Did you grow up with the books? Were you a fan? Absolutely. So I, as a kid growing up in the 90s and the early 2000s, the Goosebumps books were pretty ubiquitous.

[00:07:30] They were all over the place, you know, you go to the library, go to the book fair. I would check mine out, I'm pretty sure from my school library all the time. I read a pretty, pretty much, I only read the original 62 books from that era, I suppose. And then a few books from the Give Yourself Goosebumps era. Actually, I have, I brought out from my personal collection, the books that I know I've read. Let me count them. Hold on.

[00:08:00] Because I wanted to see. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve. Okay, I've only read 12 of the original 62 when I was a kid. These were the ones that I read. And I was crazy about them. Actually, when I was a kid, really interesting, maybe, maybe it's not. Well, I think it's interesting. I used to take parts of the Goosebumps books and I would draw them into comics. Oh my God. For myself as a little kid.

[00:08:28] And so the fact that I get to do this for a living is a little mind blowing to say the least. Because it's like a full circle moment. Yeah. For me. Absolutely. That's so nice. And I still think they're great. I mean, for work, I've had to read, you know, quite a few when we're deciding which ones, you know, we want to adapt. And I'll read them for fun and I'll, I want to say that I can credit them for me being so interested in horror at such a young age.

[00:08:59] Oh yeah. Horror books, horror comics, you know, it all kind of stems from there, I want to say. Definitely. Absolutely. So, of course, this first graphic novel that you did for the series was based off the 11th book in the original series, The Haunted Mask. Usually referred to be one of, if not the best book in the original 62. What did you think of this book, you know, initially on your reading of it?

[00:09:29] So rereading it again, I totally, totally remember reading it as a kid. And rereading it, I thought, you know, it's still so solid. It holds up. The scares are great. I love the characters. I feel so strongly for little Carly Beth. Every time I think about her, my, oh, my poor daughter. I really like it. I mean, I think that's pretty much an understatement.

[00:09:55] You know, that's, that's the one that I think everybody, or at least, you know, most Goosebumps fans will agree that it's, you know, so solid. But front to back, start to end, like, it's, it's just, you know, a classic for a reason. It's a very introspective sort of story. It's, it's very, one of its kind amongst all the different Goosebumps books. Goosebumps is very campy at times. It's very sort of outward spookiness. But this was a story that worked so well because it was very inward.

[00:10:24] It was a character essentially, you know, through the lens of supernatural creatures and whatnot, in this case, masks, was fighting essentially her inner demons. And, you know, her want to be different when she learns to just be herself. It's a very good moral. And I feel like Stein found a way to really represent that in a way that is thematically appropriate. So that's why I personally feel it is the best book.

[00:10:54] Uh, I think of all of them. Stein himself has even said that that's his favorite. So. And yeah, it's good. It's a great episode too. Yeah. Yeah. So it's just a great story overall. And I couldn't have imagined really a better book to start out with. It's crazy that it took this long to get one. You'd think that would have been done like long ago, but. Right. Yeah. I guess better.

[00:11:20] Did they ask you which one you wanted to do as your first one or was this already a set thing? Uh, so when Scholastic contacted me. Uh, they said we are going to be doing a Goosebumps graphic. Uh, I think the term is full length. I can't remember. They wanted to do the Goosebumps version of the like very, very highly successful Babysitter's Club graphics. Uh, novels. So they came to me and they said right off the bat, they were like, we're doing Haunted Mask first. Um. Wow.

[00:11:49] I want to say in the first email, they maybe didn't, uh, tell me that it was going to be Haunted Mask until like maybe the second or third email. Cause I, I do very distinctly remember, uh, going back and reading, um, uh, welcome to Dead House. Right. And being like, whoa, this is crazy. It's got their eyeballs falling out and stuff. Um, but I, uh, yeah, it was, it was very right away. They said, we're going to start off with, uh, Haunted Mask. We're going to ask you to do some, some test pages.

[00:12:18] We're asking like several artists that are all going to be basically auditioning for, um, who's going to be running the series, not running, but you know, like starting off the series, uh, singularly. So that, but in comparison to that, the second book, I got an option, uh, out of four books to choose. And, um, it's not, it's not explicitly a secret.

[00:12:45] So I will just say that the second, uh, graphics, uh, Goosebumps book is going to be Monster Blood. Um, so that's the scoop if nobody's heard it before you heard it your first. Uh, and the books that they had me choose from that time around were, I'm gonna do my best to remember. I'm, I believe it was Werewolf of the Fever Swamp, The Blob That Ate Everything, uh, Monster Blood, and Calling All Creeps. I really wanted to do Calling All Creeps.

[00:13:14] Uh, I think the ranking that I had personally was I want to, I really want to do Calling All Creeps. I really want to do, um, The Blob That Ate Everything. Uh, because I thought it was really funny. Yeah. And, uh, Monster Blood I think was kind of on the lower end for ones that I wanted to adapt. Um, and the reason that we went with Monster Blood I think was because since this series is starting out, and obviously our, our aim is to sell books, uh, that was a more recognizable story.

[00:13:40] So we could start out with the real heavy hitter titles and then kind of go into the, I don't want to say lesser known, but lesser known ones. Um, yeah. Um, in the most bumps, uh, I guess, uh, bibliography. Hierarchy, in a way. Yeah. Yeah. I understand where that's coming from. Yeah. I was gonna say, I understand where that's coming from. There's not, um, they're, they're trying to appeal to a casual fan as well. Exactly. Yeah. So much just the diehards. Mm-hmm.

[00:14:07] So, you know, where the blob that ate everyone might not be someone may not even know what that book, because it was later in the series. I mean, but I feel like world fever swamp is very recognizable. Um, but I feel like maybe because they did that one before. Yeah. That might've been also it. I think. Mm-hmm. Maybe they put it on the back burner, but out of all those, yeah. Calling all creeps would be really cool. I mean, I'm here. I'm sitting over here being like, we almost got a calling all creeps graphic novel. Like maybe in the future, maybe in the future.

[00:14:37] I'm just surprised they threw those two, you know, calling all creeps blob. They ate everyone because those are like later, those are later in the series and those books don't normally get a lot of attention. Um, but the fact that they were willing to do one of those two, like, so, you know, early into this new series, like, that's actually kind of surprising. Yeah, I think. Yeah.

[00:14:58] And I, I can't, I'm not gonna like say that this was definitely said cause I have a kind of a iffy memory, but I want to say that somebody at one point mentioned maybe that it was about sales. So I wonder if calling all creeps had like a lot of sales or at least over time drew a lot of sales. Uh, so that, that could be a possibility. Um, uh, uh, legally, I don't know for sure though. So. That was very interesting.

[00:15:25] I mean, who knows, but, uh, I mean, that's again, like that's, there's so many goosebumps books that do, I feel deserve their time in the sun. Uh, you know, you got your, you got your night of the living dummies and you got your haunted mask and your monster bloods and all those ones. And those are definitely the most iconic, but like, God, give me the chicken, chicken graphic novel for God's sake. That's what I'm saying. It's scholastic. If you're listening, chicken, chicken. Chicken.

[00:15:53] This is funny, not to, um, uh, interrupt, I guess the conversation were happening, but I found this at, um, a used bookstore. Oh my God. And it's the only signed R.L. Stine book that I have. No way. It's chicken, chicken. You have the Holy Grail. Oh, yeah. What a rare book. Chicken. Oh my God. Yeah. You all wish you were me. I know.

[00:16:19] Well, let me tell you, like, I, if you haven't watched, like, I wouldn't say every episode, but most every episode, somehow we tie in chicken, chicken. It's like the running gag at this point for this podcast. That's cause it's a great book, dude. Yeah. Cause honestly, I think if that made it into like a real life horror film, like that's terrifying. Like that, that image is terrifying.

[00:16:47] Imagine that coming out of the dark or whatever. No one, no one wants to be chicken. Isn't the tagline on the front cover? It's a finger licking nightmare. It is. Oh my God. Yes. Oh, geez. Reader beware. I love that book. Reader beware. Reader beware. But, but back to the haunted mask.

[00:17:10] So yeah, of course, you know, you had the, you had the, the goal of taking the original story and, you know, adapting it into a different sort of, I don't want to say like, I guess you're adapting it from a book with no pictures to a book that's all pictures. Um, so you're having to change it into this different visual medium. Um, what was the process of adapting the book like?

[00:17:40] Uh, so there's a lot of things to consider with a very popular IP like this. I have to, um, as much as I would like to just go in and like kind of rip everything out and start anew and do my own, like straight from my imagination kind of thing. I, I do feel like it is respectful, um, and curt courteous to, uh, know what the general idea of this like IP is.

[00:18:07] So, you know, like how do people, when the people think of haunted mask, like what do they think of? What's the, I guess for lack of a better phrase, like what's the fandom like? What, uh, do, what are people going to expect from an adaptation of this that isn't going to alienate, um, older readers, but also is still going to draw in and excite younger readers. Um, and it's interesting that you say, yeah, like no pictures because there is, there is one big picture that is super important to. Very iconic. Exactly.

[00:18:36] One, it's extremely iconic picture, um, that, uh, I have to draw from, uh, that I, you know, cause some, some haunted mask adaptations, like, you know, not to throw the TV show under the bus, but don't really have that. Um, I guess, uh, like they're not really glued to that idea that is already presented in the Goosebumps, like general universe or like cultural, uh, like thought.

[00:19:05] So for me, I had to consider a lot of those things. So when I was writing the script for the adaptation, I read the book for sure. I watched the TV show. I went on the fan Wikipedia, you know, I'm like looking, making sure I'm, I'm, you know, covering all my bases and stuff. Like that. But after I kind of make a list of like, okay, well, what is, what do I think is necessary to tell the story? Um, from that aspect, I also dive into the story itself.

[00:19:34] What's necessary that makes the story work? What makes it tiny? You know, like what's that kind of, those kinds of things that people really hold onto and remember, um, as, as a story, uh, as a whole. There are some, uh, like I said earlier that, um, uh, Haunted Mask, I think was just born absolutely just right out of the box. Just, uh, like a great solid work.

[00:20:01] So I didn't really have to do a lot of, uh, surgery on it, I guess, which, um, when you're adapting anything cross medium is something that you have to consider, you know, like a movie's never going to be just like the book. The books never going to be like, uh, you know, whatever, however you want to put that. Uh, I think the, the changes that I remember making to Haunted Mask were usually just about pacing and flow.

[00:20:30] Uh, people have noticed that I switched the two big Carly Beth scaring incidents. There's that one at the very beginning where she eats a little sandwich with a worm in it. And then there's one later where her bullies, uh, make her think that she's getting bit by a spider.

[00:20:47] Um, and I, when I was reading that kind of trying to get into the mind of my audience, but also myself, but also fans that also like kind of like really, really trying to hone in on what would make the story, um, follow a really good arc that doesn't mess with it too much. I decided to switch those two scenes because to me, I felt like getting pinched and eating a worm is like sort of one of them feels a lot worse than the other. Yeah, for sure.

[00:21:16] So that, that was a really exciting, uh, change that I got to make pretty, pretty early on in the process. But, um, otherwise like other, other things that you have to do, you have to make sure that you know what all the sets, set pieces are going to look like all the locations. Um, you got to keep a lot of things consistent in the graphic novel. So she, I have to, you know, keep track of Carly Beth's little outfits and, uh, like what does her room look like from every angle?

[00:21:44] What does her house look like from every angle? Like what does the, you know, the Halloween shop and all, you know, there's a lot of things basically to have to keep, um, in mind. But luckily, you know, since I work with a publisher, they have a lot of, uh, continuity editors and copy editors to make sure that all of those things are being kept, um, in the perfect rhythm. So that when you finally, as the reader, get that book off the shelf, you're not having a hard time, uh, accepting it as an adaptation.

[00:22:13] Yeah. It sounds like a lot goes into the process of making graphic novel. Yeah. Um, yeah, I, I guess I, one thing I can ask is how, what's your speed like? Like, does that take a long time or are you on a time limit or? Oh, so last year when the Haunted Mask came out and was on the shelves, I also had another book come out called Tiffany's Griffin, which was written by my friend Magnolia Portisadell.

[00:22:40] And it's totally, totally a departure from, uh, you know, kid horror like Haunted Mask. It's a fantasy. Right. Um, and that book from us getting picked up by the publisher to it getting the shelves took four years. Wow. And it was a hugely long, um, process, uh, for Goosebumps, I finish one book a year. Wow.

[00:23:06] It was super speedy and I, um, have to figure out a lot of, uh, workflow efficient kind of things to make sure that I'm getting that out on time. Cause, uh, they always want, uh, Scholastic wants a book a year and they're also very specific about it being out in the fall season. Right. So, you know, we're pretty, pretty constantly going at, um, a very, uh, quick pace.

[00:23:34] So it, it is, uh, a lot of work and a lot of, uh, you just, you gotta be considerate of a lot of things basically. Yeah. That sounds stressful. Oh my goodness. Kind of. I mean, yeah. Comics is, uh, uh, working in comics, um, can be pretty, pretty arduous. Yeah. How do you handle that? That's an understatement.

[00:24:03] Well, I, I really like comics and I really like drawing. And that is, I think if you want to get into comics and get into drawing for a living, you have to really like it and you have to know that you're going to be putting a lot of your time into, uh, that every single day. And I am totally willing to do that. And so here I am. I mean, yeah, the effort's very evident with your book. It's just, the art is beautiful. I gotta say, I love the line, the line work.

[00:24:32] It's thank you. I, I love it. I was just geeking out. That process is probably my favorite part. Um, I think my favorite parts of the process are figuring out what the layouts are. So basically, um, what is going to be seen on each panel in the page, what the panel is going to look like. Yeah.

[00:24:53] Shape wise and like the location on the page and how the pages are oriented. I think that is like a really, really fun puzzle solving, uh, part of the comics making process. Really?

[00:25:05] I am obsessed with it. I think it's crazy. The really, a really unique thing actually about, um, adapting goosebumps as if you read the books, you'll know that the page turn is, or the chapter page turn is like a huge element of it that is always exciting, always frightening, always, you know, in every single book is that, is that like chapter page turn. And so, uh, I tried really hard to make sure that there were similar page turns in the comic version.

[00:25:34] So there's like, you know, Carly Beth gets grabbed in one page and then, or in one, yeah, at the end of one page. And, you know, in that split second before you turn the page, you're like, oh my God, what's, what's happening? And then you turn the page and it's, you know, it's just her bully or, or whatever. Um, yeah. So like right here, you can see like, this is the, the scene where she gets pranked and thinking that she got bit by a spider. And then this is the end of the page. Like you think she got bit by something and then you turn it over and you see that it was just, you know, the bully.

[00:26:03] So it's a great way to incorporate that sort of writing style. Yeah. Oh yeah, for sure. Cause, uh, that's not something that I really get to do for other, um, uh, other comics. Cause it's not really a super necessity. It can be really, really great for horror, but, um, it's, it's a really fun exercise knowing exactly when to like, uh, incorporate those page turns.

[00:26:30] I'm trying to find my favorite one. I think, I think my favorite one was, um, all of the masks rushing out of the door, uh, to that big two page spread. I think is one of my favorite, um, what's in the book. Uh, oh yeah, it's beautiful. Well, I gotta say probably my favorite part and I'm actually curious. Uh, I, I, it's been a while since I read the original book, but, um, one scene I absolutely love.

[00:26:56] Is when she tries to get the mask to go away and she finds the plaster head that her mom made. And then this is what happens. She's basically. Oh yeah. Of her faces, her regular face in the haunted mask. And it's like, and she herself has no face. So it's a very like internal battle visualized. And that's something that you can't really see in the original book because it's, you know, everything's in your imagination.

[00:27:26] I love that addition. I, I, like I said, I had to been a while since I read the original book. Was that an addition or was that in the original story? Maybe you can help me out with that too, Nick. Uh, so 100%. I forgot. I drew that until you opened it, uh, right now.

[00:27:43] Um, which is cause I've been, you know, I've been thinking about the other book. Uh, what happens is in the book to my memory, she puts on the plaster head and there is a sequence where she is in her head and just thinking about, uh, her current situation. I, I think some of that, uh, her, her seeing everything and her not having a face that is not, that is invented by me purely.

[00:28:09] Um, cause it's like you said, it's, it's her internal monologue. And when you're reading, you know, a prose book, that's all also in your head and, you know, you're seeing that darkness with her. Uh, but yeah, adapting that to a graphic visual medium, you kind of have to invent ways to get that across, uh, but in a different way.

[00:28:28] Um, so that I, I was thinking a lot about, I can't really remember where I drew the inspiration from specifically, but the, these like ideas being in your, uh, actually, um, there's a film.

[00:28:46] There's a movie called under the skin, uh, with Scarlett Johansson and Adam Pearson that, uh, they kind of go into, I, I, it's been years since I've seen that movie, but they go into like a, a void place where there's like water. And I think that's, that might've been where I, where I got that from. I don't, I can't remember at all. Uh, one, one key little, I guess, uh, thing that I do like about that sequence is, um, when she's pulling her own head off.

[00:29:15] I think, uh, it was a very subtle little horror thing that I was shocked that I, I got to do in the original, uh, drawings and the pencils rough stage. Uh, her skin, her like neck was actually coming off, but they were, they were like, oh, that's not too much. Oh, that would have been amazing. No. Just, just draw it in with a little Sharpie on your copy. Yeah, you're right. I'll put a little post-it note too. Yeah, exactly. A little crude, but you'll get the message across and that's what's in fact. Yeah, yeah. It's the director's cut version.

[00:29:46] There you go. I would have loved to see that. But yeah, that, that scene was just. Hashtag release the Gonzalez cut. But that, no, that I'm so glad that, that you, you confirmed that for me because it is a great visual thing. And the book is full of that because again, you're, you're going off. Here's the thing about the original books is you have that amazing cover art, but that is the only visual that you see.

[00:30:15] And you're essentially left to, and what I feel makes it so great for kids is that you're left to use your imagination to fill in the blanks. So you have the words, you think of like what the situation is. If there's like a big, big monster and they're describing like, you know, how like just ferocious it looks and how it has like three arms and four eyes. And it's like mouth is full of drool. Like you're, you're as a kid, you're thinking that.

[00:30:39] And when it comes to doing a visual medium, like a graphic novel, you have to make those visuals, but it's also different because the visuals are also what's telling the story and you just have little dialogue bubbles. So you kind of, it's almost like the complete mirror opposite of a regular Goosebumps book in terms of writing. So that's, what's always interesting to me, but those in those little additions to fill out those descriptions, I feel are great.

[00:31:08] And that's one of my personal favorites. I just thought it was a great, great visual representation. Thank you. Yeah. There's a, there's benefits and I guess I don't want to say pros and cons, but there are different ways that you can present info in pros that sometimes I get really jealous of because drawing is really hard. But also there's a lot of fun you get to do when you do get to draw. So I don't know.

[00:31:32] I do agree that it's, it's really, it's really fun and interesting and it's always really fun to figure that stuff out, you know, on the, on the author end. Absolutely. So we talked a little bit about this before we began recording, but I'm very curious to know. So you're of course under the umbrella Scholastic and this is Odrin's books we're talking about.

[00:31:53] So, so both in just sort of the adaption phase and also just general, you know, censorship, how much freedom are you given when you're drawing these visual representations? Uh, I want to say that, um, my editor I work with, Anna Bloom is pretty lenient with what I am allowed to depict. And she also makes sure that I am not missing anything, uh, like from the story.

[00:32:23] Cause she's pretty much the head of like all like goosebumps at graphics and Scholastic in general from what I know. Uh, so I think there are some things that they will tell me to reel back. Uh, I will explain this. It might be a little redundant. And if I already know, if you already know about the comics process, but everything is kind of turned in one step at a time. So I will turn in my script. Uh, if my editors look over it and they say everything's okay, they'll tell me.

[00:32:49] And if there's something that's a little iffy, they'll tell me, uh, after the script, I'll turn in my layouts, which are little tiny, small drawings of how the pages are going to be oriented. Uh, after that it's roughs or pencils, which is the sketch version of the comic. And then after that, once everything gets approved, it's onto the ink.

[00:33:08] So the line art, um, and throughout that, uh, process, there's a lot of times where, um, Scholastic or I will catch something and think, well, maybe that isn't, you know, clear enough for the story. Or maybe that's a little too, like yucky, like maybe we should pull back because of the age, um, uh, of the audience.

[00:33:33] Uh, but for the most part, uh, from what I can recall, this one was pretty, pretty easy. Uh, all of the elements were approved. Um, uh, I'm trying to remember. Yeah, I was actually a little surprised because, uh, for this version of the Haunted Mask, I was given the opportunity to design a bunch of, um, a bunch of the masks, like for the first time or add them.

[00:34:03] I'm pretty sure I added more, uh, that aren't described in the book. Uh, and I made them really scary and they let me draw these like hideous, ugly things. And so that was pretty fun. Um, and another thing that's great about working with someone who is kind of the, the queen of goosebumps is that I will say, for example, like I want to put this Easter egg from another book or from the show or from something in this page. Like, you know, and she'll pick up on it and be like, that's such a great idea. You know, that's great. Do that.

[00:34:34] Yeah, I will say that, um, I don't, there, there usually isn't much that needs to be censored or removed from a goosebumps book since they are, you know, for, for kids. If I, if I do any, um, actual like storytelling, uh, modernizations, it'll be like a character uses a phone or they text or, you know, they do a zoom call and stuff like that.

[00:34:59] But I try to keep the spirit and the storytelling as solid and as, uh, accurate, I guess, as possible. Yeah. I gotta say, I don't know how they let you get away with putting that in the book. I don't know either. That was the scariest thing of all. I know. That was really horrifying. It probably came to kids' nightmares with that. Super last minute joke also.

[00:35:20] Um, every single, at least for the past two books, like every single time I've turned in the, the final pages, there's been like one joke where I'm like, there's a joke here, but I don't know what it is yet. And then usually right sliding at the, you know, finish line. I'm like, I got it. I think for a while, I think in the script for that, it said, um, uh, funny, relevant, silly character. And I think for a while it was just going to be like five nights at Freddy's or something.

[00:35:48] And I was, it's like, I don't know what to put here. And then I thought of that. And I think it's, well, I don't, I don't know how, how, how Mr. Stein thought of it. So we'll hopefully knowing him, he probably cackled at that. So I'm sure he loved it. Well, I think, I think five nights at Freddy's ended up somewhere else in the book. I can't remember, but. Oh man. I hope so. They only like, since I can't get in trouble.

[00:36:16] Well, and I like the, I don't know if this is intentional or not, but I love the line afterward where the shopkeeper says, I think he's a TV star. And it's so funny because Carl Stein is notoriously bad at acting. Yeah. And he's not in the TV show either. From what I know. So it's like, it. Well, he is, he's, he does the introduction for like some of the like special episodes, but it's like super stilted.

[00:36:45] And obviously he was a cameoed in the movie. Oh, right. But in the new one, I don't think he's in the new one, which is what. But there was like one podcast that he's doing, but he's not really made much of appearance. But in the original 90s show, he's just like, he talks in the same sort of tone of voice, but he's just a very stupid actor. I'll never forget Terror Tower when it ends with him. Just be like, can somebody let me out? Let me out of here. Let me out of here. Yeah. Yeah. I think. Let me out of here.

[00:37:15] Well, that wasn't too scary. Was it? Yeah. I think they liked it. It's really good. Yeah. I also. It's very dorky. Somebody, I think a while back on somewhere on the internet, they were like, have you ever heard the musical? And so I listened to that through. There's a musical version of Phantom of the Auditorium, I think, but it's just called Goosebumps the Musical, which I thought was funny. And he has a part in there too on the soundtrack. Oh my goodness.

[00:37:44] Kids, it's me, your principal. I don't know what he says. He's Principal Stein. Yeah. Like, oh, this guy's everywhere. Well, he even appears in like the reprisal at the end, which is so funny because it's like, like, so fall if you dare. So it's just like. Yeah. Everyone's singing and he's just talking. Yeah. Right. I mean, if The Rock can do acting, I mean, and be the same in every movie, then Stein can too. Yes. You're so right.

[00:38:14] That's insane. Put R.L. Stein in Red 1 too. That's what I say. Yeah. Yes. I met him very briefly for a promo that we did together for Onomass Graphics. And we chatted very, very briefly before recording that segment. And I didn't know what to say. You know, I was like, oh, you know, I love Goosebumps. And he was like, I read your comic.

[00:38:43] You know, I had a lot of reasons not to like it, but I liked it. And that was like, wow. Wow. It's like, it's like one of the, this funny, like dry humor that I, I mean, he could have, maybe he was joking and maybe he wasn't. Maybe he did have a lot of reasons not to like it, but it's, it's one thing that I kind of keep on repeat in my head all the time when I'm making these books. I'm like, well, got a lot of reasons not to like it, but maybe people will like it. He's definitely got that sensation for him.

[00:39:13] It's, it's very much like humor is that for sure. Yeah. It's so funny. And I know we've mentioned it on here before, but it still gives me a good chuckle. Just because when we had Catherine long on here and she talked about meeting him, her description of him was a creepy Mr. Rogers laugh still to this day, because it's so true.

[00:39:36] Because when we met him in Wisconsin in October, 2023, you can't tell the difference. It's literally the same person who you watch, uh, in those introductions of the nineties show or, uh, on the specials or anything like that. Literally the same guy. And his humor is just that. He's like in all black. All black all the time. And you wonder like, if he's got a different personality behind closed doors, like his wife

[00:40:06] or something, but like, I don't know. Like, it's just so weird. It's like, does he just wake up? That's him. Like all the time. Yeah. He puts on like a persona once he gets that little black shirt on. Like probably. Yeah. If it wasn't, I mean, I always just remember how he always told me a story about, I've gotten so many fan mail fan letters, but my favorite has to be dear Mr. Stein. I've read 40 of your books and I think they're all boring.

[00:40:33] Dear Mr. Stein, you are my second favorite author. And refuses to collaborate. He says that in every interview. I went, when I was preparing for this to do my research, I was listening to so many, so many, and he either says that one that you just said, or he says the second favorite author. And he, the greatest thing about it is that like there's 30, you know, ish years of interviews with him, but he always says it like it just happened. It's just like the same exact way too.

[00:41:02] The inflection, everything always seems to be the same. You just tell it was something that stuck with him and he just loves, loves talking about it. Cause it probably, it's more probably for him to just make himself laugh, but yeah. Obviously he needs someone else to laugh too. He seems like a character for sure. He's a jokester. I mean, that's what he started doing was, you know, being the funny guy. So it's not surprising that he's got sort of that odd sense of humor to him, but it's, it's perfect. Like I, it's, I always say. It really suits to him. Exactly.

[00:41:30] Like I always say there's nobody that could have gotten goosebumps like Stein did. Like, you know, God, you know, God forbid the day that he does pass away. It's like, I hope they don't continue the books because there's nobody, not one person on the whole planet. That's going to replicate this sort of writing that he has. Yeah, exactly. Purely. His writing is very unique. And he was a pioneer. He was these goosebumps.

[00:41:55] People forget like before goosebumps, these sort of young, you know, horror for young readers did not really exist. It was, you know, Stephen King and like everything else, but like everything was more for young adults. When R.L. Stein came with goosebumps, that was like, that became popular. And then everyone else wanted to do the same thing. So he was a pioneer in that aspect. So it really crossed the bridge between young adult novels and, you know, children's novels.

[00:42:24] So that kids can have an outlet to actually read horror. Yeah, definitely. Well, and you know, he did Fear Street, which is basically the next step up. So it's like, you know, yeah, pretty much. He gets you with the goosebumps and then you go to Fear Street. So he just got his iron grip on you for that period. He has a very good range. Early, early goosebumps, as we've talked about in here before, and even mentioned a little bit when we talked about Welcome to Deadhouse.

[00:42:49] I mean, in the beginning, he didn't really know what to do as far as so much. What should I introduce comedy? Should it all be straight horror? So Welcome to Deadhouse was very dark compared to later stuff. It wasn't until probably maybe after Be Careful What You Wish For, I'd say he started getting a little more comedic stuff put into his book that he kind of found a groove there between horror and comedy.

[00:43:17] But yeah, it's very interesting to find that tone. And I know, like, since you're adapting a story that's, you know, so iconic, but you do have to probably cut some stuff out for what a graphic novel is, as we've discussed. So that kind of begs the question.

[00:43:40] I mean, like, I know through editing process, I mean, we talk about what can and can't be done because you're trying to reach a certain level of reader. But with a graphic novel, that kind of crosses a lot of different boundaries than just a standard, you know, youth book. So what is it guideline wise that you look at yourself and say, I need to do this? Maybe this is too far.

[00:44:07] I know you said that like you have editors and stuff that go through and say, okay, well, we need to dial this back or, or what have you, you know, like we talked about with the ripping the head off scenario. Um, but I mean, do you think about, is that something major you have to think about with every single little line that you write or image you try to depict? Uh, yeah, I think with, um, working for this audience, you do have a sense of responsibility

[00:44:36] sometimes, which is interesting because I both have to make this be a scary book, but also make it something that a child can come in and, uh, engage with in a way that isn't going to be super overwhelming. Because, you know, if a, if a kid's picking up Haunted Mask and they get scared and they get really freaked out, they, they can close it, you know, but sometimes you maybe like what

[00:45:04] you can't really control, I guess, like what really, really sticks with, with a kid. So you, you want to kind of sort of toe a line between, uh, what a visual can be and what, uh, what it should be. I guess, I don't know. I don't know if I'm kind of making sense here or even answering your question. So I'm sorry for that, but, um, there's, uh, I, I basically try to stick with what is

[00:45:32] in the text, uh, unless like I get, um, free reign because there's, like I said, like, uh, cutting out a scene or, or adding a scene. That's, um, something that I kind of have to weigh. Like if I'm adding a scene, how do I make sure that it is tonally consistent with the text of the book that I'm adapting? Uh, so if for example, in Haunted Mask, I'm showing a bunch of like creepy faces, I'm like,

[00:46:01] okay, well I can do a creepy face. So that's, you know, that's why like, Carla Beth doesn't have a face because that's really creepy. Um, but yeah, I don't know if that answers, answers your question so much. So, uh, it's, it's. It comes on a little bit. I always kind of wonder like, cause we had Susan Lurie on here and you know, she edits a lot of Stein or actually she's edited all of Stein's books as we found out from welcome to dead house to everything current.

[00:46:28] Um, and I kind of had a similar question to her, but when you think about it, um, it is left to a child's imaginations with words, but pictures are visual and they can stick with someone longer, especially at a younger age. So that's why I was kind of wondering, I was like the, there's a main difference. What you're reading and imagining yourself compared to what you actually visually are seeing.

[00:46:52] Um, you know, it's one thing to say, read the shining by Stephen King, but then go and watch the shining, uh, with Jack Nicholson and get a totally different visual standpoint. So, you know, images are iconic in their own right. So that's why I was kind of wondering, I was like, do you toe a line with your images, um, more so, even though you want to push the boundary a little bit more?

[00:47:20] Um, yeah, no, I, I totally get what you're saying now. Absolutely. Um, I will say that I think there are certain rules to this audience, um, where you want to make sure that the characters are going to be safe. Like I'm not going to be actually, you know, chopping any kids' heads off or anything. It's not like something, uh, what I like to, and I, here's, here's a rule that I keep for

[00:47:46] myself also in my own, um, horror, uh, my personal work that I do, which is a more mature horror comics. Uh, I try to make horror imagery be something that can't happen in real life in a lot of ways. And I guess this is maybe just my own sort of, uh, like compass that guides me when I'm making, uh, work.

[00:48:12] But, uh, for example, in Haunted Mask, like, um, none of that is real. Like in Monster Blood, like slime isn't real and it's, slime is real. Slime is real. Slime is real. Not like that. Living slime. Slime is real. Not like that. Like the threats, there are threats in these books that can harm the characters, but I want to make sure that if you're a kid reading it, that might be something that you think about

[00:48:38] a lot or that frightens you visually, but it's not going to be, uh, a threat that can really harm you in real life. I, I don't know if that's kind of, if I'm making any sense here, because I, uh, if I can think back to something that I thought was super real and was going to get me, um, I, when I was a kid, I, I watched, um, uh, a couple scenes from Child's Play and I watched a couple

[00:49:06] scenes from It, the limited TV show with, uh, Tim Curry. And I got those wires crossed in my head and I thought Chucky was going to come out of my bathroom drain and get me. Like for years, I thought that. And so there, there is kind of a, kind of a really, um, interesting sort of thought that I, that I have all the time because there is a chance that something that I draw and

[00:49:32] get tied up in a kid's brain and be something that, uh, really is, you know, quite terrifying and quite frightening. But, um, I, I hope that if a child comes to my books, uh, or my adaptations of these books, they will be able to read them all the way through and see that the characters are okay

[00:49:54] at the end, or they will be in a spot where they can close it and put it away and never have to see it again. Uh, because I do think that kids really, really like creepy stuff and they really, really like horror and they like being able to engage with it on their own terms. Uh, as a child, people, you know, you're surrounded by scary stuff all the time, um, in real life.

[00:50:21] But if you're approaching it as a kid and you get to see these fantastical and like, sort of like heightened, campy, ridiculous kind of versions of, of horror that can't hurt you in real life, um, to me, that's, that's something that I find very important because they're able to engage with it on their own level and do what they see fit with it. You know, uh, that's something I'm very passionate about actually a subject.

[00:50:50] Um, I will see, I suppose in a few years, if somebody emails me and they'll say, Hey, I read this book when I was seven and I hate you. Well, it's like, and that's very much how Stein thinks too, is because he's like, I want to write things that can like, you know, that children are going to find interesting and maybe scary, but they're also going to know that like, it's not plausible in the real world.

[00:51:17] And I think what also helps is that he, once again, like mirrors it through the lens of what kids deal with in real life, whether it be sort of like, maybe their parents don't listen to them when they feel they should, or they're having issues with bullies, or they're having issues with school, or they're not fitting in with friends. Like just to name a few kids go through those kinds of problems and through the lens of horror, you can not only like create something that's going to relate to them, but may

[00:51:47] actually help them through those problems because you see a kid, you know, fictional or otherwise, you know, a kid who is going through those sorts of things. And it sort of is almost like a kid empowerment sort of thing, in my opinion. So it's, it's a great way to write horror for kids because, you know, it's something that a kid knows is not real, but they're interested. They'll read into it anyway. Yeah. That's, I mean, that's the best case scenario for me.

[00:52:14] Uh, like I said, like, I'm not going to know really what the response is. And I don't think when you write anything for kids, you don't really, at least now, uh, in this day and age, you don't really know what the response is until they get a little older. Um, so until they download Twitter, until they, until they get an email and they're, uh, you are my second least favorite artist of all time. I always say, I'm so glad I didn't have social media when I was seven. Let's just say it like that.

[00:52:44] Oh my gosh. Yeah, me too. Yeah. What, I guess, uh, within the, in the context of like a danger, um, in, in a visual medium, I think all the time about, uh, I did a drawing event one time and this like teeny tiny little child came up to me and it was like, uh, can you, again, it's always five nights at Freddy's. Can you draw me five nights at Freddy's? And I was like, Whoa, like, uh, they were, they started telling me about stuff and about

[00:53:11] how like, they've got knives in their mouths and they're chewing people up and stuff. And I was like, you are so small. Oh, wow. That is something real. That franchise is like so geared to like advertising towards children. And yet, like when you actually get into the war, it is messed up. It's insane. Really scary looking. Um, so what I, it's maybe not the healthiest or the most, I guess, ethical thing to do,

[00:53:39] but I always think, well, I'm not making five nights at Freddy's. Yeah, there you go. That's a good way to look at it. It is. Yeah. At least it's not five nights at Freddy's. But then, then also I say that now, but also I just remember that graphics also has five nights at Freddy's comics. I don't know what's going on in there though. So I don't know. Scholastic's been really, you know, what's so funny is that technically they do have a five nights at Freddy's book series. That is very, from what I've heard, very goosebumps ask. It's called Fazbear Frights.

[00:54:09] Really? Um, yeah, it's really weird. I haven't read any of them, so I don't, I don't have any opinion on them, but it's like, it's just so weird that that franchise, you know, considering again, the lore, somebody who's more with it is like, wow. And kids just eat this up. Apparently. Yeah. I know. I'm surprised. So maybe, you know what? They love horror. They don't care about the possibility of things. Maybe they just want to see, they just want to see scary stuff.

[00:54:38] Kids like to be, uh, yeah, I think they do. I think kids do really like to be scared and they like to be, uh, they like to learn about creepy things. And, uh, cause I, I certainly remember being that way when I was a kid, like even, um, there was a store in the mall when I was very young that had a Chucky doll, uh, hanging up or like sitting very tall up at the ceiling. And I remember being like, no, I don't want to walk by that store cause Chucky's there.

[00:55:06] But I was like, but you'd still look at him. Like I still wanted to look at him. I don't know. It's such a weird. Humans have a weird curiosity for things that are dangerous. Like, you know that something is bad and dangerous and like very risky to you. Even if you think that it could get you killed, there's like something in you that's just like, but maybe I should. Yeah.

[00:55:32] Like that's why there's the same curiosity, kill the cat. That's why there's warning labels on things that say, do not eat this, even though it's a clear thing you shouldn't eat or drink. Please. Yeah. Right. And I would rather probably have a thing on there. Don't eat. Yeah. I would rather a child read a, a, a goosebumps book with a scary picture in it than drink bleach. Yes. Quote me on that.

[00:56:00] Well, you know, unless it, unless you do the adaptation, it came from beneath the sink and it was bleach. And then again, there's that cross referencing that we can do for this. So. Oh man. No, I'm going to quote that. No, please. I'd rather a kid read a goosebumps book than drink. I'm kidding. Yeah. That, oh, that reminds me. I know. I know he hates it. Start a movement. I know he gets so deeply upset about it, but there was that one time where RL Stein was

[00:56:30] tweeting a bunch of things and they were all separated. And one of the pieces says, um, what does it say? It says like, it is always under any circumstances. Okay. To bully a child or something like that. I can't remember. I would have to look it up again, but I, it reminds me of that like funny little like sound quotes and sound bites. Like I definitely. I always going to be. I feel like he totally means that though. Yeah, me too.

[00:56:59] He would be like, yeah, I said that. I can see him learning a child. Bullying at goosebumps. Yeah. Bullies always get their comeuppance at goosebumps. That is true. I don't think each other really believes that. Definitely little asshole kids get their comeuppance. Oh man. I do have to ask. So you mentioned earlier that you, you know, you tried your best to implement a lot of Easter eggs in this, in the book, you know, relating to, uh, other goosebumps books, the TV show

[00:57:29] and, uh, you know, just stuff like that. What, what would you say are some of like your favorite Easter eggs you implanted? Uh, I don't know if I can call it my favorite because it's given me a lot of frustration, but I had this idea with graphics. Like what if in every book we hide a little drawing of curly? Um, it's in the back. It says, fine curly. He looks like this. Uh, that was a kind of a last minute addition.

[00:57:56] Um, that I regrettably, regrettably did not get to clarify. Uh, I think a lot of children and adults go into the book thinking that, um, that this, this drawing of curly is hidden in the book. That is false. It is a depiction of curly that is hidden in the book. That is, I thought it was a great idea, but it was, it, uh, I drew it so extremely small

[00:58:25] that actually during the first few passes of, uh, the final version of the book, he was hidden by a speech bubble. And I'd be like, we can't do that because if he, if he's hidden, nobody's going to find him. And then the, they move the speech bubble book comes out. Nobody's found it. Oh, people, people always come to me and they're like, where's Carly? Are you lying to me? Are you playing a trick? I will be completely transparent. I did a, uh, you know, I always do a post asking our fans, you know, submit questions

[00:58:53] for our guest interviews and I think I got at least four instances of people asking me, can you please ask where the curly is hidden? Yes. The truth will come out now. I, um, oh dear God. Uh, and I thought I was so clever too. I was like, they're never going to find that. And they never found it. Um, so, uh, I deeply, deeply have to apologize to all of you.

[00:59:16] Uh, he is on page 111 panel four in the back of the room on the wall as a mask next to the speech bubble. There. He is so small. Sorry. Oh my goodness. People of Goosebumps, forgive me. I made it easier at Monster Blood, I promise. Oh dear. Oh dear.

[00:59:46] I love that. Yeah. That's, oh dear. I, it's so funny. I, he's, he's much easier to find a Monster Blood, I promise. Um, and I do have to give special shout out to this mask cause that is one directly from the TV episode, uh, from the 90s show. Yeah. Oh wow. I really, I really wanted to, I think, um, in that first, I think there's a couple of shots of the mask room where the very top shelf is always the classic TV show masks.

[01:00:13] Um, because I think the, the craftsmanship on, on those are really cool. I think they're iconic. Um, I'm trying to find myself right now. Uh, yeah, there's, uh, I, I feel like I, I really had to pay tribute to those masks. And, um, I think, I think you mentioned also that you, that you know who the designer is, right? Uh, Ron Stefanik, who worked on the TV show. Ron, all the masks were designed by different people. Oh really?

[01:00:43] Um, yeah. So it was Ron's team, but Ron did the haunted mask itself. Um, but all the other ones were modeled after the seven deadly sins and done by people from his, uh, from his team. Ron, all the other ones were like, oh, look at that. So right up there. Yeah, they are. Yeah. The, the unloved, uh, as they were in the TV show. I just love that. Like, I just love that sort of. That's amazing.

[01:01:12] I'm trying to think of any other, uh, Easter eggs. Um, oh, I, when she first goes into the, uh, this is, is, is, is not quite an, an Easter egg pertaining to goosebumps, but there's a pair of little, like Chucky dolls in the bottom of page 44 that are supposed to be, uh, me and my fiance. But, um, I, I saw somebody ask if it was, um, uh, slappy's wife.

[01:01:42] I was like, wow. Yeah. Uh, you know, you can believe that. Well, that's me. I also love this right here. Is that a Bart Simpson mask right there? Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We had to, we had to do, uh, an edit, um, for that to make it look less like Bart. Oh my gosh. That's why you have like several, several runs of a copy editing because sometimes you'll draw like a little thing and it'll be like, well, we can't have it look like this character

[01:02:12] because they're going to get after us or, you know, change the colors on this. Yeah. It's, um, there are some things with, uh, I guess licensing and names of things that I don't quite understand even after being, I guess I've only been in publishing for a little while, but for example, um, at this point in time, uh, I named job Nintendo and monster blood because I think there's a Nintendo name drop in the book.

[01:02:40] Uh, and that wasn't, wasn't messed with, but, um, yeah, like the Bart Simpson thing we had to not, uh, better make it look like legally distinct as, as Sabrina says. That was a little joke I made. Yeah. They're very strict at that, huh? Yeah. Because, uh, you want to kind of err on the safe side. Um, yeah. A lot of, uh, places can be pretty, uh, strict about that kind of thing.

[01:03:09] So they're, they're trying to keep me safe and they're trying to keep Scholastic safe as well. Uh, cause yeah. Yeah. Um, you know, legal, legal stuff is no joke, but I, I'm still, I'm still looking. I know that there's more because I, it's, it's just been like such a minute, um, since I've drawn this book. So I'm like looking, looking at things in here. I'm like, Whoa, when did I draw that? It's like your own Easter egg now.

[01:03:38] Uh, what, another, another like personal Easter egg, I guess, uh, page. Oh, actually. Yeah. Yeah. I, I, this little scene with, um, the grandma on the lawn, I think is sort of a, an, a kind of adaptation of a scene from the book where they go into somebody's house and Carly Beth is, uh, showing her mask to like somebody's grandma and she's really unimpressed, but putting

[01:04:07] them outside, I didn't, one, I didn't really want to draw another interior. Oh yeah. And two, this actually happened to my great grandma once, uh, she was sitting outside on a lawn chair, uh, during Halloween and somebody asked if she was, uh, like an animatronic. Oh my gosh. No. A little part where Sabrina's like, is that, is that like another lawn decoration?

[01:04:34] Cause the guy in the book has a bunch of, uh, you know, like animatronics all over the place, but no, it's just somebody's grandma. Someone's grandma. I love that. Oh my gosh. Ouch. I do want to ask. What a fun thing to add. Yeah. Actually that, uh, that this whole scene in particular, I think is a great example of just like, um, the balance that you have in doing the art between the scary and then going back

[01:05:03] to sort of the funny because the haunted mask itself, you know, there's many moments where it's drawn as like very creepy, very disturbing, like monstrous, but then sometimes you need to just kind of show the sort of the sillier emotions. Yeah. I, I, uh, I wanted to make sure that the mask was, uh, plausibly gross enough that you wouldn't want your face to be stuck like that forever. Oh yeah. And probably Beth would be drawn to it, um, in the, you know, in the store.

[01:05:33] But I also, there was a couple of times where I draw her in the basket. She's so cute. I just like, Oh, you're my little, my little bitty green baby. Um, but, uh, that was really fun. Like, um, knowing that I had that freedom also, I think was great because in the TV show, they have that beautiful, the original nineties TV show, they have that beautiful sculpted mask, uh, that does move with, you know, with her eyes and with her mouth.

[01:06:00] Um, but in practical effects, even, and at the time you have those kinds of limitations. Uh, and in, in the comics, I was able to, you know, squash and stretch that, you know, that drawing and that design as, as far as I was able to, um, one thing that I, I don't really talk about too much is, um, in the, in the middle part of the book, when she, Carly

[01:06:28] Beth decides to get revenge, uh, on Chuck and Steve, like the mask actually goes through a second transformation. Um, it gets a little pointier and it gets a little grosser looking, uh, but yours, you know, get a little scarier, uh, stuff like that. I, the teeth, you know, I, I was really, really excited to draw all of the different forms. Even like these drawings right here, you have like that sort of face. And then this one, and that's like covered up by the shadow is really, really good.

[01:06:59] It's like, I love the emotions. And it's so good. And the squishing and squashing that you do with the mask, it's fantastic. Like it's grotesque, but also just like, it's just, wow. I loved it. Like a lot. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Well, I loved it. Yeah. The shadow panel, I really liked a lot because I liked the fact that like on Jacobus's work, the eyes are glowing and it's something that I kind of wish they would have done even in the 90s show.

[01:07:25] Um, because I think that concept is really creepy when you like it. Well, Stephen King's, uh, that, the it movie that came out in 2017 with Bill Skarsgård. Um, they had that moment where he was in like that butcher warehouse scene or whatever, but it was dark on his face, but his eyes were glowing. And I always thought, oh my gosh, imagine the Hanum mask that way though. You know, you can kind of see, you can see the teeth and the drool, but you can't see the eyes or anything except they're glowing. Oh, I love that panel.

[01:07:53] So yeah, I think that would be actually terrifying to see if we could get out that in the 90s show. That would have been so cool. Yeah. Something like that would have been amazing. Yeah. So that was really cool panel on this, uh, in this graphic novel. And I will say like, um, some of the changes that you did make, um, they, I'm sure they just fit like your, your story's narrative better from compared to the book.

[01:08:21] Cause obviously some things, like you said, had to be cut. Um, and some things were switched around, obviously compared to the book and this, as we discussed. Um, so one of the things that like, uh, I wrote down here and I was just kind of curious about, uh, in the book, um, the duck costume was at the mall and everything like that.

[01:08:47] So like, is that something like you wanted to keep? Cause like the duck costume is representative in the 90s show, I think pretty well, but I don't remember being exactly like how the book did it. Yeah. Um, I think she first saw it in the show. I'm pretty sure it was at the mall. Yeah. Yeah. Her mom made it. Yeah. Rather than that. So, I mean, like there's a few like little scene differences like that, which isn't really big deals to cut out, I guess.

[01:09:17] So. Oh yeah. What was, what was the decision process? Like, I guess using that as an example, like what did you decide, like was important and not important to keep into your story? Uh, I'm going to go back to it real quick cause I, I don't, I don't, saw that ducky costume. Okay. Yeah. So in, in, in this, in the graphic novel, uh, I made you a ducky costume for Halloween.

[01:09:44] Uh, I sort of wanted to reinforce the, uh, character of Carly Beth's mom being crafty. So like by her making the, the plaster head and her making the costume, it, it sort of like really reinforced the idea that like, she's willing to be really creative and make things for, uh, you know, for her daughter.

[01:10:11] Um, so that, I think that was why I thought I, I, I thought she made it in the book also. I think, I mean, I went through so many like scripts, script drafts of like, I, sometimes I get, uh, some elements confused, but yeah, I, I definitely wanted it to be a little more like a homemade thing. Um, so that it would be another, yet another thing that, uh, her mom does for her out of love.

[01:10:36] Um, which is, yeah, I try to make sure that if there's a part in the story that I can reinforce to aid the story, I will make that, you know, kind of a, an edit, um, to just, I guess just to strengthen, uh, the parts that I already keep. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, like I imagine it was probably changed this way.

[01:11:06] Cause I think in the book they saw it at the mall and I think the 90s show, uh, read to that, but I mean, there's still malls today, but they're not quite as popular as they were back then due to online shopping and stuff. And this one was seemed to be set more in modern day rather than say the nineties, uh, you know, when the book can, the original episode came out. So, um, I imagine those types of changes were made just due to the fact that you said you was a modern day. Cause I think you put in this new one, it wasn't the mall.

[01:11:35] It was like a, it was like on TV or, or something like a, or a singing competition or something. Um, yeah. Oh yeah. It's they saw, yes, yes. No, you're totally correct. Uh, you saw that ducky costume on a singing show and said it would be a funny idea. I think I was like, yeah, no, you're, you're a hundred percent on the money because, uh, I, I mean, maybe kids still go to malls. I don't, you know, I don't really, I really don't think so, but maybe, you know, they could,

[01:12:01] uh, I was trying to think of like a more plausible thing that would read a little easier for somebody, uh, in, in the book's audience. So the, at the time I was drawing it, uh, you know, shows like, um, the Masked Singer were really big. Uh, so for me, I was like, okay, well, where would you see a duck costume on TV? Like what are they, they're not gonna watch like QVC, you know?

[01:12:28] Uh, so I, I went with that and, and little, little tiny tweaks like that are things that, um, end up, I feel like updating, uh, the story, you know, there's like the, instead of a phone call, they have a video call, not only because, you know, computers, but because, uh, in drawing form, it's a little easier to communicate and you can have these two characters in one room, even though they're separate.

[01:12:53] Uh, but, you know, it's a little easier to draw them when like one character is like on a screen, but they're, you know, they're in different places and it communicates that pretty easily. Um, I don't think I give Carly Beth a cell phone. Um, I can't remember. I think I, I thought very early on that there was a few parts where it could be like, oh, I called up Sabrina on my cell phone. And then I was like, well, that kind of, kind of gives it a little, because then like, why wouldn't her mom just call her on the cell phone and be like, where are you? You know, like that, like, like cuts off the story at the end.

[01:13:24] So when she's like, hey, I called Sabrina's house. Where are you? Like, where have you been all night? If she has a cell phone that, uh, weakens that story element. So there's certain things where I am updating them for modern, uh, sensibilities, because I think it is easier to draw, which is one thing. And there are certain things that I think I put in only because it will reinforce the storytelling that I'm trying to achieve.

[01:13:54] Uh, I actually, going back to the Easter eggs, I can't believe I forgot about this one. On the very first page, there's the Jack of the Jack. That's from attack. Oh my gosh. You're right. I was like, I totally forgot about that one, but, uh, I actually wanted to go back quick to the, the sort of just the art style and just like how it can, uh, you know, go to being cartoony at times.

[01:14:19] Cause there's a bunch of like, I don't want to say, I guess there's a bunch of times where the art style becomes very, very chibi and cartoony and comedy. And three of my favorites are actually not only at the beginning, but they're all from Sabrina. Like, I just love how you, like, Oh, I love Sabrina, my daughter. Yeah. First one I want to point out is this one right here. Yes. I love her face there. Oh my God. Yeah.

[01:14:47] It's so funny. And then on the next page, there's this one right here. Oh, yeah. And then she's pouting. Yeah. Yeah. She's so cute. In the, in the book, um, Sabrina's obviously like the kind of cool older sister character or, or not, not necessarily older sister, but, uh, you know, she's, she's a little more

[01:15:17] mature than Carly Beth. That's like reinforced a few times in the, in the text. Uh, so I wanted her to be kind of a little more expressive and a little more confident. And so she's always, she's always goofing on Carly Beth and she's making these cute little faces and doing all sorts of silly things. Uh, this little, when she comes out of the panel and this page and she's just like, ah, told you so. Like, I think. Oh yeah. I love that. So good. She's just so smug. Yeah.

[01:15:44] It's like kind of a little, oh, I like that drawing. Oh my God. You know, it almost looks like the sad SpongeBob meme, doesn't it? I was about to say. Yeah. This is what I mean. Like coming back to this book, I'm like, Hey, you know, cause sometimes when you're drawing, when you're in the middle of a book, you're like, this looks like garbage. This is going to be the worst thing I've ever drawn in my life. And then like a year or two later, you're like, yeah, it's pretty good. I love it. Yeah. I kind of, you know, it's, it's the weird thing. That's how it usually goes.

[01:16:14] Yeah. There's even like, it's just a great way to like get the comedy across. I love this, this panel right here. This just a little, little box here at the bottom. Oh yeah. He steals the mask and it's just the shopkeeper being like, can I get you a bag at least? Yeah. That's, I think it's straight from the book. She's, he says that at the end of a chapter and any point, this is a, this is a secret, a comic making secret. I'll tell everybody right now. Any point where I really don't want to draw a whole page.

[01:16:44] I'll do a special page like that. So I think there's one like with just like a worm on it. I was like, I really, really don't want to draw another page right now. Oh, this is going to be a, a, a page that serves as, yeah, there it is. There you go. This is going to be a page that serves as both a time break and a little break for the reader.

[01:17:08] But it also serves the very important purpose of I'm tired and I don't want to draw a whole page right now. I think there, there's probably like a proper term for what you call like a page with just a panel or a drawing like that. But I, yeah, so it's a good little break. No, the, the, the facial expressions are just like some of the best parts of the, the entire art style because it goes between. They're fantastic. The, the serious moments, the funny moments, the scary moments.

[01:17:38] Like it's, it's such a great, like rollercoaster of emotions and it can really work like to the advantage of the storytelling. Thank you. Definitely. I, um, I actually wanted to ask if you had any, any inspiration with anime or any type of cartoons? Cause it's very, yeah. What type of anime were you inspired by? Yeah.

[01:17:58] So I, um, I think I did at the very beginning of, uh, the development of this, uh, of this comic, I did a bunch of studies of stuff that I thought would visually tonally work for, uh, you know, goosebumps. So I did a lot of studies of old, like nineties, early two thousands, Jamie Hewlett behind Tank Girls and Gorillas.

[01:18:25] I did studies for, um, oh gee, uh, like Satoshi Kohn is, is one of my influences. So I did studies that cause, uh, his, his works are usually very, very expressive and very volumetric in ways that I think are grounded and real. Um, but yeah, I mean, growing up, like I was super big on, uh, manga. Like when I went to the public library, I'd be checking out, you know, goosebumps in one hand and like a bunch of manga in the other.

[01:18:55] That's how it should be. Yeah. That's, that's a huge thing. Um, I can, I like have the ability to like really, really pump up like cartooniness and in like sort of a Western, uh, traditional manner and like, uh, manga influenced manner. And so I felt like I would have to have a pretty happy medium for an American audience, uh, primarily. Right.

[01:19:21] Um, but also someone who's coming from other graphic stories, like, uh, the babysitters club, you know, things like that. So there's, it's a little restrained sometimes I would say. Um, but I, I try to make it as fun for me as possible, uh, while still finding that, uh, appropriateness for the, uh, audience. Uh, hmm.

[01:19:44] I will say that I have, uh, accidentally, uh, seen a few comments of people saying, oh, this, you know, anime nonsense and my goosebumps. I'm like, I'm sorry. What? I can't change who I am. Oh, it's fine. It's fine. I'm not, it's not gonna be everybody's, it's totally not gonna be everybody's cup tea and I don't seek out those comments, but sometimes, uh, as a person who is a goosebumps fan, as a person who, uh, is researching goosebumps, like all the time, sometimes, you know, that,

[01:20:11] that shows up like in a Google search or, you know, on a comment or something. And I just have to. Okay. Yeah. You can't say, have your free speech, say whatever you want about my art. Just don't, don't say it to me. I just won't look. I'm standing over there. Yeah. I'm not gonna look. Say whatever you want. I'm not gonna look. I'm covering my ears. I just work here. Okay. I need, I totally forgot about these little comics at the end. Oh, I love those. I have to give you a mention to these. These are awesome.

[01:20:39] And I love this final one here. Oh, yes. That one is so, it's kind of cruel. Um, so that one, yeah. Speaking of manga influence, um, you know, reading, growing up, reading stuff like, uh, Fullmetal Alchemist, you know, for example. Oh, yeah. Like, that's the thing I can think of. You know, they had those, uh, uh, bonus comics in the back. And so I talked to my editors at Scholastic. I was like, can we have, like, little bonus content stuff in the back?

[01:21:07] Like, little jokey, like, in-universe kind of, uh, comics. And they thought it was a great idea. Pop her head off. Oh, that was easy. See you later. Yeah, that was so cute. One of the first, like, sometimes, um, you know, when, when this is, like, your whole, like, taking up your whole day and your whole life, like, sometimes you draw a little, like, fun thing. So that actually started as just a drawing in my sketchbook where Charlie Beth just pops her head off and there's a bone, like, sticking out.

[01:21:36] And then he's just, he's just, yeah. But, like, his face. Little face. Right. And then, like, drawing, drawing, like, depicting myself also interacting with the shopkeeper, I think, is just a very silly, goofy thing to do. Just, like, relax. He's like, yeah. I wanted to just say shut up so bad, but I thought shut up was a little rude. I don't know if it is anymore. I feel like when I was, when I was younger, like, words like shut up and words like crap were, like, upper tier children bad words.

[01:22:04] It was, like, on the same level as, like, some of, like, really bad swear words. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I think in Monster Blood, a character gets to say that something sucks and I'm like, how am I getting away with that? They could say that? I know. I like a new age. You would say, like, shut up. And as a kid, everyone else is just like, oh! Yeah. They just cursed. You can't say that. I'm telling.

[01:22:29] I do want to also bring up this, this little bonus stuff, but this was focusing on the cover art. Yes. And, you know, we love talking about just sort of, like, the different kind of cover art designs that come about. What was it like, you know, getting to design the cover for the book? So it was a super, super nerve-wracking process. This is the first book in a new series.

[01:22:58] It's also, like, big intellectual property. You want to make a really good impression. You want to also make something that stands out enough on the shelf so that people are interested in it. A very new thing that I learned about on this book was that it's important as a bookseller to make sure that your cover can be noticed as a thumbnail on a digital marketplace.

[01:23:26] So it has to stick out both on the shelf in real size, be interesting, and also be seen well and be attractive, like, when it's very, very small. So think of, like, Amazon or Target or something, like, a website like that. These, let me see these process ones. I had a bajillion ideas that I all thought would be pretty cool. Actually, we had someone share recently an uncorrected proof of this that had slight variation from what actually got released on the cover.

[01:23:56] Yeah, so the uncorrected proof actually had the mask's mouth, like, pretty open, right? Yeah. If I'm not mistaken. And then I think this one, it was more closed. And then there was a few other minor details. Oh, wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow. I didn't realize that made it out there. Yeah, that was... We're not supposed to have that. Wow. Wait a minute. Those are not for sale. The uncorrected proof. So... Yes! Yes!

[01:24:26] Wow! Uh, I think I got a few copies of that. That's called, like, a galley copy or an advanced reader copy. Yeah. Shout out to our buddy Elvis. Oh, look at that. Goosebumps. He was able to get... Shut up, Elvis! I think I follow you on Instagram. Yeah. You're lucky I haven't logged in in a month. But... Like, it's even, like, not in color yet. Yeah! Yeah, yeah. Oh, wow! Yeah, that's... I sold you that and gave me their name.

[01:24:56] I need to know. That's so cool! We had a tease in the back of the uncorrected proof for the next one. That was very, very late in the game. We took that out. Um, I can't remember why. I think in this one, it's just, like, ads for the other Goosebumps, things like that. Yeah, I remember that version of the cover. Actually, I was given a picture of... They were like, can you make it look like one of the gremlins from Gremlins? I was like, yeah, okay. It was, like, a picture...

[01:25:25] I can see the inspiration, yeah. It was, like, one of the gremlins, like, it's mouth wide open. One of my editors sent me. Yeah. Make it look like that! Like, okay, cool. Um... The funny thing about this cover art page... Um... I really, really, really liked this one up on the top, where it's kind of her at an angle. Uh, and she's sort of lifting the mask to put it on. And they asked for a more straight-on view. Uh, and at the time, I was really resistant to it.

[01:25:54] I thought, you know, like, I've... We've narrowed it down to these designs, and I really like this, like, sideways one, which the wall of masks is up there. Uh, and she's, like, kind of, like, apprehensive-looking, uh, sort of the reader. Um, and as we were working on the process of finalizing the cover, this final cover really, really grew on me. And now, like, whenever I see it, I... I am, you know, so, so glad that we went with that one.

[01:26:24] Um... So, as the illustrator, I... Um... Don't actually do the... Do the final colors for the book. The colors are done, um, in Haunted Mask by Corey and Amanda Barba. And they, uh... Will... They basically made the cover what it looks like, uh, now. So, I... I pretty much only drew the line art. And... They, uh, do all the...

[01:26:54] All the colors. So, when I... When I finished the line art, I was still kind of on the fence. I was, like, I don't know if I really, really think that's a... A striking or strong image. And then when Corey and Amanda sent back the colors, I... I was, like, wait, this is... You know, this is... This looks great! This is... Like, the... Yeah. The job and the work of a colorist, I feel like, cannot be understated on, uh, comics like this. Because they're working on, you know, the same, if not quicker deadlines than I am.

[01:27:22] And they have to, uh, finalize all this stuff. And they have to keep things consistent with the colors. And, oh, gee. I... I really do think it's... It's, like, some of the most fun things ever is to send in that final line art and then be able to see the colors later and get just blown away, uh, all over again. And then... Yeah! Final... Final cover with the logo and everything looks great. I... Our team keeps kind of getting shuffled around.

[01:27:51] So I'm trying to remember who did design... Okay, it was Larson McSwain who did the book design. So that was, uh, their idea to do the little mask on the spine. And the great, great, great, great, uh, hard cover. Um, the back of the hard cover with that one drawing you were showing earlier. I think that's such a good idea. Oh, wow! It's so... It's just so cool. Um, I wish... One thing, if I had one critique that nobody... Nobody, uh, back to Glasgow is gonna get mad at me about, I think, uh, is...

[01:28:18] I wish that there was the little tail or the top, like, slime on the logo. I don't know why that's different. Oh, that would be great. Because for the TV show, they still have that thing. That little... Little thingy on top. I don't know what you call it. The new one... Oh, the little, like, shorter... But, like, you need the one that goes all the way. Oh, yeah. The Disney Plus one was, like, pretty much non-existent. Look at the original books. Oh, I agree. It's the original book logo. The large tail at the top.

[01:28:46] And the 90s show used that logo with the more prominent piece on the top of the G, but... And that's so... That's such an iconic thing that, uh, that's also part of, you know, Carly Beth's design in the first place. And when it's not mirrored, like, in my head, it was gonna be like, okay, you got the little ear shape, and then you got the G right above it, but... It's fine. It's okay. It's still... I mean, you know, all things considered... I did like the inclusion of the little Gs, though, that are in her ears. I thought that was... That was great. Thank you.

[01:29:16] When I came up with that idea, I was like, this is the greatest thing I'm ever gonna do in my life. Like, this is... I'm never gonna get any cleverer than this with anything I ever draw. Um... So, yeah, I can... I can draw that ear, like, no problem. Now. I'm not just drawing it 500 times. Definitely. So, actually, before the show, you had sent a few pieces of concept art from the dev process,

[01:29:46] and I want to just bring those up really quick. Yes! Yes! So, this sheet right here was part of my test page process, or part of, I guess, my audition, or my pitch to be chosen as the artist for Goosebumps. So, what I did was I drew out all of the characters at that time, how I had envisioned them. And I went a little... I was a little, like, kind of teacher's pet about it.

[01:30:14] I drew, like, the headshots and all of them, like, screaming, like, in horror. Um, so, let me see. What changed here? I think the bangs on Carly Beth changed a little. I had her bangs mirror her mom's bangs. The shopkeeper is pretty silly looking. I don't know what the deal is there. Noah stayed the same, and obviously, like, the mask went through a few changes. I really like the way it looks, though. Now that I'm seeing...

[01:30:44] I haven't seen this stuff in... Like, I sent it to you earlier, but I haven't actually looked at it in quite a while. And then here we have... Yeah, the ears. And then this... Yeah, this next slide is part of my actual test page process. They gave... What they did was they gave us... Scholastic gave us a excerpt from the book and then said, adapt this. You know, like, just do it how you would do it if you were hired. So I went all out. This is a...

[01:31:14] I did all the lettering myself. I did all the, you know, the tones in black and white because they didn't ask for colors. So yeah, I think this is... I kind of got it in one shot, really, because I think this is the same layout that I use in the book. Just about this. I think so. Yeah, with some design changes. So that... That's really funny. Yay! Yeah, this is... Oh, look at that. I want to say, like, a third through the book.

[01:31:40] I was like, I cannot keep this thing consistent to save my life. So what I did was this top drawing... This top render, I should say, is... I sculpted it myself on my iPad in a program called Nomad. Oh, wow. And so I had my own personal little, you know, sculpture of this design that I could rotate at my own leisure to reference. Because sometimes I...

[01:32:08] I'll use a lot of different things as reference for various things. Like, a lot of the 3D knowledge that I have is fairly rudimentary. But I... In certain aspects, I can really make stuff that is very, very useful. So for that, I had the model of Carly Beth's head when she's... This is, I think, the second form. The more evil, more, like, kind of crazy-looking form. I did a lot of 3D mock-ups for settings in the book. I want to say the shop...

[01:32:39] What was it? It's in the back, I think, actually. Yeah, the Halloween shop is a 3D model that I draw over. But I also had a sculpted version of the mask that I made out of Sculpey that I would use to kind of get the general idea that... Yeah, I really, really... Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's the first version. Oh, wow. That's the phase one, I called it, of the mask. That's a little less scary. And then this one, that's a little scary.

[01:33:05] And I have also this little dolly that I would use for clothing reference for Carly Beth. She's a little scary and sad-looking, but... Oh, wow. So every time I would need to know what do overalls look like from an angle, or what would her shoes look like, or what would her body or her hair be positioned like, or what would the light look like falling on her or something? I would just use this and take pictures of it, or just hold it up and draw it. So I had a ton of different... That's amazing. Thank you.

[01:33:35] I definitely recommend... I don't know if it's super... It used to be when I was coming up as a... Her shoe fell off. Oh, no! When I was coming up as an artist, I feel like a lot of people thought that referencing was cheating. Or like it was... You're not smart enough to draw it out of your... Off of your... Of your mind. Sorry, her head fell off. Oops! Oh, my God! Well, there she goes! Oh, my gosh. Yeah. Just like in the comic. No, Ruffin... He's having a problem.

[01:34:06] No, I myself... We've had Tim and Craig White, I think, said it too. And I want to say Mark Nagata said it too. I think all of them said it. They all had... So, for sure, like, some of them had... Like, Tim modeled himself. Like, he had a picture taken of himself. Like, for instance, the Horror Camp Jelly Jam cover. That's Buddy, you know, the big smile. You know, and everything. That's him. Like, we have the photo of him. It was hilarious. It looks funny.

[01:34:34] We share it with him and all that stuff. And... But the... I think it was Craig. I think he said he was actually given, like, a budget to hire an actor or something. Like, I can't remember who it was. It might have been Mark. One of them had a budget to actually hire someone to use as physical reference for certain things. Wow. Whereas Tim, I think, was using, like... For instance, it was his niece who modeled the Haunted Mass cover. And things like that.

[01:35:04] So, I mean, they actually had references. I mean, there is nothing wrong with that whatsoever. Of course, that's the original cover. I cannot imagine what that... That's Tim DeCobis. Oh, God! Yeah, I think... Who's it? Any... Anything you can use. If you can use, you know, your friends or yourself or a sculpture or, you know, a toy. Anything like that.

[01:35:30] I think there's a few scenes where I took pictures of myself, like, kind of pulling at my own face to get sort of, like, what, you know, pulling in a mask would look like. I also have, I think, a Freddy Krueger mask somewhere in my house that I used for a lot of reference. Nothing as funny as that. I don't think. Nothing as funny as that picture, for sure. I, myself, have been getting more into art and references have been my best friend.

[01:35:56] So, like, anybody who wants to tell you, like, you know, references are, you know, the work of not a true artist, they don't know what they're talking about. Yeah. Just total goofball. I was going to say, like... I was growing up, when I was growing up, like, I wanted to be an artist. I still draw till today. And I almost went to art school. Like, I was told I should. And I got an offer to go to Heron here in Indiana. But I was like... And I was like, at the time, like, that's when digital art was really coming into play. But I was more of a, like, classic cartoon artist.

[01:36:25] And so, the art form itself seemed to be dying at the time. Yeah. So, there wasn't a lot of work in that aspect. And kind of spoke to me at the time, too. That's the case, because that's why Mark Nagata ended up not doing the rest of the Give Yourself Goosebumps. And they hired Craig White is because he did digital. Whereas, Mark didn't want to conform to digital. Probably he's ever done digital. And if I remember... I don't know if he has or not.

[01:36:54] But, yeah. I mean, it's tough in the art world, at least during that time. Especially when something new comes along. So, like, when AI comes along, you know, we've asked him about it and stuff. But, I mean, like, have you thought about using that as a tool going forward? Or is that something you're still, like, trying to hold off on? AI? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, there's a distinction with AI stuff that can get kind of muddied, especially in the digital art space.

[01:37:23] There are certain algorithms, for example, that will make a noise pattern that you can use for a texture. Certain algorithms that help you, like, sculpt digitally. Things like that. But when it comes to, like, generative AI as we know it right now, I don't... To put it, I guess, politely, I don't care for it. And I don't see anything in my own workflow that would necessitate it or be improved by it. I've heard all about it.

[01:37:53] I've seen people talk about it. It's not something for me. Um, and I kind of have a distaste for how it gets its ability to invent, I guess, that... Not even, like, it's not inventing anything, really. It's sort of, like... Yeah. Like, generating. Yeah. The way that it generates things, I think, to me, personally, is unsavory. It's uncanny. I agree. Yeah. I try to avoid it.

[01:38:20] I mean, like, like I said, like, there's so many different forms of AI and, like, algorithms, you know. Well, and God forbid people use, like, generate an entire AI image and then try to pass themselves on an artist. Like, they'll just make something. That's my art. That's not art. Yeah. It's not art at all. It... It is not my favorite thing in the world, I guess, again, to put it politely. I don't blame you.

[01:38:48] Because to me, part of drawing and part of making something is the process and is, you know, learning how to become better at something that you make with your own hands and with the tools that you have available to you. Exactly. And I guess maybe, you know, some people will say, like, well, you know, the things that you're doing, like you just said, have all these algorithms and why is it different?

[01:39:17] And I guess that's just... That's really just the fundamental difference to me is that I am not trying to, like, regurgitate, I guess, like, visually stuff in another person's style. I'm trying to use my own tools to make my own style of work out of my own mind. And people say, well, artists, you know, take from stuff and they reimagine from stuff all the same.

[01:39:45] And to that, I say, you know, if your computer gets a virus, are you going to take it to a hospital for humans? I don't think so. Like, it's not... Yeah, exactly. It's not... It's a big difference. It's not a one-to-one comparison. And it's a hard conversation, I think. I think that... I don't know. Just for me, I'm cool with saying if all of my... If Photoshop... Not that I use Photoshop, but if, like, Clip Studio Paint or if my Nomad Sculpture, anything,

[01:40:12] like, never updated again, I would be fine at this level making the art that I do. Yeah. And I... As a person who I, you know, I get sick pretty often. I have a lot of times where I physically am unable to work. I am definitely grateful to tech for a lot of the ways that it makes me more efficient. And to go back to your point about artists kind of leaving behind traditional or analog

[01:40:39] art in order to, you know, kind of, like, move forward with digital stuff, I do think that efficiency is kind of the main reason. Yeah. You know, like, all of these books, you know, book publishers, they want things really, really quickly and they want a lot of it and they want it high quality. And that's sort of, I guess, not...

[01:41:05] Analog and traditional art is not conducive to quickness and to efficiency and to hyper, like, sell, sell, sell right now, right now, right now. Yeah. I still work analog when I can. I love inking, like, analog traditionally with pens and nibs and markers and, you know, all sorts of stuff like that. But when it comes to selling books and making books, especially on timelines like mine, a

[01:41:34] book a year, it would not be beneficial, I guess, to the companies that I work for, for me to take time like that. And that's sort of an unfortunate reality of the industry. So I... And as a person who really likes art in every form, you know, I feel bad that more people

[01:42:00] can't do things like draw analog, draw traditionally, make paintings and make, you know, these things that take longer time just because of how quickly the world moves and how quickly these publishers and, you know, even big studios like that are making cartoons and movies, how quickly and how much output they want all the time. It's a bummer. It's a bummer. But I... It really is. I still try to hold on to what I can do and what I can control. So that's... Yeah.

[01:42:31] That's about all my thoughts. I'm not a big fan of generative AI. I'll say that for sure. Honestly, I think every artist isn't a fan of generative AI. That's like a big thing. It just gets rid of all the salt that comes with art. Oh, definitely. I mean, I see it all the time on like Twitter, just people are like trying to pass off generative AI as art. And it's just like, number one, you didn't put any work into that. You typed in a prompt and you got... Yeah.

[01:43:00] So that's not... There's no love. There's no passion in the way. And even then, like AI is still developing, so to say. Right. Like, even if they try to make it look as realistic as possible, you're still going to get someone with a weird looking face in the background. Yeah. It's... It's like scary. It is scary. Yeah, but I think every single time I personally have seen a work or heard, you know, read a

[01:43:28] post on the internet or something that I even like halfway thought was interesting. Like the second I find out that it was not necessarily crafted by a person, I do get pretty turned off by it, you know? Yeah. I instantly don't like it. Or how... Yeah. And it's not that I don't see the appeal. I mean, like typing in something and then something popping out for you, like a, you know, like a vending machine, I think I can understand why that would be exciting. Especially if it's customized to your specifications.

[01:43:58] It's cool. It's a cool novelty. That's not what art is about. Yeah. Yeah. It's a cool novelty. But it's not something that should be used professionally, especially by people who have the ability to make great things on their own. So that's the crazy part is I know some people have think they've told me that they've basically lost out on jobs. I mean, they use digital and things like that. Don't get me wrong.

[01:44:23] That's a tool that artists have been using again since the 90s, early 2000s, since its arrival. But, you know, and Tim Jacoba said it too. He's like, eventually somebody or everybody will have to probably conform to use AI as a tool in their art due to the fact that this is, again, the moving flow of, you know, the business. He's like, because not a lot of people wanted to go with digital either at the time, but,

[01:44:51] you know, it's one of those things you adapt and you go with it. And because this is what companies want. They want that speedy stuff. They want it out. They want it. They want it out, out, out. And again, like back in the day, Tim was saying like he would paint, he'd have to ship it. They would look at it. If they want changes, they ship it back. And he's like, it was just, it's a massive process to, whereas like, you know, with digital or anything now that you just send it right over, they have it changed this. They don't have to send anything back. There's nothing mailed.

[01:45:21] I mean, but it's still now they still want to even faster. Yeah. So it makes it very difficult. And I know some of my artist friends feel like, you know, they try to start this whole like movement to like ban AI from the art scene as far as getting jobs are concerned. Companies aren't having it though. That's the crazy part. They're just kind of like, well. It's really true. And that's the crappy part. But, you know, it's one of those things.

[01:45:48] And that's why I was wondering, you know, if it's been kind of brought in your world yet, um, you know, like, Hey, we can touch on this, but you know, maybe AI would be a tool down the road that you would have to consider. But it's really hard to say where AI is going at this point and whether or not it's going to actually be beneficial to mix with actual artists.

[01:46:13] Like say, if you can do a rendering with digital, but then have AI do something with it. I don't know. It's going to be really tough to see where this goes, but yeah, it's always interesting to hear different artists' opinions about AI and how it's affecting their community. Like professional artists, like it's very interesting to me because I don't have to worry about it in my line of work.

[01:46:37] But if I was like a professional artist, I'd be a little more concerned just because of what I've heard. But at the same time, it's kind of like, it doesn't seem like it's going to affect anybody right away, but it's always in the back of their mind, I think. Yeah. It's not even only visual art that is getting affected by it. I can't, to my memory right now, think of a friend of mine who's been replaced or partially

[01:47:02] replaced by a generative AI, but a buddy of mine is a voiceover artist and he lost out on a gig as an audiobook narrator because, and it's a funny, it's kind of a funny situation, but they thought his voice was AI so they didn't pick him up. What? Wow. He has like this, they have like this really deep voice and whoever was in contact with it was like, he's like, you're, you know, you can't trick us. Like you're, you're doing AI.

[01:47:30] People, people are, and they're just like, that's just like, that's just like that. Imagine if somebody said that to James Earl Jones or something, you know. Yeah, like seriously. That is an insult. Isn't that bizarre? Wow. I do, like, like I said, I am a huge, huge fan of art in, in all forms from professional to hobbyist to outsider. Like, I, I think that if there's one thing that people are really good at doing, it's being, uh, obsessive little weirdos about stuff they enjoy.

[01:47:57] And so I always just, I keep the hope in my mind that there's always going to be people who are drawing and who are making and who are crafting with their hands and with their minds and, uh, you know, their hearts and souls. So that's, that's something that I just hold on to because, uh, like you said, like it's advancing so quickly and we don't know what it's going to look like in a week and a year in 10 years. Uh, I will say though at this point, I have no interest in using it as part of my workflow. Yep. Yeah, that's fair.

[01:48:26] Uh, to this last panel here. Oh, my baby. Aw. My little bitty girls. I remember them saying that. Sabrina looked too old and I was like, what do you mean? What? So I had to kind of squish her up a little bit. I'd make it a little more chibi, but, um, yeah, there's, there's another few variations of the mask. I think it's a little chunkier. Oh, the G. Yeah. What? It's a little angular. You can definitely see where I was doing some, some Jamie Hewlett studies. Oh my God. Yeah. I do see that.

[01:48:57] Yeah. It's super evident in these ones. Now that I'm looking at them, I think, no. So yeah, when it comes, uh, talking about, you know, analog and digital, like in tandem, those, the sketches in the blue in the back are in my sketchbook. And then I brought them into my computer. Wow. I brought them into my computer and I inked them digitally with, uh, Clip Studio Paint.

[01:49:20] So those, those, uh, black and white drawings are, uh, digital and then the, um, you know, the ones in the back are sketches and pencil. Right. So I, sometimes when I really just need to get like ideas out really quickly or get a, get a handle on how to draw something, like just figuring out how my hand is going to, you know, move and like how I'm going to draw this as efficiently as possible. I'll start out on paper and I'll, I'll sketch out a bunch of stuff.

[01:49:46] There's, I wish I knew where it was, but I have, I have a ton of, of, uh, of just like iterating over and over and over again on like, what is Carly Beth going to look like? How am I going to draw her from such and such angle? And a lot of that was, yeah, my sketchbook. Yeah. Sometimes it's good to, oh yeah, no, it's, it's always good to step away from a screen and feel how you're going to, yeah, that too. Cause after a while you just get tunnel vision working on a tablet for a while.

[01:50:16] Yeah. And, and I think also a thing that, uh, I feel, and I don't, I don't know if other people might feel this way too, um, about digital art is that you have every conceivable color, every tool, every possibility when you're working digitally. And it's, you know, for me, it's like overwhelming. I'm like, oh, I just need to get ideas out, you know? So I pull up. I know. Yeah. It's a sketchbook and just whack, whack, whack, whack, whack, whack, whack. I'm still finding things out nowadays. Like there's just things I'm like, oh, there's that thing. Cool.

[01:50:45] I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm comfortable where I am. Yeah. There's so much that you can learn and programs and brushes and there's a lot. There's so much. Yeah. Shortcuts and everything. Oh my gosh. Oh yeah. Jeez. I know. Oh yeah. But yeah, I think if I had my, like, if I had my perfect, perfect world, I could, you know, spend like, you know, however many days, like comic artists used to spend on a single

[01:51:13] page and, you know, work on a big drafting table with like all my tools and my whiteout. Oh yeah. But yeah, it's just not, um, economically feasible. I'll say, uh, for the most part, there's some people who do it, but I, I think when it comes to these kinds of schedules for like intellectual property, uh, license stuff, like it's, it's very, very breakneck. Yeah. You have to be quick with that now. Oh yeah. Yep. Yeah. Everything's quick.

[01:51:40] You, you, you know, no excuse now in terms of the way company sees it, that you got to be quick on things. Exactly. They're very harsh about it. Oh, you know, actually I did want to ask, what was your favorite panel working on, um, the graphic novel? Favorite panel. That's crazy. Let me, uh, oh geez. Um, worm sandwich. I know there's a lot. Let me think.

[01:52:06] Uh, it's hard to kind of, um, get really, really granular about stuff like that. But if I, I guess I could cheat a lot of the spreads, I think, um, a spread, like a two page, two pager, like, like spread the book. It's all spread. But, uh, I'm assuming that there's somebody in the audience who's never heard of a comic book before. So I'm being very particular about it. Yeah. When they, when they, when they, when they, when they talk to the box, you see that transformation

[01:52:35] and sort of like, uh, it just, something about just the way the head looks. Like, help me, help me. Well, I think the, uh, a design choice that I made, another one that deviates, uh, from the book is that the, in the book, the whole head was plaster. But in the, in this, I, uh, gave, I think I still said that the, the mama Caldwell made

[01:53:01] the head of a plaster, but it's also got, um, synthetic, uh, nylon as hair. And part of that was because I am a, uh, a big fan of like fashion dolls, like toys and things like that, as you can probably tell. Uh, and that's a big thing is like, you know, synthetic plastic hair. Uh, but also it's because it can make, uh, dynamic compositions like that. Like if you have the hair, like whipping, you know, in the wind, it takes up space and

[01:53:30] that's dynamic and that, you know, helps sell a lot of emotion. I think that hair, uh, is a big part of the way that I, I draw emoting. Yeah. Like this one here where she's showing it off to Chuck and Steve, like just how the hair is in the wind. Yeah. See, cause it takes up all that space and then you, you could draw a background or you could draw a bunch of hair. Exactly. And how the eyes are like real glass eyes and then you see like how general we are. Oh, yeah.

[01:53:57] And that's, you know, all of that is informed by my, you know, by my fascination for, for dolls and stuff. But yeah, this is a, this one's a big one. The, the run panel. Yeah. That was so fun to draw. And then, uh, back to spreads, this, this one, a symbol of love. I think. Oh, yeah. Yeah. This panel here where she's holding it above her head and all of the masks are, are, uh, like closing in on her. That is exactly how I pictured it when I read it as a kid. Mm-hmm.

[01:54:27] Um. Oh, wow. So like, even before, like the, the day I got the email that it was like, Hey, we want you to test her haunted mask. I was like, Oh, I got to think back on that, you know, that scene when I was a kid and how. So when she's looking at her, her, it's, there's not even like really like a super big emotion though. You can tell she's just like almost a little like pondering. Yeah. She's just pondering it. And then she's like, got just a single, I don't know if that's a tear or just a little

[01:54:55] sweat, but it's just like admiring her own face in the mirror. Yeah. Whatever your interpretation is. And then it's followed up by this one. Whap. Oh, yeah. The whap. I remember getting an edit like that, that I had to add Noah's hair because they were like, well, what if somebody doesn't know who that is? I'm like, really? Oh my gosh. Yeah. I need to make it very specific. Um, I guess. Oh, Jesus. This is hard. I like a lot of the drugs in this.

[01:55:25] Uh, okay. Uh, in a, in a comic book, in a comic book nerd kind of way, I think I really like this panel, this shut up one. Oh, yeah. It, to me, is a reference of the end of the Batman comic called The Killing Joke, where it is, there's a scene. One of my favorites. Batman and the Joker. There's a panel where like, uh, you know, like comic book fans and historians are always

[01:55:53] arguing like, are they, is he choking him? Or are they, you know, do they have their hands on their shoulders? Something like that. And so I wanted to kind of play off of that. Um, that sequence and that panels. Cause I, I really do like, uh, the, the Killing Joke. It's one of my favorite graphic novels. Um, yeah. Oh, it's great. Yeah. The classic Batman story too. So. Oh yeah. Yeah. All the Batman stuff. I wish the animated film was as good as the graphic novel, but you know, well, that's

[01:56:23] a, that's an episode. I guess you can't remember. Yeah. So we've already talked about it, uh, already, but we can expect, uh, Monster Blood to be the next one. And that will be coming out later this year. Uh, can you tell us a little bit about, uh, what we can expect from that one? Yeah. Yeah. Um, so that's coming out in September around the same time as, uh, Hanum Ass came out last year.

[01:56:49] Uh, it is, there's a little bit more deviation from the source material, but not in a super big way. I think that there was, um, there's a lot of repetitive scenes in Monster Blood where Evan and Andy are kind of going back and forth from point A to point B. So there's a lot of, uh, storytelling in which, like, I'm sort of consolidating a bunch of scenes together.

[01:57:12] Uh, if, if, uh, Trigger sometimes looks like a cat and if Sarah Beth kind of looks like a dog sometimes, uh, I'm just going to apologize for that in advance because I had a very short amount of time to learn how to draw both animals convincingly. Um, but I, I think that it's got a lot of really cool and fun sequences. I'm really excited for, uh, people to read that one. I love Evan and Andy.

[01:57:40] I think they are so ridiculous and so silly and so fun. And, um, I don't know, I don't know how much I can, I can get into it, but that was a really fun challenge and I think a really fun book. Absolutely. And, uh, I guess I'll plug on your behalf. If anyone in our audience wants to see some sneak previews of the upcoming graphic novel, they are on Maddie's Instagram, which, uh, as always, I will leave in the description below.

[01:58:08] Um, but you also said that you're signed on for a third book and hopefully more going forward. Um, and I guess I got to ask the, probably the most biggest question of all, if you had the choice, you know, like, you know, scholastic aside, if you had the choice to pick a book that you wanted to adapt, original 62 or otherwise, uh, what would you have interest in doing? Oh, geez. Um, okay. So, uh, to get this out of the way now, don't ask me what the third book is. I don't know. I don't know yet. We haven't decided.

[01:58:39] Um, this is hard. Okay. So my favorite book growing up is a kind of a weird one, but it was the headless ghost, which I visited it very recently. And it's a lot of like, kind of a larger framing story with the characters inside telling a lot more like smaller scary stories, um, that creeped me the heck out when I was a kid and still kind of do, uh, I really want to do stay out of the basement. I really like stay out of the basement.

[01:59:07] Um, I'm looking at my pile that I brought earlier. Like, Oh, what do I want to do? Um, mass mutant would be funny because it's comics. Oh yeah. You know, it's funny. We did actually talk about that, how that one was never adapted despite the fact that it was based on a comic book. It really should be. Yeah. I think it would be really fun. Especially the ending. Like the ending. Uh, I feel like the comics medium, um, I mean, maybe, maybe if we pick this, so if

[01:59:37] we, if we do pick it, uh, and I'll end up like spoiling myself right now, but I do think that like last final ending, that kind of meta of the character being in a comic, um, or like having the, Ooh, like that would be so creepy in an actual comic book. Pie in the sky, crazy adaptation, I think would probably be one of the give yourself goosebumps books, which would be, I feel like impossible to adapt into a comic medium.

[02:00:05] It would be 10 billion pages long, like every single, cause you know, like a page of goosebumps can be a page of comics or it can be three pages of comics, like depending on how, like what happens, uh, in the prose. Uh, so something like a give yourself goosebumps, like, uh, uh, toy terror, which was one of my favorites or, uh, the wicked wax museum. I want to say is the title.

[02:00:30] Uh, those, those have such cool imagery and such scary ideas that I think would be so fun to draw, but also it would, uh, it would take forever. Um, and it would be really hard to draw, uh, which is also another reason that I think I, I feel like I have to disappoint slappy fans. I, I do think that it would, uh, we're probably not going to do a slappy book. I'm, I'm not, you know, I'm not speaking permanently because that, that could be what happens next,

[02:00:58] but I don't think we do a slappy book because the way that the books are set up in order to even get to slappy, you have to, you know, you have to do a whole book first. So that would be at least, at least two straight years of my life for all I'm doing is drawing. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. Yeah. No, that sounds like a nightmare. Well, you know what? Again, you know, we got tons of slappy representation. I think it's time to give some of the other. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. I don't know. Chicken, chicken needs love. They got one.

[02:01:28] I'm saying chicken, chicken is coming. Chicken, chicken is coming. Honestly, one I would love to see. I don't know if you ever read it, but I live in your basement, the 61st Goosebumps book. That would be a great one to adapt into a comic because that's also very, it's a very nightmarish sort of story. I don't, I don't know if they could get away with that one. Oh really? There's a few. Yeah. There's a few that are unadaptable.

[02:01:54] I feel like, um, tell me, I feel like that's one of them. I feel like, and this might be what I'm thinking of, but like there are some, yeah, there are some Goosebumps books where the whole time it hinges on the fact that it's pros and that you're not seeing the characters. Even, uh, as I said, you know, Werewolf in Ciber Swamp that was adapted into this book. Like this one, it actually even has blood in it. Like there's like a whole scene where the werewolf chomps on Grady's shoulder and he's, he's gripping and is bleeding.

[02:02:24] And it's like, wow, I can't believe it's got away with that. Is it shown in the, in the comic? Cause those are black and white, right? Yeah. It's black and white. So maybe that's one reason they got away with it, but. Yeah, you can. You get away with blood if it's not red. He chomps it if it's not red. And then trying to find a way to make it work in the camera. Which is the book I'm thinking of where the whole time, I think it's My Best Friend is Invisible, right? Where the whole time it's like, they're not people the whole time. Yeah, no. Sorry to spoiler alert. Spoiler alert, yeah. If any eight-year-olds are in there.

[02:02:53] No, the ending of My Best Friend is Invisible, they're all aliens. And the invisible kid is the only human. And it's never like touched upon from what I remember when I was a kid. It's never touched upon in the text. So like, it's a huge like twist at the very end. That would be impossible. Do it. Yeah, that's. Amp Nightmare would be a good one. Amp Nightmare. Egg Monsters from Mars, I feel, would be neat. Like, or, you know, Ancient to Die. Yeah, there's so many cool.

[02:03:22] Nine Terror Tower. As I say, if this becomes a long-running series, you'll be stuck with this for a while. Yeah, I do think at a certain point, they're probably going to bring on more artists like they did with the Babysitter's Club books. Because I, I could dedicate the next 60 years of my life to this project. But I don't know if that's possible. But, you know, we'll see how that, how that, you know, turns out.

[02:03:51] I'm excited to find out what the, the newer book is going to be. Definitely. And I mean, I got to reiterate once again, it took nine years since the last Goosebumps graphic novel to get a new one. And now that we're on the prospect of one every year, I'm just so excited. I love the Goosebumps graphic novels and comics. It's just so cool how they can both do the adaptations and then the, the sense of IDW

[02:04:18] recontextualizations of the original books into a new story. So I'm so glad to just see these come back alongside the, you know, the regular books by Stein. I'm very excited to see what's next. I'm sure a lot of other people are. Definitely a lot of people are. Um, oh yeah. So absolutely. I'm very excited to see what monster blood has in store and then, you know, whatever comes next from the series. So mysterious book three. Yep. Mysterious book three. It's going to happen. Yeah.

[02:04:47] It's going to happen. Well, we are going to call it a night here on the Goosebumps crew podcast. I want to give special thanks to our two special guests. Of course, Megan Gonzalez for joining us and talking some goosebumps, uh, and Beanie for joining us too, and, uh, asking some questions of our own. Thank you both for joining us. Yeah. Thank you for having me. Absolutely. It was really fun. Happy to have both you back on. You ever want to talk about Goosebumps again? We're our virtual doors open as I say. Yeah. See you next year. Yes, please.

[02:05:17] See you next year. Yeah. Hey, no, we will bring you back on when monster blood comes out. You can, you can bring that right. You can do that right here. Yeah, definitely. Absolutely. But, uh, I'm gonna, as always, I'm going to make sure I leave links to, uh, Maddie and Beanie's, uh, social medias in the description below. So check them both out if you can. Uh, definitely Maddie, because if you want to see previews of that, uh, that monster blood graphic novel, you can find them over on our social media. So go check them out over there, but you can, uh, follow them both. Please do.

[02:05:46] They deserve to support 100%. And as always, make sure you follow, of course, Bjorn and Nick at Goosebumps, Saucyfan, and Sean, respectively. If you like today's episode, make sure you have a like and comment, follow us on our audio platforms and social medias. All those links are in the description below. We will have another episode out for you next week, but until then, this has been the Goosebumps Group podcast. And from all of us here, I want to wish you all as always to take care, stay safe, and have a very scary day.