Revising From The Dead (ft. Susan Lurie)

[00:00:01] The most thrilling, frighteningly series ever! From the pages of R.L. Stine's best-selling books, and the screens go on forever and ever! We now return to Goosebumps.

[00:01:05] Greetings Goosebumps fans, young and old, big and small, living dead and undead. Welcome back to the Goosebumps Crew Podcast. As always, I am your host, Isaiah Vargas, and I'm joined by my good buddies Bjorn Palenik and Nick Shaw. We are the Goosebumps Crew, and we are back to, what else? Talk some Goosebumps. If it's your first time joining us here on the podcast, I want to sincerely welcome you all. If you are or have ever been a fan of the popular Goosebumps series of books, or the monster franchise that they spawned, I have a feeling this podcast is going to be right up your alleys. I always say, me, Bjorn, and Nick,

[00:01:34] some of the biggest Goosebumps nerds on the whole planet, we could talk about Goosebumps for hours. That's exactly what we do here on this podcast. Every week we have a brand new episode talking about everything Goosebumps, whether it be the books, TV shows, movies, video games, merchandise, whatever it is, if it has Goosebumps in the name, we're going to talk about it so much that the word Goosebumps is going to sound foreign to you. That's how weird it's going to be hearing it so much. So with all that said, if you end up liking today's episode, make sure you have a like and comment if you're watching us on YouTube.

[00:02:02] Subscribe to our YouTube channel. Hit the bell notification to get updates when new episodes go up every Wednesday at noon central, 1 p.m. Eastern. If you are, however, just dying to get those episodes early, you can catch the audio only versions over on the audio platforms or available on platforms such as Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, iHeartRadio, wherever you get your podcasts. Those episodes go up Tuesdays at noon central, 1 p.m. Eastern. And of course, you can follow the Goosebumps crew on social media. We're on Instagram, Twitter, TikTok, and Facebook.

[00:02:31] You could also follow Bjorn and Nick at Goosebumps, Aussie Fan, and Shallon respectively on their social medias and their YouTubes. All those links are in the description below. Check them out. Join the Goosebumps crew today. Become a crew member. We thank you in advance for your support. Now, I'm very pleased to introduce our guest for this week. She is an author, publisher, and editor. And we're very excited to talk with her today. Mrs. Susan Lurie is joining us here on the show. How are you doing today, Susan? I'm great. I'm so happy to be here. Absolutely.

[00:03:01] We're very glad to have you. And as I said, Susan has had a long career as an author, a children's book author, a publisher, and an editor, specifically an editor, on, of course, Goosebumps. Editing for over 150 Goosebumps books. So since the very beginning, as we found out. So you've had a long history with this franchise in particular. So we're very excited to get talking about your involvement.

[00:03:27] But first off, I do want to ask a little bit just about your general career. You know, as I said, you've been in writing and publishing and all that for a very long time. How did you start your career? How did it get started? Well, actually, I didn't start in children's books. I started with a book packager. It was called a book packager. And a packager at that time was a company that created only the book itself. It didn't print the book.

[00:03:56] So it did all the creative work, the manuscript, the artwork, the cover design, but then sold it to a publisher. And I worked with that kind of company. And we did coffee table books. And they were adult coffee table books. Very fancy. Very high priced. And they were beautiful. Just the production values. Some of it was with museums. Some of it was a history of sports. Some of it was antiques. Some of it was wine. It was just lots of different topics.

[00:04:25] And it was terrific. But, you know, after a while, it was very intense books. So I decided that I wanted to make a real big change. And I wanted, like, a total change. So what I did was I went into kids' coloring books. So you couldn't go further away, right? So you have hundreds and hundreds of thousands of words to, you know, it's snowing outside. So with a picture of snow.

[00:04:53] So, and that was a nice rest, a nice break. But now I wanted to go back to words again. So I then left there. So a couple of jobs in between. But then I went to a packager, another book packager. And we did the Nancy Drew and the Hardy Boys books. And those were terrific. And we did a lot of those.

[00:05:21] With Simon & Schuster, one came out every month. And I did that for a couple of years. But after you do mostly mysteries for, like, two, three years, you get tired of that. So I decided I need to do something else. And I went freelance. And Parachute Press, the creators of Goosebumps, heard, knew about me from the Hardy Boys and Nancy Drew books.

[00:05:49] And they asked me if I wanted to come work with them. And I said, not really, because I had just left. And I wanted to do some freelance work. So we said, okay, let's try something part-time. Oh, okay. So I got there. And Bob was writing Goosebumps. And I got the first manuscript. And I said, yeah, I think I'll come here. Yeah. This was from the very first manuscript he had me.

[00:06:19] You know, I was totally hooked. Because Goosebumps was the kind of series that I would have wanted when I was a kid and reading. I wanted to know. Mostly I always wanted to know what's going to happen next. I never really, as a reader, as a kid, wanted details. I didn't care what they were wearing. I just want to know what's going to happen next. And this is what Goosebumps was for me. And I said, oh, my God, I can't believe this. It was perfect.

[00:06:47] So I stayed with Parachute for, you know, about 20 years doing Goosebumps and other things. I became their publisher. So I was in charge of all the books I did. We didn't just do Goosebumps. And then in 2010, I left again to go out on my own. But stayed with working with Bob on Goosebumps. So, yeah, we worked. Bob and I have worked on over 150 Goosebumps books together.

[00:07:16] And we can't believe we're still talking to each other. We still like each other. We say, look, we're still friends. Yeah. There are arguments. Oh, I can imagine. But, I mean, again, we always talk about here in the podcast just how crazy it is that Goosebumps has transcended over generations. And, you know, it started in 1992. And now it's 2025. And it's still very much a popular franchise.

[00:07:44] You know, you got, of course, people like us, you know, who really keep the fandom alive. But, you know, there's adults who grew up with those books and maybe are passing it on to their kids now or kids nowadays are just discovering it for the first time. I remember I didn't discover Goosebumps until I was in second grade. So, it was like 2008, 2009. So, long after the original books had come out and we're in like the new era, as I call it.

[00:08:15] But I just was hooked. It was, you're very right. The Goosebumps, as we always talk about, was written in such a way that it was like kids were guaranteed to get hooked one way or another. And that's just a testament to, you know, Stein's writing style and how he knew how to, like, talk to kids without talking down to them in a way.

[00:08:40] It was, it felt like the sort of thing you could read that was a little bit more intense but not too intense from what I've seen personally. That's right. That's right. We were all very careful about that. We wanted to be scary but not too scary. That's why the characters are always funny, right? And it breaks up the scares and that kind of tension.

[00:09:05] And we never did anything that brought in real life trauma like, you know, like fires or, you know, things that are really scary in real life. Because this was for kids to escape and to be entertained. So we never had weapons. We never had guns. We just wanted to keep it scary but light. A fun roller coaster ride of scares.

[00:09:34] And in the end, you also, you probably know, you always felt safe, right? You never felt really, really frightened. I don't like horror, okay? I hate horror. I don't like to be, I don't like suspense. I don't like to be scared. I don't like any of this. But I love Goosebumps because I know it's safe, right? Safe scares. Definitely.

[00:10:02] Well, as we always talk about, Goosebumps to us, we always felt that the formula to Goosebumps in particular is the blend between horror and humor. So like you balance the horror out with the funny aspects of it. Even sometimes just the goofy nature of the ghost or monster. Like, what's one like? Something about like, why I'm afraid of bees is kind of coming to mind.

[00:10:30] It's like, you know, it kind of has the scary nature of being turned into something that's not human. But it's also bees. Like, it's kind of like a funny little idea. That was no con intended there. All the things you could be. That's the kind of corny name. You know, Goosebumps embodied right there. So it was a formula. It really, really was. Because like, Stein did Fear Street.

[00:10:59] And that's like full on horror. That's for young adults. But Goosebumps was that perfect balance. It was just, it was like a formula. Whether it was intentional or not, it was a formula. Oh, it was intentional. And also his characters are very, you could identify with his characters, right? So either they're afraid, they need to be braver, they don't want to be a klutz, they want to be liked, they have a horrible sibling.

[00:11:30] Every kid can identify with one or more of those, right? So that's, I think that's an important thing too, that the readers can see a little bit of themselves in these characters. They each have something to overcome. But they're in a very happy mood. You know, they're very, they're very adventuresome and they're very positive. And they, and they take on the world themselves.

[00:11:59] Because as you see, the parents don't play a very big role in any of these books. So they're, in their own way, empowering, right? Mm-hmm. Cool, because that's exactly it. Because most Goosebumps stories, you know, the kids try to tell the parents what's going on and the parents don't believe them. So it's, so it's up to the kids to face the danger themselves.

[00:12:22] So it is very empowering in a sense because it shows that, you know, the kids that like sometimes, you know, it kind of toughens them up to the horrors of the real world. That's right, that's right. It shows that if you could take down evil ventriloquist dummies, you could take on, you know, the real horrors of the world. That's right. Exactly. Yeah. So it really was, it was. Yeah, the books are kind of deceptive. They look simple and they're not simple at all, really.

[00:12:52] Mm-hmm. Well, one we always turn to and we talk about always is the Haunted Mask. Mm-hmm. Not only being one of the most iconic, but it is a story that is very, very complex. And it follows a very complex character with a very internal struggle. Like, it's, it's always funny because we also talk about the TV adaptation a lot. Um, and we talk about it with like the actors and that sort of thing.

[00:13:20] And we explain like why it's so well written. And then they'll be like, I never thought about it like that, but you're right. Right. So it's like, it, it's that media literacy, uh, almost in a sense. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. And, um, I do want to ask. You guys probably know better about them, more about them now than I do. It's just like, you know, you're scaring me. Yeah.

[00:13:47] Well, you know, it's our job to be looking maybe a little too deep into these books. Yeah, it's okay. But, uh, I do want to ask really quick, uh, what are some books that you enjoyed, uh, growing up? Um, I read the Beverly Cleary books were like my favorite. Um, and I read, I read some series, Nancy Drew. I read the Nancy Drews. I read the Hardy Boys.

[00:14:11] Um, but I don't, you know, mostly, mostly I read classics to tell you the truth. We went, that's what we did in school. That's what, that's what I read, the classics. Um, but I started with, with Beverly Cleary, um, and I read every single thing that she wrote. I thought they were the best. They were fantastic. I remember reading, uh, many of those books. Like they would be the sort of thing, like, you know, how schools would do like assigned reading.

[00:14:41] Everyone had to read the same book more than once. We had a Beverly Cleary book. Uh, and then I, I remember, uh, we did at least one Ramona book. Like, I remember at least Ramona and Beezus. Uh, that was the one I remember the most reading of. Um, but no, and I, I'm always interested to see, cause everybody's grown up with different things. Um, everybody's related to different series. You know, we relate to Goosebumps, but I've met people who are like, you know, I really

[00:15:10] got into Harry Potter. Like Harry Potter is what resonated with me. Or, um, a lot of people my age were more into Diary of a Wimpy Kid at the time, uh, while I was back reading Goosebumps. Right, right, right. Goosebumps kids. We are Goosebumps kids. Definitely. I mean, Diary of a Wimpy Kid was kind of like a, I only just sort of caught it as, cause like, I mean, I think I was a little too old when it was just coming out. I think I just caught it, like maybe the first book. Yeah. And then I was immediately too old by the time the second book came out.

[00:15:40] So Goosebumps was, yeah, that was obviously. And even with Goosebumps, like I only just caught the tail end of it cause I was born in 95. So when I started reading it, it was like 2000. So my school library had all the series 2000 books and give yourself black spines like the, the later ones. So it was, um, very much, uh, Goosebumps for me, but I had older siblings and cousins and they all just, yeah, they were like, no, read this.

[00:16:09] You're not going to read Harry Potter, even though Harry Potter was very much like huge. Yeah. The running joke in the Goosebumps community is that everybody who is a Goosebumps fan is also a Harry Potter despiser. Oh really? Well, for the most part, cause, uh, there's been a whole thing that like Harry Potter is what, uh, overtook Goosebumps' popularity by the time it rolled around. Cause Goosebumps was the biggest thing for a while. That's right. It was a really big franchise.

[00:16:39] And as we were talking about before, you know, just the onslaught of merchandise and, uh, you know, they had theme park attractions at Disney and all that stuff. Like it was a big thing for a while. Uh, and then Harry Potter came and ate its lunch like tenfold. Certain boy wizards. Which was wild to see. Cause I remember like, I'm the oldest one in this group.

[00:17:04] So like growing up with the books when they first came out and seeing and living through the boom that was Goosebumps, but then how quickly it seemed to kind of like go away once, you know, obviously there was some legal stuff going on, but then Harry Potter really did just take over the market. Yeah. Um, so it was a wild change to see cause where you would see Goosebumps everywhere. It just started to like dwindle down and almost seemed like overnight. It was just gone.

[00:17:35] Like, yeah, it was really strange. Yeah. There were a few years where new books weren't coming out, but I don't think that there would have been the success of Harry Potter if there hadn't to certain extent been a Goosebumps series. You know, I think that a lot of the Goosebumps got kids to read and especially boys, right? Cause boys, they just, they tend to read more nonfiction than fiction and they just don't read as much.

[00:18:03] But parents and teachers were telling us and librarians that they loved Goosebumps because it got boys to read. The Harry Potter books, I think were a little bit higher in level than Goosebumps, right? So I think that those Goosebumps readers went on to Harry Potter, which is just fine. I don't know. Would they have gone to Harry Potter if they hadn't been to Goosebumps? I don't know. I don't know. It really is true.

[00:18:30] Cause for me, definitely, I was not an avid reader before I got into Goosebumps. Once I got into Goosebumps, I was reading books every, almost every day. Um, it was, it was so surreal. It's like something about those books. And I think, I think it's because Stein was tricky the way that he wrote books because every single chapter was a cliffhanger. So maybe you would, and I'm sure many people in our audience probably relates to this one

[00:18:58] night where you're like, okay, I'll read like maybe a chapter or two, but then you get to the end of a chapter and it's a cliffhanger and you need to know what happens next. And then all of a sudden you're reading like 10 chapters. That's right. Just one more. Just one more. Right. Yeah. So, and there's a lot of Goosebumps fans too, that, um, got into Goosebumps just from seeing the covers. They just looked at the cover and went, what is this? And I've said this already a hundred times over on this channel, but if it wasn't for

[00:19:25] not the living dummy, that book, the cover, I never would have picked it up and I never would have read it. So it was like, that's what got me into Goosebumps. And covers are brilliant. They're brilliant. We had Tim on a few times and he told us, what was the, what was the way he described it again, Isaiah? It was like, he has told us many times. It was, it was a one-two punch. But the way he told me once was, it was like, he and Stein were a team and basically he was the hook that got you to read Stein's work.

[00:19:55] So it's like, you get hooked on the cover and then that's what makes you want to read the book. So, and it really is. It's like, sometimes the cover is, the cover is the first thing you see on a book. And especially to a kid, you know, kids are curious, are a curious lot. And, uh, they see something that interests them. They're going to look into it more. Right. Right. Those covers were, they're beautiful. And they're just, I just think he's a genius.

[00:20:23] I think that his composition and his angles and his color work is amazing. And he has that, it's very hard to have that combination of scary and funny. So he captures, he totally captures the essence of Goosebumps. 100%. There's been many artists that have come through the series too, but you know, I don't think Goosebumps would have ever been the same if it didn't start with Tim. I agree. I agree. He really, he really set the tone. Yeah.

[00:20:53] I agree. So my next question is, uh, so you've worked with, uh, Bob for many, many years and I'm assuming, uh, with the company of Scholastic, uh, as well. Um, what has been the best part of just that partnership and, uh, you know, that sort of camaraderie? Um, Scholastic. So we create at Parachute Press, which is the name of the company that created Goosebumps and where I work, um, had, um, was, it was a wonderful place to work.

[00:21:24] Um, we had other fabulous editors working on other projects. Um, Jane Stein, um, it was her company's, Bob's wife, her company with her partner, Joan. Um, and they were terrific. They were, they are very creative people. So it was, um, just, just a lot of fun to work there. When I went there, they said, you know, we do books that kids want to pick up for themselves. Um, and that, that Goosebumps was the beginning of that.

[00:21:52] So, um, we don't do broccoli, they said. So, um, so it sounds good to me. Um, and then working then with Scholastic, you know, was wonderful. It was a great partnership. They're very creative at Scholastic. They know how to market books. They're very, um, on board editorially with everything. They, they did those, those beautiful covers.

[00:22:19] They hired Tim and he worked with them on those beautiful covers. So it was, it was, it's terrific. It was terrific then. And it's terrific now. Absolutely. And, uh, you know, we've, we've talked about, uh, you know, you've been with the series since the beginning and still now, um, of all the Goosebumps books that you have, uh, done editing work for, what would you say are like maybe some of your favorites or at least ones that stand out to you? Um, well, I love all the Dummy books.

[00:22:49] They're just hilarious. And of course the Haunted Mask, that's, that's iconic. Um, I, some of them are a little bit off, off the, off the radar. I think not other people's favorites, but mine. I love the Masked Mutant books. I think those are hilarious. Um, do you like those books? I just think the, the Masked Mutant book is a very fun one. And there are many people who would say that is one of their favorites.

[00:23:19] Oh, good. Yeah. Cause we know someone who really loves, we know someone who really loves that he had a mask actually made like a replica. And, uh, yeah, he's a big, he's a big fan. So we're really like stoked that like Funko finally made Funko Pops, but we were very surprised that one of the Funkos they made was the Masked Mutant. Wow. Of all the, of all the characters for the first wave they could have done, that was not one we expected.

[00:23:49] Right, right, right. That's weird. You know that they, they done the Goosebump Funko Pops? Oh. Yeah, they finally did them. We've been waiting for. Wow. 10 plus years for them to do the Goosebumps. Yeah, it's been a while. That's funny. Halloween of last year was, that was it. That was the time. So we finally did it. But yeah, Masked Mutant, uh, any others? Um, I like Terra Tower.

[00:24:16] I thought that was, that was fun, right? Yes. That's a good one. A great one. Um, all the, most of the mummy books are fun. I like the mummy books. Um, Monster Blood, Monster Blood. Those are iconic. I like those too. Um, we have a new one coming out in March, I think, called Say My Name, Say My Name. Have you seen the cover art for that? It's really cool. I love this book. You have to get this book. This book is fabulous.

[00:24:46] I'm not going to tell you anything about it because the minute I start to tell you about it gives too much away. But, yeah. But it's, it's fabulous. Yep. Oh, it, it seems from what we've heard from like early reviews, it's a really fun book. It's really fun. We're very excited to read it. And actually on the topic of that, uh, have there been any ones recently that you feel are, uh, are very, very good ones?

[00:25:13] Um, well, we just finished one called The Last Sleepover, which is pretty good. That's not out yet. Um, I love Say My Name. Um, the new mummy book is pretty good. I have that one right here. I like this book. Yeah. Um, I, I think all the, the, the known book is good. All the House of Shiver books, I think I really, they're really good. You know, it's amazing. What's amazing to me, I'm work.

[00:25:41] I've worked with Bob for 30 years and it seems cliche, but he keeps it fresh and he keeps coming up with new ideas and they don't feel like retread. There feels like a whole new experience. And I especially feel that way with the House of Shivers books. I think that plots feel new and fresh and surprising. Have you read any of them? Have you read that house? Yeah, we've, uh, we've read all the ones that have come out so far and they are very interesting stories.

[00:26:11] Like it's, it's always interesting to read these new books and really it's, it's crazy that, you know, Bob has done so many books and his time as an author and he still, I get people who are like, does he still make new ones? And I'm like, yeah, he's been writing these for all these years and he's still doing them. Uh, and I don't think he's lost really any of that charm. It's been consistent since the first one. Right. Right. It's incredible. Yeah.

[00:26:41] And in some ways I think his writing is even stronger, you know, it's even tighter and sometimes funnier. And it just, he's, he's, he's, he amazes me. He really does. I agree. And speaking of, uh, amazing. Actually, you mentioned before about you worked on a lot of coloring books and we obviously just got the first ever Goosebumps coloring book. Um, I don't know. Have you seen it? Like, Oh, I haven't seen it. Oh, here.

[00:27:11] You haven't seen it? Oh, I was there. If you put it on hand. The first ever Goosebumps coloring book. Oh, wow. So this came out just a few months ago, but yes, it is a Goosebumps coloring book and it features mostly, uh, Tim Jacobus's artwork on the inside. Wow. That's fabulous. Yeah. It's a very, it's a very nice book. It was very surprising when we first heard about it, but, uh, there's basically every single one in here.

[00:27:40] We got Terror Tower and Cuckoo Clock. Oh, wow. And, uh, all the, all the good news. Bring it out. Cause when you mentioned coloring book, I was like, Oh, I wonder if you pulled it up the Goosebumps coloring book. No, I didn't even know about it. That's fabulous. Um, speaking of RL Stein, uh, you know, we always like to just ask about what it's like just to be around him. We hear he's, he's a very funny individual, very, uh, sort of eccentric individual.

[00:28:09] What's it just, what's, what's he like? I don't think he's eccentric. He's very, he's very focused. Um, and he's very disciplined, you know, he gets up and he writes every day. Um, he does, I'm sure he's told you, he does a complete outline for every book so that he knows pretty much every chapter in the beginning, middle and end of every chapter, all the cliffhangers.

[00:28:37] So sometimes, you know, those outlines are so detailed that, and we work ahead of time. So many, you know, like a year ahead of time. So sometimes we say, did he write that book or didn't he write that? He doesn't even remember because the outlines are so detailed. It feels like you wrote it already, you know? Um, but he's, um, you know, he's terrific to work with. He's open to suggestions.

[00:29:02] Um, so that sometimes, you know, plots don't quite work. So we work them out together. Um, and he's great to work with in that way. Hmm. And so how did that work in the nineties with the books? Um, cause back then the books were released, uh, a lot, like he did a lot of books. It wasn't like, you know, a few a year. I mean, he, uh, at that point, I think it was like one every month.

[00:29:31] And I know talking with, um, a couple of people we've had on the podcast, I think it's typically, I think he writes a book six months ahead pops possibly of its release. So, I mean, at that time, I mean, how many books were you like, were you editing at the time? Cause I mean, they just had to be flowing in. They were flowing in. He was a machine. I mean, he did one, he wrote one, um, Fear Street and one Goosebumps every month. Right.

[00:30:00] So, well, the Fear Streets probably were more over two months than the Goosebumps was, as you said, we had him working on one a month. So his schedule was impossibly tight. And he was probably working seven days a week then. Um, it was, it was incredible. He was writing a Goosebumps. Now he takes longer. Um, but he was writing a Goosebumps in two weeks, which is amazing.

[00:30:28] You know, when I sit down, I do some writing too. And I say, well, this will take me six to eight months. And I know it, you know, it's horrible to work, to work with that because I know he'll do it. He could do it in two weeks. Right. Well, maybe now a month. Right. And this is going to take me a year, but that's part of his genius. He does. Yeah. How did he do it all between writing the books, appearances, appearing on the TV series,

[00:30:58] um, yeah. How did he do so, so much in that time? Well, that's another thing too, is that we, every time we talk to somebody who is like met with him on the set of the TV show, cause the TV show was very popular too. Um, when that was on and when he would come on to do an introduction for an episode, like I remember Catherine Long in particular, I'll never forget it. And she called him basically, he's like creepy Mr. Rogers.

[00:31:28] Cause he would just kind of like, he was dressed in all black. He would just kind of like hover around and like observe almost. I think there was even one time where he like gave some input to the director. Oh, I'm sure they loved that. Oh man. Everybody who's, who's been around him said he was just an absolute delight, but, uh, that's something I'll always just remember just that idea in my head.

[00:31:54] But, um, well, and he always talked about how he, you know, used to do it on a typewriter and then he moved to a personal computer and how he only specifically types with one finger. Right. You should see that. It's like so twisted and gnarled and he still does just one finger. It's so weird. It's, I can't, I can't imagine it. And not only that, I remember when we saw him in person, it was me and Nick, and this

[00:32:24] was like over a year ago now. Um, and he told us that usually what he does is every day he would write 200 words, no more, no less. Once he got to 200 words, even if he's in the middle of a sentence, he stops what he's doing and he goes about his day and then he picks it up the next day. Right. All part of the genius. Yeah. All part of the genius. Right. Right. One finger, 200 words, everything. That's right. It's just incredible.

[00:32:54] Right. Yep. So, um, has there ever been any content or at least, uh, there's something you can remember that did have to be, uh, cut or altered before it's released? Like, was there ever any like really big changes that had to be made? No, no. It's interesting that you asked that. Now his work was, is, was pretty much on target.

[00:33:19] We never, I don't think we ever had to really shelve anything or change anything that drastically. Um, you know, we had to tinker with plots sometimes, um, as you, that would, you would expect that, but nothing like that. No, he's pretty much on target. You know, he knows, he knows his audience. He knows his characters. He knows the series. He knows what he wants to do. Yeah. Mark, I'm a good author.

[00:33:50] One time was the girl that cried monster. There was a, he did an interview where he originally wanted to make, he wanted the monster to eat a kid, but they were like, can't do that. Oh, that. I remember like to eat a kid, but it would have been scary. Right. It would have been scary. But, uh, I don't know, eating, eating crickets and turtles is just as terrifying and, uh, probably more disgusting.

[00:34:20] So. I think it was more disgusting. Cause that's sort of like, sort of doable in a way. Right. Eating a kid is not so much. So I don't know. To me, that's more disgusting. Yeah. I was probably one of the ones who said, oh, you could eat the kid. Yeah. Just be like, just you let, you let Picasso paint. Like, you know, you just, you just let them do what they want. Um, no. And, uh, it's always a question is like, you know, is it ever a situation where an author

[00:34:50] does have to like really tinker with something or is it like just kind of minor things, but the overall outline is good. You just go with it. Yeah. Um, that's the mark of a good author. Well, that's the thing. Cause like, well, I know we've talked about it on this podcast before, but like a lot of his early stuff, like welcome to dead house and stay out of the basement had a much darker tone and not so comedic to it. Right. Um, until he kind of, I guess maybe later found his, um, found his way with it. Yes.

[00:35:19] They actually, it was welcome. That house was, was fairly dark. Um, and then a standard basement a little better, but yeah, as he was, he was, he was, he went on, he found more humor and also the, um, the cadence changed too. And the tone changed, the rhythm changed. The sentences, um, were sharper and shorter, I think. Um, and he really found the rhythm as he went on.

[00:35:48] I would say by book six, it goosebumps was what it became. Right. Um, yeah. But those first ones, um, he was feeling his way a little bit. Well, and actually a funny enough that got brought up because we always hear, you know, stories about like how goosebumps really did start out because from what we've heard and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. Um, goosebumps was originally signed to just be a six book series.

[00:36:18] Like it was just going to be six books. But by the time it got to that sixth book, it was gaining so much popularity that it was like, no, we got to keep, we got to keep it going. Like we struck something here. Right. Exactly. Exactly. Once they saw that, you know, kids were really loved it. We just, we just kept going. But that was pretty, I think that was pretty, um, traditional back then for a publisher to

[00:36:46] sign up for six books to start with. Right. Um, and if you, and you know, they normally didn't go beyond six, maybe eight, 10 at the most, um, except fear street of course took off. But, um, but yeah, as soon as, uh, you know, they started seeing the sales come in, they realized right away. Need to, there's a real market for this. Kids really like it.

[00:37:16] Yeah. That's crazy. Cause like I tell these guys all the time, how book seven was not a living dummy and we could have almost not got slappy. And that would have been. It's like, imagine the tights turned a little bit and they just, they did stop it there. And it's like, wow, there's a lot of things that would have never come into fruition through that. It's crazy. Right. Right. Right. Yeah.

[00:37:40] So lucky back then because now books aren't given as long a shelf life. They're not given a chance to find their audience. So we were pretty lucky that the kids found the books quickly and that we could, you know, continue with them. Yeah. Well, and for goosebumps too, cause you had the original series, the most iconic books and those ran for 62 books.

[00:38:07] And then there was many spinoffs and there were sequel series. Once you got to like horror land, then you had like a format change cause you had continuing storyline. Right. Throughout the whole. Change it up. Yeah. Went wanted to do something a little bit different to change it up. I liked those. Cause I think those came out pretty, pretty well. I liked that whole environment. It was a fun environment.

[00:38:32] Um, and a nice break, I think for Bob to be able to do that. It was very interesting concept because you're taking a pretty well-known geographical location, in this case, horror land and fleshing that out while also paying homage to, cause this was essentially the new goosebumps at the time. It took a break between, uh, 2000 and like 2008. So there was that break period.

[00:39:02] And then here comes this brand new goosebumps. Right. And it's a new series, but it also pays tribute to the characters from the old books. So you had villains and protagonists return while also interacting with each other. It was a very great idea for a series. Right. Right. Yeah. I liked working on those. It was a nice, it was a nice change. And, um, I also, one of the things I'm curious about now that we talked about the break in between,

[00:39:30] I know that they were trying to do goosebumps gold and was there, did you have any involvement with that? Was there more than just the ones we know about? Um, cause I know we had, um, the haunted mask lives, which is one I'm, I hate say it didn't get brought out, but I guess the story was later reused, uh, for, I think it was the scream. If I remember right. Supposedly. So any insight to. No, um, no, we did.

[00:40:00] We did a couple of manuscripts. Um, that one, I don't know if there was. To tell you the truth, I don't remember so far back, but there was another one and we did use part of that first one. As you said, yeah, goosebumps gold, um, didn't, we couldn't continue with that. There were some issues, um, between publishers, so we couldn't do that. So we did. I think Bob did use part of that story. As you said, I think there might've been one more.

[00:40:30] But I'm, I don't remember what it was. Um, so there was one holidays to dead house, happy holidays to dead house. And then slappy new year, which ended up becoming the title of a horror alien book. So there is speculation of like, maybe those titles were used, um, or those, those manuscripts were written and they were reused for later books. Um, you know, it's a possibility, but of course we can never really know for sure. Um, sort of that process.

[00:41:02] Yeah. I mean, I mean, yeah, I tell you the truth. It was such a long time ago. I don't remember. I don't remember what, what happened. I know that we started on the project and we had to abandon it. So you probably remember more than I do about it. Whatever, whatever information we could, it's very mysterious. So in that sort of thing, it was a very sad day when the series 2000 books ended. Cause I loved those.

[00:41:30] I actually wanted to bring up series 2000 because series 2000 was what came after book 62. Um, and those books were much darker and, uh, it's, it almost seemed like the series was growing up with the kids reading in it. So like maybe eight to 10 year olds were the ones reading the original books, but then it'd be like 12 by the time those books came out and they were a little more intense, a little more gruesome.

[00:41:59] Uh, still not, you know, too. Terrible. Right. Right. But it was taking. Yeah. Switch it up a little bit to, you know, to maybe bringing other readers, bringing some readers who are slightly older, but still not alienate the younger readers. So, um, so that was goosebumps 2000, a little edgier, a little scarier. Not so much, you know, not so much. Marginally.

[00:42:29] Yeah. Yeah. Now, uh, you know, you and Stein have been working pretty closely on these books. Have you ever given some of your own input into the writing process or has it been primarily him? Um, you know, if with, as any editor will do, if there's a lot issue, you talk about it and you talk it through and you exchange ideas.

[00:42:54] But, um, but it's, but the work is always the writer's work. So you just kind of try to help along and ask questions. And what, what if we did it this way? What if you did it that way? Um, but basically it's him. And, you know, with any writer, it has to be their idea. Otherwise they can't write it.

[00:43:16] You know, if you talk to, talk to other writers, you can't really give writers your ideas because they, it has to come from them. It has to, it has to be something that resonates with them to be able to write it. Um, so yeah, I think, you know, I'm, I'm helpful in plotting and showing where the problems are.

[00:43:40] Um, which is, which is my, I think my key job is to show him what's working and what's not working. Um, but then he takes it from there. I see. Um, now when we, uh, when we first started, uh, talking, you actually mentioned that there was a cover contest. Uh, I thought it was your cover contest. Oh, didn't you have a cover contest?

[00:44:08] No, no, no, no, not, not us in particular. Oh, I got it mixed up. I thought that you had this cover contest. I saw something online and it was like, guess the covers from this description and Tim Jacobus was doing it. Oh, you're, you're talking about, oh, that's our episode. Uh, the, the, the quiz show that we did. That's what I was talking about. Right, right. Oh, I, I was totally, wow.

[00:44:38] I can't believe you watched that. That's interesting. Oh, I can't believe I couldn't get not one. I didn't get one. I, I was surprised. Uh, I was surprised that because I thought it was going to be easier. It was our, it was our one friend, Micah, who was getting those answers. But yeah, poor, I felt bad for poor Tim because he just couldn't, I think he got one of them right, but he was having trouble. Everyone was. Um, no, that was a nightmare.

[00:45:07] It was a nightmare. Yeah. I almost didn't want to come on after I saw that cover contest. So, so when I, when I was texting Tim, he was like, uh, what is this going to be? And I told him what it was and he was like, all right. He's like, uh, you know, do we want to do it as a drinking game? I was like, probably not a good idea, Tim. Uh, I'm just going to throw it out there. I was like, since we're not doing your covers, we're doing the color pattern to the books. Yeah. I was like, I don't, they're so, some of them are so similar.

[00:45:37] I was like, I don't think that's a good idea. I'll probably get most wrong. And I'm glad that I advised against it. Tim might've had to go to the hospital and I would have been right there with him. That was impossible. That was impossible. These guys are crazy and I'm not coming. I can't believe it. Well, the next time we were going to have money text me is like, we're not doing a quiz game. Why are we? I'm like, no, no, Tim.

[00:46:07] I felt so bad. I was like, Oh man, I thought that was not going to, I didn't think it was going to be that hard. We could do an easy one for Tim. If we did a quiz game, we could just do guess this like cover up and he would have to know. He would probably win that one easily. There's no fooling him with this. That'd be the only game we could play with Tim where he'd be like, Oh yeah, I know this. I can do this. But no, I was, I was curious about that. I can't believe it.

[00:46:38] Yeah, it was yours. Oh man. That's, that's really funny. Well, you know what? He's, uh, so when we did our last, uh, episode with him, uh, it was actually just as an art, um, conversation. So we were picking our favorite covers, not just from the original 62 or series 2000 could be any artist, Mark Nagata. Um, you know, Craig white, but he chose, he chose Brandon Dorman for all 10 of his.

[00:47:04] So it was, uh, it was really interesting to see that. So, I mean, if we did one with Brandon Dorman's art of particular titles, maybe you'd have a tougher time. I don't know. I think he would still do that. But he wouldn't. We can't, we can't use Tim's art with him. That's not even, that's not fair. An artist knows their stuff. Um, now I do want to move on.

[00:47:28] So, you know, we've been talking about the editing side of, uh, Goosebumps for a bit, but you actually have done work writing for two Goosebumps books. And those books in particular are the monster survival guide. So this was a tie-in book to the Goosebumps movie. And then also R.L. Stine's biography, It Came From Ohio, had a reprint in 2015. And the new chapters that were added were written by you. Um, so I would like just to talk a little bit about that. Let's start with the, the monster survival guide. Okay.

[00:47:58] Now, as I said, this book came out in 2015 and it's basically what it is. It is a survival guide for the Goosebumps monsters from the movie. Um, so what was it like getting to write, uh, this book? Because you got to talk about all the different kinds of creatures in the Goosebumps universe. Right. That was, that was so much fun. They told me all the monsters that were going to be in the movies. So those are the ones that we had to highlight.

[00:48:24] So I had to go back and read like the, I guess it was 30 monsters or so in that book. So I had to go back and read the 30 Goosebumps to remember the monsters. Um, and then I had to figure out, you know, pretty much like a tone for the book. Um, so I thought, well, you know, cause it's Goosebumps, we should make it kind of arch and sarcastic.

[00:48:51] Um, well, writing about the monsters was easy because when, once you, when you read about them, Bob is so good at describing them. You can just pick that, pick that language right up. And when you, when you discuss the monsters and what they look like and beware and, but then I wanted to make it sort of, you know, this is a guidebook and it's, if you happens

[00:49:18] to come across these monsters, but really, if you're reading this book, it's too late, you're doomed. Right. And that, right. And that was, that was a tone I wanted. So, and I think we, we pretty much captured that. Um, it was, it was easy to write and fun to write because he's so detailed with monster descriptions, he's more detailed with monster descriptions than he actually is with his characters, with his kids.

[00:49:46] So, um, so it was a breeze really just, you just read it and just pick up the material and, and, you know, put a little twist on it, make it a little sarcastic and fun and arch and there you go. Yeah, it was great. There were a couple of monsters where we couldn't find them. Uh, we don't know where the movie people got these monsters from. So we, they said they were from the books, but we couldn't make an exact match.

[00:50:14] So we decided, well, maybe it were these aliens. So we did some of the aliens. It wasn't, I don't know if you caught that, but it didn't seem like it was a perfect match to the books. Yeah. So, um, you're talking about the aliens. So right here, this is the page for the body squeezers. So it's from invasion of the body squeezers. I will say there is one, um, right here. So this is for the, the movie calls them the bog monsters, but here it's called the mud

[00:50:44] monsters. And they're said to be from, you can't scare me, but there's also conflicting info. Cause I think the movie says it's from how to kill a monster. It's unknown for sure. Right. And it's not, that's not from how to kill a monster. I like how to kill a monster. I like that book a lot. And that's not, yeah, that's not from that. So that was the kind of thing where we had to sort of budget a little bit. Exactly. Yeah.

[00:51:12] But, uh, even so like people on the planet who noticed that, like I said, we are, we are very thorough in our knowledge. Oh yeah. But even then, like, uh, so right here, so like the snake lady, I don't, I don't even remember what this is supposed to be a reference to. Um, I think she came from one of the give yourself goosebumps because they also looked at those.

[00:51:40] And I think she might've been in one of those. Yeah. Same with the annihilator nine thousands and, uh, yes. Those are right. Right. Those are all from the give yourself, which I, you know, those Bob didn't write. Yeah. He, Oh, I love him. The troll. So, um, so I had to, I read most of them, but not all of them.

[00:52:08] And I did don't remember them as well as I remembered goosebumps. So, um, so I really had to study those. Yeah. But those, they took, they, the movie took monsters from all the books really. So they, they did take it from the give yourself. It was very interesting just like, because they didn't go to just the original, the most iconic books. Like they really did pick some, some deep cuts at only a real goosebumps fan would like really be able to pick up on. Right. Right.

[00:52:38] And maybe to a general audience member, they would just be like, I don't know where these guys come from. Right. Right. Right. No, when I was working on it too, I thought I said, well, where is this? Right. I should know this, but that's, that's what turned out. It was from a give yourself goosebumps. And, uh, you know, we were talking about the, the writing style a bit. So it is almost like a survival guide. So basically most of these monsters are, uh, it's this whole book is told essentially from

[00:53:08] like what Zach is writing, the main character of the movie. Right. Um, and, but there's also like, they tell you what book it came from. So like here, the pumpkin heads, it says they came from attack of the jack-o'-lanterns and who was the main character of the book. Like it goes into detail about the story, uh, and the monster itself. And then there's also like little factoids down here. Right. Where it comes from. That would be, um, a good, a good way to handle it.

[00:53:35] So if, uh, if, if the reader had only familiarity with the movie and they wanted to see more about the monster, they, I could give them a clue as to what book it appeared in. Right. But also the role it played in the movie. So it was, you know, um, so give them a little bit of both. Um, and then the, as you said, the characteristics and the fun stuff. Yeah. And how he was gonna, or she would destroy you.

[00:54:06] Right. Definitely. The humor is intact. Uh, I'm here on the haunted mask page and it says it was last seen in the Madison high bathroom, checking out its killer looks. Right. Right. So the humor is still there. And you also mentioned just like how it's like, you know, it's, you got this book. It's too late. The ending is just like, you know, you won't need any help. All you need is this book. And it's like, here's the thing you should know. Cause they don't like to lose. They'll be back for revenge. Trust me.

[00:54:35] They'll be back. They'll be back. Right. Right. So this was my personal favorite. Cause there was a ton of books that came out, uh, tied in with the movie, but this was always my favorite just cause it was fun to learn about the monsters where they came from. And I'm certain that it was the same for many young readers too. I'm happy to hear that. Yeah. That was, that was fun. It was exciting. It was on the shelves. Yes. Oh, the movie's coming. It's coming. Right.

[00:55:06] And then we have, uh, it came from Ohio. So this book came out back in the nineties, uh, and it was written by Joe McArthur. Joe Arthur. Joe Arthur. Okay. So, um, yeah, Joe Arthur, my mistake. He's the one who wrote the initial book, but then this reprint came out and this came out like 15 years after the original book. So they had to update it. So you helped write the new chapters that covered in the gap.

[00:55:34] Um, what was it like working on this one? That was pretty interesting because the main challenge was to make, to, I think I wrote three or four new chapters for the book and they came somewhere in the middle and also updated whatever material needed to be updated. But so it had to be seamless, right? So it would feel like the original.

[00:56:00] And, um, Joe is, Joe is actually a good friend of Bob's. They went to college together. I don't remember if they knew each other before college, but they certainly know each other a very, very long time. So he, you know, he knew Bob's voice. He could capture his voice because he's known him forever. And I know Bob very well. Um, working with him, you know, every day. So, so I could capture Bob's voice too.

[00:56:29] So that, that helped make that seamless. And I could capture Bob's voice in the way Joe captured his voice. Right. So it was a little tricky. What I did was I interviewed Bob. Um, we wanted to fill in those chapters where he had traveled a great deal and he went to China and he went to Australia. Um, and he went to Russia and we wanted to put all that in. So I interviewed him and the thing about Bob is that he speaks the way he writes.

[00:57:00] So he, he speaks with a beginning, middle and end. Everything has an anecdote, right? So it's kind of, he's such a natural storyteller, even about himself, that it's very easy to translate his experiences in these countries to the book and make it interesting for the reader. One of the things we wanted to do with that book was we wanted to echo goosebumps in a way in terms of the chapter endings.

[00:57:29] So they're not, they're not scary. We don't have him being chased by werewolves, but he, but every chapter ending, I don't know if you noticed, ends on a cliffhanger, right? But it's still a cliffhanger. So, so the other key to adding these new chapters was also to figure out those cliffhangers, how we would do that. Um, and, and it all worked out.

[00:57:57] So I think it is seamless and, um, and his, the information on the trips and the time he had on, on the trips in China and Russia, um, was really interesting. And he had such a wonderful time there. Yeah. So like right here we have pictures of some of the standees from when he was in China and then right here is, uh, Jane on the great wall. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Stuff like that.

[00:58:22] And what you were saying about the cliffhangers, I was flipping through the end of chapter 16. It says, I got goosebumps when I went to Australia too. Cause that's, but that's because I had entered a parallel universe. Right. You see, right. Exactly. So it really is like that. That was a trick, trick. You know, I took all the material that he gave me and spoke about, and I had to figure out how to basically arrange it so that I could end on these cliffhangers to get you

[00:58:51] to the next chapter to make you want to turn the page. Um, one of the other ones was something with, um, I think it was, he was, he was the only writer with a seal act. I think we used that as a cliffhanger. He was on the plane with Laura Bush. Um, and he described where he was sitting in the plane. Um, and he was, I think he was wondering if she had known he was not only a writer, but

[00:59:19] a writer with a seal act, if he would have had a better seat on the plane. Yeah. Right here. It says, I wonder where I would have sat if Mrs. Bush knew that I wasn't just an author. I was an author who also did a seal act. That's right. An act with a dancing seal. I know you're going to want to hear about that. Right. You see? Right. So we use that to get you to the next chapter. Right. It's awesome. It really is like, just, it's totally his, his style of storytelling.

[00:59:47] And it's like, there's no denying that like the goosebumps is primarily his, you know, I've heard talks of like, what, what is going to be goosebumps going to be like if they continue it after God forbid, you know, Arlstein passes away. And I'm like, you're never, ever, ever going to get it to be the same. It really never will. No, he's goosebumps. That's it. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:00:12] And I did want to bring up really quickly that there is a little bit of mention of you in here in chapter 15, where he talks about you and Heather Alexander, who were two of the goosebumps, the two goosebumps editors. Right. You know, it says that you worked really hard to make sure each story was as good as it as the last. I told him when the story was too scary, when it wasn't scary enough.

[01:00:38] And when it wasn't a story at all, I didn't want to mention it. It's really funny. Like, and actually funny enough, Bjorn, there is mention of girl cried monster and how it did have to be changed to turtles and snails. See? So it was like, I actually think that's even, he says it, he's like, I actually think that's even more gross than eating children.

[01:01:05] For one thing, snails and turtles make a much, much better crunching sound when you chew them. That's probably where I did read it or hear it. Cause I was like, I couldn't remember where I'd heard it or read it. And that, cause I've read the book. So obviously that's where I have seen it. So yeah. Well, and there's also mentioned of Night in Terror Tower and how they had to cut down on the running, like, cause there was so much running in the book. Oh my God. The chapter was running and running and running.

[01:01:34] The other thing is Bob should not write when he has a cold. He wrote this one book. He had a cold. And in every chapter, the kid was so tired. And he was, and I said, Bob, like 10 year olds are not this tired, but they were so tired and they wanted to go to bed because he was sick when he was writing, you know? So yeah. So the running and there were a lot of chickens in that book.

[01:02:00] A lot of chickens, a lot of, a lot of dry dirt. Chicken, chicken. Chicken. Scratching the dirt. Oh my God. Oh, chicken, chicken. We always talk about that. Oh, chicken, chicken. That one's hilarious. Yeah. That was, that is such a funny. That is our running gag in this podcast for the past year is almost every episode we somehow have a tie in chicken, chicken. Oh yeah? We wish they did a TV episode of that. I like my hairiest adventure.

[01:02:30] I like that one a lot too. Yeah. The goofy ones are like some of the most fun ones because it's like, especially because you know, my hairiest adventure and you have just the boy on the cover with the hair growing on all of it. And you're just like, I gotta see what this is. Like, I just need to know. Right. It was. You but he hit him hot. God.

[01:02:54] And I also could have sworn that I heard him say at some point that he was like, he was in an interview and he was like, who would you want to, somebody asked him, who would you want to play you in a Goosebumps movie? And it was before the movie was announced and he said Jack Black. So when it got announced, I was like, wow, he got his wish. Oh yeah. I never heard that. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like I've heard it, but I can't for the life of me find where it was.

[01:03:24] So it's always been, and maybe I'm misremembering, but no, but those two, there's a movie that would have you in it, Susan, who would you want to play you? Well, Meryl Streep, right? Come on. She's super famous. And I'm so Meryl Streep. And how many Oscars does she have now? I don't even remember.

[01:03:51] But no, those two books, I mean, you technically got to write some of your own, you know, Goosebumps stories. If you are ever given the chance to write a full Goosebumps story of your own, have you ever thought about like what the plot would be? Like, what would you like to see out of a Goosebumps story? Um, you know, a good question.

[01:04:16] I think that we, I don't, first of all, I don't think that I would write horror. The books that I write are more fantasy oriented, but, um, it's hard to say because I feel like I've done it with Bob. So, you know, um, I was happy that, um, that this, that the sleepover book we're doing, the

[01:04:43] last sleepover has to do with, um, with technology. And I want, that I want, I wanted to do a book like that. And I was so happy when he decided he wanted to also. So, so it has to do with, um, living in a smart home and what could go wrong. Right. That is a good idea. Yeah. Yeah. So that, no. So that was something that I was happy to see.

[01:05:10] Cause that if, if I were to write something like that, that's what I would write. And, and lucky for us, you know, he decided he wanted to do that too. So that was great. I've always been like really interested in the idea of a haunted smart house because that sort of technology is so widespread and so mainstream nowadays just to have all these electronic things controlling everything in your house.

[01:05:37] And just the idea of it was haunted like that is a very interesting idea. I agree. Right. Isn't there like a Simpsons episode on that? It wasn't haunted. It was just the, the, the computer just kind of went awry, but you know, you know what I mean? It's like the idea of a robotic house taking control and, you know, trying to get you, you know? Right. Right. Cause yeah. So he, you know, he, he wanted to do that too. So that was a happy moment.

[01:06:07] I think my smart house is taking over my life. So in subtle ways it might be for all of us. But yeah. That could be a really good concept for like the Goosebumps TV series. Like if they do a season three back, like, cause obviously he mentioned about wanting to do what he would like. Cause I don't know if you saw, there was a recent interview where they asked what they would like to do for season three. If season three happens, he said he'd like to do some of the newer house of shivers books.

[01:06:35] And I thought that one could be awesome. Like it's in that house. That's a smart house. That would be perfect. That would be perfect. And somehow ties in other Goosebumps. Or even just bring back the Horrorland idea. Like the, the, just having it all in that one connected area. It's a very good framing device for a story. Yeah. I think so too. That, I think that world he created was pretty amazing. Yeah.

[01:07:03] Everything felt connected and that's always, it always, it always does work if you do it correctly. And I think he did it correctly. Yeah. Um, so I want to get your opinion. So Goosebumps 2, when they first announced the sequel to the first film, it was Goosebumps Horrorland. And we all got so excited because we were like, wait, you're doing Horrorland? Like, and then. Like. Changed. Still got a great film, but that was the original idea.

[01:07:31] I think when I first announced the sequel, it was going to be Horrorland. Right. Right. So I want to get your opinion. So as we said, Goosebumps has been around for so long now and it's been around with many generations. What do you feel about Goosebumps' lasting appeal? Because, you know, we always talk about this, you know, folks who get involved with it early on. You never know when anything is going to really, really pick up traction with, you know, just the larger audience.

[01:08:00] So what is your opinion on just how it's transcended? You know, I don't think that it, that it, it's, it's timeless. The same things that scare kids, that scared kids 20 years ago still scare them today. Right. The unknown. The dark. Right. Ghosts. It's the same thing. And the same things kids worry about. It's the same from 20 years ago.

[01:08:29] So friendship and being, you know, being popular or being, being afraid or being brave or being afraid to be brave or, you know, all of those things, all, all of the, all of the subjects that Bob tackles really are timeless. So I, I think that's the key to it, that, that what held in 1992 still holds today.

[01:08:59] And he, and he knows how to tell a good, you know, he knows how to tell a story. So. Yeah. I agree. And I feel that's true for sort of the larger genre of young adult horror. I always said that Goosebumps was the first of its kind. Um, cause there were horror books before Goosebumps, but they mostly were for young adult, like teens and young adults, like twenties, uh, that sort of thing.

[01:09:27] But Goosebumps was one of the first that really targeted towards the elementary middle school demographic of kids. Um, and it set, it set a precedent for other series to, uh, sort of ride the coattails. There was a lot of, uh, uh, copycats and stuff like that and stuff like that. And, um, even, you know, RL Stein would do series like the nightmare room and mostly ghostly and ghost of fear street that were similar in ways to Goosebumps.

[01:09:57] But, uh, it, it, it really is. And I've always felt that horror for kids is very important because as I said, it, it prepares them for the real world. It's like you, if you're going to go out in the real world and you need to learn how to cope with your fear. And I feel like books like these do a good job of introducing those so that it toughens kids up a little bit. Um, it makes them more, uh, you know, courageous.

[01:10:26] It makes them more confident in themselves, um, that they can, uh, overcome certain issues. Uh, that's right. Right. I agree. Yeah. And, uh, I guess one last, uh, question here. So we've been talking a lot about Goosebumps. Uh, are there any other, uh, books that you've, uh, written yourself or books that you've, uh, edited for that are, uh, important to you?

[01:10:52] Um, I, two books that I have written most recently are these, um, wine to season good books. I don't know if you've seen them. Um, they were a lot of fun to write, to write. And unfortunately they, they're, they're funny and they're an adventure. And in certain ways they, they're like Goosebumps in that the chapter endings end on cliffhangers.

[01:11:20] Um, but they came out during COVID when nobody was in the bookstores. Um, so that was unfortunate. They came out in February and August of 2020. Um, so that was kind of sad. Um, I had hoped for more, you know, for these books. Um, so there's that. And I'm also working, I have, um, a couple of manuscripts out now with publishers. So we'll keep our fingers crossed.

[01:11:50] One is a little, uh, younger chapter book series, um, a detective series starring, uh, bloodhounds. It's very, and it's also funny. Um, and, and one is a middle grade book on, um, on this kid guy, kid who wakes up one morning and discovers that he's being attacked by every creature, every monster in Jewish mythology. And he's got to figure out why. Yeah. That's a really cool concept. Actually.

[01:12:20] I might be interested in reading that. Wow. That's circulating among publishers now. So we'll keep our fingers crossed. Absolutely. I wish you good luck. And I, it does stink that, you know, COVID really did take a hit on, you know, everything really in terms of media. But, uh, I really, I wish you luck in those, uh, other manuscripts that you have in production and, uh, they sound really good.

[01:12:48] Honestly, seriously, that, that last one, I might have to read myself. It's terrific. Absolutely. But, uh, yeah, no, it's, like I said, it's just been incredible to just kind of get some insight into your work on, uh, you know, our personal favorite book series and, uh, just kind of get a little insight on, uh, your personal experiences. So we're very fortunate to have the, had this conversation. Well, thank you for, thank you for having me.

[01:13:16] And now I'm not as scared of you because before that cover contest was like, no way. Don't worry. We're, we're going to think twice before we do something like that. All right. Okay. I guess to end things off, uh, do you have anything to say to some of the people out there who, uh, had been with this series for a long time?

[01:13:40] Well, you know, um, the editors over at a scholastic, you know, it's very, I think that I might be like in the Guinness book of records because I'm on this series for over 150 books for like 30 years. Right. So, um, so Bob and I really are the ones who have been doing it together, you know,

[01:14:09] this whole time, the editors at scholastic, of course, move on. They've changed. Um, the editors we're working with now are wonderful. Um, but, um, but things evolve and things, and things change. And I, I love the, um, the, as I said, the editors who we work with at scholastic and I love the new, um, then, uh, ball, the new, um, illustrator.

[01:14:36] Um, and I hope he continues on, um, with the series. Uh, so yeah, absolutely. And again, just a incredible opportunity. I personally feel just to, you know, be, uh, be involved with such a popular franchise, uh, still the number two bestselling book series yet to be dethroned, uh, from at least that spot.

[01:15:02] So very, very lucky to have worked on this series. Um, I think it made a difference in kids' lives and, you know, who gets to say that? I'm very fortunate. Very much so. Very much so. Well, we want to thank you once again, Susan, for joining us here today and talking some goosebumps with us. This was a great discussion. Thank you. Absolutely. And that's going to do it for tonight's episode of the Goosebumps Crew podcast.

[01:15:31] If you liked today's episode, make sure you leave a like and comment. Subscribe to the Goosebumps Crew. Follow us on social media and our audio platforms. You can also follow Bjorn and Nick at Goosebumps.com and Sean, respectively, on their social medias and your YouTubes. We'll be back with a new episode next week. But until then, this has been the Goosebumps Crew podcast. And from all of us here, we want to wish you all, as always, to take care, stay safe, and have a very scary day.