Swimming With The Fish People (ft. Tod Fennell)

[00:00:02] The most thrilling, frighteningly series ever! From the pages of R.L. Stine's best-selling books, and the screens go on forever and ever. We now return to Goosebumps.

[00:01:06] Greetings, Goosebumps fans, young and old, big and small, living dead and undead. Welcome back to The Goosebumps Crew Podcast. As always, I am your host, Isaiah Vargas. I'm joined by my good buddies, Beren Pownick and Nick Shaw. We are The Goosebumps Crew, and we are back to, as always, talk some Goosebumps. If this is your first time joining us here on The Goosebumps Crew, I want to sincerely welcome you all. If you are or have ever been a fan of the popular Goosebumps series of books or the monster franchise those books spawned, I have a feeling this podcast is going to be right up your alley

[00:01:33] because as I always say, me, Bjorn, and Nick are some of the biggest Goosebumps nerds on the entire planet. We can talk about Goosebumps for hours on end, and that is exactly what we do here on this podcast. Every week, I have a brand new episode talking about everything Goosebumps, whether it be the books, TV shows, movies, video games, merchandise, whatever it is. It has Goosebumps in the name. We're going to talk and talk and talk about it so much. We're going to cover every single base of this franchise by the time that we're even thinking of ending this podcast, which won't be for another 25 years or so.

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[00:02:58] That's right, it's been a little bit, but we are diving back into another episode of the 90s Goosebumps television series, which we love oh so dearly. And today's episode we're talking about is Deep Trouble. This is the seventh and eighth episode of the fourth season, which is actually also the series finale, the very final episode to ever air. It aired on November 16th, 1998. It was directed by William Fruitt and written by Jessica Scott and Mike Wolliger. I believe that's how you pronounce his last name.

[00:03:28] And it is based on, by name, on the 19th book in the original series. The plot itself is adapted from the 58th sequel in the original series, Deep Trouble 2. So it's sort of like a hodgepodge adaptation of the Deep Trouble duology. Now, as always, when we do these episode retrospectives, we can't do it alone. We've got to bring on somebody who's been on the episode. So we're very happy to introduce Mr. Todd Fennell, a Canadian actor who's done tons of roles,

[00:03:58] including roles such as the Assassin's Creed video game series. As we were talking beforehand, he was also in Brain Scan, which Bjorn is very, very happy about. And of course, he was Billy Deep in this episode of Goosebumps. Todd, thank you so much for joining us tonight. It's a pleasure to have you on here. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you. This is awesome. I'm so excited about this. And like also as a fan of the books myself, like when I was a kid, I used to order them as soon as they'd come in. So I'm super pumped about this. Thanks for having me on. Absolutely.

[00:04:28] We're very happy to have you on because this is a very interesting episode. As I said, it was the very last episode to ever premiere for the Goosebumps series. So it's a bit of a special one on top of also being a two-parter episode. So it's an extended length. And you got to star in this episode alongside Laura Vandervoort, another very popular actress who played your sister Sheena in the episode.

[00:04:54] Now, before we get into the nitty gritty of the episode, you know, Todd, you've been an actor for most of your career. And you've done tons of roles in TV and movies and video games. But how did your acting career start? Where did you start off with? Oh, okay. So both my parents were professional dancers and choreographers. And my mom had a dance school. And she'd done a couple of, like, choreographies for local TV shows and stuff like that.

[00:05:24] And when I was a kid, I would watch Back to the Future and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, the original. And I would run around the basement. But, like, a lot of kids would imitate, like, the lines. But I knew every single line in every single movie. So I would just, like, do the whole thing. And Ghostbusters, sorry. Ghostbusters also. Like, I was just... And then my mom was like, do you want to take acting lessons? Because you seem to really like this. And I was like, yeah, sure.

[00:05:52] So I started with Montreal Children's Theater. And then I did that for a couple of years. And then there was just some, like, cattle call auditions where they bring in hundreds of kids. And I think one of the first ones I booked was this cheese string commercial with a chimpanzee. And so, like, I'm eating a cheese string thing and he's eating the banana. And so I got that. And then I got a couple of little movies. And, like, local movies.

[00:06:19] And then I guess, like, Big Break was Lassie. I did three or four seasons on Lassie on YTV. And then it was on Animal Planet. And then from there, I started doing, like, bigger... Like, then we did the whole YTV thing where we did, like... YTV is in Canada. It was, like, the youth television. So we did, like, Are You Afraid of the Dark and Goosebumps. And Big Wolf on Campus. Do you know that show? Do you remember that show?

[00:06:49] That one I don't know. Okay, it was like a werewolf. It's going to be more of a year. Do you know it? I don't have hands, surprisingly. It was a funny show. It was, like, half comedy, but he was a werewolf. And anyway, so then I just kept doing it. And after high school, I was going to go to CGEP. And I was going to, you know... But then I got another part on a series. And I said, well, I'll do this series. And I'll, you know, go back to school after. And then the series went for a second season.

[00:07:19] And then I started doing commercials and video games. And I was like, well, this is what I want to do. So let's just do this. And I just kept doing it. And I've had other jobs and other things along the way. But I just... Yeah, I love it. I love the fact that you're always working with different people. And you're always working on a different story and a different character. So you kind of lack a little bit... It's sad when a project ends. Because you lack, like, the continuity of having a regular job. Where, like, you're staying with the same people.

[00:07:49] But at the same time, it's super exciting. Because you're always... It's always new. Like, it's always novelty. So, yeah. I love it. That's awesome. And, yeah. I mean, as we found out, you know, with the sort of talent pool in terms of, you know, child actors in Canada. It was very, very easy to get on. It definitely shows for YTV. Because it was, like... It was the big hub for Canadian-created shows.

[00:08:18] And definitely, I mean, everybody we talked to is like, oh, man. It was like a big pool. Everybody knew somebody. Yeah, that was Alan. Alan DeSette. One door went in. Another one would open. So, most definitely. So, they hired every kid from Canada, didn't they? Alan DeSette. He's like, I feel like every kid that lived in Canada was in Goosebumps or Are You Afraid of the Dark. So, yeah. We all know each other. Like, I did an episode of Are You Afraid of the Dark with Alicia Cuthbert.

[00:08:48] And so, she... Like, and she was like the it girl at the time. Like, she was starting to... I think she was... She got 24. She was about to do 24. And so, my girlfriend was super jealous. Because she's like, oh, you're working with her? And we actually went to the same high school. She was two years older. And so, she was so sweet. She came over. And she was like... I was with my girlfriend. And she's like, hey, your boyfriend's so nice. He was talking about you so much that you're like awesome and this and that. And she was like, oh, well, that's so nice.

[00:09:17] Just like put her at ease. And like, she didn't have to do that. And then like, it was just... She was just like super, super sweet. So, it was really cool. That's awesome. That's really cool. Yeah, we all... And Jay Baruchel too was from Montreal. And he worked with Alicia. And I'm still friends with actually Laura Vandervoort from Goosebumps. Like, I'm... We still... Like, I help her with auditions. She helps me with auditions. Like, we're still in contact after like, I don't know, 30, 25 years. So, yeah. That's awesome. That's cool.

[00:09:47] Actually, I've been... I tried to get her on this podcast as well for this episode specifically. But I couldn't get a response. Because I was going to try to do like a reunion episode. Oh, shoot. Like, the two of us. I kept in touch. Yeah. But I wasn't able to get in touch with her. So, maybe in the future. Yeah, I'll tell her. And when this comes out, I'll share this with her so that she sees it too. And yeah, awesome. Cool. It could still be done. It could still be done in the reunion. Yeah.

[00:10:14] But, so, before you got involved with the Goosebumps show, you said you were a fan growing up. So, what was it like growing up with the Goosebumps series? It was so cool. Because, like, my son now, you just saw him come down for a sec. He's a big reader now. And it was a couple of books that got him into reading early. And it was kind of the same for me.

[00:10:39] Like, it's like, the Goosebumps book, they got me into reading. Because I was so obsessed with the stories. And every time the Scholastics little flyer would come in to class, it was like, I wouldn't even look. I would just be like, Goosebumps, Goosebumps, Goosebumps. Just like, hit them all and order those. And, like, my parents loved it because I was reading so much. I just get lost in the books. And that carries forward to your whole life. You know, there's so many people that don't read. Or, like, it's too bad.

[00:11:09] Like, the kids don't read as much as I think, like, everyone should be a reader. Everyone should be an avid reader. It helps you in your career. It helps you creatively. It helps you with all kinds of things. Especially young. Because you can formulate these ideas. And it works your imagination. So, I just, I loved it. And I read all of them. And we had healthy competition. Like, me and my best friend, we try to have, like, the most amount of Goosebumps books. Like, so we, like, I'd be like, yeah, but I just got these ones. And you don't have those yet.

[00:11:36] And, like, so we try to one-up each other with, like, how many books we had. But we read them all. Like, multiple times. And, yeah. My favorite one was the, we were talking before, but the sponge that it came from under the sink. Yeah. And just, like, the originality and creativity with that. Like, how do you, you made a full book about, like, a little thing that turns into something, you know, horrible. And, like, she just keeps trying to shut it away. And, like, it'll go away eventually.

[00:12:05] And it just keeps coming back. I loved it. I loved that one. Yeah, that one is, I mean, that one's a iconic one. Did you have any, like, merchandise growing up? Like, did you get, like, because when you guys are trying to one-up each other with the books, you could have shown up to school and they would, like, your Goosebumps hat and shirt and been, like, look at me. I didn't have any swag. Look at a backpack, too. No, no, I didn't have any swag, but I had all the books. Like, my bookshelf was just, like, full. Had all of them. That's so cool. Yeah. I mean, we were talking about beforehand how I'd love to live back in the 90s, but I

[00:12:34] was a 2000s kid. Another reason I would have loved to be in the 90s is because I could have gotten all these books when they came out. So, technically, Nick was the only one that grew up with the whole dad. You say you would have kept the books, but see, when a lot of kids, myself included, sadly, when Goosebumps kind of, like, fell off the map in the late 90s, early 2000s, due to a

[00:12:59] lot of legal stuff and everybody knows from watching our podcast how that transpired. So, if you don't know, you can go back and watch those episodes, FYI. But, back in the 90s, it just disappeared, like, overnight. It was really strange. I mean, you could see Goosebumps stuff on clearance, but, yes, Harry Potter, like, Avada cadavered that shit. And just, yeah. A certain boy wizard, from what I was told, was one of the...

[00:13:29] Between the lawsuit and between that, it was a death sentence for Goosebumps at the time. So, a lot of people were selling their books at, like, yard sales and stuff. And, like, just, the love kind of fell out for a lot of people because there was nothing new. Yeah. I had a guy, I was at a... It was an anime convention, but I was going as a video game actor because I had done some... Kenna Bridge of Spirits is, like, it's kind of anime. It's, like, Pixar animation almost.

[00:13:59] So, I was going as a video game actor, but most of the people that came... There was two or three people that came to my booth with Goosebumps books. And they were, like, original, unopened. I just... Can you open it carefully and just sign here? I was, like, it's not even what this is, like, at all. But, yeah, for sure. That's so cool, you know? And it just brought me back. It's, like, really awesome. Oh, man. I love it. Yeah. It recently happened to Hayden Christensen, actually. Someone brought up a... Well, it was an image of him from Night of the Living Dummy.

[00:14:29] And I don't know who it was. It was someone that watches us that went up to him. I think it was CS Memorabilia, maybe? Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. CS Memorabilia. And apparently, he just had a big smile on his face, like, thinking, whoa. Like, this is crazy. Like, someone wants me to sign a Goosebumps thing. Oh, God. I can imagine being, like, finally somebody comes up with something that's not Star Wars. Oh, it's just fine. Yeah, that's true. And then Ryan Gosling, there was an image of him recently, like, doing, like, a signing.

[00:14:57] And someone had a massive Say Cheese and Die poster for him to sign. Yeah, he was at this... Not long after that, he did that interview for the Fall Guy where he talked about it. So, it obviously, it reminded him. So, yeah, they were asking him and Emily Blunt what cool props they got to keep from, like, shows and movies. And he said, oh, I got to keep the camera from Say Cheese and Die. Like, so, she was like, well, what are you talking about? Like, you know, but it's cool when they can be reminded of something they did in the past and then they actually bring it up in an interview or something. So, that was really...

[00:15:26] You know, that's a good segue question. Did you get to keep anything after you got done filming? No. Since it was the last episode? I didn't. I didn't. I... There was a lot of cool stuff, too. There was a puffer fish. That puffer fish that shoots the needles at us. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I didn't get to keep any of them. I think the guy who did...

[00:15:48] Who was the squid man that was turning into the squid and that helped us, I think he got to keep the prosthetics of... Because it was just fitted for his head, right? So, he got to keep that. But no, I didn't keep anything. It's too bad. It's too bad. I should have kept something. That stinks. I don't know if you snucked off set with something or if they gave you something. Something I like to ask, like, everybody who comes on who did the 90s show. Some have gotten stuff. Some have taken stuff.

[00:16:18] And others... Yeah, some have stolen stuff. Well, for instance, like, high air care. Some have still socks. Wasn't really given anything. But yeah, he took his socks. Okay. I almost... I had one of those needles for a bit, but I gave it back at the end. Because I was like... But you know... Because that scene where they pop those needles through the door? Like, they really did. Like, they had an air pressure gun. And they're like... But guys, like, stay back. Like, don't get close to the wall. It was legit. It wasn't CGI or anything.

[00:16:46] So, when they came through, we were really actually scared. Because it was a huge air gun. And they were smashing those needles through the door. So, we were like... Like, that's real. Our reactions are legit. Wow. That's crazy. Even if you got to keep... Sean and his team were good at their job. Yeah. Air pressure is a little bit higher. Go right through there. And next thing you know... It really is the last episode. So, like, it was, like, going to be in front of us anyway.

[00:17:15] But it still didn't give a lot of leeway. Mm-hmm. That sounds great. What about, like, the little remote control fin? They didn't let you keep that? Like... Oh, yeah. That thing. Yeah, yeah. In the beginning. Yeah. Yeah. And the ant... The ant was half real and half... Like, there was a real ant there. Like, I don't know. Do you remember that? That huge ant? Yeah. There's a big ant there. Yeah. Yeah. So, at one point, it's, like, fake. But there was actually a real huge ant that we were interacting with and, like, throwing things at.

[00:17:44] And it was done in the studio in Toronto. So, so awesome. The whole cavern was all built into the set. So, at lunch, we would go around and just walk through the cavern. It was an elaborate set. Like, a really big thing. That's awesome. Yeah. So, that wasn't, like, a location or anything they went to. They actually had a build... Because we've noticed, like, talking with a lot of people who did the 90s show that they had to use similar, like, locations around Canada, for the most part, to save money rather than building sets.

[00:18:14] Yeah. So... But this one, I don't know if it was used... I think it might have been used for another show also at the Times. It was a Toronto... I want to say, like, Stargate or something. But one of those shows, it was used for something else also. So, they were dual-purposing this cavern. And then they would dress it differently for Goosebumps because we had all the slime and the kind of green, you know, visuals on it. But we really did climb up.

[00:18:43] Like, it was all built. And it was all in a studio. So, yeah. It's really cool. Speaking of the sets, because you did have the cave, you know, for the ending. But there was also a lot of it takes place on this sort of, like, deserted island. Was that an actual, like... Was that an actual location? Was that, like, an island? Or was it just kind of, like, a beach area? It was in the exotic reaches of Lake Ontario.

[00:19:12] So, they had to, like, make Lake Ontario look like the ocean. And it is pretty big. So, if you get the right angles. But there's a huge nuclear power plant, like, that you can visibly see. And every shot, we had to angle it this way so that we didn't see the nuclear power plant. And I remember, like, Laura and I being like, is the water, like, cool here? Like, we could swim? Because no one's swimming. And we had to walk in it. And we're like, we see the nuclear power plant. So, is it cool? And they were like, it's fine. It's fine.

[00:19:42] The water's fine. And it was. It was fine. It was just... We were, like, 11 and terrified. So... It's just magic. It's not, you know... Three-eyed fish. If it's not magic, you know, genetically altered plankton, it's probably just the nuclear waste that's coming off from that power plant. No special effects needed. They just took the real fish. That's crazy. Like, wow. That's so funny. Now, how did you... You know, you were doing acting before Goosebumps.

[00:20:10] But how did you get involved with Goosebumps in particular? Or was it just sort of, like, a simple audition process? Or... Yeah. We auditioned. We auditioned... So, like, as a Montreal actor, they shot out of Toronto. But they were still open to auditioning Montreal and Toronto. And I was kind of in the YTV circuit because of Lassie. And I had done... I think I had done one Are You Afraid of the Dark by then. And then I did the Goosebumps.

[00:20:39] Then I did another Are You Afraid of the Dark? So, it was kind of... Like, they used a lot of the same actors. Like, if you would do Goosebumps, for sure you'd do an Are You Afraid of the Dark? And, like... So, I was in that kind of clique, which was nice. I didn't know Ryan Gosling or anything. But he was... Like, when he blew up, it was like, oh, cool. We could do that, too. It's awesome. Yeah. Those shows really wore cane in hand, though, in the 90s. Goosebumps Are You Afraid of the... They were like... Yeah.

[00:21:08] Well, I mean, even down to directors. Because even Ron Oliver, when we had him on, said the same thing. I mean, you know, they would... He would go direct or write some Are You Afraid of the Dark? And then do some Goosebumps. And, you know, oh, I worked with you on Goosebumps. Come over here and do Are You Afraid of the Dark? So, it was really a back and forth. And he talks about how, like, the kid pool wasn't as vast as it is today. Like, back then, it was a very small pool of Canadian kids to pick from. So, they really did have to kind of move them in between shows.

[00:21:38] But, I mean, that actually makes it kind of cool when you're watching Goosebumps. But then you can go to an Are You Afraid of the Dark episode and see, you know, one of your favorite actors from the Goosebumps episode doing Are You Afraid of the Dark now. So... Yeah. And the directors... I mean, you obviously know they can do a good job. Yeah. And a lot of those directors would come and do Lassie also. And they would do My Hometown, which was another show with Jay Baruchel. It was his, like, kid show. And I did an episode of My Hometown. And he did an episode... Like... So, yeah. We all kind of knew...

[00:22:07] Everybody knew everybody. It was cool. Nice time. I remember just, like, being a kid and, like... Because, obviously, when I was watching Goosebumps, like, Nick got to watch the premieres of all these. But when I was a kid, it was, like, 2000, 2001. So, Fox Kids was still... It was still popular. But, like, you know, obviously Harry Potter kind of was taking over. But, like, they would play all the reruns. And I remember, like, at, like, 7.30, Goosebumps would start on Fox Kids. And then, as soon as that ended, you would switch over to Nickelodeon.

[00:22:35] Because I Afraid of the Dark was always late in Australia. It was always on at, like, 8.30, something like that. So, like, yeah. I had, like, my little system worked out where I would watch, like, Goosebumps, I Afraid of the Dark. And it's funny. In my hometown, like, I remember that show, too. Like, that would come on as well. Like, so, it was... Yeah. It was all kind of connected somehow. Yeah. And Lassie was so similar to My Hometown. They always ended on this happy note. It was a really, like, family show. So, on Lassie, as a joke, because it was... My Hometown was shooting at the same time.

[00:23:01] So, on Lassie, like, at the end of every episode, it would be, like, a one-liner. And then Lassie would bark. And then we would all laugh. Right? So, it was, like, it was always the same thing. But what we used to do, me and the lead actor, is we would do, like, the whole... And then we'd go, in my hometown. And they'd be like, no, no, cut. Because it's the same formula for both shows, you know? Yeah, exactly. Oh, that's so funny. No, and, I mean, I can imagine, you know, because this was late into the series.

[00:23:33] Was there... Since this was the final episode, I don't know if this was, like, final in terms of production. Like, I don't know if, like, maybe this one got done before another one. But was there sort of, like, a vibe behind the scenes of, like, you know, this is the end sort of thing? Or was it just kind of, like, you know, everything's business as usual? No, there was a whole... Well, because the cast was different every time. So, we didn't have that feeling of, like, oh, this long-term thing's coming to an end. But the crew did, for sure.

[00:24:02] Because they had been involved in the whole, like, the whole thing. And I remember, because it was a two-parter, or because of scheduling, R.L. Stine came to the set of the before last one. So, Laura and I were crushed because I was like, oh, he's not coming to this one? Like, but this is the last one? And I wanted to meet him because I was a fan of... So, he didn't come to the last one, but he came to the before. And when I... I remember the first day I got there, I think for the table read, they were all talking about it. Like, they were all over the moon.

[00:24:32] They're like, oh, he was so cool. R.L. Stine came. And I was like... You know, I'm like, I think I was 13 at the time. And I'm like, okay, he's coming back? And they're like, no. No, he was here for this. And now he has the scheduling thing. And I was like, oh, no. But it still felt really, like, honored because it was still the last episode. And it was a two-parter. So, there was, like, more shooting. And it was such an epic, like, ending kind of thing. So, super lucky to have that.

[00:24:56] Did you ever get a chance to read the Deep Trouble and its sequel before you got involved with the episode? I read Deep Trouble, the first one, before the episode. And I remember being like, that's not Deep Trouble. But I didn't read the second one. And I heard after that the second one was the one that it was more based on. Yeah. That is a weird thing. Because, yeah. Because Deep Trouble 1, it deals with, like, a sea monster. And then there's a mermaid. And then there's this whole, like, trying to hunt the mermaid thing.

[00:25:26] The sequel deals with the genetically altered plankton that makes the fish grow into monster size. And sort of, like, you know, messes with humans and turns them into, like, hybrid fish creatures. And it's weird that they did go with the sequel for this one. Not that I don't think that, you know, that they couldn't have done the first one. I feel like they could have done the first one as a book or as an episode in some way.

[00:25:55] But it's also not uncommon because they did the same thing for the first Slappy episode. All the way back to season one. The first Slappy episode was not based on the first Slappy book. It was based on the second one. So, yeah. Originally, they called it Night of the Living Dummy 2, though. Yeah. Because they called it Night of the Living Dummy 2. They didn't call Deep Trouble, Deep Trouble 2. They did. But it was when they did... You uploaded all these videos, actually, Isaiah, on your channel.

[00:26:24] But when they originally were, like, promoting Night of the Living Dummy, they just called it Night of the Living Dummy. They didn't call it Night of the Living Dummy 2. They said, catch Night of the Living Dummy on a brand new episode. So, it was almost like they were almost going to just call it that. It was so odd. That is odd, though. That is odd. Yeah. They did it a couple times in Goosebumps.

[00:26:46] It caused so much confusion because whenever they would, like, you know, for that DVD that Bjorn was showing, it uses the cover art for the first book and not the second book, which has this little fishy on there. Oh, shit. But that was just always a weird thing. But, yeah. So, I was curious if you knew about that going in. If I'm not mistaken, I think this book was not too old by the time this episode premiered. I was confused when I read the script, for sure.

[00:27:15] I was like, but I read the book. This isn't the script. It's not what happened. But I hadn't read the second one, so I didn't know. Yeah. No, it's a very weird turnaround that they did. But, you know, I mean, whatever. I'm not mistaken for this one. I don't know. Like, well, the thing they did with Goosebumps, like, with a lot of it, is they would read the books and go, oh, no, this won't work. So, Deep Trouble 2, I think, does work better for an episode. Like, I think they could have done the first one, like you said, Isaiah. But I think...

[00:27:44] I guess, but it was so much in the water, right? The first one was so much in the water. And I think that drives production costs, like, through the roof. Because you've got to get everybody out on the water all the time. And I'm sure that would have been, like... Yeah. That's the thing, too. Because this one is, like, you know, I think there's one scene... Well, no, there's two scenes. There's one at the beginning with the shark fake out. It's actually Billy pranking Sheena. And then there's the scene where they have to go to the island.

[00:28:13] And then that's where they get deserted. Yeah. But most of the episode takes place on, you know, on land. It takes place at the house and then on the island. More of the aquatic themes come from the sort of creatures that get affected. The fish people, the giant iguana, the giant crab. Things like that. Oh, just speaking of the sets, the... You know the lab, when you go down into the lab?

[00:28:44] Mm-hmm. Yeah. That was actually also in studio. And it was in the same studio as the cave. So, like, the lab was over here. And the cave was, like, 20 feet away. So it was, like, the same... So we'd be shooting, like, that scene. And then we'd just jump to the other scene. That's so cool. I love that lab scene, too. Like, the sort of... The lighting of the greens and the blues. And just all, like, the fish tanks and the beakers. It was a really cool set for, you know, a sort of monster chase or whatever. Yeah. And then the ant...

[00:29:13] The ant was on the other side of the lab. So the lab was there. The giant ant was right here. And then the caves were over there. It was all in the same studio. So we never had to leave. Like, the on-location stuff was the beach and the house. But then all of the cave stuff and then the lab and the... Going through the tunnels. That was all on location. No. Yeah. That's awesome. Oh, another fun fact. I don't know if you guys know, but Laura was a black belt... She was a black belt second Dan, I think, by the time we were shooting.

[00:29:43] So, like, I was all proud because I think I just got my black belt. And I was like, yeah, I'm a black belt. Because we started talking about it. And she's like, yeah, that's cool. That's really cool. I'm a black belt second Dan. And I was like, what? I'm like, how? Already? It's like you got humbled right there. Yeah. I was so proud of it. Now, I guess that's a great segue into my next question. What was it like getting to work with Laura as your co-sir? It was cool. It was cool.

[00:30:13] And it's actually, like, the only time where... Because I had been doing it for a while. And I think that was her first... One of her first gigs. So for her, it was, like, brand new. And she was just kind of getting to know the acting scene. And we became friends, like, instantly. I was playing a lot of Magic the Gathering. I was a bit of a nerd. I was, like, really into Magic. But then we bonded over, like, talking about karate and martial arts and stuff. And then we just, yeah, we stayed friends ever since.

[00:30:41] And we never worked together on anything else for years and years and years. And we just... We stayed friends. And we actually... We wrote a film together. A feature film that we were pitching. And we're still kind of... It's still kind of in development. So, like, creatively, we line up, too. She's very good at coming up with ideas and, like, blue skying. Like, and feeling the market. Like, what would work right now? What's kind of the story that needs to be told right now? And I love screenwriting.

[00:31:10] So I love, like, figuring out the problem. Like, you know, if she gives me the problem, I'm like, okay, let's try to figure out, like, how these characters are going to interact and how we build the story, like, concretely. And so, yeah, it's just fun. It's fun to creatively work with her. And, like, even for auditions and stuff, when we do self-tapes, I'll read for her. And I'll give her feedback if she wants. And she'll do the same for me. And we try to get the best out of each other. So it's just, like, so good to have a friend like that that's been...

[00:31:41] Yeah. Like, goes back that far. And that's been in it from the beginning. And we also share a lot of the same struggles. Like, being a child actor in the 90s and then coming up now and making the transition to being an adult actor. And then, you know, now we're 40. So, like, just all of the things were... And how the industry has changed from, you know, filming with, like, we had a residual system and everything was on television to now everything's streaming and how even the audition process is different.

[00:32:10] So we have, like, someone to kind of bounce it off of, you know, and even just rant sometimes about our frustrations or whatever. But we have a shared kind of experience. So it's fun. It's... It's... I'm just... Yeah. I'm very grateful for that relationship that we got to... Yeah. You've been acting buddies since 1998. Like, that's just... That's awesome. And, yeah. Like, it's good to have someone that you can, like, bounce off, you know. Like... Because then, yeah, you get the best out of each other because you're comfortable with each other. And you can, you know, try to, you know, and give each other feedback.

[00:32:40] So that's awesome. Well, yeah. Yeah. So the big two is, like, her and Corey Sevier also from Lassie. Same thing. We're still, like, good friends. Our kids play together. We visit them whenever we can. Like, we're still really, really tight. Corey Sevier? Corey Sevier, yeah. Another Goosebumps veteran. Yeah. I think... He was in the episode prior... I believe it was... Cry the Cat. I believe it was the third episode of season four, Cry the Cat. Yeah, yeah.

[00:33:10] He was one of the supporting characters. And then he was also in Night and Terror Tower also. So that's awesome that you got to work with him. He's, honestly, he's another one that's been eluding us for an interview. I'll message him, too. I'll message him, too. I've been trying to get in touch with him because we had Catherine Short on here a couple times. Oh, yeah. So we had a Night and Terror Tower retrospective, and I was going to try to get them both on together. You still make it happen. We couldn't get in touch with them. You'll make it happen. Thanks. Yeah. You're sure.

[00:33:40] I'll message both of them. I'll try to get them on. Because they remember... I mean, it's pretty amazing. Because when we had Catherine Long on here, I told her the same thing. I was like, look, I've been trying to get in touch with Catherine Short. I was going to try to get her on an episode with you. She's like, oh, yeah, no, I still talk to her, too. Let me see if she's interested in it. I was like, okay. I was like, fantastic. I was like, yeah, I can't get in touch with her. That's how we made it happen. That's how we get a lot of this and how we've actually been able to keep these kind

[00:34:10] of connections and still bring them back every once in a while or talk to them about opportunities outside of the podcast, which hopefully our fans will find out about soonish with announcements. You know, we'll talk a little bit after that. This podcast tonight, Todd. I can't put it on here, but just yet anyway. One thing I will say is that, again, it goes back to that sort of talent pool of how everybody knew somebody. Everybody knew somebody.

[00:34:37] It was almost like whether you knew it or not, it was like one big extended family. Everybody got to love with somebody. At some point. And even when you didn't know, like you'd work with another, like for child actors, I'd work with another actor and you're like, I saw you in that thing. And you're the guy from the thing. Like we all knew each other. Like, or I just missed you. I did the episode before you. I did the episode after you. Yeah. It was a small pool. Like you said, a small pool. Definitely. It is.

[00:35:05] And I know we got, I think it was, I want to say it was Catherine. And I could be wrong. Catherine long. Um, but they said usually when they go to audition, uh, somewhere, usually you see the same people. So you're like, Oh, Hey, you know, how's it going? Blah, blah, blah. Cause again, small pool. You're just going around to all these different kid shows from Are You Afraid of the Dark. And, and you'd think it'd be more competitive. Honestly, you'd think it'd be more like, Oh, I'm getting this. I'm going to psych this person out, but it's so friendly.

[00:35:34] It's like, cause we all know we're in this, all in the same thing. And we're all dealing with so much rejection all the time. Cause even if you're good, you only get one out of every 40 auditions or something. So we're all just supportive. It's like, Hey, great to see you break a leg. You want to run lines before you go in? Like nine times out of 10 actors are like that in a waiting room. It's like, there's no, I'm trying to psych you out or whatever. And the ones that are like that, nobody really likes them anyway. So it's like, after a while, it just kind of don't work as much. So it's fine. You know?

[00:36:02] Well, that's the thing I can imagine too, like with child actors, it's like, you don't, when you're a child, you don't have that like sense of cynicism where you're just kind of like, I want this and nobody else should have it. Like, I'm just happy to be here. Like, I'm just, I'm just happy to be here. Yeah. Um, there were some, you could tell, like, I'm not going to name any names, but there's a couple that you could tell, but it only came from like a crazy stage mom or something that was coaching them to be like, Hey, you know, you don't talk to the other.

[00:36:32] That's your competition. You know? Like, but most of the time kids were just, we're all just playing in the waiting room. It's just like, you know, and then go in and have fun. Hmm. Hmm. Just imagine that mom, like walking up to the casting director. So has he got the gig or, you know, I'm sure there was moms that did that. I think that spans across everything. Yeah. But it's so funny to me that you say that because like my daughter, when she's watching TV, sometimes it's dance moms.

[00:37:02] And I don't sit here and watch the whole episode, but I can hear it. And I'm just like, why do you watch this? It's like, this is awful. These parents are awful. These kids just want to dance, man. And I was like, and that teacher's awful. And she's just like, you're entertaining. She's like, I can't get enough of it. We can reference other movies on this. We can say like, yeah. Oh yeah. Okay. Okay. So do you remember, was it in, was it in Borat or Bruno the movie where he had the, uh,

[00:37:28] he had the, the kids, the parents come in and like, we're just going to need to tan the babies. That's okay with you. Right. We're just, they need to tan a little bit. And the parents were like, oh yeah, absolutely. That's fine. Yeah, sure. Sure. A couple of minutes in the tanning bed. No problem. And it's like a one-year-old and like, they'll do anything to get the kid in the gig. It's like, what? They're desperate for the kids to be like famous, you know, like, cause then they get to be the parents of that kid. So. Well, that's exactly. They live vicariously through their, like, I want celebrity status. Yeah.

[00:37:57] I want the celebrity status by being the parent of a celebrity. So. Yeah. That's sort of thing. That's so funny. Um, so, uh, in terms of your, uh, you, you didn't get to act along too many other, uh, co-stars besides, uh, Laura, but you did have, uh, uh, you know, Dr. Deep, you know, Billy and Sheena's uncle. Um, and then a few, uh, as you said, you know, Jason who played, uh, the, the, the squid, uh, person that helps you out at the end. But, uh, any standouts from, uh, the other, uh, cast members that you can remember?

[00:38:28] From Goosebumps or? Yeah. Um, I mean, they were all, they were all super cool and very nice and professional and, uh, and good for, with us. Cause we were kids too. So like, you know, it was good. Um, no, I don't remember. I remember thinking that the Jason guy was so cool. Cause I was like 13 or 14 and he was like 20 and I was like, oh, this guy's got it made. He's so cool.

[00:38:58] So cool. You know, I would not be surprised. He looks like the kind of guy who like, who would have like a leather jacket on Roy ride on like a Harley or something like that. Like a bomber and like the nineties. That's the thing too. It's like, he did sort of seem like come off as like that older brother S sort of person, like sort of that guy that would just come up to you and be like, you know, like you doing all right. Like you need anything, that sort of thing. Like trying to play a lab tech nerdy dude, but you can tell he's super cool. Like he's just a cool guy. So yeah.

[00:39:28] Definitely. Absolutely. Were there any sort of challenges that you faced in, in filming this episode? Was there any sort of like, you know, rough spots that you went through or was it all pretty smooth sailing? I mean, there's pretty long hours, I guess. Like, because, um, especially the last scene, I remember the last scene when we confront all

[00:39:54] the fish people and the doctor and it's Laura and I, and Jason's character and every, we're all together. So the scene is, there's such a big cast and there was like torches in the background and we're on, we're in that huge room. And I think we had to come down from, from like a high point. We were like up in a, I remember like had to physically climb the thing and be up there. So like that was challenging because like anybody makes a mistake and it's, it's over. We got to restart.

[00:40:23] It's not like just me and Laura or like, you know, three actors and there's a wide shot or a closeup. And it was like everybody and the big wide shot of everybody. So I remember that wide shot taking forever, like take after take, after take, after take. Um, but you got to get it, you got to get it perfect. Cause it's like, it looks good when everybody's on their A game and you see the whole thing. Right. Um, exactly. But, and some of the, some of the stuff by the water, like when we had to go into the water, it was very, very cold and we had to pretend like it was a tropical Island and

[00:40:52] like, it's nice and the water's nice, but it's freezing like up to our knees. So that was a bit, uh, oh, and I loved, I mean, I'm going to cause I, I like, I do martial arts and I do, I did a lot of my own stunts in some movies and stuff. So I love doing stuff like that, but there was the trap door thing where we fall down, he grabs him by the, by the mouth. And then I fall through like a little trap door and I love doing that. We did that a bunch of times to make it look as, as scary as possible.

[00:41:21] Uh, so that part was really cool. Stunts. Yeah. That must have been a really big thing. Big thing for nineties kids. Cause that's what I did too. I did martial arts, but I didn't do karate. I did Taekwondo. Um, so it's funny that, you know, it's goosebumps, martial arts, and just, of course, every kid wants to be a stunt person. You know what I mean? Like all your friends around, of course.

[00:41:50] So to actually grow up and get to do it, that was pretty cool. Yeah. It was, it was, and like the martial arts was a big, like it was my grounding thing. Like that was the thing that gave me a lot of confidence and made me feel like I can do anything on set. Like whatever they ask, like, yeah, I could, I could do that. I could try to figure out how to, how to do that. And, uh, a little off topic, but I did a movie in my twenties and my early twenties in China where I was like a wushu warrior. So I was like the martial artist.

[00:42:17] And we got to do wire work because it was close to, I think crouching tiger, hidden dragon was just had just came out. So we did a bunch of stuff where like, I run up a, uh, run up a building or, you know, jump off of it. Like, and it was all wires and I, I loved it. It was the coolest. It was like flying, you know? And they're all like queued up. Yeah. I see. The wire harness, like, I guess maybe depending on the person it's very uncomfortable though.

[00:42:45] Like, is it really that? You get used to like, so to do a sidekick, it's really tough because it pulls you straight. Up. So how are you going to turn sideways? You got to like turn sideways and then, and then kind of like bring yourself back. It's all like core. You have to like, but, um, but I liked, I liked when it would bring you up, like jumping off things sucked. Cause it's kind of like more, you're going down and they're controlling the descent. But when you would, you would jump up something to climb and they would just accelerate your,

[00:43:15] your lift. That was cool. Cause it felt weightless felt like, Oh, I'm like a superhero. I could just, I just climb up this building. Like it was really awesome. Well, I used to be, I imagine like just being a kid, like if I were a kid and I were like being able to do like these crazy stunts, like action stunts. Cause you know, you, you usually see stunts, you know, it's usually like adults who are doing them. Um, because you know, they're the ones who are trained or the ones, and also you don't have to deal with liability issues. Yeah. You drop a kid out of a tree.

[00:43:44] It's like, it's a big problem. Exactly. It's like, Oh, then you got a real promise. Um, the kid had a tree. That's cool. But you dropped me out of a tree and my first movie, I was, I was, uh, eight or nine. And I mean, it was a crash mat and it was a whole big thing, but I did climb up a huge tree and the camera, the camera didn't catch me falling or, or the, the bottom. They just wanted to catch this part. Like, just like whoosh.

[00:44:09] So they dropped me like from, I'd say 25, 30 feet into, and that's when they, the stunt guys gave me my stunt badge. Like it was stunt unit at the time. They gave me this black. I'll remember it was like black and Chrome around and it said stunt unit. And they're like, you got your credits. You're in the stunt union now. Like you are. I was like eight years old. I was like, yes. Yes. That's cute. That's awesome. Yeah. We, I've asked, uh, a couple others that have come on here before.

[00:44:39] Uh, especially with the, the new goosebumps Disney plus show. I, I asked them because watching the episodes, I'm like, did they let you do your own stunts or do anything? Very few times would they actually do anything? I mean, even to the point where like, uh, I was told, I think it was Galiah said that they wouldn't even let her be carried over a shoulder for somebody that was hurt. Stop double. I was like, just to be carried. I was like, that's crazy. Like the wild west. Like I remember. Okay.

[00:45:08] So in Lassie, the first episode, uh, Corey and I, Timmy, Timmy and Jeff, we go on a raft and we almost fall off of a waterfall. So, but the raft had a, like a link on it. So the raft wouldn't go far. Like it was tethered with a cord, a steel cord. And we had life jackets on. So, and there's divers and everything, but that was the first scene we shot of the whole series. We shot that scene first. And me and Corey always joke from, from the beginning.

[00:45:38] We're like, yeah. Cause if they were going to lose us, they could reshoot. Like if we went over the top, hire some other two kids, get two more. Yeah. Oh man. Yeah. Like that's the most dangerous thing we ever did in Lassie and they did it first. Wow. I mean, I guess, I guess it's efficient. I'll give them that. It was safe. But to be honest, it was safe. Like they had divers and everything. It was very safe. But like, how ironic. Wow.

[00:46:08] Going back to the, the goosebumps episode. I do want to ask. So, you know, we talked about Jason's prosthetics, which was really cool. Cause he had like these tentacles all over his face. But there's multiple people in that episode who have sort of fish like mutations on them. What was your reaction to just some of those, like those masks and prosthetics when you first saw them? It was so cool. Cause you get, you could see them doing it too.

[00:46:35] Like it takes hours and hours and we're, we're waiting to go in. So like, we're just hanging around. We're just two teenagers hanging around, waiting to shoot. So we have nothing else to do. We didn't have cell phones. So we would go over and I'd watch them put it on. And I was just in awe. I was like, this so takes forever. Forever. And it looks so good. And they, there's a lot of touch-ups like, because these are real life people and they're moving and they're acting and the lights are hot. So like sometimes, you know, like the tentacle kind of detaches and they got to come back

[00:47:05] with the glue and make it, you know, perfect and blend right before. So the touch-ups were all, you know, it was the makeup touch-ups, but then also the special effects touch-ups. But I find that even just as a spectator, forget like being an actor and in it. But when I watch movies, it's so much more, it's so much more realistic when it, you can tell that's a real person standing there. That's a real, like CG, no matter how good it is, it always kind of takes me out of,

[00:47:35] I'm like, okay, so the real story is happening and there's some special effects. Cool. But when the monster is a real freaking monster and like they have the hair and the tentacles and the teeth, it's like, that's really there. Like you can tell, you can feel it. So I like, I love that they can do that. And I got one of the, like from BrainScan, Alain, I think was his name. He, he did my prosthetics.

[00:48:01] Like my dad just took me there and asked if they would do my Halloween costume because I had just done BrainScan and then I wanted to be a werewolf for Halloween. And he did the nose, he did the ears, he did like teeth and everything. So I showed up to elementary school and people were like, dude, like you look like it's like a real horror movie. Like I had a fursuit and then I put clothes over top that I tore. So the hair was coming out. It was like, it was in the most epic costume done by a professional, like special effects guy.

[00:48:30] And he was just so, so nice. It's really cool. That was so cool. They'll be like, oh, cool mask. And I'm like, you think this is a mask? Is there a photo? Is there a photo of that? I do. My dad has the, my dad has the picture. I could get it, but my dad has the picture. Yeah. And I'd love to see that. That's so cool. Yeah. I would love to see that. School with it, with a professional makeup artist having done your Halloween costume. I can only imagine. Yeah. And I didn't win the costume thing. I didn't win. Somebody else won the costume thing. And I was like, what?

[00:49:00] What are you on that team to win this? Tom. They probably thought you looked too good. Like he didn't do that. Like he didn't do that. They were probably just like, oh man, this kid's going to swap everyone else. We better, we better do something about this. Hey, I got, I'll just tell a very quick story about that. So when the second Goosebump movie came out, they had a costume competition and you got to win, like obviously being the big collector. Like I know I didn't get it cause I'm not a kid. Right.

[00:49:25] But I like went in with my full, like slappy dummy, like my proper, like well-made one that costs thousands of dollars. I dressed as RL Stein with the full morph suit and I didn't win. And I'm like, I was like, the, the embodied the whole thing. People were taking photos of me because they thought it looked so cool. I think it was more just the slappy doll they wanted photos with. And then, yeah, I didn't win it. So I'm like, I guess you look too good. And they're like, no, that's just unfair to the kids.

[00:49:55] Like it's unfair. Yeah. That's what it was. Yeah. Yeah. You care about the kids. Let me win my prize. I deserve it. Deserving. Oh, speaking of which, you know, you get a Goosebumps fan and then you get to be on the Goosebumps show. Uh, you, you said that you were having a whole competition with your friend for all the books. Was that something you were able to lord over them? Just be like, well, I got to be on the show. I won. I won. I win. I win.

[00:50:22] Oh, it's like, you may have all these books, but were you on the show? I didn't think so. You know what's funny is like, I got teased. I got teased for being on Lassie because high school kids, you know, like I was, I was a junior, like I was grade seven or eight and they were grade 11. So I got teased for being on Lassie. I got even a bit teased for, are you afraid of the dark for the episode that I did, but I never got teased for Goosebumps. It was like, yo, cool. That's really cool. Like, it was like, everybody just thought that was cool.

[00:50:52] And I was like, oh, thanks. The kids that teased are jealous. They're just, that's it. You know, like they're just jealous. But I mean, like, I can just imagine you sitting there, like with your friend, you know, you Goosebumps and you guys are sitting there and the commercial comes on. You're like, oh, oh, who's that? Who's that? Who's that? Who's that? Who's that? I'm sorry. What were you saying? Oh man. I don't know. I just pictured that in my head. Like, that's so funny.

[00:51:19] What was your favorite scene to shoot overall? Like, what would you say was probably like your favorite scene? I think the lab. The whole lab thing. Just because of how visually stimulating everything was that they had in there. And then like I said, with the air pressure darts shooting through the door, like, it was an adrenaline rush. Like, it was really fun. We had to run in and get behind the thing because it was one shot.

[00:51:47] Like, we had to get in and then go behind. And then when we said we were behind, like, the second AD or the first AD would cue the guy to shoot the darts. So it's like, no, these darts are coming in. When they yell action, we better be behind the thing. Like, so the likelihood, like in retrospect, the likelihood we would have got hit with them is zero to maybe the slight. But like, as a kid, you're like, oh, this is like happening. They're going to shoot this stuff.

[00:52:13] So yeah, that was and just the whole that whole scene, because we had this feeling like we're not supposed to be here. Like, we were in character, you know, like this is a taboo area. We're not supposed to be in the like spilling it. And the fish, the fish was like, so, so cool. But tacky at the same time was like perfect 90s, like, yeah, into the B movie era, you know, like, it's funny a bit on purpose, but it also is kind of scary.

[00:52:41] You know, it was you look at all the shows back then, like Power Rangers and all that. They all had this and it was the charm. That was the thing that was so awesome about the Goosebumps 90 show is that it had those creatures in it that like looked awesome, but they also looked a little silly at the same time. Yeah, exactly. Even the end, you're like, okay, like just a big paper mache thing. Like, is it? But but we're terrified of it. And yeah, well, that's the thing.

[00:53:07] It's like it moves like so stiffly lately because because you can't have it like move too quickly because you can't have an animatronic do that. But at least maybe, you know, not at the time, not in the budget. But no, it always is just something really funny. It's something I always make fun of with my friends is like, look, that looks awesome. But I can't help but laugh at it, too, because I'm just like, that looks a little corny.

[00:53:36] And it's cool that like you were saying before, like it had like multiple lifespans, like it was cool in the 90s and that disappeared for a bit. Then it came back. And like just a couple of years ago, my wife and kids went up to her hometown way up north and they stopped in Seven Islands. It's this little Quebec town. And they stayed with some of their family they haven't seen for a while. And the little cousins were like seven and eight. And they were watching my episode of Goosebumps. And like my wife is like, that's my husband.

[00:54:06] And they're like, what are you talking about? And she's like, no, that's the one. Like, why are you watching this? It's like a 25-year-old show, but the kids love it and they're watching it. And it just keeps coming back. It's so cool. You know, it's amazing to me, too, because I mean, we've had multiple people on here. Some have said that, you know, they're not really recognized when they're out and about. But like Eugene Lipinski, who was in The Girl Cried Monster, played Mr. Mortman.

[00:54:33] He was on here and said the same thing. He's like, you know, when I'm out and about, he's like, I sometimes still get recognized as Mr. Mortman. And he loves it. And it's really cool that that has just completely transcended time because everybody knows the song and can remember the show a little bit. But now it's just like a full resurgence again. It's really come back probably in the last five years.

[00:55:02] And this year, it actually celebrates its 30th anniversary. So that's actually really cool. The TV series, yeah. The books are... Yeah, the books, I believe, are 33, though. So they're just as old. So how many seasons did it do in total? Was it three or four seasons? Four seasons. Yep. But the fourth season was weird because it was four two-parters. So you had Deep Trouble was the last one.

[00:55:31] Then you had Cry the Cat, The Ghost Next Door, and How I Got My Shrunken Head. So those were the four last episodes. And they were all two-parters. Wow. But it was a pretty popular show. Looking at least from Fox Kids, it was number one for a very long time. In fact, I think 1996 was the most popular year. They would do all these promotions. They would do all these contests, these sweepstakes with Goosebumps. It was everywhere.

[00:56:01] It really, really was. That was the peak year we call 96 was peak Goosebumps. 96 and 97, I would say. Those two years is when it really started getting a bunch of merchandise. It started really, really becoming popular. And then my 98, 99, it started topping off a little bit. Honestly, we joke about Harry Potter and things like that. But honestly, sometimes things just do that. You know, fads come and go.

[00:56:27] And once the new thing comes on the block, you know, things are bound to die off. Well, kind of what you had said before with getting teased for doing Lassie. You know, and that's why Goosebumps tried to evolve doing Series 2000. Because the kids were growing up and they tried to make it a little more edgy-ish. You know, with their covers and the stories. So they tried to keep the kids as they were growing up.

[00:56:54] But it just didn't really catch on as much. Which is kind of sad because actually, I don't know if you did read any of Series 2000. But it's really good. The new ones? I didn't read the new ones, though. Yeah, the Series 2000, those came after the original series. So like the ones that everybody knows, like these ones. There were 62 of those. And then after that, there was like a sequel series that came out called Series 2000. It wasn't... I don't think it was as advertised.

[00:57:24] And it's not as remembered. The original books, those are the ones everyone knows. Because they were the ones that were the most printed. Those were the most iconic ones. So, but yeah. But the TV series had a pretty decent run of about three years. Three years, four seasons. So, and I think 70-something episodes. If you count two-parters, it's two episodes. 70. Wow. So, but yeah.

[00:57:52] No, I mean, people still show... I mean, people now show it to their kids. Because, like, you know, people... Kids who grew up in the 90s with the series are now adults. And they're showing it to their kids now. The books, the show. And 90s nostalgia is just big right now. Like, everybody's going back to their childhoods. Everybody is being like, hey, I used to grow up with this. Like, I know everything about this. For a while, it was 90s. Have you guys been to any 90s cons?

[00:58:22] Like, uh... I haven't been to a 90s con. But I have been to a horror con. And a gaming con. And both of them, I dressed up in, like, Goosebumps garb. And I got tons of people being like, I love Goosebumps. Or I grew up with that. Or can I take a picture with your slappy that you're carrying around? Yeah, because I really wanted to go to a 90s con. But affiliated with Goosebumps and Are You Afraid of the Dark? Because it was such a big part of the 90s.

[00:58:50] But I saw there's some pretty big 90s cons that are just like general 90s. Like, all the shows and all of the stuff. I'd love to get... I want to get into that. I want to, like, check some of them out. Yeah, there's a few of them out there. And some of them are starting to do the horror conventions. I mean, they're starting to get into the casts. And I feel that, you know, not to be, like, very big-headed on the subject, I guess.

[00:59:20] But I think a lot of that stems from, actually, this podcast. Because, like, we're bringing a lot of the actors who've been out of the light, most of them, for a long time. Imagine your heads are getting bigger when we say, when we say up on this. Yeah, no. I mean, I'm serious, though. Like, even Amos Crawley said it. He's like, I didn't even know there was a Goosebumps nostalgia until you guys told me. Like, I did your podcast. And now he's doing conventions, as you were mentioning. That's amazing.

[00:59:50] Yeah, that's so cool. You know, it's stuff like that. It's like, you know, we love hearing the stories. But we like, also, the fact that, you know, fans of the show can learn about things behind the scenes. And potentially even meet some of you guys in person. And get autographs and talk to you for a little bit. So, really, really cool. And even Cal Dodd. He voiced Slappy, but he's mostly known for voicing Wolverine in the X-Men animated series.

[01:00:20] Whoa, the 97 one? Yeah. Well, he did the original and the 97. He's done all the... Actually, one of our first guests, if you can believe it. Yeah. That's an epic role to have that Wolverine character. Yeah. And Slappy. He does Slappy? He does the voice of Slappy? Yeah. He does the voice of Slappy, but he also did the opening voice for the Goosebumps theme song. Like, viewer beware. You're in for a scare. That was his voice, too.

[01:00:48] And apparently they utilized him as much as he could. That's him. The most people, yeah, he says he did the dog barking, too. The Wolverine really did the dog barking. Yeah, he said he did the dog barking. He's like... Yeah. So, the arf, arf, arf, arf, arf. That's him. That's Wolverine. That's Wolverine. That just changed my whole life. That blew my mind. I just think that you got Kyle going. Guys, let's him. Let's use as much as we can from him.

[01:01:18] Oh, my gosh. I can't watch the team song the same way, knowing that's a guy doing that. Like... Yeah. No, that was totally us, too. I literally had people, like, after that episode message, like, calling him a liar. I'm like, why would he lie about that of all things? You're a liar. You can't convince me otherwise. Stop it! But then he also did the little notes, too.

[01:01:45] I feel like it's the ending of Halloween 3, where Tom Atkins is just yelling, stop it! Stop it! That's what I feel like the fans are doing. Stop it! Stop it! Because of... As Nick was trying to catch on, but because of the Goosebumps fandom now, he actually has, like, slappy prints now, like, at his table, because there's so many Goosebumps fans.

[01:02:09] And, like, people even bring their slappy dolls up, like, their full, like, $1,000, $2,000 ones that they've gotten. Wow. Like, you know, for him to hold and do, like, a photo-op picture now. So it's just changed. Goosebumps is really... Yeah, it's hit that nostalgia. That leads me very well into my next question. It's just, like, what do you think of, like, Goosebumps' long-lasting appeal? You know, being a part of the franchise and being a fan, you know, knowing that it's still going on today and that it has all these people, like, coming into it.

[01:02:40] How do you react to that? It's really... I mean, it's cool. Like, it's just really cool. Because you never know when you do something as an actor, like, what's gonna... What's gonna be forever? Like, it's gonna be... Just keep going. And even, like, the fact that it was popular for a bit was a blessing. It was like, oh, nice. And then, like... But, like, 30 years later, it doesn't even compute. I'm like, wow.

[01:03:09] Like, there must have been some... Like, there's some kind of magic. But I know the stories. I used to read the stories as a kid. And it's like... Yeah, it's horror, but it's for kids. And it's just enough. And there's a magic in Goosebumps. It's like... It's a perfect... Perfect series for a perfect... Like, the stories are just perfect. Like, so... Yeah. I understand why. But it's cool because, like I said, you never know. Like, you never know. I do some video games where, like... I'll do...

[01:03:40] Like, you know, two days on this video game as a character. And, like, it never goes anywhere. No one's ever heard of it. It's just into the void. And then you'll do another one that, like, wins all the indie awards. And, like, just blows up out of nowhere. And everyone loves it. And there's no way to tell when you're doing it. You're like, I don't... I think it was good because we did our best. But you never know how people are going to react to something. And how... I'm the most shocked at the... Like, how many times it's come back around. Like, it's, like, resilient. Like, crazy.

[01:04:10] It's like... You know, it came back with the movies. And it's coming back with the show. And there's fans that watch it again. And they're still watching the old one. That's what I'm most shocked about. That, like, it just keeps coming back. So, it... We did something, right? It's got to be... For sure. Long legs. You know? Very, very long legs. It's like... It's like we're talking earlier. How you said you did Brain Scan when it came out. But no one really cared about it when it came out. But now, all of a sudden, it's like... Every con Eddie goes to. Like, people ask him about it now.

[01:04:39] So, it's just weird how 30 years later, something can just blow up. That's another thing, too. It's like... Maybe something doesn't, like, hit its stride right in that moment. But then, like, years later, people are like... Wait, I actually really like that. And then it starts, like, growing a new light. You know? Just the cult classic sort of effect. Oh, yeah. 100%. There's several films that have just blown up that were just considered nothing at the time. You know? Hocus Pocus. How big that is now.

[01:05:08] And the cast doing all that stuff now. You know? When it first came out, it was a dud. And nobody talked about it for a long time. And supposedly, ironically enough, the drag community, I guess, is credited for basically bringing that back to life. Which I didn't know about. But that's got a huge following in the drag community, I suppose. But even the movie Trick or Treat, probably one of my favorite, if not my favorite Halloween film, couldn't get a theatrical release.

[01:05:37] So they released it on, like, an indie market, like, at the very last movie at a film festival. And it did so well that it kept carrying. And now it's huge. Well, I just watched the documentary. Everything has to find its own path. Well, I just watched the documentary. Sometimes it's called Not Just a Goof. It's for a goofy movie. And it just came out on Disney+. And it was about the production of that movie. And at the time, it was a critical and commercial failure.

[01:06:06] And then it just got this huge following behind it. And now people consider it, like, one of the Disney classics. Like, they're like, it's on par with what was coming out at the time. Like, Lion King and Aladdin. That's so weird. Yeah. Well, I remember when I did Brain Scan for the couple years after I would tell everybody. Because I was like, well, Eddie Furlong's in it, so it's a big deal. And I was like, yeah, I was in Brain Scan. And they were like, I don't know what that is. Like, nobody knew. Like, nobody cared.

[01:06:34] And then, like, now people care more than when it came out. Like, when in the first couple years. He says it's weird. Yeah. Do you guys like, it's my favorite cult classic that, like, I got obsessed with. But do you like Army of Darkness? Have you ever seen that? Oh, absolutely. Army of Darkness, yeah. I love that movie. I had the poster up on my wall. Like, that's the best movie ever. Like, Evil Dead 1 was kind of, like, trying to be serious. Evil Dead 2, they're making fun of themselves. But Army of Darkness was just out of this world.

[01:07:04] It was perfect. Army of Darkness stole from me. It's, like, easily my favorite one of the original Evil Dead films. Yeah. Now, I didn't much care for the reboot that happened. The first one. Not this one. Oh, Ash vs. Evil Dead? That one? No, they did a reboot without Bruce Campbell, actually. Oh. And it was okay. I mean, he had a cameo thing at the very end.

[01:07:31] It was just really just him with, like, a backlit shot. And he said groovy. And that was all he did. So, the best part of the film was the ending, technically, when he was there. I like that movie. But, no, then they did Evil Dead Rise, the most recent one. I thought that one was good. But nothing compares to what came before with Bruce Campbell's films. Army of Darkness is so funny. Army of Darkness was just untouchable, I feel, at this point. We had it with my friend and I in our 20s.

[01:08:01] He's like a boomstick. So, my friend and I, before we went out one night, we were, like, 22, maybe. And we had a drinking game. And we watched Army of Darkness. And we're, like, every time he gets hit in the face, you got to take a drink. And we made it, like, half an hour in and we're, like, I can't, no. Time out. We're done. You'll die of alcohol poisoning by the time the movie's over. Oh, my gosh.

[01:08:31] No, it's not a movie of Darkness. That's a terrible idea. Yeah. And, you know, it hurts my way of thinking about it. In terms of just the episode itself of Deep Trouble, like, I mean, have you gone back to watch it recently or since you did the episode? I see clips because sometimes Laura even will share clips and be like, like, look at us. Like, look at, you know, look at us babies. You know, like, we were little.

[01:08:58] And the mushroom cut, full 90s, like, mushroom cut with a split down the middle, down to here. Like, you all had that. We all had that. I feel like male leads in Goosebumps had that haircut. Like, and it all started with John Connor. Like, I feel like that's where it started and then just. Yep. And we had, like, straight hair, like, straight thin hair. Yeah, I don't know. So, I've watched it a few times and I've seen clips, but I haven't watched the full thing, like, in the last 10 years at least.

[01:09:25] Like, sat down and watched it, which is stupid because I should watch it. My son's 10. I should just watch it with him. But I think he'll just laugh at me the whole time. Well, that's kind of what goes with parenting, let me tell you. Because it's kind of like, I asked any of the parents that come on here, too, because I think I'm the only one with a kid who has watched Goosebumps. Like, because I raced her that way.

[01:09:52] She needed to learn about Goosebumps and other horror things. Yeah. But, you know, she knows I do this podcast and who I get to talk to every now and again, you know, like yourself and some others from the show or, you know, the new Disney Plus show. And she's like, oh, that's cool. You know, whatever. Yeah. I was like, oh, what? This was, like, blow my 10-year-old mind back in the day. It's like, come on!

[01:10:20] And it's so funny to listen to other people like Amos was on here just to put him out there because he was, like, in Billy Madison. And he's been in all these other films and stuff that we've all seen him. And he's like, yeah, my kids don't care. He's like, how can you not be the cool dad? You did this and this. He's like, yeah, no, they don't care. I was like, oh, that's insane. I was like, I feel the pain, though, because my kid's the same way.

[01:10:46] So, like, if you made a talk movie, then we'll talk. Well, my son actually just recently became a full-fledged, like, ACTRA member, which is a member of the Actors Union in Canada. So he did some dubbing for Netflix a little bit, and he did a car insurance commercial on the radio. So he got his credits, and now he's in. And I was so proud when he did it because I do a lot of voice work.

[01:11:13] When he did the insurance commercial, I was, like, in the booth with him, and I was just quiet. And I just watched him. And if the director – I asked, like, is it okay if I kind of help with the direction because I know how to tell him that? Like, only if you want. But I was so proud of him. I was like, he did it. They loved it. And I was like, yes! Like, he nailed it. And he took the direction without – like, a lot of kids would be intimidated. Or he was just, like – he's listening intently, and he was like, okay, yeah, cool, got it.

[01:11:43] I was like, okay. Just taking it in and doing what he's supposed to do. It was great. That's so cool. That's awesome. That's so cool. Now, I do have to bring up, because our audience loves when we talk about Are You Afraid of the Dark? Now, you know, we had mentioned that you were in not one but two episodes of Are You Afraid of the Dark? You did a Tale of the Forever game first. Then you did Goosebumps.

[01:12:10] And then you did Tale of the Silver Sight, the latter of which was, like, a huge deal. That was a three-parter episode. A three-parter. Yeah. And it was the only one that the cast of the Midnight Society was in the episodes. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And so, like, that was – They weren't just telling the story. They were in it. Because they were, like – yeah, it was always – they were just the framing device. And then all of a sudden, they, you know, they become the main characters in an episode. I remember I binged the whole series, and that was just like, whoa, holy shit. That's so cool.

[01:12:40] They were the second generation, right, of the Midnight Society in that one, I think? By that point, yeah. They did the first five seasons. Then they took a break. And then they came back for seasons six and seven, and they had a whole new Midnight Society. But for the Silverside episode, they brought back the actor for Gary. He was the only returning one. But his brother, Tucker, was on the show from the very beginning. He was just older by the time they did the new Midnight Society.

[01:13:10] So – Yeah. But you got to be in that episode and Tale of the Forever Game. What was it like to just kind of do those episodes and that show as a whole? Well, I was actually – I was actually in three, but it was not very known. I had the tiniest, tiniest part. There was one – the ghost, the kid ghost. I forget what it was called, the silver ghost. Yes, frozen ghost.

[01:13:35] So I wasn't the frozen ghost, but I was the double for the frozen ghost because at one point he duplicates. Like he's in the distance and he's there, and I was the double of the frozen ghost. Whoa. So it was like three. I got to do a little night shoot, and I was – I didn't have any lines, but I was – it was like my first – one of my first gigs, right? So I was just kind of – Yeah. That's so cool. Yeah, I didn't know that. That's awesome. But it was really cool.

[01:14:01] Like the Forever game, what I remember the most about that was when I fall into the ground and like into the quicksand, but they had like dug this hole, and then they had a rubber – like you could barely fit in it. You had to stretch the rubber to get in. So I would like literally get into this hole and then pop my head out, and then they would fill around with ground. So I was like fully in the ground. And those I have a couple of pictures because my mom took pictures. She's like, this is too cool.

[01:14:31] I'm like half in the ground in the middle of a trail. But yeah, so that one was cool. There was a lot of night shoots for that one. So that was the first time I started doing night shoots and understanding what that was, like having to stay up all night. But you get to set at 6 p.m., do your makeup, and you get all ready, and then wait for the sun to go down, and then start shooting for a full 12 hours or whatever.

[01:14:54] So I learned how to pace myself, and I really got close to the craft table because the craft table keeps you awake. Like, you just like pop another Oreo, pop another Smarties, just like eating. And I was – I think I was 10 or 11 maybe, and my mom was like, what are you doing? Stop eating all this. I'm like, yeah, but I'm tired. And I'm just like – You need to keep me awake. Yeah, I need to keep going. So that was really cool.

[01:15:24] And then the other one, I was a bit older by then because I was probably like 12 or 13 because I was in high school when I did that one. So like maybe grade 8, I think. So – and that one we shot in Montreal, and we shot it in – because I was one of the sewer people. So like they had done me all pale. And actually, the girl who played my sister, she's – shoot, I forget her name.

[01:15:50] But she was in like Avengers, and she was in – she played opposite Chris Evans in Captain America. She's – oh, I forget her name. Did she play the role of Peggy Carter, or did she play – I think so. Yeah, I think so. She's blonde. Like, goido? Vandercamp? Vandercamp?

[01:16:19] Vandercamp, I think, is her name? Natalie Dormer? Is that it? I'm pretty sure it's Vandercamp. We all got to research this. Yeah, we'll go. Yeah, we'll go. I'm like a designated Googler. Captain America. Yeah, Emily Vandercamp, I think, is her name. Emily Vandercamp. Yeah, Emily Vandercamp. Ah, there we go, there we go. Yeah. So she played my sister, and she was – Oh, okay.

[01:16:48] I could tell she was – like, she was incredible then, because we were supposed to be this really weird sewer family that had been living in the sewers for decades, or like, removed from society, and she was improvising a bunch of stuff on set. Like, she was like all like weird, and I was like in love with Alicia's character, and I was like trying to sit closer to her, and she's like, okay, like back off. And Emily – Katie? No, Emily Vandercamp. Yeah.

[01:17:14] So she just improvised this thing with tea, and she had like the sugar cubes, and in the scene, she's just sitting there, and she's all like eccentric, and she's putting like 18 sugar cubes while we're talking. And the director's like, yo, do that again. That is hilarious. Like, you look crazy. And she's just like – and then she's sipping it and tweaking out, and like – That's hilarious. Oh, jeez. That's so cool. I didn't know that she was – yeah, I looked it up.

[01:17:42] She was Sharon Carter in the Captain America movies. That's really, really cool. I didn't even know that. Yeah. Yeah. And we shot in an actual like abandoned tunnel in Montreal to make it look like a sewer, because it kind of was. And that, again, was also a night shoot. And with Alicia Cuthbert there, and I still act with some of the other – the father and the mother from that scene too. They're still Montreal actors, and they're still in the scene. And yeah, it was cool. It was a really cool experience.

[01:18:12] That's really cool. Yeah. Like you said, you just don't know who you're working with back then, you know? And then what happens later. That's just crazy. Yeah. Yeah. And I did a – I did an IMAX 3D one, Ultimate G's it was called. And he's a celebrity – I feel really dumb that I don't know his name, but it's just not coming off the top of my head. But he was – Ultimate G's. Okay, wait. Yeah, he was a kid and I was bullying him. Michael Cera.

[01:18:42] Michael Cera was in this little – Michael Cera? Yeah. And I was like bullying him. I pushed him to the ground. I'm like, get out of here, kid. And he's got his remote control car. And I remember like just being in the warmup van with him, like just chatting. And then like years later, I'm like, oh, this kid is like super famous. Oh my God. Like Superbad is like one of my favorite movies like ever. I think Eminem said it's his favorite movie. Yeah. Boop. Boop. Oh my gosh. That is –

[01:19:12] That is awesome. That's crazy, man. Michael Cera. Oh, I just think – okay, I'm just going to say it because I just think of him in the movie, this is the end and like I swear to God, like his role in that is like the greatest part in that whole movie. Yeah. It's a good movie, but his character is just ridiculous. Yeah. The golden era of those guys like Jay, Jay Parcell and them when they had like there

[01:19:35] was like Pineapple Express and then Superbad, Tropic Thunder, like all those movies back to back. They were so good. Tropic Thunder is so fun. I feel like they just can't make those thunders another level. Yeah. I mean, we're going to love that movie. You can't make those movies today though. Like that's the thing. Like I just feel like, yeah, we're not allowed those anymore. They were a testament to their time. Like do you think they'll ever do – well, they're doing a new scary movie there, right? Oh, they're doing another one? Yeah, for sure.

[01:20:05] I think so. Didn't they say they're going to be doing a scary movie six? Pretty sure. I think I heard something about that. Yeah. I mean, that's – And I'm like, can they make that now? It's like saying, oh, hey, we're going to make Married with Children again. Oh my gosh. Scary movie was really bad though. Scary movie had a lot – like now I'm getting flashbacks to all the scenes. I'm like, yeah, you can't – you can't do that. Those movies were – God, I can't believe those movies got released in the theaters. Oh, but like back then it was different though. Like, you know, like the times were different.

[01:20:34] So people found that stuff funny, but now it's just – I'm guessing how things have changed in a short amount of time. Yeah. Yeah. Changing times. I can think of three scenes off the top of my head that are not allowed to be done right now. Oh, me too. Like I'm just like – Like not even talk about it on this podcast. Like I – No, no, no, definitely not. We can just – I feel like the people listening to us right now could probably imagine what those scenes are though. If they're familiar with the scary movie, they probably know which ones we're talking about.

[01:21:04] Yeah. Oh man. Yeah. And I can imagine, you know, again, we always sort of consider Goosebumps and Are You Afraid of the Dark to be like sort of those like companion pieces to each other. I can imagine probably the environments on both shows were pretty similar. Yeah. And they were both Canadian – that's what's crazy. They were both Canadian shows shot in Canada. I think the only difference was Are You Afraid of the Dark was a Canadian show full through and through like 100%.

[01:21:30] And then it became – like they sold it to the American networks and it became popular. But I think Goosebumps from the beginning was both. Like it was an American production company and it was always going to be planned to be shown in the States and in Canada. But they just chose to shoot it in Toronto for whatever reason. So, and that's another thing I feel super lucky because I didn't have my O-1 visa. I didn't have my green card. I couldn't go and shoot a lot of the things that were shooting in the States.

[01:21:57] So, the fact that those two massive shows were done here and I was allowed to be in them and to audition for them and it did a lot for a lot of Canadian actors. So, super grateful for that fact. And same with Lassie. Lassie was the same. It was a Canadian show but it was a joint production. There was a little bit of American – so we went out to Animal Planet which was an American network and then it kind of made its way through other channels as well.

[01:22:26] But yeah, it's nice when you can shoot in both countries. Definitely, yeah. Yeah, it's still so awesome just to imagine, you know, Are You Afraid of the Dark, Goosebumps. Again, you never know what's going to become the big thing but those shows got super big and they're, you know, both of them are getting reboots now. You know, Are You Afraid of the Dark got a reboot for YouTube. And now Goosebumps getting reboots.

[01:22:53] So, people are coming back to the old stuff too alongside the new stuff. So, it's just… Are You Afraid of the Dark actually? Like, so, just another thing on that note was that because you said, you know, they had five seasons and they took a break then they did the six and seven. So, I was in the seven or like the last whatever but I… It was such a thing for me because Goosebumps… I was a fan of the books and then I got to be in the show. But this, I was also like…

[01:23:20] I watched every Are You Afraid of the Dark when I was a kid at my aunt's house. It was like a religion. It was like I would go over… My mom had a dance school so she would drop me off at my aunt's around the corner from the dance school. She would go work, run the classes and I would stay at my aunt's and watch Are You Afraid of the Dark? And like every night for a couple of years. And then when it stopped and then I got to be in it, it was… That was like a huge… Like, no, that's a show that I watched. Like, I watched it.

[01:23:49] I know the whole thing. I know the formula. So, it was a big, big deal for me to be able to be in it. Like, yeah. Yeah. Just to be a fan of something and then get to be a part of it. Some of those episodes though of Are You Afraid of the Dark were truly like terrifying. Like, there was some… People think it's scarier than Goosebumps. It wasn't like… I mean, Dead Man's Flo, Gasly Grinner, like they were creepy. But there was one in particular that really scared me and it was the vampire one, the midnight shift or something. Oh, yeah.

[01:24:19] The hospital. The vampire guy. That was like… That gave me nightmares because every time he came into the shot, he would like go up to the camera like real close. And it was just like… And I remember like just that gave me the worst nightmares. I remember I was watching it with my cousins in New Zealand. And anytime he came on and like we'd go up to the camera, we all like jump behind the couch. We were like absolutely terrified of that. So, that show was like… Like, Goosebumps was scary.

[01:24:47] I remember that show was just a whole new level of like… It felt like it was… It felt like it shouldn't be that scary for kids when I was watching it. Like, it shouldn't be this scary. Why is it… And the content wasn't like gory or anything. But you're right. It was the shots. It was the lighting. It was so dark and like… They got… They had some kind of magic there. Well, that's… That's why I feel like these franchises get so popular is because kids like… Kids like this horror stuff.

[01:25:16] Like, I feel like… You know, there are many parents who are like, you know, shouldn't watch that. It's too scary. You know, you're gonna have nightmares. Me personally, like… I loved these shows. Like, even if they scared me, I just could not take my eyes off them. And that's just… There's just something about that that makes them so popular is because kids are like… I really like this. I'm really interested in this. And it could be… You know, we always talk about gateway horror.

[01:25:40] It's a gateway into wanting to see more of the horror genre and horror movies… Stories, literature, folklore… Like, all those sorts of things. Yeah. You know… It got me into like… Critters was my first one that I really got into like an actual horror. Critters 1, 2, 3, 4… I don't even know if they made a 5, but I saw the first 4. And then… And then eventually, you know, like the Freddy's and the Screams and like that kind of stuff. But…

[01:26:09] Critters had a bit of that 90's magic because it was… Yeah, it was terrifying. But it was also tacky and like… Yeah. They shouldn't be scary, but they're terrifying. Like, what are these things, you know? Yeah. I said the thing. You know, like… It's kind of like the Gremlins too, because Gremlins is… Yeah. You know, has its scary moments, but it's also these little like…

[01:26:37] These little guys running around and, you know, singing 99 bottles of beer on the wall, all drunk in the bar, stuff like that. Yeah, watching Snow White. Yeah. I love the smart one. The smart one that just shoots the dumb one. Do you remember that one? He's giving an interview and he's like… Yeah, yeah, yeah. …respective. Yeah. He's… The first three ones actually scared me. The first one actually creeped me out as a kid. I was going to say, the first one was definitely scarier. In the house, when she's like hunting them, literally.

[01:27:06] The mom, I was like… This is truly scary. Oh my god, I didn't have a scene where you like shove one of them in the microwave and just like… I don't know. She killed so many of them though. I gave her so much. And that was CG. That was CG. That was cool. We'll see the second one was… I think I liked the second one more, but I think I like it more because I like the mutated gremlins, like the spider one and the bat and… The gargoyle? They had a gargoyle too, right? With the wings? Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

[01:27:35] So, it was a bat, but he ended up getting covered in cement and actually like… became a gargoyle. Yeah, yes. Okay, yeah, yeah. That's what it was. So cool. I love that so much. Yeah, he like sits up on the thing too. I thought that was so cool. Yeah. I always sound like the spider one. Yeah, the spider one was real… I think that was probably the scariest thing about number two. That or maybe the female gremlin. I can't remember her name right now. I think it's like Greta or something. Oh yeah, with the lipstick. Oh, oh.

[01:28:05] It's terrifying. Oh, dude. I mean, I have to like spiders living here, you know. I just… I have to be a fan of them. Yeah. Well, you don't have to be. I like spiders. Like I've grown to love them. Like, you know, but… Hey. Hey. You live with like… You live with literal monsters in Australia, right? There's like literal monsters everywhere.

[01:28:28] It was a photo that just went viral of a dingo eating a shark on a beach while two snakes were wrestling each other in the same… I saw that! The dingo was eating the shark? Like… Yeah. And two snakes are like doing this and I'm like… Look it up soon. That's what happens here. The crab. Yeah. It's funny because like… Bjorn will send us videos of… Not like his personal videos, but just videos of Australian people like a day in life in Australia.

[01:28:59] And one of it's like, you know… I don't know. What was the one you sent me? It was like a kangaroo going down the street. It was a kangaroo going down the street. It was one of the kangaroo like holding a dog like with its big… Oh, is this the one with the guy? Oh, yeah. Yeah. That too. Yeah. That dude just kind of over punched him. And that kangaroo just stood there staring and I was like… Bro. Because it's almost like you didn't expect… Because it had its arms around the dog, he could punch it.

[01:29:28] Like it was almost like… Wait, if I'm gonna hit it, I can do it now. Like quickly while he's holding my dog and then bang and then it just like let go. So it's almost like he sold it. He like… He caught back and like clocked it right… It was a good punch. Yeah. It was a good punch. But that kangaroo just stood there and kind of like… Puffed chest and he was like… What? What was that bro? Did you even work out? I don't know if he was hippie before. What just happened here?

[01:29:57] I think that was the first time that kangaroo ever got punched clearly because yeah, he was a little confused on what was happening. Oh, I… I'm always sending it in. Did you guys see the… I know it's off topic, but did you see the grizzly or the black bear that went into the guy's jacuzzi? Yes, but I wouldn't be surprised. He's up north in his cabin and this bear just gets on his deck and he's like, oh yeah, here comes the bear just doing his thing. And he gets into the jacuzzi and he really gets in it like…

[01:30:25] Oh, like gets himself nice and comfortable and he's like… What am I gonna do? Like I can't do anything. He's just getting warm. Just imagine… Imagine he like… The bear looks over at the guy and he's just like, hi neighbor. Beautiful day. That's not the first time that bear has done that. Probably not. That's crazy. But sometimes you do see like an animal like a bear or a dog and you go, there's a human like in there. Like that's a… Yeah, that's a reincarnated human or something.

[01:30:55] I wonder if you turn on the jets. If you turn on the jets, if it'll get out or if it'll just sit there and think… It'll just be like, ooh… Thanks man. Yeah, like the personalities, hey, like everything's got a personality like bears, but it doesn't matter what it is, you know? Like you think, you know… Like in Australia, like people hate spiders. Obviously we have some of the worst. So, you know, like… But there's a guy that goes around and he basically like free handles the most deadliest spiders. Like ones…

[01:31:21] Even one he handled to the point that if it bit him, there's no antivenom for it. So, he's like, if this bites me, I'll just die. Because he's like, there is no antivenom made for this particular spider. So, he's holding like a funnel, a Sydney funnel where there is antivenom. But because he's just being really calm, the spider's just like walking on him like a surface. Yeah. So, it's almost like… He's like, this thing could bite me at any moment. And like within five minutes, I'll be on the ground having a seizure. Like, you know? So, it's just…

[01:31:47] He was just trying to prove that like they're not as scary like as you make out. Like they're just trying to find their way in the world like anything. But because like he's just gently holding them or free handling, like they're actually just… I mean, yeah, the average person, Nick, I know you would. But like… No, thanks. I actually have one last question. I've held some pretty deadly ones. You know, not ones that… Yeah. I have one last question that actually is aquatic related since, you know, this aquatic episode.

[01:32:18] Is there anything in the water that personally scares you? Ah. Yes. So, I've swam with dolphins like three times. And I love dolphins. Like they're beautiful. I swam once… Once they were following our boat in Florida and I just jumped out… We just jumped out with them and played with a wild dolphin. And he just circled us and tickled our feet and came around and we fed it a little bit and it took off. And it was like… It was like a magical, beautiful… Yeah.

[01:32:47] And then another… A couple other times I went to like a place where the dolphins are trained, but it was… It's still outdoors. So, they're like in a lagoon. They come in, they get… They do tricks for food and then they go back out. But… So, the only time I've been like really afraid in the water was… I was in Hawaii and I was surfing. And I was having the time of my life. I was like the first time surfing. And… But you have to wait in line like to, you know… And then when you're the last one, then you get the wave.

[01:33:16] And then everybody waits and you get the wave and you… But when I was the last one, it started going through my head like… Holy shit, if there's a shark right now, it's me. I'm the last one. I'm the closest. I'm the furthest out. They're gonna… They're gonna take me and they don't… They like surfers because surfers look like wounded. And I just started like spiraling. And I'm like… Come on, get on the wave! So, like… I got on the wave because I was afraid of a shark. Kind of like the way you run up the stairs in the basement when like the lights are off and then you just psych yourself out. It was like that kind of feeling. Like, I gotta go right now. Go, go, go, go.

[01:33:46] No time to wait. Yeah. Hawaii especially. Yeah, you're in the water. That's not your element. That's not where you live or like… They know what that is. You know, I don't know. And there was another time in Hawaii where I ran into the water. And it was a very… Oahu, so it was very touristy. There was like thousands of people on the beach. And I just ran in and I was like, why is nobody swimming? It's beautiful today. And I literally, I just ran in, jumped in, did a couple of breast strokes.

[01:34:14] I turned around and everyone's just looking at me. And they're like, get out of the water! And so I'm like, what the… And then I see all these red flags on the beach and they're… So I get out and they're like, there's a jellyfish infestation. There's like thousands of jellyfish in the water right now. Oh my God. And I saw it on the news that night and I didn't get stung. Like I just… Maybe I happened to hit the spot that they weren't there, but there was hordes of jellyfish. So I got lucky. I got super, super lucky. Yeah.

[01:34:43] And I've been stung. Have you guys been stung by a jellyfish? Yeah. No, but I have a sister who has and it was terrible. It just gets worse. It's like a wasp, it hurts and then it hurts less. This just gets worse. It's like… It gets worse. It gets worse. It gets worse. It gets worse. Yeah. It's terrible. Like we got box jellyfish here and like they're pretty bad. And even when they're on the beach, they can still sting you. Like you just touch them, you step on them or whatever and they'll… Yeah. They'll still sting you. So it's like…

[01:35:13] Yeah. Like even if you see them on the beach, you're like, don't touch it. Just walk away from it. They're still stingy. Like it's pretty bad. Yeah. The ocean's scary. I constantly hear the question of like, what are you scared of more? Like space or the ocean? And I'm like, look, space is scary, but not only is the ocean just as mysterious, but like that's on our planet and like, you don't know what's working under the surface. It seems like they're always finding new fish and new sea creatures. Well, and you see how…

[01:35:43] Don't they find sperm whales where inside they have beaks of squids that would be like 200 feet long? I think so. Like don't they… Because they don't know, but the sperm whales go down and they battle these massive squids and they come back up, but you can't… And they're like enormous, but you've never seen them, but they exist. Like the… Because the beak of the squid that they find is… Would be equivalent to… Yeah. There's so much stuff we don't know in the ocean. The ocean's terrifying.

[01:36:11] Like my biggest fear is the SS Indianapolis. Like the story he tells in Jaws, like imagine being on a boat and then you're in the water and you're in the middle of wherever and the signal didn't go out. So they don't know where you are. That's my biggest fear is actually being in the middle of the ocean because you don't know what's lurking. You know, like, because you're above the water bobbing, right? I mean, I would actually be… I would feel more… I'd feel more safe if I had like a forever lasting like air thing and I was under the water so I can at least see what's going on.

[01:36:41] Yeah. Being above the water, you're like, this is horrifying. I hate this. At any moment, you could just have your legs taken out. Like that's it. Gone. Did you see… What was the story that they did a movie about a few years ago? Well, years ago, but it was the… Was it that the one you were talking about? Were they… It was like 700 soldiers that… Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like what, 100? It's based on Indianapolis and like only… Only like a… Out of like the 700… Yeah, like only…

[01:37:09] There was only a portion of them that survived. Most of them got eaten by sharks. They drank too much salt water so they went delirious. So yeah, some of them died from other causes, but yeah, there was a lot of shark attack. And they started noticing that when they would open their rations, the sharks would just come. So they had to stop opening… They had like cans of ham and whatever, but every time they would open them, the sharks would come and eat a couple of people. So they're like, we can't even eat our food that we have. Yeah. Like that's terrifying.

[01:37:36] The terrifying thing was apparently like in the night, you would all huddle together and hold on to each other. But then when they would fall asleep, someone would always sort of drift off, they said. Like, and the person that drifted off was the one that the sharks went for. So that's just… That's terrifying. Yeah, I love that. Like, that deep trouble. Like… Just had to say it. But yeah, that is truly terrifying to me. The middle of the ocean, I can't think of anything worse. Like, you know, that to me is… And at night.

[01:38:05] Imagine at night. Like… Night to moon. Oh yeah, no. No moon. It's bad during the day. It's bad during the day. Because I always see these diver videos of like them underwater and they're looking around. And you can't really make out so far, even during the daylight. You know, because it's just… It's dense. Like with the salt water and everything else. So there's only so much ahead you can see. But when something starts coming out of that darkness… Oh, geez. That was there the whole time.

[01:38:35] It's like, oh, hell no. No. All this massive ocean and you're right here. No. I'm good. Okay. George is still as terrifying as ever, man. That movie. Like… And the thing is, it's not even like sharks I would be super afraid of at that point. Um… You can technically get around them to an extent. I guess because they're sensitive on their nose. Um… But I guess if one grabs you, I guess you can punch it in the face too. Kind of like that kangaroo. Uh… You know.

[01:39:05] Yeah. But the bite could make you bleed out. So that's the scary part. Like how deep is the bite? You'll bleed out. The killer whales. Free Willy. That's the most scary thing in the ocean, man. Mm-hmm. If you ever watch… If you want to watch anything that's terrifying, watch the orcas, man. That's… Yeah. They're too smart. And they're too… They're too organized. And it's scary, scary stuff. Also… Also the… The squids.

[01:39:33] When they get big enough where they can wrap you… Have you ever seen some of those divers where they like… They let them wrap their arm, but then they just pull them down? Yeah. And they just go down. And like… You can't do anything about that. They just… And it's not like a… I don't know. Like a… A big cat or a gorilla. You… You know what it's like. It's got two arms. And this thing is just like wrapping itself around you like a snake, I guess. And it's just pulling you down. And you're done. Like, do you have to… Don't do it. It's terrifying. That's scary too. It's so scary.

[01:40:02] It's like that video that came up with the guy that was diving. And the… He… He dipped his head like that, but the great white was coming. And it opened its mouth to grab like his head, but he kinda like… Tilted his head down and it just sort of missed him. You seen that video? That was terrifying. I've seen shark flippers where they just like flip the shark over. Yeah. And they… And the shark just kinda gets in the cage. There's the guy in the cage in Mexico and the shark just swam straight into it. Oh, in the cage… I saw that one.

[01:40:32] I saw that one. What? That was crazy. And that dude came in and he's dead. I thought he was dead. Me too. I seriously thought… Oh, he's dead. He… That shark ate him while he was in there before he jumped out. Yeah. It's cause there was blood. No, that dude came right up back there. There was blood but it wasn't from him, it was from the shark. The shark injured itself and the blood was coming out of the shark. So when you saw that blood when it went in, you initially thought that he got him. Oh yeah, no. I thought he was dead. Yeah. So terrifying. So terrifying. That's scary. That's a terrible indeed.

[01:41:02] I can watch videos of like animal attacks or almost attacks or just animals behaving or hunting forever. I could watch that forever. Like there's one I always go back to, it's so funny. It says little girl at the zoo and there's a silverback gorilla, like a giant silverback and she just yawns and she goes like this. Like just like a little kid would do, right? Like the freaking silverback sees it and like that's a let's fight, right?

[01:41:30] And he jumps 14 feet in the air, like clears it and kicks the glass and the glass cracks and the parents are like, like, ahhh and everyone's screaming. And it's like, just because she like, she just did one of these. Like, you know, that's like, let's battle. That's let's fight. Right. To the gorilla. Oh yeah. That's crazy. Wow. I'm gonna have to look that one up. Cause I haven't seen that one.

[01:41:56] I especially want to see this like ninja kick that the gorilla does to the glass. He like, boom, he jumps straight up. He kicks the gorilla doing stunts. I wanna see Michael Cera. I wanna watch Jackie Chan movies, man. Those zookeepers need to quit doing that shit. The ocean definitely is a scary place. And who knows? Maybe, you know, maybe there will be, you know, mutant fish people that surface someday. You never know. They'll come out.

[01:42:26] We don't know. Well, that is gonna do it for tonight's episode of the Goosebumps crew podcast. I wanna give super special thanks to Todd Fennell for joining us tonight. Thank you so much for joining us. Thanks for having me guys. It was a blast. Honestly. Thank you. Absolutely. We're very, very pleasure to have you on here and talk some Goosebumps and, you know, movies in general. It's always an absolute blast. So thank you. And you're more than welcome to join us if we ever, ever the time may come.

[01:42:56] Oh, I'd love to try to get that. Like Laura and I on here. That'd be awesome. I'll try to make it happen. Cool. Yeah. Thank you so much again. And as always, you can follow Bjorn and Nick and Goosebumps and Dan and Sean respectively and their social media and their YouTubes. If you like today's episode, make sure you have a like and comment, subscribe to our YouTube channel, follow us on our audio platforms and social medias. All those things are in the description below. So check them out. We'll have another episode for you next week. But until then, this has been the Goosebumps crew podcast.

[01:43:25] And from all of us here, we want to wish you as always to take care, stay safe and have a very scary day. Dun dun dun dun dun dun. Boom. Yeah. Yeah.