The Silver Scream (ft. Josh Logan)

[00:00:01] Movies don't create psychos. Movies make psychos more creative. I want to play a game. Blue the whole circus away.

[00:00:59] Okay, guys, welcome back to The Goosebumps Crew podcast. Today we are doing a Tales to Give You Goosebumps episode with Josh Logan. He's a producer and a director and just an all-around great person. Done a lot of work on some fantastic films. And, Josh, thank you for being here. Yeah, thanks for having me. Nice to meet you guys. So, obviously, I'm joined by Nick and Bjorn, finally back from filming Night of the Living Dummy fan film.

[00:01:29] If you guys want to see that, it will be coming out in spring of 2027. Tentatively, right, Bjorn? Tentatively, spring? Yeah, it could be earlier than that. It could be earlier than that. If you guys, you know, we might just surprise you all. Just, you know, just drop it on YouTube casually and not say anything. Yeah, today we're going to talk to Josh about his work and what all he's done on different films. Like, he's done work on Texas Chainsaw Massacre.

[00:01:58] He's done work for Annabelle and Halloweentown, which is one of my personal favorites. You know, all things horror, this guy is going to know a lot about. So, yeah, let's get started. Josh, why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself and how you kind of got into doing what you do? Because you actually seem to be a jack-of-all-trades based on, from what I've gathered from IMDb, which is not always accurate, as we all know.

[00:02:25] But, you know, it's still a relatively good source. But, I mean, it's not always accurate. It's pretty accurate. It's pretty well captured my kind of schizophrenic film career pretty well. There's a lot of things that aren't on there that probably shouldn't be on there, and I'm glad about that because I've, I mean, I fell in love with movies very early. And I've literally never wanted to do anything but work in movies.

[00:02:53] I saw Star Wars when I was four years old. And before I even knew I needed a job in life, I knew I was like, that's what I want to do. And they're like, you're four. And I was like, I don't care. I'm doing that. What is that? And so it was like from that point, I was, you know, always making stuff. I was drawing pictures. I was very involved in the art side. You know, my age of awakening was like 1981 to 1985.

[00:03:21] So, you know, I like all of the adventure movies, all of the like action movies, all the horror movies that came out in that time period were really, really influential for me. So from the time that I started watching movies, I was like, how do I start making movies? And like, oh, this is camera thing. Okay, we'll start with the camera. And then you just sort of add from there. But, you know, growing up as a kid in Austin, Texas in the 1980s, there wasn't really a lot of resources. And I was obviously pretty young to get started.

[00:03:50] So I would kind of walk into places and I'd be like, this is the thing I want. And they'd be like, you're like 12. What are you doing here? But I just knew what I wanted to do. So, you know, I found like a group of friends and a friend's dad, like friend's dad had a video camera. So we'd like borrow that and make stuff. And we're learning how to make movies by going to the public library. Like it was the only resources we had. There's no internet. So, you know, we'd go to the library. We'd like, you know, we'd raid newsstands to try and find Starlogs or Fangorias

[00:04:20] or Cinefantastics or Cinefix. Oh, man, if you could find a Cinefix, that was the thing. One. You have one, yeah. Cinefix was the best. And sometimes you could find back issues. And so, you know, so we just sort of like made it all up. And I think that's one of the reasons my career overall has been so broad, has such a large spectrum because I learned how to make movies by doing everything. Like we all had to do everything because there was no one else to do those things.

[00:04:50] So, you know, we didn't know an editor. So we learned how to edit. We didn't know how to shoot. So we learned how to shoot. And, you know, all those things and kind of figuring out the resources, which really is the, I mean, at its basis, the core of independent filmmaking is, you know, you figure it out. And whatever it is that you need to figure out, you just, you know, you find resources, you put them together. And sometimes it's a chain of resources that you need to figure something out. But, you know, you just, you jump in and be creative and, you know, balance your money with your desires.

[00:05:20] And at the end of the day, you have a movie. So I learned how to do everything. And then as I got a little bit older, you know, in my early teens, I decided I really wanted to focus on special effects because I loved monsters and I love monster movies and horror movies. And, you know, Freddy Krueger was like, was my guy for sure in the 1980s. And so I really focused on makeup effects. But at the same time, like my, I think what was built into me as a core,

[00:05:49] as a filmmaker is still like thinking of that as a holistic process. And so even though I was focusing on the monsters and, you know, learning how to do that stuff, which was its own journey, you know, with Tom Savini's Grand Illusions and Bill Corso's stage makeup books. And like, you know, these were the only resources I had. Then, you know, as I think that I focused on makeup effects and monsters, but the whole time I really still wanted to be making movies.

[00:06:18] Like I wanted to make my own, I wanted to make my own monster movies and my own horror movies. And so, you know, as your career develops and you start doing more things, people start to require more specialty. And you require more specialty too because you need to get good at something. So you can learn the basics of how to do a bunch of stuff. But ultimately, if you want to get paid for it, you need to be good at it. And so I focused on makeup effects. And then that kind of led me to a variety of opportunities and ended up in Los Angeles in 1996.

[00:06:47] Thanks to some very, very generous people that helped me out a lot. And did makeup effects for like, I guess, five or six years. I guess a little bit longer than that, but it's probably about 10 years. I was working at kind of smaller shops. And then, you know, I did moonlighting at some of the bigger shops, but I didn't really like working at the bigger shops that much because, you know, it's like I had, when I was working at smaller shops, like with Screaming Mad George, who just recently passed on,

[00:07:15] was just one of my greatest mentors. Just an incredible, incredible artist. And I got to run his shop for a couple of years and, you know, work side by side with him and really learn like the art was so much more fun. And so, but it's like, you know, George and I are just coming up with stuff together, bouncing ideas off of. And then I'd call buddies of mine who were working at Stan Winston's and be like, yeah, I'm polishing dinosaur teeth. So I was like, I think the smaller shops seem like they're kind of more fun.

[00:07:46] So, but, you know, you go through a variety of things. But even when I was doing makeup effects, I was still, the whole time I was thinking about like making my own movies. But once you get, especially once you get into LA, people just sort of like put you in that box and they decide that you are a thing and they don't really see outside that box very well. There's, you know, 90%, maybe more of people that I would come across, you know, would know me as a makeup effects guy.

[00:08:14] I would say, you know, oh yeah, I'm, you know, shooting a short film this weekend. And they'd be like, but you're a makeup effects guy. Like, yeah, I'm also a filmmaker. Like that's, that's why I like, I got into this business to make movies. You know, I, I'm, I'm a filmmaker, but I, I, you know, I love making monsters. That's my job. But the, but, you know, I also just love making movies. So it's, it, it was, it was interesting as I developed. And as I continue to do more work,

[00:08:41] all the different directions that I would sort of push myself in were following, um, feelings that I would have them just like, I want to explore this. I want to understand this art form better, but it all really filters into, um, wanting to make my own films. And, uh, and you know, that's the hardest thing. And the single hardest thing to do that there is, is make your own movie. So, um, it's taken me some time, but I finally, finally swung around to that side of things. That's amazing. Yeah.

[00:09:10] That's, um, making your own movie. Yeah. I know how that feels trying to try to get it just to try to get the team around you, right? Like to get everyone that you need, you know, from all asks, you know, funding, where's it coming from? It's really difficult. Yeah. And building the team is like, everyone focuses on the money and like, really the, the team is way more important than the money because, you know, you can, if you have the right team, you can make a small amount of money, go an incredible distance.

[00:09:40] But if you don't have the right team, then it doesn't matter what your budget is. So, you know, you end up slowing down or getting problems. So it's like finding that, that core team of people, core team of creatives is the most important value of making a movie. 100% I agree with that. I think that's been proven a lot here lately based on some of the, uh, some of the recent, even blockbuster films that they've become. They didn't start that way, but you know, like the back rooms and, uh, you know,

[00:10:09] obsession and things like that. These are smaller films, even down to Markiplier's, the little indie film that he did. Yeah. Iron Lone. Sure. Based on the video game. Yeah. So, I mean, I mean, I think that says a lot though, you know, cause like it's, it's kind of the position you're in right now, uh, where you're talking about doing all the, you know, you want to be a filmmaker, you want to do this. It's, it's, you know, so it's, you have a bit more passion in it rather than someone

[00:10:37] who is just hired to be a director for this or hired to be something for this, because that's your, like you said, box for your one thing, uh, to where as those kinds of films, you're, you're literally everything. You have to wear every hat because you have to be able to take all those different departments now and kind of intermingle with one another to make sure everybody's on the same page rather than, Oh, that's what it is. Finding a team on the same page.

[00:11:07] Yes. 100%. That's what it is. Like finding people that share your passion for what you're doing or like, basically you're showing them your, your product that you want to make. Right. And if you can find a team that is equally as invested as you, like they're also a fan, let's say, you know, that I think is what makes it work. Cause I just found a group of people that are fans, you know, and it sounds like you just have found your core team that have, you know, people that want to make. That's exactly right.

[00:11:37] Yeah. I mean, when you're, when you're talking to people about, you know, you're making a goosebumps fan film, you can totally rely on people's passion for goosebumps to, to connect them to your project because they're going to see it in it. Like you've already got a guiding principle, you know, you've got a target that you're going for and you can engage people's passion for that and excitement for that. That has nothing to do with your project, really. Like you get external excitement that gets to sort of bleed onto, and then you get to benefit from it, which is awesome.

[00:12:07] I mean, that's a, that's an incredible way to build a team. And it just like, it ensures that you are going to be on the same page in a lot more ways than just building something from the ground up. So it's, that's awesome that you had that. I'm sure you found a really fun, powerful team to execute what it, and you know, and you, and you, you all knew what you were making, which is great. Like that's the, you, you, you have a center focus that, that is outside of all of you. And I think that really the, the, the best art gets created when you start with a focus

[00:12:37] that's outside of any one particular person. Like, you know, the, the movie itself becomes the thing you focus on. It's like not one person's vision. It's, it's finding a guiding principle outside of you that you can all look at and then bring your own special talent to help execute that vision. I mean, that's what, that's what I think is the most wonderful thing about making films is that it's, you, you find a team of people that, that have a passion for a project and

[00:13:04] then each of them bring their own special values to it that no one else could have brought to it. And then you sync that all together into one single piece of art that, that is so much better than any one of those people could have made on their own. Like that, that to me is what I think is filmmaking is the most powerful art form for me because of that. It's like, it's the collaboration and that like kind of external synergy that you build

[00:13:30] with other people that allow you to create something that is a singular vision, but is also the product of everyone working together to create it. Yeah. Yeah. When they, when they all come in and they see your vision and they can see it clearly they're like, yes, I want to be a part of this. I want to help out. So it sounds like you've got that, you know, like you've got the right people that went, yes, your vision is awesome. I want to help execute this and make this amazing. So lucky without this team.

[00:13:57] I mean, it was such an incredible team to make this movie and, and, and really I couldn't have done it anywhere other than Texas. I was in LA for 26 years and 15 of those years, I was trying to get my own movies made. And, you know, with like, it's the same story as, you know, pretty much everyone else that goes to Hollywood with dreams. It's like you end up helping everyone else make their movies, but you never really get to make your own. And then when you, and then when you finally decide like, no, I have to do this or I'm going to be a miserable person.

[00:14:24] Uh, I mean, LA is a town that is desperate to tell you, no, it wants to tell you no, uh, because it's got a system and it's got a system that has worked very well for a very long time. And all the doors that it slams in your face, uh, have been slammed in mine too. And for a reason, I mean, you know, their, their theory is that the best, if it really is as good as you say, it will rise to the top. And for the most part, they're right.

[00:14:50] Like it's, it's not, it's not a, um, I mean, it's, it's a system that really, I mean, honestly has worked for, you know, up until I think now, I think we're in a turning point in the film industry where, uh, we are going to be started that we as audience members, because you know, all of us are audience members first and filmmakers second. And, um, I think that there's going to be a big turning point in, in how films are produced,

[00:15:18] the kinds of films that are produced, the budgets that they're willing to support. Uh, and the studio system continues to just kind of hit against a rock that I think is not working anymore. And I think 2026 this year right now has been the result of people finally saying like, I don't want this anymore. Like you guys just keep handing us the same movies over and over again. And you're only doing that because the other movies worked well last time, not because you

[00:15:47] love movies and you made this movie because you love it. You're making a product. And I think that people are starting to really see through that. And so independent film is starting to become a lot more of a powerful voice, but Hollywood is being run by harvest Harvard business graduates and not by filmmakers. And so I think that, you know, coming up behind that, you're going to see a lot of independent people starting to say, you know what, I'm, I want to make, I want to make my thing outside

[00:16:12] this system because I want to bring this voice to the world and, you know, let them decide and not, not use that as a, as a, you know, giant box office as a filter anymore. Yeah. Yeah. So coming from the perspective, I graduated in 2022 from college and, um, I went to Missouri state university and, uh, studied film and TV production. What you're saying is exactly correct because what they're teaching us is like, don't rely

[00:16:42] on just going to LA and making it. They're like, make your movie. Don't make a Hollywood movie. Make your movie. Absolutely. They're like, that's how, that's how you get money. That's how you get paid. That's how you make the things that you love advice you could get. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And there's a lot of even actors now too, like just leaving Hollywood and doing independent films instead. Like they'd rather do something like they read a script and they go, Oh wow, this is amazing. Like, this is so different from anything.

[00:17:10] Well, cause like you said, they're doing the same thing over and over when they do an action movie, you know, they want to branch out and do a lot of more indie films because it's more rewarding. Some of these like scripts they get like, Oh wow, this is good. I want to do this. You know, like, so it's from both sides of the way. You have to ask yourself why you got into filmmaking to start with. Was it because you wanted to tell stories and you're passionate about telling stories and about finding new ways of expressing those stories or creating images?

[00:17:37] Or did you get into movies because you want to like make a lot of money? And, you know, at, at certain budget levels, those are the people you start meeting. You start meeting people that got into movies because they wanted to make a lot of money and they wanted to have, you know, their, their, they wanted to be shooting a movie in Venice, Italy and having, you know, their, their $10,000 a week apartment on the, on the, um, on the canal and, you know, and enjoy that lifestyle. And that's why they got into movies because you can do that in movies.

[00:18:05] And, um, you know, I just don't, I just don't really connect with that mentality. You know, I, I literally mortgage my house to pay for my movie because I, I needed to do that. Like, it's just that I had to make a feature. Like I had been working for too long and I was starting to get to a point where I had to throw a hail Mary and it was like, how do I make this work? And so I bailed out of Hollywood. I moved back to Texas and, uh, and,

[00:18:32] and in the hopes of finding a creative community that could support the kind of like big scale vision that I wanted to pull off, uh, and pull it off on passion and on, you know, goodwill and on all of us syncing up, like only doing it because we wanted to make something cool. Like that, that's why we did it. And, uh, you said the magic word, you said passion, you said the magic word.

[00:18:57] Yeah. That that's basically what it is. That's how you got your team. And, you know, you show how much passion you have and you'd be surprised to jump on board and help you, you know, like, yeah, yeah. You'd be real surprised. Especially in this, in a community like Austin, it's just like, it's just exploding with creativity and, you know, all the film community in Austin mostly works in commercials. And so it's not necessarily the most creatively fulfilling thing, but that's kind of, you know, that's the main bread

[00:19:25] and butter. So we built our production around the Austin schedule of most people shooting commercials, which, you know, be two or three days out of a week. And then we, so we decided to shoot long weekends. So we shot Friday to Monday because we could always get people to come out and help us on weekends. And then we didn't have to ask them to give up their, their, their high paying jobs because, you know, we paid everyone just, you know, we, we paid everyone the same. We paid, we paid a favored nation's rate. So it didn't matter if you're acting or if you were ripping,

[00:19:53] like everyone got paid the same day rate, um, which was, you know, just, just enough to make sure that people would show up because, you know, we, we're a super low budget movie, but we paid what we could, I mean, and we paid everyone the same. So we, we tried to keep it as fair as possible, but also fed three meals a day. Uh, we also like, so that catered meals so that no one ever had to think about food. If, if gas money was a problem, like I didn't want anyone, I didn't want it to

[00:20:17] cost anyone money to work on our movie. So we set up a system where that worked. And then we also, um, this is something I've really been wanting to get out there a little bit more. And I'm about to do an episode on our, on our, um, on Instagram about it, but we set up an earned equity system where every single person that works on the movie qualifies for a piece of the backend based on the number of days they work. So we're calling it earned equity filmmaking. And it means that it,

[00:20:43] because, you know, I can't pay you not only what you're worth for this day, uh, to work on the movie set, but I also can't pay you for the many years of experience that it took you to get to be as good as you are to be, to, to be here in the first place. I mean, what you're paying for when you're, when you're paying someone top dollar for their rate is you're paying for 25 years of experience doing this, meaning that they're going to give you the best possible thing that you've asked for. And, uh, I think that gets lost a lot when people just look at like, well, this is, you know,

[00:21:11] this is just a day rate, you know, we, we can't pay you any more than that. And it's like, well, then you're going to get someone who's not very experienced because, uh, you know, experienced people would, we all deserve to be paid for the many years that we've spent and sacrificed and blessed for, and, you know, gotten to a place where we're, where we're good enough to be doing what we're doing. So our earned equity program hopefully makes up for a little bit of that.

[00:21:34] So we took 35% of our producers net profits and put that into a cast and crew pool. And every single person, if you worked one day, if you worked a hundred days, everyone qualifies for a piece of that based on the number of days they worked. Um, because, you know, if we are to succeed, we want to succeed together. We built a family to built this movie. And if the movie makes its money back or, or does better than that, then it will be, you know, I can't wait to share that with the

[00:22:02] people that, that helped make it because it wouldn't exist without them. Uh, and we did that three years ago before anyone was really even talking about it. So I was really happy that the movies like obsession have kind of shown a spotlight on that system. And, you know, and I'm not going to, I'm not going to pass judgment on that production by any means. It sounds like they treated their people well and they paid what they owed. So, I mean, I've worked on plenty of movies where that was not the case. Uh, and you know, not getting paid well, not getting paid at all sometimes and

[00:22:30] not being treated well, uh, is way more common in the, you know, the hundred million dollar low budget movie idea. So it sounds like the people on obsession, like they, they kept their word. It was a, it was a harmonious production. They all had a good time making the movie. I mean, you can see that love in the movie itself. Um, but I think that shining a light on this system where, you know, the, the people that put the least amount of work into the movie are going to make the largest profit. And, you know, that that's part of the risk of investing, but it's also the

[00:22:58] focus that we all have of putting so much focus on money and not as much focus on the years of experience that it takes to make the thing that both cannot exist without the other. So we still need money to make movies and we still need experienced people to make movies. So to always pay the investors first before having the, that money go back to people that actually made the thing you're selling, uh, I think is the system that needs to be reevaluated. And I'm really glad

[00:23:24] people are talking about that now. Yep. Yep. Yeah, I agree with that a hundred percent. And I, I kind of wish like this mentality Hollywood has with a lot of this stuff would change and maybe it will, like you said, because of this new rise and, you know, um, I don't want to say just independent, but I mean, it pretty much is, but it's, it's really interesting that like,

[00:23:50] for instance, like, I don't know if you're familiar with, uh, you know, Papa meat or meat Canyon on YouTube, very, very popular channel. Um, but he's gotten to the point now where he, he makes a pretty good living off of YouTube where on me Canyon, his meat Canyon channel. He's actually started like almost like a little mini like, uh, show, uh, I guess you could say, uh, I don't want to call it

[00:24:17] that quite yet. I think they just have only had two episodes so far. Um, but it's very interesting to see what a passionate crew with, you know, a semi good budget can produce for people because, I mean, these are only 20, 30 minute episodes roughly, but they're phenomenal and they're just free to watch on YouTube. Oh, like you got a day to see it or anything. It's just free to watch on

[00:24:46] YouTube. And just because of, again, it's, it's, it's passion and he got a really good team behind him to do it. Um, he's hired a really good company called creature kid to do like all of his, uh, I, I don't want to say monsters, but they kind of are, uh, but like the props and the puppets and everything that are used in that. Uh, cause it's a very, almost like a real world comic book.

[00:25:14] If I'm going to put it in those terms and wow. I don't know. It's just something it's hard to describe, but it's very unique. What's it called? Something that you've never seen in Hollywood. Yeah. His channel is called meat Canyon. Meat Canyon. Yeah. Yeah. Like, like meat, like I have met a Canyon or meat, like a, like a steak. Like steak. Yeah. Okay. So meat Canyon. Okay. Got it.

[00:25:37] There there's a dark undertone there. Gotcha. Yeah. It is a very interesting one. And once you kind of like see if you ever watched any of this stuff, you kind of understand the kind of sense of humor and stuff that him and his friends and stuff bring to all this stuff and kind of the jokes that they make and kind of videos they make, but it wasn't really cause he started as an artist and he made

[00:26:01] like cartoons and stuff on YouTube, but they didn't really take off quite as well. Uh, except for one, which became very popular and kind of meme-ish based on, uh, Bugs Bunny and Elmer Fudd. But I think it got so popular to where actually Warner brothers stepped in and told him that it's not just whatsoever that he needs to like remove it, but the internet doesn't lose anything ever.

[00:26:24] So that'll never go anywhere. Yeah. Uh, it'll never go anywhere, but it was, uh, it was a very dark cartoon version, but very funny. Uh, I won't go into detail on that one here, but I'll check it out. But that just being said, I mean, like I said, it kind of goes back to the Markiplier and it goes to, you know, how many more filmmakers slash, cause even, uh, Curry Barker who did obsession, like,

[00:26:51] yeah, I, I didn't really know his name, but I remember seeing like shorts and stuff that he would make or comedic videos and things like that all the way up to this, but now he's going to be well known because of this movie. But yeah, I mean, it just definitely needs the culture needs to change a little bit, uh, in Hollywood because again, rehash stuff and stuff that we've seen time and

[00:27:16] time again, like how many more reinventions of the same product can we just keep puking out? Well, the problem is they're relying too much on, on metrics and statistics and they're, they're doing it by numbers and which is, you know, in a lot of ways is understandable when you're going to spend $300 million on a single product. Like that's a lot of money. So if you're

[00:27:45] going to do that, then you need to feel like you've got your information. You do do due diligence like you would with any investment on any, any, any product. You know, if I was spending $300 million opening a resort, I would do a ton of research to try and, you know, justify that kind of spend. But I think that where they, where they start to get lost is that a $300 million is just too much

[00:28:10] money to spend on a movie. Like just for, it doesn't matter what you're creating, that it's too much money. It's too big a risk because it, the audiences are fickle. And if you look at the date, at the actual data, which is that audiences are fickle, what it says is that you can't know how much money your movie is going to make. So you need to do it for a more, um, uh, a more conservative

[00:28:35] price in order to, to maximize your possibility of making a return. And, you know, I think they got too far deep into spending that much money on movies and then seeing, you know, they could turn your, they're 300 million into a billion or 2 billion or whatever. Um, you know, these box office counts are totally inaccurate because they, they make you believe that movies have either made too much more money than they actually have because the box office only reports what the ticket sales are,

[00:29:02] but the theaters take half that. So, you know, if you spend $300 million on a movie and it makes 600 million in the box office, that's just break, break even in ticket sales. But then, you know, the ancillary markets for selling movies are, are double or more what it is that they're spending on them. So, but then you've also got huge advertising costs, all that stuff goes into it. But anyway, this is getting boring, but the, but the, the basic point is that, that like, you know, the, the, when you rely too much on numbers, you start to believe you can predict the future and

[00:29:30] you can't audiences are fickle and what they respond to more than anything else is something unique. Like you've got to do something that is that is that they don't expect. You can't rely on them to tell you what they want because they will tell you something that they think they want, but what they really want is something they don't know they want. And everybody will tell you this. This is not like breaking ground information. You hear this all the time, but when you're spending $300 million

[00:29:57] on something like they, they want to feel like that spend is being justified. And so they use all these numbers to justify it. And they say, okay, all these factors are unrelated, but if we piece them all together into a pie, all these different success ratios from all these other movies, then obviously we're going to have an instant hit boom. And then you get super girl. Cause Hey, everyone wanted to see super girl masters. I literally thought about that movie the entire time you were

[00:30:22] talking. I was like, super girl. It was a lovely film, a lovely film, but I just don't, I can't even watch it because I, I was so disappointed with Superman one. And I know guys who are listening or watching this, we are like side tangent, like crazy, but if you've watched any of our goose bump stuff, you know, that's how we get here. It just happens, but this is all movie talk and that's what we're

[00:30:47] here for. So, you know, bear with it. I wouldn't spend that much money on a movie. I wouldn't be doing that. No. And you don't need to is the thing. Like you don't actually have to speak much. And if, if you start to trust your filmmakers and you know, don't let your, your, your business executives make all of the creative decisions, like let the business executives hire creatives and let creatives

[00:31:13] make creative decisions. And you're going to find a much more harmonious atmosphere and it may not be worth more money. You may not be able to eventually like perfect the perfect film formula that will always make a billion dollars. But you know, if you, if you rely on people that got into the business to create something creative and to make something out of passion, then you're going to wind up with way more obsessions and way more back rooms and, you know, and, and let those people just run. I mean,

[00:31:42] that's John Carpenter. Like that, that's what I was backed into John Carpenter, but like, that's what, um, uh, my God, the, uh, Corman Roger Corman did was he would hire brilliant filmmakers and let them make a movie. And so you end up with these guys that are able to experiment and make all of these movies, like not just Corman, but like the whole seventies and eighties experiment was all just like, let them bring these guys up, let them run and see what they can do. Because one of the reasons was

[00:32:11] because the cost of entry was so low. So like, you know, and, and I think that that's really something we need to start thinking about is, is developing more voices at a lower cost so that you can find out like, who's going to rise to the top. And that, you know, we got an, an incredible generation of filmmakers out of that experiment, um, that are now, you know, passing the torch on to other filmmakers. So I think, I think we're due for that kind of Renaissance in filmmaking now.

[00:32:36] Yeah. Yeah. And I think like the, the key thing too, is not every movie or not every indie movie is going to be an obsession or a backrooms, right? But right now, how many, how many Hollywood films have flopped in the last year compared to the indie ones that have done record numbers beyond what anybody would have thought? Yeah. You know? And I think that's a, that's a sign of the audience

[00:33:03] more than just the filmmaking is that the audience is ready for something different. Yeah. And they're, when you let them run with that, it's going to, yeah, it's, they're going to be able to make some good stuff out of it. Yeah. When I was hanging out at some of the conventions this summer, I was having a lot of these same kind of conversations with genre fans, um, and talking about independent movies and stuff. And they were just like, it's the middle of summer. Why aren't I at a movie theater? Like it's, it's summer. Like where are the summer movies? Okay. We got the

[00:33:31] Odyssey did great. Yeah. Spider-Man obviously blew the roof off, but outside those, what, what else is in theaters this summer? Paw Patrol. Like what I would like, what I want to go to the movie theater. I want to go to the movie theater and yet somehow there's nothing to see in the summer. Like what, what are we doing? I mean, it's like the wheels are coming off the wind every week.

[00:33:57] Almost it seemed in a movie theater. Yeah. And I can't ever, and I, I don't want to blame it on COVID, but I do feel since 2020, like movie theaters have like just went down and it's not just their fault. And it's a lot of it's because there's no good movies to just go see anymore. You know, it's funny. I just saw all eight Harry Potters in the theater because they brought back

[00:34:24] for the anniversary, right? And it was over two full days. I was in the theater at 10 in the morning and I got it out at like nine at night on the day one. And then the same pretty much on day two, there was not an empty seat. Like it was full and it was every theater across the country. I'm sure they did it overseas and they were like, well, why don't we just put Harry Potter back in theaters? And then they're doing the same thing with Terminator two for the 35th anniversary.

[00:34:49] I'm going to see that on Friday. And my theater is basically full that I got my ticket for. So I'm like, I mean, people just want to see the older movies that they love. That was so great. Like, I don't know. It's way cheaper to do that than there is to make, you know, a new point break, like release the old point break. You're going to, you're going to be, it'll cost you way less.

[00:35:15] And you're going to feel like no one cares about like you're, you don't get any name equity on point break. Like, you know, the 14 year olds, you want to put in those seats, don't care about the old movie, but if you re-release it, you have the same chances. And instead of spending $80 million on a new one, why don't you just like polish up the old one and send it out now? We're starting to see that. We're starting to see that a lot now, which I think is really cool. I actually just saw the first Harry Potter at a venue called

[00:35:41] Cosm that I'd never heard of before. That's like a mini sphere, like the Vegas sphere. Oh yeah, I've heard of that. That's a lot. That's why I've heard of it. Up and over you. And they do like, they do a lot of, you know, just generated graphics and stuff. They play the movie in kind of the center and a frame, and then they create the environment all the way around you for every scene. So like, you know, if you've got the owls that are like flying into frame here, then it starts flying out over here. And then by the time it lands in the movie,

[00:36:10] it's, it's flown in there. Uh, and so it's like, they did really super creative, cool stuff. It was really cool. Uh, and I know they just like the matrix was playing the same night. So they did one of those for the matrix. And I think that that's going to be starting to be like something like that, I think is really what's going to take off for theaters is like creating a more like experiential environment than just going in and watching them. I think that's going to start getting really huge.

[00:36:35] Like a full immersive experience. Yeah. Then not just like an IMAX immersive experience, but an actual immersive experience. Yeah. Like that's awesome. I must admit, it was pretty awesome. Just seeing the first Harry Potter in theaters again. I was like, I saw, I saw it in theaters. I was like, this was 25 years ago. Yeah. It's super cool. But people were like quoting the movie as it was going to,

[00:37:02] they were like yelling out the lines and stuff. And I was honestly just having a great time because I was like, wow. Like, and people dressed up to like, and people brought blankets and all their big bags of snacks. Cause we're like, we're going to be here all day. Like it was great. You know, you had your one ticket, you know, that got you through the weekend. It was just, it was amazing. So yeah, they should just do that for a lot of franchises,

[00:37:27] you know, like it really shows that like people do, they want to go to the theater. They want to have a group experience, like audiences want to do that. So theater is saying that no one wants to go to the movie theaters anymore because everyone's watching movies on their phone or they've got, you know, a brilliant home theater is like, you know, maybe that cuts a little bit of the business, but overall people, especially young people like generation Z or alpha, I think is the new one coming up. Like they love going to the theater. And so like, you know, it's, it's not about that.

[00:37:57] It's about that. There's not enough going to the theaters that people really want to watch. You know, if you've got to put six screens of, of Spider-Man up in order to fill your movie theater, then I mean, it's a content problem. It's not, it's not a, it's not a, like a problem with the audience is not wanting to go. Yeah. Like the rainy films, if they did like a whole day event of all

[00:38:20] three of them, I'd be in there. I have kind of a theory about the, and the people don't want to go to theaters. I truly believe that that's, that was a result of as soon as COVID ended and there wasn't a reason to really be on streaming that they were trying to make it make sense as to why,

[00:38:46] you know, why they would invest so much money into a streaming platform, you know what I'm saying? So it's like, they, they were kind of telling a lie. That was my, my conspiracy theory, if you will, is that it's not truthful in the slightest because anytime that there's a good movie that's out, there's, you know, every showtime's full. Yeah. So I don't buy, I don't buy it. I could get to see the Odyssey for like two weeks. Yeah. Like what, what's it like, what's going on?

[00:39:13] I don't know. This movie's at like 40 theaters in my town. How is, how is every seat filled? Yeah. I still got to see that one. That one, it's been on my list, but I just haven't got to it yet. I want to see the Odyssey. You gotta watch all these movies, man. Like you're missing out. What about, do you see Zootopia too? Or you still haven't seen that? I saw Zootopia too. Okay. That was great. I watched the horror ones and cause again, I'm like a huge horror. Well,

[00:39:43] I'm just a big movie buff, but I love horror movies. Obviously I'll go see those. Uh, but they're really, again, beyond Spider-Man recently, like we just talked about, there really hasn't been anything else since I've just been like, yeah, no, I want to take my time and my money and go to a movie theater to see. There really hasn't been much. And everyone's talking about, I mean, I was, I mean, if they do bring something back, like usually around Halloween, they'll bring the movie trick or treat,

[00:40:10] not trick or treat with Ozzy Osbourne, but trick or treat, uh, the Michael Doherty film. I don't think so. It's, oh, you should. Oh, it's fantastic. It's an anthology horror movie, which makes it even better. Okay. Yeah. I haven't seen it, but I do know about it. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, you definitely should see it. Like, again, that's a movie that didn't, it didn't find its legs until fan film festivals. Cause this was before Michael Doherty was like

[00:40:36] kind of bigger, you know, when he started doing like X-Men and now he's doing Godzilla and all this other stuff, but he did this film and it didn't get picked up anywhere. It went through fan film festivals and it wasn't until that when people realized this is awesome. And then it kind of started picking up from a cult classic to actually going, being released like as a DVD,

[00:41:01] Blu-ray and then spirit Halloween. And now it's just huge. Um, so it found its feet eventually. It was just one of those films like that, but they'll bring it like they just brought it to the theaters for the first time ever. Like I think five years ago. So of course I was all about that. And I think they've brought it back every Halloween season for a showing since then, which is really cool. And I think that's really great. And, you know, and then they really should do that with older

[00:41:31] films too. Cause like, for instance, Ghostbusters, I was too young to go see Ghostbusters in theaters, uh, when it originally came out, but I got to see it in theaters for the first time when they released it for the anniversary. I was like, this is phenomenal. I was like, why have they not done this for other films? Yeah. I think we're, yeah, they're, they're seeing some money in it and it's such a low buy-in now. I mean, they don't have to, and with DCP delivery,

[00:41:59] like it's, it's digital delivery of everything. So like all that, they got to up-res it, maybe recolor, correct it, give it a little 4k polish and then send it back out again. But it's, you know, it's such a minimal cost. Oh yeah. Compared to what they're going to get back in it again. Uh, after all these years, not like it's not a big enough IP for, for anything, you know, let's just make some more money on this. And it goes down to even down. I just saw today where Tom Cruise,

[00:42:27] uh, is doing a new days of thunder. And that's kind of the thing too. That's kind of the thing too. With Hollywood. It's like waiting for, yes. Uh, no, don't get me wrong. He proved me wrong with, uh, Maverick. That was actually a great film. It was great. Yeah. But I mean, we, we, we actually had been waiting for a Top Gun too, but I was going to say, but yeah, there's certain things that we are

[00:42:54] waiting for. Yeah. You know, like there are certain things we are actually waiting for that we want to see, you know, like, yes. And then there's, yeah, something like, there are exceptions to the rule. I had not been waiting for masters of the year, but no, but I forgot all about days of thunder. I'm not going to lie. And then I see that and I'm like, Oh, that's okay. To, to be fair, anybody out there who likes days of thunder and was really wanting another one, here you go.

[00:43:23] That's great. Yeah. You know, but it just shows me, it's like, it's like, I was like, we're, I don't know. I was, it's just one of those things. Like they just keep beating the IPs to death because they just can't think of anything new. And don't get me wrong. It's not easy to come up with a new concept and a new idea. They can, they just don't want to invest in it. That's the problem. There's no shortage of ideas. I mean, every, literally every, every person that lives in Los

[00:43:52] Angeles that has ever connected to the film industry has a script they're ready to go out with. I mean, and that doesn't mean that there's quality stuff there. It's probably, I mean, most screenplays by and large are terrible, but there's plenty of new ideas and plenty of new voices and plenty of new filmmakers. It's just that the, the people that are controlling the money want to invest in something they can depend on as, as any investor. And, and if they want to invest

[00:44:18] that money in something that's dependable, they should not invest it in films. Films are not a good way to make your money back, but they keep trying to turn it into something that is. And it's just, historically has never been that. No, it's always been a good one. They found their audience, right? The Room. That found its audience and has made money now. Yeah. Troll 2's made money. Definitely. These films make money, you know, they find their audiences and they do these screenings.

[00:44:43] I've been watching all of them lately. Troll 2 is amazing. As we're getting near the end of the time, I know we kind of sidetracked again, guys. I'm really sorry. I probably had a hand in that too, so I apologize. Where do we start? That's the thing with this podcast is we are very free flowing. Like we, we really like to just talk like it's a group of

[00:45:13] friends talking about stuff and yeah, that's makes it much easier. And I feel like a lot better for a lot of listeners too, because they can kind of feel like, Oh yeah, no, I totally agree with that or whatever. And they kind of get in on it too. So that being said, um, I, I just want to stay on topic of something else, just because, uh, we do have a guest here and I do want to talk about a couple of your works here because they are pretty, pretty significant for what the horror community would

[00:45:42] consider significant. Um, and I'd also want to talk about your film, the relic, uh, before we go. So I don't, I know, I think we, he's kind of hinted at like his film and when we did my film, but I don't think we ever actually said what the name was. It is the relic. So again, we get sidetracked with a lot of stuff, but it is a relic. Uh, and I think it's the relic, uh, dragon,

[00:46:08] but is it, so is that the second one? The relic dragon is the title of the feature. The relic was the title of the short film that I made that did really well on the film fest circuit. And, uh, that's what we're launching off of. So that's sort of what, what was our like flagship, uh, production to, uh, as kind of a proof of concept towards making feature films, but also turning it into a franchise. So it's the, the relic universe are stories that can exist inside the

[00:46:35] mythology of the relic universe, which is very much based in real world history and mythology. Uh, and then, you know, filling in the, the, the, where history and mythology meet, you always end up with little gaps and we fill those gaps with monsters. So all of the stories from the relic universe sort of fit into that same paradigm. And this one is the relic dragon, because, uh, it's based in a Viking mythology, um, the, a Viking myth from the sagas about, uh, a dragon that ported gold. So that's what we, that's what we used as kind of the core

[00:47:04] concept. So this is a, this is the first in what will hopefully be a series of features from the relic universe. And so it's the relic dragon. Awesome. So I really liked the fact that building a universe, it's not a, um, it's not like just a short and a, you know, one-off because I did, you know, again, IMDb can always be wrong, but I did see where, you know, relic said short and it was 2020. So I was like, I was like, Oh man, I was like, I don't know.

[00:47:31] Like I didn't really catch that one, but I do remember seeing dragon and that one kind of like posted more out throughout. So now it makes more sense because the original was just a short kind of like a launching pad. So exactly. Very cool though. But I mean, the fact that, uh, you want to build that into something more and I really hope it catches on. Uh, so is there a place that like people go check that out or is it just still kind of like on a, like a fan film circuit? Like, yeah, the, the, the movie were about, um,

[00:48:00] I guess we're about a month and a half away from, from finishing it because we just got our film festival premiere at film quest in Provo, Utah, which we are extremely excited about. It's my favorite film festival on planet earth. I love it. And so the fact we get to premiere there is, is just like, I'm just over the moon, but it does mean we have to finish the movie, uh, in time for that. So movie will be done in about six weeks. Uh, we've got our festival premiere, which will be at the end of October. We don't know the exact date yet.

[00:48:27] Um, but it'll be the end of October. And then we're looking at a few other film festivals, hopefully by sometime this year, and then hopefully settling some kind of distribution by, by early next year. Um, we're not quite sure exactly how we're going to distribute it yet. Um, the, the, you know, the independent films are in the worst market that it's been in essentially in my generation. And so we're considering a lot of different possible opportunities. I mean, the, the reality is that it's never been more possible for a filmmaker

[00:48:56] to bring a movie directly to its audience. And we made this movie for a genre audience. Like it, it is a dark folklore adventure. Like, you know, it is a treasure hunt with monsters and we really want, uh, people to have a good time, uh, watching it and to be intrigued by the, the real world history and mythology that it weaves together. And, um, so it, it just kind of depends on the, on the kind of deal that we come up with, because there's, there's a lot of people that are experimenting with a lot of different ways of bringing movies out to audiences and

[00:49:26] we're going to experiment. But, um, if you, uh, if you go to, uh, the, the relic universe.com, that's our website, you can sign up for our newsletter and that will keep you up to date with when and where you can see the movie and the, you know, all of the stuff that goes around. And then our Instagram has kind of been our love child. So Instagram is at the relic universe and we've been doing tons of behind the scenes content and like storyboard comparisons. And, um, I've been doing kind of a series on, on building it from the ground up, uh, that will

[00:49:52] include, uh, uh, stuff about our earned equity program and just kind of what sets us apart. Um, and so it's been, it's been really fun to, to keep the Instagram going and to see people respond to it. So those are the best ways to, to follow what we're doing. Awesome. Awesome. And we'll make sure like, Hey, no, put the links down in the description below for everybody who wants to go check those out. Thank you. And, uh, yeah. So definitely look into it. It sounds really awesome, especially dark full floor. I love

[00:50:20] dark full floor. So right up my alley. Um, but to talk about something, I'm sure a lot of people, uh, would love to hear about, and I'm sure you've talked to death about on anything else you've ever been on would be Halloween town, but we'd be remiss if we didn't talk about it here. Cause our main channel is goosebumps. This is just our little side segment of horror, but, uh,

[00:50:45] yeah, let's talk about Halloween town. I'm, I'm, I'm, you know, I've kind of, I've rediscovered a love for Halloween town. And so I'm, I'm more than happy to talk about it. I really enjoy it. It's nice to be able to talk about it because, you know, we shot it so long ago and when you're a makeup effects guy, you just kind of go from job to job. And I mean, that was a great job. We got to create so many different characters. It was just like so many different sculptures and so many different ideas. And we did everything from just like simple pull over masks to

[00:51:13] full blown prosthetics. And, uh, and then the animatronic character, Benny that I, that I built. And so it was like so many, there was just so much creativity that got to go into it. And then, you know, you do the job and the job finishes. And then, you know, you hear at some point the movie came out, it was up on Disney channels, a little young for me. So I didn't really, you know, I, I, I know I watched it at some point, but you know, it wasn't, it wasn't something I was tracking. Um, but I, you know, I'm immensely proud of the work that I did, but, um, but you know,

[00:51:41] then, then time passes and then 25 years pass. And then like, I only recently found out a couple of years ago that people are still talking about this movie. And like, it was a huge influence to a lot of young kids that watched this movie in 1998. And now they're all, you know, 25, 30 years old and they're all, you know, showing Halloween town to their kids and they watch it every Halloween. And so once I sort of started to understand what was going on and talking with

[00:52:07] people about it, it's been so much fun because you realize like how much of an impact that a movie like that had on, you know, on, on your people on, you know, I'm a genre fan. I'm like, this is my world. And to find out that that movie has been like a gateway, a bridge into, um, uh, uh, you know, into further, further into horror. But also one of my favorite things about it is that the,

[00:52:31] the message of Halloween town is really more about, uh, just because something looks scary doesn't mean it's, it wants to kill you. It doesn't, it doesn't mean it's evil and, you know, don't judge a book by its cover and that, you know, that there's things out there that you don't understand that are just going about their business, you know, loving their neighbors like you do. And just because they look scary doesn't mean that they're mean. And, um, and I, I just think that's such a wonderful message. And, you know, when we're walking around with the specter costume,

[00:53:01] when we do walk arounds at these conventions, it's been twice now that a little girl, like a four-year-old girl in some cool costume that her mom made walked right up to this, like eight foot tall, like, you know, grim reaper character with horns that raise it up 10 feet tall. And it looks down at her through like a hooded black hole. And she just looks up and like hands a little toy. Like

[00:53:27] she wants to give you something. Mom would say, like, she wants to give you something. And so like this little girl that should, you know, be, be running, screaming from this terrified character wants to be friends. Like that, that to me is just one of the most beautiful horror movies I've ever seen. Exactly. Yeah. Sometimes you don't want to be friends, but, but it's like the level of understanding of like the designation between real and not real, uh, I think is really, is really good

[00:53:56] for society. And I think there's, there's just some wonderful beauty that's come out of the Halloween town and goosebumps and the kind of light horror ideas that, that make it accessible. And, um, you know, I just think it's, it's really beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. Halloween town has had a huge impact on so many people, as you said, uh, it is still super popular today. It's still in the talks of things like, you know, like you said, goosebumps

[00:54:20] or hocus pocus or things of that nature, you know, it is up there. Uh, and it's on a lot of people's watch lists or through Halloween. So it's almost tradition at this point for some people to watch that, if not actual tradition for people. So, I mean, it, it makes an actual impact and it's kind of crazy. And we talked about it a little bit ago prior to the podcast starting, but, uh,

[00:54:46] actually out in Oregon, they do Halloween town and it is quite impressive. Uh, if nobody knows this yet, go look up a YouTube video on it to the spirit. It's quite amazing. It's called the spirit of Halloween town. Uh, they do a phenomenal job. They even have the giant pumpkin, uh, sitting out there in the middle of like the courtyard or, or whatever that little, uh, common area is, but, uh, it's quite

[00:55:14] impressive what they do in that town. And it does look exactly like Halloween town. So the only thing missing is Benny, which you did say, uh, you did have a hand in, if you will. Yeah, I, I did. Yeah. I, I designed and built and performed Benny. That's awesome. Sorry for the dad pun of hand in,

[00:55:38] cause you're puppeteering. I'm dad. So it comes with a territory. There is, you are the dad in this group. You are dad. Well, I am. Yes. I'm the old man in this group too. So, Hey, we, uh, I'm catching up. I'm 31 like soon. I'm never, sort of. You can't say you catch up. No one, no. You still

[00:56:00] got nine years, man. Before you hit that four. Oh. And I'm like, no, I'm, um, come on. It's all right, Nick. But, uh, yeah, we, uh, we love you, dad. We love you, dad. I'm apparently dad to these guys too, not just to my own child. Apparently these are my children as well. Uh, we are your kids. Well, you're both grounded. Give me your money. You know, when you're good at something, you might as

[00:56:29] well lean in. Honestly. So, I mean, with Halloween town though, I mean, like Benny was, became a very popular character for a lot of Halloween town fans, uh, kind of unexpectedly in my eyes. Cause like, I remember watching the film and I was like, Oh, that's a really cool character, you know, but there's a lot of really cool characters in Halloween town, especially as someone who grew up with horror

[00:56:53] and the love of Halloween itself. Like it is legit my lifestyle. Like it is my life. Uh, so Halloween town, I loved it. Um, I always wanted to live in Halloween town. So it was like, why couldn't we have one of those? Um, with that, I mean, like, did you expect Benny to take off kind of like he did, or was this more of like a surprise to you as it came around to it? Total surprise. I mean, it was,

[00:57:19] uh, I, I mean the movie really hitting as hard as it did was a total surprise. I mean, I knew it was going to be a good movie and I knew that it was going to appeal to children, but, um, you know, in terms of like it, it having this kind of lasting power, no, I had, I mean, I thought, I thought it was a great idea. I thought it was a solid movie and, but I had no idea that it would be as explosive as it was, you know, you're everything you work on, you sort of hope is going to explode

[00:57:45] in some way or another. And, you know, almost nothing does, but I'm really glad that this has been one of those that have endured. Yeah. And it definitely has, um, you know, was there ever any time like you can recall and set like something funny happened or did you get to keep anything from them set, you know? No, I got to keep absolutely nothing. Uh, Disney owns everything we made and it

[00:58:10] is rotting in a box somewhere. I'm sure. Uh, when, when Halloween town two came up, they wanted to bring Benny back and, uh, they shipped me the box that Benny was in. Uh, and you know, foam latex breaks down over time as his face was made of foam latex and, uh, they, they didn't want to pay to make a new one. So I had to sort of resuscitate it the best I could, but you know, the, the phone had gotten really brittle. And so we were, I mean, we were able to get it up to shootable state, but it was

[00:58:40] really like, it was, it was difficult to get just the right angles to make sure that, you know, it still looked like it was, it was working well. So it was, uh, and then all that stuff got put into Disney boxes and shipped off into a Raiders of the Lost Ark style warehouse somewhere. And so I'm sure that's where all that stuff is now. Uh, so no, I didn't get to keep anything. Um, I, I, I think we may,

[00:59:05] there may still be a mold or two that exists from Halloween town. Um, yeah, I don't, I don't know what happened to anything, unfortunately, but, um, but good. I mean, I don't really remember any like good funny stories. Um, at least specifically off the top of my head. I mean, it was a long time ago. Um, but I know it was a very harmonious set and it was, you know, people were, were very happy to be

[00:59:31] working on the movie for the most part. I think the production designer was a little stressed because he had to build an entire town. Uh, but, uh, but overall they'd have a, had a good time. And, you know, I think that love shows through in the movie. It a hundred percent. Yeah. I agree. Yeah. A hundred percent. Yeah. That's the funny thing about foam latex. Uh, if you don't take care of it, it seems to break down pretty quick. It breaks down whether you take care of it or not. And it has a shelf life. Oh, it definitely will. Um, like goosebumps is a prime

[01:00:01] example because that's what, you know, we all love on this podcast, but you know, that's what Ron Stefanik from, you know, his studio who did all the goosebumps stuff, they used foam latex for like the haunted mask. Not many have survived. I think out of the seven that they made, I think there's only three that I know about and one went for auction and it was sat in a windowsill just getting

[01:00:30] hit by the sun for, I don't know how many years. So it shrank and got really hard on the mannequin head and it's just brittle and falling apart. Oh yeah. Um, the sun breaks it down. It's rough, but then Catherine long, uh, who played Carly Beth in that episode, she revealed and now has her version, her mask that she was given at, uh, wrap up for auction at prop store right now.

[01:00:53] And it looks phenomenal for how old it is. So it, a lot of it depends on how well you take care of it. And that's why I'm kind of, well, I was kind of wondering, I was like, did you get to keep anything? But hearing that like Benny's face was foam latex, my first thought went to the haunted mask probably how, you know, now it just looks like a, a meth addict is, you know, his tooth are all like missing and he's, you know, he looks rough. Like, you know, life after goosebumps

[01:01:20] didn't sit well with the haunted mask, you know, it was sad. So Benny probably, uh, rotting in a box somewhere, unfortunately, you know, I wish they would put things in like that in a museum and stuff, but because it's not like say a Batmobile or something, you know, like Warner brothers, you know, it's not a car that they spent probably almost a million dollars making. Um, it just probably,

[01:01:44] yeah. Like most things, like you said, you know, being handled by top men. So with that said, guys, uh, we're going to wrap it up here. Unfortunately, Josh does have other, uh, things to do today besides hang out with us. He's got another podcast to hang out with. They're not as cool as that stuff. I don't even know who it is. But we're going to let him go. This is the best podcast

[01:02:12] for sure. You heard it here. You heard it here. I do appreciate you coming on here. Big thanks to our buddy, Jesse Hobson, uh, over at CineDump who set this up for us and was kind of our middleman. So big thanks to him. Uh, you know, he's always, he's a friend of ours and from the podcast. So a big shout out to you, Jesse and, uh, from Shaw and Hayden Graham and Iron Brew boys, we want to say,

[01:02:42] yeah, I agree. I didn't do it. It's not just us do that. No. You have to try it. Has anyone tried it yet? I don't know what it is. It's a soda that he's obsessed with. It's basically the only country in the world where Coke isn't the biggest selling

[01:03:04] soda in Scotland. It is their biggest selling soda is Iron Brew out at it beats Coke by a landslide. So you got to try it. You got to try it. Yeah. I had a big conversation with a guy in a food van at the place that I work about it. And he's a Scottish guy. He's like, did you know that it is the biggest selling? And I'm like, yes, I know it is. I've researched it and I like it. It's,

[01:03:28] it tastes really good. Wow. It's a crunchy flavor. Yes, I know. Do you know what my zoom handle is? It's Iron Brew boys. So I am. And you'll start immediately. Apparently when you drink it, you start. I knew where this was going to go when I said it, but I did it anyway. So I'm very sorry to everyone. It is available there because Avery took a video for me and sent it to me and he went,

[01:03:56] I am. So he found it somewhere. I don't know where Avery found it at. Well, maybe I have to message you, you will start to speak like that until the effects wore off. Of course, you know, good night everybody from the Iron Brew boy. From all of us here from, I'm not even going to say the, the, the name anymore. From all of us here with the Goosebumps crew and our, uh, I know if we get a

[01:04:24] sponsorship, I will say it 20,000 times an episode. Can you imagine if I did? From all of us here, we want to remind you all to take care, stay safe and have a very scary.