Too Scary For Kids? (ft. 90sKidsThrowbacks)

[00:00:02] The most thrilling, spikingly series ever! From the pages of R.L. Stine's best-selling books, and the screens go on forever and ever! We now return to Goosebumps!

[00:01:06] Greetings Goosebumps fans, young and old, big and small, living dead and undead, welcome back to the Goosebumps Crew Podcast. As always, I am your host, Isaiah Vargas, I'm joined by my good buddies, Bjorn Palanek and Nick Shaw. We are the Goosebumps Crew, and we're back to, as always, talk some Goosebumps. If this is your first time joining us here on the Goosebumps Crew Podcast, I once sincerely welcome you all. If you are or have ever been a fan of the popular Goosebumps series of books, or the Monster franchise those books spawned, I have a feeling this podcast is going to be right up your alley.

[00:01:32] As I always say, me, Bjorn and Nick are some of the biggest Goosebumps nerds on the entire planet. We can talk about Goosebumps for hours on end, and that is exactly what we do here on this podcast. Every week we have a brand new episode talking about everything Goosebumps, whether it be the books, TV shows, movies, video games, merchandise, whatever it is. If it has Goosebumps in the name, we're going to talk about it so much that you are going to be sick of the word Goosebumps by the time we're done talking about it. So, with all that said, if you end up liking today's episode, make sure you have a like and comment if you're watching us on YouTube. Subscribe to our YouTube channel.

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[00:02:31] on their social medias and their YouTubes. All those links are in the description below, so check them out. Join the Goosebumps crew today. Become a crew member. We appreciate you in advance for your support. Also want to welcome back our very good friend, Mr. Tyra Young, 90s Kid Throwbacks. Very good friend of ours. Tyra, great to have you back. What's up, man? Thanks. Yep, not much, man. We're glad to have you. And this week on the podcast, we are talking about something that's truly terrifying, and that's controversy. Ah!

[00:03:00] Everybody loves controversy. Controversy is rampant in our very society, and Goosebumps, unfortunately, was no exception. Now, as you guys have known if you've watched or listened to the podcast before, we did an episode talking about the Lost Goosebumps books, but more specifically to this topic, R.L. Stine's fallout was Scholastic.

[00:03:24] So basically, there was a period in the late 90s where R.L. Stine was having a fallout with the company Scholastic. There was a big legal battle between Scholastic and Parachute Press over the rights of Goosebumps, plus accusations of ghostwriters. This whole thing, we talked more about it in that episode. But there was another thing going on around that time, and, you know, parents, we love our parents, right? You know, parents always try to do the right thing for us. They try to find a good path.

[00:03:51] But sometimes parents get a little too overprotective. And as I said, you know, sometimes that can lead to controversy. You know, parents are always going after things that they think are going to corrupt the youth. You know, like whether just any popular thing really, you know, going all the way back to the 50s when EC Comics was under the scrutiny of parents or, you know, 80s cartoons for violence. Stuff like, you know, Pokemon was under scrutiny for a while.

[00:04:21] You know, a lot of anime. But Goosebumps was also under scrutiny. And it was under scrutiny for, get this, being too scary for kids. Go figure. The series for kids that's said to be scary was said to be too scary for kids. So there's a lot of parents who were saying that it was going to corrupt the children, it was going to scare them too much, or it was going to, you know, lead them down demonic roads in some way.

[00:04:51] So it was a whole witch hunt. And, you know, fortunately, it did not end up working out for them because Goosebumps is still very much popular today. And parents can't do anything to stop it, especially back then. And we're going to learn just why today, because we're going to take a look at some, you know, some of the arguments that were made back in the late 90s by these parents and the people who were defending the Goosebumps books. So we got a few articles and one big video to watch.

[00:05:18] But before we get into all that, I want to know your guys' initial thoughts. Why would you think that banning Goosebumps books is a bad idea altogether? Tyler, since you're our guest, why don't we start with you? Why do I think that they were wanting to be banned? Mm-hmm. I think there's multiple reasons. I think that it's one of the first book series that had illustrations that were,

[00:05:48] you know, I guess if I compared them to, like, Fear Street, right, they were cartoonish, right? So, but not in a way of animation, more of in a way of there was a realistic aspect. I think that just the variations of just crazy artwork that Tim did, I think definitely popped out. I think that was definitely noticed. Like, when you pick up a Goosebumps book, the first thing you notice is that illustration. And so some of them were pretty crazy.

[00:06:20] And then beyond that, you know, I don't know. It's hard because I'm kind of on the other side of the fence. You know what I mean? So I think I could see how parents, I mean, I've been in, I'm not a helicopter parent by any means, but I mean, I definitely try to watch, like, you know, I don't like my kids watching YouTube, you know, and it's not anything for or against it. But if I had to relate that to Goosebumps, back then there wasn't really technology much.

[00:06:48] So I think books were kind of like a YouTube for kids today, I guess, in a way, you know? So it just, I think it was something that parents in that time hadn't really seen that was geared towards kids. I agree. And Nick, you are also a parent. I'm curious on your take on the whole thing. Again, at different strokes for different folks. You know, I raised my kid a little differently than probably some others did,

[00:07:18] especially how they portrayed things in the nineties. You know, again, I've mentioned on here before, I've, I grew up with like, say child's play when I was six years old. So, you know, my household was vastly different than probably the normal household. Um, now granted, I didn't start her off like that. You know, I, I eased her into what I knew she could handle, uh, based on things. So, I mean, it's a gradual incline for her.

[00:07:47] Um, you know, hocus pocus Halloween town, and then jumping into a little bit more like into actual R rated stuff and this, that, and the other, but goosebumps being what it is. I mean, I threw her right into that. I mean, to be honest, I mean, as an adult, I'm like, this is nothing really. I mean, the, especially the show back then, I mean,

[00:08:11] so cheesy, the books very obviously changed a few things going from book to episode, but books were honestly not bad at all. I don't understand the whole hurt, but hurt that got over back in the day, you know, as we used to say up your button around the corner, stick it up there. Cause I don't see the problem. Like they just try to cancel before canceling was a thing. Like it is now a day.

[00:08:38] So I mean, like, well, in the, the thing is very strange. You guys are the demographic that you guys were kids when goosebumps was in its prime. And conversely when all these accusations and controversy was going on. So you guys are in a retrospective scenario where you can look back now as adults and be like, yeah, it was, it was stupid then it's stupid now. So. Yeah. My opinion from back then is the same as today. It was stupid.

[00:09:08] Made no sense. Because as we talked about here on here before and others have mentioned, even in the clip we'll probably see, cause I've probably watched the same clip we're going to be showing. Yeah. Um, it got me to read. Uh, I was more definitely a movie person and a TV show person. Um, but it was, you know, obviously Jacobus covers that got me into the book. And then when I read it, it got me into more of the books. I wanted to read another one.

[00:09:35] So it's a, it's a really great gateway to reading. Um, especially when you're a horror fan anyway. So I just don't, I'm curious. See it. Don't see why they did it. Yeah. I mean, either. I'm curious as to your point now, Bjorn. Um, yeah. How was that in Australia? Well, mine kind of goes off like what Tyler was saying. Cause like the covers, because I have a friend who I've said this before on the podcast, but

[00:10:04] I have a friend whose younger brother went to therapy because of the original not living dummy cover. He hated it that much. He was terrified of it. And I think if he was scared of it, there must've been a lot of kids that were terrified of some of the books, you know, just, there's just something about it. You just look at it maybe at night and you just, you get the willies, you know, you just, you know how you like to scare yourself when you're a kid. Um, I think it's just one of those scenarios. And, um, it made me think, well, if he went to therapy for it, my brother hated the girl who cried

[00:10:31] monster as much as he did, you know, the episode, then obviously there was something going on, um, that parents were seeing, like my kid was traumatized by this. Didn't like it. So they were the ones that were probably trying to ban goosebumps, um, had those experiences with the books or the TV show or whatever it was. They thought it was evil. Um, maybe they were religious. I don't know. Um, and I thought goosebumps was some kind of cult, you know, to get kids into all the,

[00:10:57] you know, demonic evil, which morning, well, again, whenever there's a situation, which is really funny because like there was a thing too, that I saw somewhat recently and I can't remember what it was, but it was regarding that as like Stein really doesn't do witches and he doesn't actually say the word witch in any of his books. And I'm like, you know what? That's not a wait a minute. Actually, that's true.

[00:11:25] I was like, cause I just thought, man, they had to have done it with like Clarissa or, you know, uh, Sarah Beth, but no, there was never any like wording saying this is a witch. This is a, they, they really tried to avoid that. The word witch. Yes. But there are still like spells and like things like that. So I, and you know, yeah, sort of like the inclination of it could be inferred or implied. Absolutely.

[00:11:52] But the fact that they didn't say that, but I think that's pretty crafty. Certain like overly, especially I'm glad you brought up the religious term because I'm a religious person myself, but like there's a lot of people for whom they wear their religion on their sleeve at all times. And I think that anything, any little thing that steps out of the boundaries of like safe, sanitized, exactly safe, sanitized like media.

[00:12:18] Welcome to the house of Stein is sort of seen as a part of the occult. So, and especially when it comes to children, there are just some parents out there who are very much like helicopter parents who, um, you know, kind of want to shield their children. But as we've always said, goosebumps was the thing that introduced kids to horror, but it was also something that introduced them to the real world.

[00:12:42] Like a lot of the themes in the goosebumps books are fantastical, but they're also very rooted in the sort of, uh, issues and dilemmas that kids go through in real life. And in a way it's very empowering because it's kids going up against these evil forces, um, to win the day. So it's, it's those sorts of things that really sort of falls flat on that argument. Um, that they're sort of like just evil, no good. They're going to corrupt.

[00:13:11] There's always going to be, there's always the thing that's going to corrupt the youth, whether it's TV or video games or school or social media, public school. Yeah. It's, it's, there's always just something that's going to be, you know, the thing that destroys our children and it never is. And the nineties was full of that. You know, you have your Bart Simpson and Beavis and Butthead and Ren and Stimpy and Daria, like all these things corrupt.

[00:13:40] That was a, I mean, I mean, might've corrupted some youth. That's a prime example. Yeah. Like South Park. None of that. My parents. Yeah. No, South Park was another thing. It was like, there was those things that like parents just were so heavily scrutinizing because they were going to destroy the youth of America. You know, again, going back to the first example I gave of EC comics and tales from the crypt

[00:14:07] back in the 1950s, like there was a whole Senate hearing about banning horror comics. And there was even like organized comic book burnings. Like that's how serious it was taken by those people. Nazis. Nazis. Yeah, but that's the thing. So, uh, as I said, a lot of this took place in the, uh, in the late nineties around 1997

[00:14:32] was when it really heated up due to a few isolated incidents, a few school districts, mostly that were brought under fire to ban them from their school libraries. Um, I do have, as I said, a few articles pulled up that I'm going to quickly share this first article we have here was courtesy of CNN. It was on January 24th, 1997. So I'm going to read off from the article here. It says parents are usually overjoyed to find their children picking up a book from the

[00:14:58] library shelf, but with titles like see cheese and die and piano lessons can be murder. RL Stein's goosebumps books are not necessarily the kind of literature. Some parents want their kids bringing home in the Minneapolis suburbs of Coon Rapids, Minnesota. Parents are trying to persuade the school board to ban the goosebumps series from one elementary school library. I'm simply exercising my right as a parent to challenge the media center on the selection of these books says one parent. There is enough violence in our society.

[00:15:26] We do not need to offer even more in our grade school libraries says another. There's no question. Children are hooked. I'd say I die without them. And like, they're a really good series says one child before he discovered the goosebumps books. He mostly read just for school book reports. And I had to force him to do that agrees his mother. Educators believe the books are useful. The books may not be great literature, but many educators believe if monsters and scary stories enhance reading skills, they serve a valuable purpose.

[00:15:54] We want them in the library says Sharon Ball, a children's librarian in Villa Park, Illinois. If they can't get their books, they won't come in. Goosebumps is in good company when it comes to the kind of books people try to ban. Others have included Huckleberry Finn, Catcher in the Rye, and Canterbury Tales. Many of the materials that are still being challenged are the materials that we would want our children to read, says Judith Krug of the Office of Intellectual Freedom. One boy says that reading the Goosebumps series led to a passion for the written word.

[00:16:24] They helped me become a fluent reader and now reading is one of my favorite things to do. Stein's stories are filled with suspense and intrigue, and some find the series not too far from Nancy Drew or the Hardy Boy Mysteries. A recent survey of Illinois children's librarians suggests series books such as Goosebumps get kids on the road to reading. It doesn't matter what you read, it's your personal taste, says Julie Brady of the Bensonville, Illinois Public Library. And the same kids who are reading Goosebumps are many times

[00:16:50] reading award-winning novels. The Anoka Hennepin Independent School District will get a better read on whether the Goosebumps series stays on the shelf next week when the issues go before the school board. So this is one of the shorter articles, but it basically gets to the main point is that some parents are saying that it's going to promote violence in society, which is a ridiculous statement. It really is. I feel like I've never read a single book.

[00:17:19] Well, definitely. Well, they even brought up like Goosebumps is basically the same thing as like Huckleberry Finn and Catcher in the Rye, like these classic stories that are being, you know, scrutinized for just existing. It really is that. And I feel like one thing we'll definitely get into when we watch the actual recording from the Anoka Hennepin School District is that I feel like

[00:17:48] some parents don't understand that children are smarter than we give them credit for. Children are not going to be persuaded to violence because they read a book. Because they read a book with a ghost or a monster and it does not mean they're going to go, you know, rob a bank or like hold people hostage or something like that. I feel like that's doing a huge disservice. Thine made me do it. Thine made me do it. He put those images in my brain.

[00:18:18] It's ridiculous. It's like they say Goosebumps was a gateway, you know, to like horror, gateway drug to horror. It was also a gateway to just reading. Like kids were reading because of Goosebumps and then they read other things, you know, so. I know like and I can attest to that.

[00:18:37] So like I have difficulties reading even now as an adult and Goosebumps was truly the first book series I ever picked up when I was like in the third grade and actually comprehended and was interested enough to keep me reading. And so if it wasn't for Goosebumps, I wouldn't probably be the reader I became to be. So. Exactly. Not only reading, but writing like people. I have power.

[00:19:04] Many people who wanted to write, you know, their own stories because of Goosebumps. So it's like if it's, you know, obviously it's not having the sort of effect that they're claiming it's having. Actually, it's having a very beneficial effect on children. So it's I don't know. It's a very ridiculous statement to say that it's going a book series intended for children is going to turn them to violence. Again, it's going back to like stuff like how there are like GTA is going to make people want to shoot. Go out and shoot people.

[00:19:31] I mean, when I was playing for this, I used to just put the weapon sheets on and just start killing everybody. So I don't know. It's a video game. It's not real. There's a difference between reality and a video game. I feel like kids are smart enough to know. Obviously, honestly, if the parents are so concerned, you know, they need to just teach children right from wrong. It's not about banning things that are harmless.

[00:19:59] It's about teaching your children to do right in the world. Right. I mean, again, that goes right back to what I said earlier. It's all dependent on your household, how you raise your children and, you know, what you think they can handle at the time. If you don't think your kid could read, say, this book at the time, don't let them read it. But, you know, if they're just big scaredy cats, you know, and you know it, don't let them read it. It's fine. And as a parent. I mean, my daughter's a straight A student, right? She definitely doesn't get that from me.

[00:20:31] You know, to quote Turk from Scrubs, you know, my girlfriend wasn't the only one with 34 Cs, if you know what I'm saying. So I don't know where she gets her smarts from, probably her mom, but like she hates reading, though. That's the crazy part. But she's book smart. She's definitely not street smart. And that's what's hilarious about the whole situation. So, again, this goes to how you're raised in a household.

[00:20:58] So, I mean, it just baffles me. It really does. And I love how they have the commentary up top in this article, too, that says it's not great literature. But so basically, they're like, this sucks. But these books may not be great literature, but many educators. Well, it's apparently good enough literature to be the number one bestselling book series in the world up until Harry Potter. Well, that's the thing.

[00:21:25] All these parents are obviously still set in their ways, but they still managed to be like, it doesn't matter. Kids are going to want to read these books regardless. Like, you're not going to stop them. I'm kind of surprised that they only went for like the school level and didn't try to like outright cancel R.L. Stine himself, like go to his go to his place of work or his apartment or something and just start writing. Well, if this was in today's world and this happened, they probably would have.

[00:21:56] But given the time that this was all happening and everything, they didn't really have that as an option, I guess. Yeah. So next up, we got another article. You know, it's you say that it's funny because you speak to any person like any librarian or someone that owns a bookshop and they'll tell you the same thing about Harry Potter. It's not good literature. The world that J.K. Rowling created is phenomenal, but they aren't great literature. Like, they're not written very well.

[00:22:24] I would say that Harry Potter is satanic too because it deals with wizards and, you know, spells and whatnot. Witches and wizards and evil wizards and witches and, yeah. Newsflash. Literally, it's no man. There's evil things in the world. Serpents and snakes. But it's, yeah, it's funny how like the two biggest selling book series in the world are considered to be like terrible literature. But the worlds and the characters that these authors created are what makes them amazing.

[00:22:54] The bigger they are, the bigger targets they are, I'm afraid. Yeah. True story. Oh, yeah. So I have another article right here. This one's from Biz Journals and it was on February 9th, 1997. So this was not too far after the first article. A little longer one. So let's get into it. If you build a successful Goosebumps series, they will come. It's just the way business is.

[00:23:19] Whether or not to ban the Goosebumps books from the Anoka Hennepin School District isn't a decision of one woman or a school board. The decision has already been made by the fact that 160 million Goosebumps books have been rung up at the cash register since 1992. Kids and adults have been voting with their allowances and paychecks. And they continue to cast favorable ballots with their steady purchase of 4 million books each month. People buy what they like and if they don't like something, they don't buy again. That's just the way business is.

[00:23:47] It doesn't matter if the books are removed from the library or not. Kids will just get their Goosebumps at Barnes & Noble. So if the Blaine woman realizes that she can't change the world by banning a few books, her point must be to make her opinion heard. And this is it. She believes Goosebumps are too scary and kids will have nightmares if they read them. But too scary for whom? What kids are we talking about? This is probably the most true part of this whole article. Is a story about a scarecrow chasing a kid in a cornfield scarier than a drive-by shooting in front of his house?

[00:24:17] Is a story about a little girl who wants to turn into a comic book villain going to damage a kid's psyche more than watching graphic news video of pins being gouged into a marine cadet's bloody chest? Jesus Christ. Or else the author of the series has said that The Goosebumps books provide safe scares and an entertaining escape from the frightening world kids really have to live in. The books are fantasies with predictable endings. Kids know things are going to turn out okay before they begin reading.

[00:24:47] But the Blaine argument is that Goosebumps books are actually harmful. In a business, If a product proves to be harmful to those who use it, It's often recalled by the manufacturer. But so far, No one has reported that the Goosebumps books eat kids' hair, And no one has suffocated after getting their head caught between the pages. If the scary parts are too unpleasant or give your kids nightmares, Just don't buy the books. Tell your kid not to check them out of the library. They're not on a required reading list, So just avoid them,

[00:25:22] And the obvious argument that we shouldn't ban books, Is that their phenomenal popularity and enormous sales can't be ignored. They're doing something right. The light horror genre is hit with kids and getting them to read. The Goosebumps craze started with the books, And despite all the ancillary Goosebumps products on the shelves, Books are the core product, And they dominate sales. The books are not video games, They're not cartoons, They're not sitcoms. The books have to be read. So this phenomenon,

[00:25:51] The Goosebumps craze, Is a big motivator for kids who are reluctant or poor readers, And they are a lot of struggling readers these days for many reasons, Including the reading program fad, Which abandoned rote learning in favor of creative learning. As a result, Thousands of kids are in various stages of illiteracy. Last year, Only 41% of students in the urban metro area schools Passed the basic standards reading test. So I'm going to pause real quick. So do you guys remember,

[00:26:20] And I don't know why this just popped in my head as you were reading this, But it made me think, I was like, They had such a big problem with this, But didn't one kid dress up when they had like a, Your favorite dress up as your favorite author or something, And he dressed up or favorite character from a book. That's why it was, Because he dressed up as like the dude from 50 shades of gray. This is a kid who's like eight, Nine years old or something. Oh, Oh, Oh, Oh, And this, And this, And that's not an issue,

[00:26:49] But goosebumps is, It's like, How did this kid like, Even get ahold of this book? His parents had to agree to him, Right? Or was it in the school library? Yeah. Lots of problems with that. You just know this kid has a basement. I don't know if you guys remember that or not, But that just, This guy, This kid is growing up now with a basement full of toys. What are you doing here? Yeah. No, I can, I can, I can attest to that for sure too. Cause like,

[00:27:19] So up here in Washington state, At least where I'm in the city, Um, My kids, So it's, They have intermediate school and middle school together. So you have fifth grade through eighth grade, Right? So I've been to their library and it's exactly what you're talking about is there are 50 shades of gray. There are big boy books in there and there's fifth graders in there, you know, Like reading a lot of this stuff. And, You know,

[00:27:49] It's crazy to me that they don't have two separate libraries for the age differences, you know, And I just, It really kind of baffles me, you know, And as a parent, like, Again, And I'm kind of like with Nick on that, Where I let my kids do their thing, You know, And, And mature as they are. And I just teach them good morals, But there is a little bit of a line. I feel like, You know, Obviously I don't want my, Uh, 10 year old reading 50 shades of gray, You know, That's not really something I want him to be exposed.

[00:28:19] Um, But, You know, Like goosebumps, You know, Some fictional story about monsters that he can relate to. Um, You know, I don't, I don't see how that's, You know, Comparable to some of the things these, These people put in these articles of like, It's just funny. It's really silly. Yeah. Well, I love the blunt, Like just the bluntness of, Uh, This writer, Connie, Connie King Ray is the author of, Uh, This particular article.

[00:28:47] And I just love the bluntness so far. I'm just like, Is there really like anything worse than goosebumps? Like we talk about, They gave those horrific examples. And it's like, Yeah, There's real life violence in our world. There's way worse than the stuff in a goosebumps book. And again, It, It even said the thing that, You know, You had talked about Tyler. It's just that, You know, There, There needs to be a push to want to read. Like we need to let kids just read at their own pace because,

[00:29:17] You know, By blocking off the, All these series, Some of which are very interesting to kids. You're barring them from improving in their literacy skills. And that's a bad thing. So it's like, Yeah, You know, Maybe some kids are scared of goosebumps. You know, That's totally, That's unbelievably plausible. But, You know, Your kid is not this other kid. Like if you're scared of them,

[00:29:44] That doesn't mean that every other kid deserves to have that taken away from them. That's not fair to everyone else. Well, And, You know, Even to add like to the TV show on top of that, Like, Obviously looking back for all of us, I'm sure we all realize it's pretty cheesy, But, You know, If you relate that to like, Are you afraid of the dark? Which I feel like was five times as scary as goosebumps, You know, And that was on national TV every single day for probably five, Six years. So, You know, And of course most parents didn't have a problem with that, You know, Cause it's on TV,

[00:30:14] It's regulated. Oh, It's, You know, So, I guess to me, It's just crazy that all of it, It just, Yeah, It's just silly, Silly, Silly. Yep. It is. And that's what gets me too. And it made me think when you, When you talked about separating the libraries, It makes me think of like a video store of having its adult films back here, Having it, You know, The safe stuff out here. Exactly. You know, I guess you're going to have to have a library the same way, Just to hear all the X-rated library stuff back here.

[00:30:43] There are things that, You know, You should keep your kids from watching like extreme violent, You know, Like, You know, I, I know Nick, You always talk about how you grew up watching child's play and, You know, Tweets their own. But like, At the end of the day, Yeah, Violent, Like, Actually violent movies or like, You know, Sexually explicit, You know, Books or, You know, Movies like that. Yeah, Kids shouldn't be watching that stuff, But, Something that is very clearly intended for children, Obviously,

[00:31:12] Number one, It's written with the intention of children reading it. And number two, It goes through editors. So, It's not like they're just throwing these out all willy-nilly. Obviously, Obviously, There's like, Sensors to make sure it doesn't go too far. So, If they're out there in the world, Then that's, That's, It's appropriate. So, It's, I don't know. It's a very silly argument altogether, But, I'm going to continue on the article here. No watching, No watching Terrifier 3 until you're at least 10. Yeah,

[00:31:42] That's probably a good example of that. That's the crazy part too. Now, Like, While I mentioned child's play, I think, Was it you, Isaiah, Or was it somebody else? Somebody had told me there was a child that got brought to Terrifier 2 or 3 when they went to go see it. I don't think I told that story, But I know I heard it somewhere before. Yeah. Gosh. And I'm, I thought it was you, But maybe it wasn't. But somebody had told me, I swear, That like,

[00:32:12] This person brought in like, Two or three like, Ten year olds or something. Or under. Like, And I'm like, To Terrifier? Not even the first one. The second or third one. I'm like, You could have brought them. That one's bad enough too. Don't get me wrong. That's fine. It's not like Scream. Like, There are levels to horror. I mean, My daughter, Like, I would not subject her to Terrifier. Simply because

[00:32:42] That type of horror Is extreme. And it takes a type. Only to find out that because she's a teenager, Of course, She'd watch it with her friends anyway. And I didn't know this. But I'm like, I'm not going to watch it with you. I mean, Just saying. You know. Yeah. That's weird for a lot of reasons. But Scream or whatever else, Sure. Literally, Like, Terrifier 3 was the first film I've ever seen That made me sick. Because I saw it in the theater. But it was only one scene. Like, There was one particular scene

[00:33:11] That was just like, This is the most disgusting thing I think I've ever seen. And being a guy, So, To the guys here that have seen the movie, Well, They think they'll know the scene I'm talking about. Because I was like, But yeah, It's just the same thing. It's like, Yeah, Like, You have levels of horror, As Nick was saying. Terrifier is like, Yeah, Imagine taking a six-year-old to see that. And then like, They want to dress up as that for Halloween. Could you imagine? But that's, But that's a perfect example of like, That,

[00:33:41] That is a situation where it's going too far. Like, That's a situation where you're like, Okay, Now it's time to be a parent and be like, No, You can't watch that. You know, Something like that. So, Well, We've all messed up before, Right? Like, I took my kids this like, Two years ago. It was a complete accident, But I don't know what I was thinking. But, You know, I've seen so many Marvel movies that I don't always pay attention to kind of what's going out. And we were at Wonderland one day, If any of you know,

[00:34:10] That is a big arcade place. And some of them have a movie theater. And I thought, At the time, I had a seven and a nine-year-old. And they were with me. And I said, Well, Let's go see a movie. And Suicide Squad 2 had just come out. So, I bought tickets, Not even thinking about it. Because I was like, Oh, The first one was great. It wasn't super terrible. But it had been a while to where I didn't really remember much. Go to find out. We get two minutes into it.

[00:34:38] And there's heads being blown off. And all this stuff. And I just, It was funny. Because I remember people, People staring at me with my kids. And I'm all happy. Got popcorn. No idea what's about to happen. And yeah, About five minutes in, My son whispers over to me. He goes, Dad, Am I supposed to be watching this? I said, No, Son. No, We're going to leave. And so we left. But yeah, It was just too much. But it was a mistake on my part.

[00:35:08] My wife was cracking up though. She's like, What are you thinking? I don't know. I guess I wasn't. I didn't. You know what? That's good parenting though. Because you realize that. And you're like, Okay, Maybe we should not stick around. There's some people who will just be like, Oh, We're here. Whatever. That was the thing. I truly just didn't even, I didn't think about it. You know, I didn't even, It's such an old school theater. They didn't really have much info outside of just the name of it. And so,

[00:35:38] You know, I feel like if I would have saw in the R, Rated R, And the Y, I would have immediately, You know, Obviously been like, Yeah, It's a no go. But, The Terrifier thing too, Nick, I went through that with my daughter too. Like, She wanted to watch it really, Really bad with me. And I told her I wouldn't do it. And I watched it. And same thing. It was pretty bad, You know, As far as the gore and stuff. And, And, And go to find out that later that weekend, She watched it with her friends. I said, That's fine, Man, It's up to you. That's on your, Your mind, You know, But I'm not going to do it with you. Like, That's,

[00:36:09] That's a little much. So. Right. When you get to, When you have kids of a certain age, And I know these books were targeted, I would say between eight to 11. Yeah. Probably their demographic at the time. Um, That's, These books were right up that alley. So that really was totally fine. I mean, They were, What you would consider regulated books for their appropriate age group and everything. And, Yes. But when you get to, And I mentioned this before too, When we had some artists on here. I'm like,

[00:36:38] When you have something that's transferring from a, Uh, Like an imaginary, Like you have to imagine it yourself going to an actual, Like visual experience. Like what you see can be more harmful most of the time, Especially in this day and age, Than what you'd actually read. Like you can read something and kind of be shocked, Or you can imagine how that situation would unfold. But when you actually see it,

[00:37:06] That's a whole nother level of going to mess with your head. If you're not ready for it. Yep. Agreed. So I'm going to continue with the article here. It says, As a result, Thousands of kids are in various stages of illiteracy. Last year, Only 41% of students in the urban metro area schools passed the basic standards reading test. And these are the kids we're depending on to run our corporations, Keep our economy competitive, And take our country into the next century. It all boils down to business.

[00:37:35] The LA Times on October 7th, 96th, Said, Goosebumps books aren't great literature. Even so, Educators say the books have value at a time, When two of five fourths, Two of five fourth graders nationwide, Read below grade level. I'd rather kids read good literature, Than less good literature, But kids aren't reading a whole lot these days, Says UCLA education professor, For children, Goosebumps is more than a book. It's a status symbol.

[00:38:04] If a kid isn't into goosebumps, He's out of it somehow. And using a Goosebumps book as a status symbol, Is far preferable to keeping a gun in his locker. When police officers protest about being understaffed, And city hall complaints about the high cost of fighting crime, Ramsey County Sheriff Bob Wecker offers an unusual solution, Literacy. He has said that the best way to deal with a growing gang problem, Is to make sure kids learn to read. He has said most hardcore gang members, Couldn't read by the end of second grade,

[00:38:33] And that their low self-esteem, Pushed them into a life of violence. In the December 2nd, 1996 publishers weekly, Stein is giving credit for his ability to snag the ever elusive middle grade boy reader. That's the same one Sheriff Fletcher and his team of officers are trying to save with their volunteer reading program. It's catching the problem early when treating it is less expensive. It's good business. So that's the end of the talk. It didn't really mean that someone thinks Goosebumps books led to freaking school shootings,

[00:39:02] Or could have been the reason for that. That's, come on. Like, that's ridiculous. Like, just because you read a Goosebumps book. Like, nah. I believe that, unfortunately. Way too, like, yeah, but that just shows how crazy people are that they think that. Like, you know, I think that's just ridiculous. Yeah. It's taking something that shouldn't have been to the extreme. Yeah. That's extreme.

[00:39:30] They're trying to use to scare. They're using it as a scare tactic to, to parents and stuff. That's all that really probably was. Your kids read Goosebumps. Next thing they'll be doing is carrying a gun. Like, come on. So. Because for whatever reason, they think the books advocate for violence, which they don't. And again, that goes back to what we said earlier. Just if the parents would have read a book, they'd see what it's about. Yeah.

[00:39:57] It's a problem solved scenario before it got into this mountain out of a molehill. Yeah. So this article right here is the top censored stories of 1995. So there's a section here about Goosebumps from Bay County, Florida. It says, The Goosebumps series of horror novels for young readers by Arlstein will not be removed from Bay County Elementary Schools. The Bay County School Board on May 2nd unanimously approved a three-part recommendation by Superintendent Stephanie Gale

[00:40:27] and a committee convened to review the series to keep the books in school media centers, allow teachers to retain the right to choose books to read to their classes, and give parents the right to request alternate assignments. The school system can't be a parent. It's the parent who makes the difference, Gale said. We can't be all things to all people. There are things on the shelves that I don't like. I'm not thrilled with the Goosebumps series. Coordinator of Media Technology, Loretta Huggins,

[00:40:56] chaired the committee that reviewed the 43 titles in the series. While the books weren't high-quality literature, there's that word again, she said that they were high-interest, low-level reading books that inspired a lot of students to begin reading on a regular basis. The decision to retain the books followed emotional appeals from Kip and Lisa Clinton, a Lynn Haven couple who requested in March that the books be banned after a teacher at Highland Park Elementary School

[00:41:24] read one of them to their daughter's third grade class. In their complaint, the Clintons specifically cite pages and passages in five of Stein's books, The Barking Ghosts for Satanic Symbolism and Gestures, Possession and Description of Dogs as Medicing and Attacking, Night of the Living Dummy 2 for Spells and Chants, Violence and Vandalism, The Haunted Mask for a Graphic Description of an Ugly Mask, Demonic Possession, Violence, Disturbing Scenes and Dialogue,

[00:41:52] The Scarecrow Walks at Midnight for Satanic Acts and Symbolism and Disturbing Scenes, and Say, Cheese and Die for Promoting Mischief, Demonic Possession, a reference to Satan and his goals, a disturbing scene describing a death, and a scene that tells of a child disappearing from a birthday party. They also asked that all titles in the Goosebumps series presently in print and all forthcoming be banned from all county elementary schools. This was reported on April 2nd.

[00:42:19] So, I'm willing to bet by many of those accusations that this couple here was very, very religious. Yeah, just based on those descriptive words they use for these particular books. Yeah, literally. It's like just demonic possession, you know, reference to Satan and his goals is probably the funniest one to me. Because it's like...

[00:42:51] Look, I'm a religious person too, okay? Everybody has their own beliefs in life and whatnot, and everybody's sort of, from birth, given sort of that sense of right or wrong. But, this is just beyond ridiculous. Like, these are children's books, guys. Like, nobody's putting the Necronomicon in the children's section at your library, okay?

[00:43:19] Just think how many Goosebumps books were probably burnt. Like, there was probably these little groups of these activists that were, like, putting them in a fire and just being like, you rotten hell. How many first edition, welcome to Dead House. Oh, God. Again. How many... I have a heart attack thinking about it. Oh, my God, yes. Back then probably was a first print of Welcome to Dead House being burnt in the fire.

[00:43:46] But also, I have to bring, you know, note to how, up to this point, we've heard the same thing, is that these committee chair members and these superintendents and these teachers are saying the same thing, that Goosebumps is not high-quality literature. Who the fuck cares if it's high-quality or not, okay? Who cares, man? Cool. We want kids to be reading freaking Shakespeare at eight years old. That's totally reading.

[00:44:14] Yeah, let me read A Tale of Two Cities, please. Like, it's... Guys, we can't expect kids to immediately come out the womb reading, like, classical literature at all times. They're not... They wanted you to read it quickly. I was going to say, that's exactly the same thing, too.

[00:44:38] It's like, as a person who didn't read well, any book you'd shoved of mice and men, whatever, you know, that you shoved in front of me, little did I have of any interest, you know, with my ADD and stuff. But also, you know, some people... Like, for me, I can't read, you know, like, realistic books, right? Of, like, you know, I can do, like, an autobiography, but that's what Goosebumps, I feel like, did was it made...

[00:45:07] I liked creative writing. So, like, for me, I know, like, in the third grade, when we started doing, like, you know, you guys all remember doing cursive first drafts and narrative writing and creative writing days and all this shit, and you had to write a story or whatever. But I feel like Goosebumps, for me, really got me into that, right? And so, it's just a shame to see stuff like this, and people be so close-minded and ignorant to things that they clearly just can't comprehend

[00:45:35] because, you know, they are stuck in their own little world. Mm-hmm. Oh, 100%. And, again, you know, these parents, their complaint basically arose because a teacher read them to the entire class at a school. And as a result, they wanted to ban all previous and all future Goosebumps books. They wanted to take it away from every other person

[00:45:59] and, I mean, I'm sorry, but how unbelievably selfish is, like, just that sort of mentality is just like, okay, we don't like them. We're going to ruin it for everybody else. Like, it's, again, it's unfair to those who do enjoy these books and do want to read them because you're injecting your own personal beliefs on them. That's not okay. Like, it's never okay to do that.

[00:46:26] If you don't want your kid reading them, then you be the parent. Home school them. Yeah. You know, might as well home school them. Kids are going to read those books. Kids are going to read those books. Right. You're not going to stop them. So you might as well just shelter your kid in a bubble for the rest of your life because, you know, you're not really going to win in a scenario like this. And obviously in this situation, you know, they didn't win. They kept all the books on the shelves and left it to the discretion of parents and teachers.

[00:46:56] But just the mere fact. You've got to fight for your right to read Stein. They need to make a cover of that. There would have been, like, people with picket signs, like, out the front of schools, I reckon, being, like, bang, Goosebumps. Goosebumps, no good. Goosebumps is the devil. Fucking, I don't know, something like that. And I guarantee, like, that would have happened a lot back then. Goosebumps is the devil. Yeah.

[00:47:25] Goosebumps is the devil. Bobby Boucher? All right. So this article right here is from 2013, but this is way after. And we'll come back to the 90s, specifically the Anoka-Hennepin incident, since that was the most popular one. But we'll come back to that in a little bit. I did want to bring up two articles from very recently, however, just to sort of see how this is looked back in modern times.

[00:47:54] So this one's from Penn.org on September 30th, 2013. So it says, For our second annual Banned Books Month, Penn America once again reached out to Penn members, supporters, and staff writers, and editors from all genres, blah, blah, blah, to send their reflections on the banned books that mattered most to them. And it says, Fear is at the heart of Goosebumps, a series that acts in the same way that immunizations do. And it's just as mandatory for children's health.

[00:48:23] It gives them a small dose of scary and lets them produce needed antibodies towards fear, book after book, so that they slowly become less affected. Between 1990 and 1999, Books in the Goosebumps book series made the top 20 list of most challenged books between 2000 and 2009. They made the top 100. The objections came from parents who felt the books were too frightening for kids and or contained satanic and occult themes.

[00:48:50] Both images seemed rather ridiculous with titles like Go Eat Worms, The Cuckoo Clock of Doom, and It Came from Beneath the Sink. Cuckoo Clock of Doom! That is not to say that frightening things don't happen in Goosebumps books. Since A. Cheese and Die children have to make an escape from a mad scientist who wants to hold them hostage so they don't spill his secrets. After they make a run for it, the main character, Greg, reflects on this. Forever, Greg thought, Dr. Fredericks wanted to keep sharing me down in the basement forever.

[00:49:19] Now, Dr. Fredericks didn't wish to sadistically torture them or sexually assault them. The obvious place that adult minds go when they hear that a man wants to keep a child. He was on the union. Forever. He was there. He wouldn't even describe what he was thinking. Yeah. He just didn't want them to blab. We know, however, that in real life the situation wouldn't be so benign. Kids know it too. They do. Put your shit on the camera.

[00:49:44] Even if they somehow never catch a soundbite from the evening news or a summary from an informed peer, children talk amongst themselves about these horrible things. They realize it's taboo, discouraged information, a subject their parents are too uncomfortable with that many wish to avoid entirely, making it all the more vital for them to depend upon one another for enlightenment. See? Because kids are not stupid. Even if they're sheltered in the most comprehensive maximal way, this fact is still implicit in our warnings to them. Never talk to strangers.

[00:50:14] The obvious question in this directive is why, and children are smart enough to realize this means that some adults are a threat to their safety and well-being. This realization, however, while accepted by the child, inevitably causes fear. And how do children reconcile the terror of knowing that some adults would do awful things to them if given the chance? The challenges to goosebumps by protective parents imply that fear is a bad thing, that the books and fear in general are not appropriate for children.

[00:50:44] Obviously, too much fear, like too much of anything, can be detrimental. But one's relationship to fear, what makes one afraid and how afraid, and how one deals with being afraid is a necessary balancing skill that needs to be self-calibrated over time. And goosebumps help children to do that perfectly. The series never goes too heavy or serious. The child protagonists never die, and the threats are almost always supernatural events that couldn't actually happen.

[00:51:12] There is never any profane language, and children can count on and predict the plot structures in a way that is reassuring. They move through the text at their own pace. They can close the book and stop reading at any time if things begin to feel too intense for them. That's important. And since kids are usually allowed to self-select books, children who aren't ready to read them or don't want to read them likely won't. At Johnsonville Elementary in Blaine, Minnesota, one school where the books were challenged, so we already read about this,

[00:51:41] The principal defended the series by stating that while his 11-year-old son reads them furiously, his 10-year-old daughter chooses not to touch them. She knows that for her, they would not be a positive experience. Kids can choose. So, I'll pause it right there for right now. That is a very important factor in how I said earlier that kids are smarter than we give them credit for. And that's because they can choose what they feel they're ready for and what they're not ready for.

[00:52:11] Me as a kid, it took me a while to get into Goosebumps. When I first discovered the books, I didn't want to read them. I thought they were going to be too scary. After a few years, I picked them up because I felt like I was ready to read them. That's just a thing that kids do. They're intelligent enough to make their own choices. And I feel like parents need to be parents, but only when they need to be the parents. You have to give your kid independence.

[00:52:36] That's the only way they're going to grow and mature into normal adults. Normal is a relative term. Well... I mean, I'm not normal to most people. I mean... To put me in the right crowd or at a horror convention, I'm normal. Normal. I mean morally normal. I have an awkward laugh. Sorry, guys. No, you're kidding.

[00:53:07] The same cannot be said about the world. Life can seem unkind, devastating, too painful to bear. Illness, death, disaster, cruelty. These are a cold reality no matter how much we want them not to be. Goosebumps doesn't introduce children to fear. Every child who reads his or her first Goosebumps book has already been terrified by something or someone no matter how perfect the life they've lived. After all, fear is also a very healthy force for good that helps children accomplish goals, stay safe, and think about the consequences of decisions.

[00:53:37] I assert, the author, that the original Goosebumps series and all subsequent spinoffs are so popular, over 300 million sold, making Stein the second most best-selling children's author of all time, J.K. Rowling I, because they respect children enough to confirm what they already know about the world. It's not always safe. That, at times, they will be misunderstood. That even well-intentioned adults can inevitably fail children without meaning to. In Night of the Living Dummy 2, the child protagonist Amy laments of her mother,

[00:54:07] She thinks I'm crazy, I realized. She thinks I'm totally messed up. Goosebumps affirms that bad things can happen to children by no fault of their own, and when they do, children themselves can be a powerful agent by attempting to think of the best possible solution. Even when all the options have undesirable aspects, usually in Goosebumps, the story is resolved due to the wisdom and action of the child protagonist, often working in cooperation with other children. Kids love these books because fear is diffused within their pages.

[00:54:35] It lets them ultimately cuddle up to the idea of being afraid. It is fear rendered in a gentle stuffed plushie that helps readers to be more confident the next time they're truly afraid in life. They felt the lion's breath and are now able to withstand its cause, to understand that though things seem awful at present, happier shores may eventually appear. So, I actually really like this article. In fact, I think it might be my personal favorites of the ones that I've presented thus far,

[00:55:02] because it really does just show why the whole matter of banning them is detrimental to kids, and why it's really not an issue to begin with, in my opinion. So, this one right here, this is one last article before we move on to the video recording. This is from The Morning Call, and this was on October 4th, 2021, by The Morning Call.

[00:55:31] Purnell Parker's bedroom is jammed with the trappings of a 10-year-old boy, wrestling trophies, football pennants, a Sony PlayStation, and white bookcase stuffed with Goosebumps books. Purnell owns like 41 of the 54 titles in the children's horror series, lined up neatly and ordered by number. The Allentown... Well, this article is already a sham. Can't take it seriously. I don't know.

[00:55:59] The Allentown youth has been reading Goosebumps books almost exclusively since he was in first grade. I like scary books, Purnell explained. So do Purnell's friends... Of our other elementary school children in the Lay Valley and around the world, who devour the fast-paced books about youths and their run-ins with vampires, ghosts, and mummies as quickly as they were published. They watch Goosebumps on television, wear Goosebumps clothing, and carry Goosebumps notebooks.

[00:56:26] But many adults don't share children's romance with the popular paperbacks from Scholastic. Goosebumps author R.L. Stine may have been the nation's top-selling author for 1996, according to USA Today's best-selling books list. But his Goosebumps series was also challenged by parents more than any other book last year. So actually, this might be an article from 1987. It just might have been updated for the modern album. Same one!

[00:56:53] There were at least 20 challenges to the presence of the series in schools, more than in any year since Goosebumps first hit the shelves almost five years ago, according to Deborah LeBow, Assistant Director for the Office of Intellectual Freedom, a division of the America Library Association, which monitors banned books. Some challengers have called Goosebumps books satanic, violent, and disturbing.

[00:57:18] But LeBow said that many of the challenges are unusual in that parents just say they are bad books. LeBow figures the parents are frustrated with the pervasiveness of the Goosebumps phenomenon. There are 180 million Goosebumps books in print, Stine pens one story a month, and has a contract to do more than 100. While Scholastic reports sales have leveled off, many fans are hooked and read nothing but. On our list is The Adventures of Huck Finn and Catcher in the Rye,

[00:57:46] and nobody says they are bad books, says LeBow. We're hearing weird rumors that R.L. Stine doesn't even write these books, and that he's a child molester. People are really concerned about these particular books. One case that garnered national attention concluded last month where a suburban Minnesota school district rejected a mother's request that Goosebumps be pulled from the elementary school library. The mother said they are too frightening for children and inappropriate for schools. Her oldest daughter is a first grader.

[00:58:15] The school district concluded that the books are age-appropriate, help build fluency in reading, and attract reluctant readers. Almost got them, Eddie. Almost got them. Yeah. Not this time. I just love that the idea that parents were going so far as to call R.L. Stine a child molester because he writes scary books. Bad boys for life. Literally.

[00:58:42] I mean, if that's all it takes, then there's a lot of child molesters out there, then. I also like that they also threw in the whole rumor of him not even writing his own books, so that was very much a topical issue at the time, too. Yeah. Well, Bao said all the challenges to the series concluded similarly. In the Lay Valley area, Goosebumps books are widely available in classrooms and school libraries.

[00:59:10] Local parents and educators interviewed usually express some dissatisfaction with Goosebumps, saying the books are hardly fine literature. There it is again. But most agreed children should be allowed to choose what they read, and in this age of video games and 100-channel television, they're thrilled to see them interested in books. The thing about Goosebumps is that they like... I want to know, like... They say, like, these parents and educators not fine books.

[00:59:36] What were they reading that they classified as fine books, I wonder? Because they only mention, like, constantly, Huckleberry Finn and Catcher in the Rye, which are classics. But I don't enjoy those books either. Like, I had to read those for school. They are very droll, in my opinion. But I would love to know... What are they reading? Was it Fifty Shades of Grey? Clifford. Is that your fine literature? You were reading Clifford. You were reading Clifford. Yeah.

[01:00:06] Is it Captain Underpants? You know, was that your fine literature? But Goosebumps isn't. Babyship is clubbed. It's so subjective. It's just ridiculous. And it just cracks me up that they just keep re-acting the same thing in every article. Well, this happened... If you remember, too, this also in the 90s, there was actually about the same time frame. And again, it's just the same kind of dilemma.

[01:00:29] It wasn't a book, but when the Nintendo 64 came out, when GoldenEye 007 came out, it was a big deal. Like, a lot of parents... Like, Nintendo almost got in some trouble. Because it was just... It was like one of the first games that was really geared towards that system, really for kids. And it was tough. And again, like you said, just the sentiment.

[01:00:59] Even on the game system were Goosebumps. Like, every generation, I feel like, always has something to try to cancel. But, I mean, this stuff, it's just... It's kind of like the satanic panic in the 80s, you know? It's just so silly. It's like, it's just... It's just the most asinine stuff you've ever heard. You're like... I mean, how far back you are in the basement, you know? Like, how far back are you in there, you know? Go touch grass.

[01:01:28] Literally, go touch grass. To continue, it says, The thing about Goosebumps is that kids are reading. They're actually reading, said Gail Chaplin, library at Central Elementary School in Allentown. If a series is going to do that for kids, that's wonderful. Said Janet Spence, librarian at DeFranco Elementary School in Bangor. My thought is a lot of kids who take these books out are kids who might not be reading. If they are reading, that's my main point.

[01:01:57] My second goal is to channel them out of that sort of book to a more challenging book, or one that is considered to be better literature. I find that eventually the kids get tired of them, and they're going to start looking for something else to read. I think if you tell the kid, no, you can't read that, that's sending a message. Joanne Jones, a third-degree teacher at Union Terrace Elementary School in Allentown, said she would never suggest her students read Goosebumps, but she has seen inadequate readers work hard to master them.

[01:02:25] She has a lot of books in her classroom library, and students often choose them for a daily program called Reader's Workshop. I like them to have a variety of authors. However, the premise is self-selected reading. Nobody tells me what to get from Encore books when I go. Some teachers won't allow students to read only Goosebumps for formal reading assignments. Spence, for example, said she will only accept only one Goosebumps book per marking period for a program that enables children to win prizes for reading,

[01:02:54] and Goosebumps books are not available in every school library. I would prefer to spend my money on books that supplement the curriculum, explained Mara Shee, librarian at Marveen Elementary School in Bethlehem. Dr. J. Robert Dornish, elementary education professor at Kutztown University and avid collector of children's literature, believes Goosebumps are so mediocre that they would be better left out of school libraries.

[01:03:22] They're not good literature, and there's so much good literature out there, he said. I think if you put it in the library, then you are saying this is a book I endorse. The way I feel is that children who want these books will find them. Educators agree that while Goosebumps books are suspenseful and have a lot of dialogue, they tend to be formulaic with thin plots, simple characters, and an abundance of slang. But that's usually the case with book series for the mass market.

[01:03:50] I see it as when I was growing up with the Bobsy twins Nancy Drew and Hardy Boys type series, said Sharon Hamilton, librarian at Cheston Elementary School in Easton. If they read these books and enjoy them, it's fine that they like them. Then maybe in a few years they will be looking for something with a little more depth to it. The popularity of Goosebumps has sparked a boom in children's horror books, among them Christopher Pike's Spooksville from Pocket Books and Dead Time Stories by A.C. Cazone from Troll Communications.

[01:04:19] It's what most kids want to read at the moment, scarier books, says Roy Wandelmaler, publisher of Troll. But to these publishers, scary does not equal violence. They promote the books as thrillers, but without blood and gore. If anything happens, a monster chases them and there's a threat to kill someone, said Pernal Parker. Bill Wright, spokesman for Scholastic, offered the company line. The stories offer children 8-12 safe scares, not unlike those found in classic fairy tales

[01:04:48] and children's literature staples like The Hardy Boys, Nancy Drew, and Wizard of Oz. And this is how Stein explained his intentions in a live chat on America Online several years ago. I'm very careful never to make these books too real. They are supposed to be entertainment. So I'm careful to keep many real-world problems such as drug abuse or alcoholism out. I try to give readers shivers, not nightmares. But that could depend on who is reading the book. Sharon Frankenfield, a librarian at Allentown Public Library,

[01:05:17] said children in the early elementary grades often want to read Goosebumps. It's a first or second grader, I'll say. That's not for you. Brenda Ross, a librarian at George Wolfe Elementary School in Northampton, good God, there's a lot of people they interviewed, said she doesn't let children under third grade check out Goosebumps. By fifth grade, many children have outgrown Goosebumps and turned to Stein's Fear Street series, an even edgier horror thriller series published by Pocket Books.

[01:05:47] Ten-year-old Katrina Krause of Allentown finds the fright factor of Goosebumps disappointing, so she's immersed in Fear Street. They're really suspenseful, she said. I've read at least 20 of them. Educators interviewed said Fear Street books are not available in their schools. Hamilton, the Cheston school librarian, wonders about all the fuss over Goosebumps when she's got children asking for books such as Silence of the Lambs and horror novels by Stephen King.

[01:06:15] I don't tell them I don't think they are suitable for elementary school children to read. And that's why they read Goosebumps. That's another thing. So they obviously don't want kids reading like real horror novels, but then they also bar away the ones that are meant for their age demographic. Yeah, read Southampton, Lambs, psychological fucked up shit. Yeah, there are just like there's bad horror movies out there.

[01:06:43] You know, there are, you know, intense horror books. Fear Street is more intense than Goosebumps. But, you know, I didn't really see people shouting to the heavens about how bad those books are. Even if they go, even if they go to the route of what you see of what they mentioned earlier, actually, it's just even some classic fairy tales like Hansel and Gretel or, you know, Rumpelstiltskin or Jacqueline Beanstalk.

[01:07:13] I mean, all of those have underlying horror tones to them to an extent. And some actually to the point of where, you know, the witch is, you know, baking children and eating them by luring them into her candy house. So I'm just saying, you know. People forget, too. Those old fairy tales were made as cautionary tales. They were meant to. Yeah. So, yeah, they were scary, but they were scary for a reason. They were meant to teach children.

[01:07:43] Don't go into strangers' houses. Don't steal. Don't lie. Like all those things. It was meant to teach morals. That was why they were scary. They scared the kids into doing good. Or right from wrong. The classic human touch of teaching you through fear. Be afraid of this person who's going to give you candy. Yeah. So continuing. Except on Halloween.

[01:08:12] We ignore everything on Halloween. Yeah. Anne Cimino, associate professor in elementary education at Cutstown University, theorizes that. Oh, here you go, Bjorn. What was that? Cornell's favorite is Horror Camp Jelly Jam. Oh, yeah. Green Rant did their top 10 Goosebump books, and they had Horror Camp Jelly Jam as their favorite as well. Oh, wow. It's probably my fault. I've hyped that book up now. I guess so.

[01:08:39] When first asked her opinion of the book, she became alarmed after being told they have titles like Welcome to Dead House and Say Cheese and Die. After reading a few, however, she pronounced them innocent. I think the titles are somewhat gory, but the stories aren't. They're fast-moving. They're page-turners. I see why kids like them. Cornell's favorite is Horror Camp Jelly Jam. I like it because they all went to camp and played sports, and I like sports, he said.

[01:09:06] Daniel Hazer, Cornell's mother, has no problem with her son's interest in Goosebumps. At 10 years old, their minds are already thinking bigger things than you want them to, so if they pick up on this, that's fine by me. He likes to read, and that's good. And it's not as if Cornell is obsessed by the books. In fact, he says he usually only reads at night when I have nothing to do. And he has also begun to explore other authors.

[01:09:29] He recently began reading Maria of Redwall by Brian Jacques, a 400-page novel about rats and ferrets going to war that was recommended by a teacher. A Goosebumps bookmark marks his place. So this was originally published on March 27, 1997. So it might have been... Brian, you heard Goosebumps. Yeah, so that's the thing. A kid who's read Goosebumps and got interested, went out to read a 400-page novel.

[01:09:56] Like, that's got to be atonement to something. You feel like saying to those people that were targeting Goosebumps as activists, Yeah! That's right. Goosebumping. Goosebumping. All the kids in 1997, they just go up on stage when all these activists are like, You shouldn't be reading it. They're just like, Yo, Mom! We're Goosebumping! Oh, God. Ugh. That was that.

[01:10:25] So now, we've read through those articles, and as I said, we have a video to watch. This is a recording from C-SPAN of a 1997 hearing at the Anoka Hennepin School District. So we read about them in some of the previous articles. But we're going to see firsthand the sort of arguments that were brought up. Most of these are for people who are against the ban of Goosebumps, but there are people in there who are supportive of it.

[01:10:52] So we're going to go through and hear all the different arguments. This is a condensed version, just for time's sake. I will leave a link to the full unedited recording in the description below for you guys to check out. Get your popcorn ready. Wait, guys, snacks. We need snacks. We need snacks. The committee would like to extend their thanks to you for coming.

[01:11:19] They are interested in hearing what you have to say to listen to your opinions. A book in one of the libraries or another piece of media, be that a video, magazine, whatever. We have a procedure that a community member can follow to question something that we have. Look at that hair. In this case, the citizen did the first thing. She filled out a citizen's request for reconsideration.

[01:11:48] In this case, it was nine Goosebumps books that were housed at Johnsville Elementary School. The school chose a building level committee, which consisted of the principal, two teachers, the media journalists, five citizens. And they made a recommendation on those nine books. And that was to retain them.

[01:12:13] The parent made the decision that she was not in agreement with the building level committee. So at this point, a district level committee has been formed. And that our committee consists of four citizen representatives, a media journalist, a teacher. Classic 90s chili bowl haircut. And a district level administrator.

[01:12:40] The Goosebumps review committee has compiled a procedure to expedite our final hearing in an orderly and fair fashion. All areas that they have to have at Goosebumps review committee. And I'm from Coon Rapids, and I have five children, three of which have gone through an okay school in support of the schools. And my younger two are now at Meadow Creek, the last one just transferring after Christmas vacation.

[01:13:05] My concern is not banning the books because obviously we're not in the public school anymore. But I'm just amazed and appalled that the only way it seems that the majority of you people can get your children to read books is by reading this type of garbage. And I would think with all these educators, with the guidelines that you have for choosing books,

[01:13:31] that I would think from preschool on, you could encourage the children to read better literature than this type of thing. I read this book. They're sick. Boo, go out stage. Like voices in here. The sick gagging sound made me feel like puking. These are just typical. What is Zach with his farts when you need him? My children don't read these books. Not because I told them they couldn't read them.

[01:13:57] But because when they were given these books as a present, just the cover alone was enough to say, oh, yeah, we don't want to read that. But they've been exposed to good literature all their lives. We need to cut that phrase out and send it to Tim. If this is all that an Okahannapin can offer to get children to read, I think it's pretty sad. My name is Cheryl Dang. I'm the rank of Mrs. Minnesota America.

[01:14:23] I speak at elementary schools all over the state encouraging children that true beauty starts in their heart. I believe the Goosebumps series should be taken out of the district's public schools. This discussion isn't about taking away rights to read Goosebumps. Any parent can bring these books home to their children to read either from a public library, from a local bookstore, or a department store. This discussion is about censorship. School libraries must choose which books adorn their limited shelf space.

[01:14:49] This is a spy that has simply asked that this limited space is used for books that are more productive. Elmer Anderson, ABC newspapers. Reading stimulates the mind, and the reader is called upon to create his or her own mental images stimulated by the words. Exactly. Catherine Kirsten says, who the first book opens for the tour through a medieval torture chamber, including repeated invitations to imagine victims' pain, angels, as they lead to death. He's just too busy. He's too busy.

[01:15:17] He's too busy being Scrooge McDuck and, you know, swimming in his money. The granddaughter. Should our children's minds be stimulated with images of death and violence? Should our children be desensitized to violence despite the district's no violence policy? American Psychological Association Report, 1992. Accumulated research clearly demonstrates a connection between viewing violence and aggressive behavior. Principal Barb Winfield, 1993. Something is happening to students that is causing them to act different from the way they did five or six years ago.

[01:15:47] She believes a large part of the problem traces to the unhealthy role models that the media seems to celebrate. Vincent Pirananzu, 1993. I see an increasing tolerance of violence among youth. They see it as normal. I see it as frightening. From an early age, children are conditioned to violence. Saturday morning cartoons, for just one example, show violent action as fun and amusing. Our children are a product of what they see, what they hear, what they imagine. Garbage in, garbage out.

[01:16:15] They act according to how they see the world. We wage campaigns to stop the violence. In fact, the district paid a lot of money and attention to search institutes. I don't know. If I were a kid there doing this kind of stuff that, like... 17 at least out of the 40 assets are not promoted by the content of the Gospels book. In my comments that I pass out to you, I list those 17. If you truly desire to promote non-violent assets, look realistically as to whether or not the Goosebumps series promotes them too. If it does promote them, fine, keep the books.

[01:16:45] If the books don't promote these district-excepting non-violent assets, then make a tough choice in favor of the children's futures. It's more than a choice. Think about the children. Being a parent or educator means making tough choice. Somebody, please. Thank you about the children. We curb our children's appetites for swearing, sex, alcohol, drugs, and violence.

[01:17:12] We must be consistent in telling our children that violence cannot be tolerated in any form. I bet you... I'm my finishing paragraph. Loads of sex and alcohol. Thank you. That's what I read. Books that leave children victimized, afraid, or reinforce violent attitudes aren't appropriate. Remember that time when Cartwright, Beth, and Sabrina, stoked up in the cemetery with Chuck and Steve? We'd be much better served. The district adopted a no-violent policy, and we need to enforce it. Part in the book. Final comment from, again, Catherine Kirsten.

[01:17:39] Our children are caught up in the downward spiral of an ever-more debased popular culture. No harm done, we tell ourselves. We're just letting them choose for themselves. This consoling thought lets us off the hook, making it easy to abdicate our responsibility as parents and educators. I'm afraid, however, that it is wishful thinking. Shock fiction for grade schoolers comes with a price. How much time has this lady got up here?

[01:18:01] Speaking tonight as a concerned parent and a former teacher and a parent in District 11, I feel this issue has been turned into an issue of book banning and censorship, while it in fact began as a challenge to a school and then the district about the district's selection policy on literature. We ban books. That is, we place our district's school... That we place in our district's school library. That's probably why she's a former teacher.

[01:18:30] As we find much of the criteria, as stated by the district... She wasn't very good at what it was. ...regarding Goosebumps books or what has been labeled as shock fiction. I challenge the criteria on usefulness of its content in Goosebumps, the appropriateness of content for students... ...regarding age, or the artistic quality of Goosebumps.

[01:18:54] As it is, our libraries are on a tight budget and have a limited space as to what books are placed on our school shelves. Do we call that censorship? No. I believe these books are not appropriate at the elementary level. And I would also like to address the issue that some of the parents who support Goosebumps... Do you also support the attack of a parent who has brought this issue up? Why does she sound like she's about to cry?

[01:19:23] ...with threatening phone calls... It's probably going to be weird, isn't it? ...harassing and also a bomb threat on her home. Threatening! Instead of edifying and lifting up an author... Maybe she was threatened. ...who is shocking and grabbing our... ...theirly office for sure, I don't know. ...for this next level of shock fiction... ...it is time for parents and educators to just say no to violence and the garbage that is in our school. ...to people live as over trivial things. I agree. Not worth it.

[01:19:53] With things said about the banning and censorship, I think it's unfortunate that these terms are being used. You probably received a call at midnight. When will the creeps meet? ...the issue. She didn't get it. Yeah, as she's wearing it. ...somewhat intimidating. ...and they're side tracking from the issue, which has been stated that it is... ...we're looking at the media guidelines and selecting the best shelf space for our children. I just imagine you, like, there are the co-operative...

[01:20:20] There are a lot of books that are not there for different reasons. ...you've bumped... ...and they have not been banned or censored. ...like... ...yeah! ...I guess I am... ...I'm not happy with the banning and censoring focus on this. ...I equate this... ...with... ...so they say they don't like to focus on banning, but that's what they're coming to you. ...I think in my mind of a school nutritionist who has a problem with kids who will not eat anything... ...on the menu. ...no matter what. They're not interested. ...um...

[01:20:50] ...but suddenly they're very happy with the junk food and candy thing that they've just installed. ...and... ...they open the doors to the cafeteria and they run to the junk food and candy... ...um... ...because they don't like anything else. ...um... ...and everyone says, wonderful! ...they're eating, let them eat this. ...um... ...that's our goal. ...um... ...of course that's ridiculous. ...that does not happen. A school nutritionist would know that it is their job to provide the nutrition. ...um...

[01:21:20] ...also, more importantly... ...um... ...that... ...canning and junk food can be found on a lot of other places... ...um...um...um... ...outside of school for parents who want to indulge in lots of candy and junk food... ...or for those who don't want that at all. ...you know she's got a care in here. ...the school is an institution... ...that should be just as concerned about the nutritional value for the children's ones... ...and... ...I mean this is 1997.

[01:21:49] ...we look to the institution... ...to make those choices... ...um... ...to say we have this line... ...we're giving the nutrition... ...um... ...all... ...you know... ...outside our wall... ...I wish we would've made this a game. We should've took a shot every time she said um... ...um... ...um... ...100%... ...it's my responsibility for my children to not... ...you know... ...if that's our family's choice... ...I'm surprised there was never a Goosebub... ...that would also go along the way... ...that is every parent's responsibility... ...if they want their children to do that... ...that's crazy... ...yeah it is...

[01:22:19] ...in the home... ...the school is a separate issue... ...and I think they should be... ...like the Game Boy game version of like... ...the escape from Berlin games... ...they should be... ...consuming with what their educational values are... ...um... ...I would just say... ...um... ...what would the nutritional content of this... ...if we had nutritional information on the back of this... ...would that be something that we would be... ...heating our children... ...if it was listed on there... ...thank you... ...if we had nutritional information on the back of a Goosebub... ...if it was there...

[01:22:48] ...yeah I wanted to bring attention... ...just quick to what she had said... ...she basically said... ...what if we had like... ...imagine if we had nutritional information on the back of books... ...that is not... ...the same... ...she's equating eating junk food... ...to reading Goosebumps books... ...those are not the same things... ...dude lady... ...you're wearing a Pepsi... ...fucking shirt dude... ...like get out of here man... ...we're talking about nutrition... ...it's a... ...it's just such a...

[01:23:16] ...it's such a weird argument to make... ...is like... ...it's just like eating junk food... ...eating a Butterfinger because of Bart... ...while reading a Goosebumps book... ...like drinking a Pepsi because of this bitch... ...slappy... ...it's like... ...is like... ...a little bit of a... ...this is so weird though... ...or for class assignments because of their content... ...she said... ...good thing Zach wasn't here... ...he probably would have ripped that Pepsi shirt right off... ...but she did not recommend them...

[01:23:46] ...it was at this time that I read a Goosebumps book... ...and agreed with her opinion... ...I also read a few sweet books... ...this is the next reading I've learned... ...I did... ...it's at Christian school... ...needs to say outright... ...no remorse... ...is this what the kids will read... ...after they grow out of the Goosebumps phase... ...I think we can always... ...I'd be more offended by the name of their school... ...than Goosebumps books... ...everything we feed ourselves... ...whether it is food or information... ...that's affect us... ...I mean it's definitely kids... ...if we want healthy bodies... ...then we eat healthy foods... ...if we want healthy minds... ...then it makes sense that we would... ...why do they keep relating food...

[01:24:15] ...to Goosebumps books... ...this is the kids doing that too... ...what is that kid doing in the back... ...in my shirt... ...that set good examples... ...that teach... ...aw, they're in all Minnesota... ...as a school district... ...we have come up with some basic... ...what are they doing? ...are you like doing a sculpture or something? ...or something? ...respect, responsibility... ...compassion, integrity... ...and appreciation of diversity... ...how do you have? ...oh no, he's got a drink... ...that's the dish... ...that's the dish... ...in and out of the classroom... ...including the district's reading program... ...the materials we should be encouraging... ...are children to teach...

[01:24:45] ...to keep promoting... ...what it was... ...can a surge... ...or something... ...it looks green... ...it's said, right? ...that's what I thought... ...it looks like a can of surge... ...and withholding things... ...that we deem as bad... ...is nothing other than love... ...how can we allow our children... ...to do... ...or read materials... ...that are violent... ...or against our morals... ...don't get me in the out... ...to understand... ...when we discipline them... ...and their... ...when they just... ...read what they wrote... ...that they just can't speak... ...from their hearts... ...about this... ...because... ...they don't know... ...what to say about it otherwise...

[01:25:15] ...look at the boys in the back... ...they don't give a... ...quiet... ...f... ...none of these kids do... ...even that guy... ...in the far back... ...on the right... ...who has his arms up... ...on his head... ...he's like... ...god... ...I wish this bitch... ...wouldn't shut up... ...you know what's funny... ...they probably have a... ...to do this... ...right there... ...to your committee... ...I am also in favor... ...of pulling the... ...boosebumps books... ...on the shelves... ...but... ...I think people that defend... ...these books... ...on the basis of censorship... ...and the idea that... ...at least it gets my kids to read...

[01:25:44] ...or my children really like to... ...read them... ...that's okay... ...is a real cop-out... ...for not taking responsibility... ...for the future of our children... ...and their education... ...these books are written... ...that's right... ...our district banners itself... ...as a district with... ...tradition of excellence... ...these books are far from... ...excellent literature... ...they are mediocre... ...media... ...mediocre at best... ...we need to uphold... ...the tradition of excellence... ...to be involved... ...to be involved... ...to be involved...

[01:26:14] ...to be involved... ...is your child... ...if your child said tomorrow... ...all they ever wanted to eat... ...is fast food burgers... ...and they're still... ...equating it to food... ...not to eat a lot of that... ...kind of food... ...because it's not good for them... ...we need to help them eat right... ...in their formative years... ...right? ...this seems to hold... ...the kind of... ...put into their minds... ...I'm also concerned... ...right back to food again... ...there are so many children... ...that like these books... ...for the pure shock effect... ...through the horror and gore... ...I truly believe... ...that it...

[01:26:43] ...resensitizes them... ...in real life... ...these children are still very tender... ...in their formative years... ...in which they are still... ...their kids are tender... ...personalities... ...attitudes... ...and prejudices... ...get the pedo off the stage... ...there's definitely an influence... ...and effect... ...in media... ...in media... ...on us all... ...we try to influence... ...non-violence on our children... ...yet we allow books... ...that glorify violence... ...and gore... ...and somehow becomes... ...appealing to our children... ...elementary school age children... ...are not mature enough...

[01:27:13] ...to make the decisions... ...good or bad... ...for them... ...to read... ...they need... ...the guidance... ...of their schools... ...as well as their parents... ...and challenge the district... ...to continue... ...the tradition... ...of excellence... ...in our education... ...I am Alyssa Stahl... ...and... ...and... ...and... ...and... ...I am against... ...goosebumps books... ...the parents... ...who... ...want... ...goosebumps... ...in their...

[01:27:44] ...libraries... ...they can just... ...go out to stores... ...or public libraries... ...and... ...check them out... ...check them out... ...and... ...and... ...I just... ...I just... ...think that... ...it's not right... ...for... ...some kids to read them... ...because... ...they get... ...they get scared... ...or they... ...start thinking... ...about things... ...and... ...doing them... ...thank you for your time... ...I teach grade 4... ...at Andover Elementary... ...I've been a teacher... ...in the district... ...for...

[01:28:13] ...a long time... ...19 years... ...I was in a band... ...five years ago... ...from the get-go... ...I've always had a problem... ...with the Goosebumps books... ...uh... ...being in our... ...on our library shelves... ...I... ...I... ...I've been around... ...and... ...when... ...the garbage pail... ...kids... ...came out... ...like about 10 years ago... ...and kids would bring those cards... ...to school... ...and... ...and they thrived a great deal... ...on shock... ...and... ...you know... ...all kinds of... ...they were quite shocking... ...and quite morbid...

[01:28:42] ...when I saw the... ...the covers... ...of the Goosebumps books... ...yeah... ...it reminded me... ...of the garbage pail... ...kids cards... ...oh... ...so you're gonna like them... ...either huh... ...you're gonna make a compilation... ...for 10... ...you know... ...at the school that I taught... ...at Evergreen Park... ...they were allowed to bring... ...those cards to school... ...if you would've told me... ...10 years ago... ...I'm gonna look this guy up... ...right now... ...that... ...let's just say... ...that garbage pail... ...producers... ...would've come up... ...with a book series... ...if you would've told me... ...that...

[01:29:12] ...a school district... ...would've endorsed those... ...by having them on the library shelf... ...I wouldn't have believed it... ...and I guess that... ...you know... ...there's been some excellent points... ...made by the people... ...who are in favor of the band... ...actually... ...one of the things... ...I guess that... ...that has been... ...in the forefront... ...of our district... ...has been the anti-violent theme... ...what amazes me... ...is the fact that...

[01:29:42] ...Halloween costumes... ...we discourage... ...not even dare say... ...in the elementary... ...we will... ...in sight violence... ...because we're just like... ...we're gonna beat you up... ...for instance... ...you know... ...a Freddy... ...or something like that... ...that's been a long time... ...it's all in good jest... ...it's all in good jest... ...hold on... ...hold on... ...we at our school... ...have a policy... ...that says that... ...we can't show anything... ...but a G-rated movie...

[01:30:12] ...and I guess the other thing too... ...is the district's push... ...for character education... ...this just... ...the two just don't mesh... ...and I guess that... ...I just wanna say that... ...you know... ...we can't make choices... ...for parents... ...and I realize that... ...and I'm not telling... ...telling people how to parent... ...but I do think that... ...if... ...they see a lot... ...redubing quality... ...in these books... ...which I don't... ...that we as a school district...

[01:30:41] ...should not buy into that... ...and... ...that's all I have to say... ...I don't think they should ban books... ...so... ...okay... ...so that was... ...all the arguments made... ...in favor of the ban... ...everything from here on out... ...is against... ...the idea of the ban... ...and we're starting off with... ...the kids' testimonies... ...which personally... ...I feel is the most important... ...aspect of this all... ...so... ...let's go ahead from here... ...uh... ...no... ...if it's anything we've learned... ...that...

[01:31:10] ...we don't listen to kids... ...and kids are stupid... ...and don't know what they... ...want in life... ...or they need... ...the kids don't know... ...what they want... ...they don't... ...they should be protected at all... ...yeah... ...they don't know what they like... ...they don't know what they like... ...come on now... ...from the libraries... ...because... ... MUELLER... ...um... ...because... ...they're not scary to me... ...and... ...and if other kids think... ...they're scary... ...I don't think they should read them... ...and... ...um... ...and I don't think... ...people should... ...lose... ...um... ...I don't think...

[01:31:37] kids i don't think all kids should lose the right to read the goosebumps books because um and and i don't and they should if their parents don't want them reading them just don't let them read them and they encourage they encourage kids to read and i don't think their parents have them watching tv all the time or playing nintendo and um and if you don't want your kids reading them then just

[01:32:00] tell them not to um pick them up at the library or talk or not buy them okay i'm heather kusky and i think it wouldn't be fair if the goosebump books would be banned because if kids are discussing what they read in a book instead of what they saw on tv it'd be more educational and later on they would read more books and if they're at school and they're reading more books instead of thinking what

[01:32:30] they're going to watch on tv that night it would be better this kid definitely needs goosebumps yeah don't wreck it baby in blaine when i was in fourth fifth and part of sixth grade i read

[01:32:54] goosebumps i enjoyed them and now it's funny to me they give these adults like 20 000 minutes of peace it feels like the first goosebumps i thought it was just okay most of these weird out of the point where they could write i thought they were fun to read and i started buying them i don't have any younger siblings that are just like that kid back there just staying awake by drinking surge reading them and you guys want to know something cool that happens with you

[01:33:18] like reading what's that cheerios sponsors you and put your name on the back of one of their uh their boxes i just got sent it my wife just sent it to me off topic but that's what happens yeah we need to read goosebumps okay it's a beyond freaking cereal box

[01:33:42] that's awesome before they just go there a lot of younger kids check them out at libraries and classrooms and if you took them out of the schools a lot of adults don't have much money to spend or access to a library so they could these are our friends now we're hearing if you if you or your child dislike these books you should contact your child's you can fuck off but other students enjoy them so they

[01:34:09] should be able to read them if you take these books out of the schools they can still turn on the tv every friday and watch the tv show so if they can watch goosebumps on tv i don't see anything wrong with reading them also reading is better and healthier for you and you as parents can control what they watch on tv so you can control what they read in my opinion i think they should be keep goosebumps books in schools

[01:34:36] damn as a student i'm required to read a certain amount of literature when i was younger i highly enjoyed and recommended goosebumps before i started to read goosebumps i had trouble comprehending what i read i'm sure if if you look at statistics many other children started off reading the same way i did after i outgrew goosebumps my level of interest in books was rather high i expanded my selection of books from what from just goosebumps to other inter intellectually stimulating novels i really

[01:35:06] believe that the parents of certain children should have the power to control what their children reads not everyone else's this subject of interest is rather intriguing to some people but not to others they might think it's a waste of time i personally think it's silly to think of taking children's literature away when you encourage them to read uh a lot of kids to read goosebumps and if you take them away because somebody doesn't like them it is no fair because people like them

[01:35:36] and if you don't like them then then don't tell them out they should ban goosebumps books because if kids don't like them or think they're scared they shouldn't be reading them because if they get scared all the other kids that like goosebumps won't be able to go say that's zach i think you should give away the goosebumps folks because then it wouldn't be any fun to

[01:36:03] read them anymore and more people like them then one person has to spoil it i wonder if any of these kids ever look back on this video like i was there defending goosebumps or they were famous yeah like i was famous for a little bit like bro this kid can't even see where the booth hi my name is mark rosine my fourth grade class number be interesting to take a vote on the goosebumps issue i made up a

[01:36:33] survey which asked families to decide whether goosebumps should be kept in school libraries out of 23 families survey 21 families voted to keep goosebumps in the school libraries and two wanted goosebumps to be banned based on this survey it seems to me that goosebumps books are not so scary look at this kid doing his own research man i love that dirty rules yeah but later she's like yeah

[01:37:00] from the time when i was in fourth and fifth you look like a 90s god that's a girl yeah they want to take the books away from us that were you trying to read it look at that dude look at that old school baby i don't think that that's fair too because like the whole looney tunes with the kid maybe no one is pretty boop right there yeah yeah i was gonna say i think that's pretty boop thank you yeah yeah she's another couple of guys she went that's it i just want to say that i am for the

[01:37:31] staying in the schools and um if you've ever read yeah brandy and gobrine they aren't really that scary and um i guess that the whole thing is about the covers but they really i would be curious if any of kids who are in here are going to be a kind of scary but that doesn't really have a scary cover some books just don't have scary covers and the media generalist at mississippi elementary says

[01:38:00] that it doesn't really matter if you read classics or books like goosebumps like either kind of books skip they help you they help your um your speed at reading and your fluency thank you goosebumps books should not be pulled from the libraries i don't see anything wrong with them they're not very scary just full of it was like two kids that were against goosebumps if their parents don't like it

[01:38:28] they shouldn't let their kids read them but you know they're sitting in like the you know those ladies are sitting in like the core of a room there's like five of them they're holding up that for us let's go i mean it's not like the librarians are forcing us to read them but if we do we should have the right all these parents before sharon was a thing americans have a right to freedom of press in other words that the american people are free to print and read what they choose

[01:38:54] also in 1791 totally free press is urged by thomas jefferson who also said our liberty depends on the freedom of the press oh she's going to harvard yeah all the 10 11 12 year olds name these books and we know that it is just make-believe and to us it is not frightening or scary i don't think goosebumps should be taken out of the libraries you know they got like a tally list right there

[01:39:20] let you read what they want but they like watch tv it's just worse the tv shows have swearing and violence and the books don't they just have some suspenseful parts to it but come on what do you really want your kids to be doing when they're bored watching tv shows with swearing and violence or reading what you want i think reading is better it helps exercise your mind and it also can read more and have better interest in books while the tv teaches you to use that man a kid goosebumps are not scary they just have some suspenseful far suspenseful parts if you take goosebumps out of

[01:39:49] the library it won't even be worth going to if the mother thinks they are too scary for her child that doesn't mean we can't read what we want thank you for listening and that's funny like none of the kids have correlated food with goosebumps yeah i think that um goosebumps are not really they don't know what they're talking about they're not making that connection there's school districts i've asked um she was scared to walk down the block she was scared to go in the basement i think it's

[01:40:19] just even with eva i don't think it's what ron's psycho girlfriend dude look at her look at her roll her eyes thank you that's like brown eyes are not at all oh he's got a real 90s cut scary yeah he he had give me he's um he's got the furlong cut oh he's got the furlong cut

[01:40:44] you should be able to read from john he's got the jonathan taylor thomas hair cut going on is appropriate these books are not written for first grade school time when you're when you're trying think they cut his mic remember they're written yes kid definitely reads goosebumps

[01:41:04] when kids come on you gotta kids should be kids should be the first to decide if they're going to these books they know what they like what entertains them they know if they like these books or if they're too scary for them think about your favorite book in february 8th of 97 when you're a kid

[01:41:33] what is it what it probably wasn't educational if not should i think about somebody trying to ban them from school libraries yeah don't really pull off the what kind of books were you reading when you were younger uh my name is colin flugel and i go to sandberg middle school and for third through fifth grade

[01:41:57] i started reading the goosebumps books and then i started reading more gary paulson books and now i'm up in jules verne like 20 000 leagues under the sea and so i say that we should keep them hi my name is kate and i think the goosebump books should be my sister my brother and me and my grandma like to read it when she comes out she's just up there i love my mom i love my dad just a baby yeah just to be

[01:42:26] there and leave them on the shelves in our school libraries and i like to read them and i'm in the process of reading one and i don't think it's that scary and if kids don't want to read it then they don't have to if they do then it's their choice kids aren't forced to read them they just choose to read them if their parents don't let them well then that's their choice sorry i'm sorry i just imagine if

[01:42:55] there was like an australian version of this kind of books i reckon there was it's surely there was something similar here that's cool you know what you gotta ban the goosebump books mate they're just atrocious like i don't know very much it would have been a it would have been a five five every two seconds oh yeah

[01:43:16] do you follow uh luke cook at all i've read at least 25 of our science who's books and i have at least 40 of them my friends and i all agree that they should be kept in the schools even if they even if one parent doesn't as you should or her child should be allowed to read that that is their choice and it it shouldn't that you did all the mail in the books shouldn't be taken away from others hi my name is

[01:43:42] asher piercer i'm from johnson elementary i myself don't i don't i myself don't care for goosebump books but i don't think it's right to ban the books from our media center look at that is my choice or my parents as to what i read or don't that's the appropriate scenario against them we should be able to get them away that's maturity right there my name is travis and i have 43 of the goose bumps books and i've been reading them since the third grade and they aren't scary

[01:44:10] students at johnsville school need a note from parents anyway in an article in the newspaper it said that teenagers would get scared guys we're about to see isaiah out there and the ones that do not read first of all i'd like to compliment all of the students so uh of course that was the uh those were the children's testimonies uh in favor of keeping the books now

[01:44:40] we're moving on to the parents who are in favor of keeping the books so that they had the courage to come forth and talk about something that they believe in that takes a lot of courage for them to do that my name is sharon kusky my daughter heather was up here earlier she's been reading the goosebump series since third grade and now she's in middle school and is still reading those books and has moved on to the more advanced series um fear street in my opinion there's a much more disturbing issue here

[01:45:10] than whether or not to remove the goosebump books from the anoka hennepin school libraries it concerns rights and freedom if you were to recommend removal of these books i feel it would have very serious repercussions which book would be the next one banned and which would be the next one after that and so on the small group of parents supporting this ban the book

[01:45:34] movement need to be reminded that it is their parental responsibility to censor what their children listen to watch and read and not their right to decide what is appropriate or acceptable for my children or any other children in the school district i've read a few of the goosebump books myself and found them to be very entertaining and i consider rl stein to be a very creative author the children in this

[01:46:02] district need to be allowed the opportunity to enjoy these books and their parents need to be given the respect and the freedom to make decisions that are appropriate for their own families before you decide whether or not to fire up the furnace and ban these books please remember the real issue that lies below the surface and that being freedom and the last comment i'd like to make freedom regarding one

[01:46:26] that a student made um it's like yes it's freedom so a child shall lead them and one of these students came forward and brought up the constitutional rights that we have and i'd like for you to remember that when you make your decision and remind the other parents in the room that are behind this movement that we are talking about constitutional rights here thank you mother of the year this box has increased my

[01:46:50] child's reading ability the fourth graders have a squirt time as well as a reading time at home my son has put in one hour every night for the past three months or so since school has started with a reading program just reading the rl stein books i feel if you pull these rl stein books from the media center this the kids will not have that well of a reading or squirt time they will choose other activities

[01:47:20] and i just think that if somebody can't handle the books then it's they ought to be the ones to pull back they have to say i can't handle it i don't want to read it they are not being made to read these books our son enjoys them and he's gotten the kindergartner involved in just reading them to him i've had no problems at home with the books thank you if the goosebumps are removed from the library

[01:47:45] shelves because they're scary will often like edgar ellen pole be far behind he would be amazed to learn that his quote the raven nevermore was a prophecy of his own work those who would remove goosebumps deny that their action is censorship but to paraphrase william shakespeare and skunk by any other name would spell his fault the real scare in this controversy is that we have teachers who can

[01:48:14] listen to children and parents give convincing testimony to the merits of these stories and ignore it in favor of their own views that's like he's about to cry i'd be crying because i'd be so obviously i'd be like or he's got like a computer voice

[01:48:48] my name is shirley emmert i'm the media generalist at sand creek elementary in coon rapids and university avenue avenue avenue elementary in blaine i would not like to see these books banned from our media centers as a media generalist it is my responsibility to see that there is a free flow of information and choices for our students and our staff to use in teaching and at the same time i recognize the parental

[01:49:14] right to make these choices for their own children if we would look at the work skills that were required in the job market as we began this century and compare those to the skills that will be required as we enter this next century reading has become more important than ever and if the goosebumps books are a tool to grab some of our students and help them discover the joy of reading that i certainly think

[01:49:41] that that opportunity should be kept for them i have noticed that the interest in the goosebumps books is beginning to decline in my media centers there are now a few copies on the shelves as the students come into the media center so i think that as with many pieces of literature this will cycle and there'll be another uh book or series that comes along that will grab the interest of our students

[01:50:05] i also have a boy wizard literally can't hear our foreshadowing a uh wizard uh this whole process is a very good demonstration of democracy and action and i'm happy that we have this process in place and we can carry it through to make a final decision thank you my name is bill garrison my daughter goes to franklin i'm unable to read to her for the simple fact that i'm a single parent and i had no time to read for her so

[01:50:34] with these goosebumps collection that i have here which i have not seen one tonight encourage her to read and if they're taken out the shelves then i'm afraid she's going to lose interest to read and going to end up like me without a decent job because of no education as long as she wants to read these books i encourage her

[01:50:58] and i feel that the book should be left where they are where they are for the kids choice not for the parents to make up that the kid if the kids choose to read them more power to them the parents don't choose to have them in the home more power to like she's got a copy of camp nightmare there good choice thank you my name is joe thomas i would have thought that this meeting should never have taken place but obviously most people don't agree or we're gonna be sure uh i was gonna say it's that i'm gonna rock

[01:51:26] one of the books in the library there should never be a discussion about removing anything from somebody's choice uh there's really two issues i want to talk to tonight one that i have not seen uh is the issue of some type of control i have a third grader in johnsville who while in first grade came home very upset he is an advanced reader and was not allowed to choose chapter books from the library

[01:51:54] that was inappropriate for his age group it took my wife calling both mr murray and talking to the media coordinator before he was allowed to go what was beyond uh the approved or accepted level for his grades the other issue is that uh as a student i was very proud of what my parents taught me about not judging

[01:52:22] others and taking responsibility for myself it's not somebody else's job to do that as a parent i've always adopted that and thought that you know best uh what was good for your students uh if that's incorrect if that's a wrong assumption i'd certainly like to know because i've only got about 18 more years before my students graduate and i don't think in that time i can unlearn what you

[01:52:51] have taught your children and teach them what i think is right please keep these books thank you i wasn't really sure what i was going to say tonight uh the children pretty much said it boils down to freedom of choice uh the book is a fantasy if the kids can't discern it's a fantasy the parents aren't doing their job and yeah letting them know that that's all it is is a fantasy we watch tv we see things that

[01:53:18] aren't real these books are uh great learning i read my first one tonight here it's fun they're fun they're easy to read they teach kids reading skills and to take them on the show's be wrong and we go back the kids said it so well with freedom of choice it's the choice of the parents and the kid not of somebody else to make for them hi my name is sherry scarborough i'd like to congratulate the children that have participated here tonight to express their own opinions and to make their own choices

[01:53:48] we do encourage our children to read we encourage our children to make their own informed choices we cannot teach preference what materials we each choose to enjoy is an inherent individual freedom certainly we have to concern ourselves with the welfare of our children i prefer that the children be taught to choose for themselves what is appropriate i don't want young adults coming to me at 18 19 20 years old

[01:54:13] and saying limit my choices so i can make a decision mom they need to be prepared by then and i think we have an obligation as parents and educators uh to teach children right from wrong to teach children a sense of responsibility particularly to themselves we need to teach them by what we have as our own home cultures and our own personal mores and use those things to influence our children's choices and help

[01:54:42] them to understand what's right for them children by limiting their choices we're doing them the disservice by not preparing them to make choices in the adult world um bingo the books on the shelf allows the children the freedom of opportunity of choice i'm in favor of either leaving the books on the shelf letting the children choose what to read what not to read or leaving the books on the shelf and

[01:55:08] requiring some kind of denial slip if a parent doesn't want their child exposed to certain material they can certainly notify the school i think that would be the lesser of two evils rather than a permission slip use a an elimination um someone mentioned rl stein being a fad um i don't know if he's so much a fad or he just can't write fast enough to keep up with the readers um my kids just about read everything he's written um in one one form or another i appreciate your time and thank you for

[01:55:36] your concern over this issue as a single mom and i can be involved with what my kids read or do i feel that some of the books um are appropriate for my children i have three children ages 10 looks like and eight um 20. i have read some of the books and i don't feel that the books are scary in fact i'm glad that my children have found something that that can hold their interest in reading i have thought with two of my daughters to find anything that will hold their interest to read my oldest

[01:56:03] daughter had the hardest time with reading because she cannot comprehend even the most simplest words it could be it took her over two years in school early 20s before it started making sense to her not to have elementary school kids i know um she and my other children would not be as reading much as they do she could if she had them like but she was 16. and also the principal in sand creek elementary

[01:56:27] if this book is banned from the libraries i and my children feel that the book um that is read by many children that's a that's a different meeting okay interest of the children she has to attend in the library this is about goosebumps many families cannot afford to buy books in the stores and do not have time to check them out in the library in the public libraries so therefore that i feel that they should be left in the school libraries thank you one of the first benefits i noticed as a parent from goosebumps

[01:56:55] was the quiet trip i had to minneapolis those like rods from monsters inc in the back seat fighting sitting and reading and it was really enjoyable and this is the point of why i want to see the goosebump books always watching you as i told many parents i was always watching them if it weren't for the goosebumps books my children wouldn't be reading okay okay first hit the school library shelves or as i was

[01:57:21] working in our school library helping catalog some books i talked to the librarian in charge and said what's your feeling on these books because i i like professionals and i respect their opinions on something and she said the important thing about these books is that the children are reading them when i first read in the paper that these books could possibly be banned i was appalled because banning books goes against everything that i hold dear and as i've sat here tonight i'm not as appalled by the

[01:57:49] initiation of the action because it's been a valuable learning tool for our children i took four kids from our church tonight and as i was telling our youth director of our choir that i was taking these children out it wasn't oh no we're not going to have kids at practice it's good let them have their say and our children have had their say tonight what i ask is that you listen to what was important to them that the children who came home like my daughter and said mom i want to go speak at that

[01:58:15] hearing it meant enough to them to get up and talk in a bunch in front of a room full of adults to say how important these books were and i ask you to take that into consideration looking for the kids that should be wearing like hi i'm kate wright jinko jeans i am mother of four children not shirts and they all love the goosebumps books and i really wasn't concerned until i saw it on the news that it was an issue as to whether they were good or bad i challenged my husband and both of us sat

[01:58:42] down and read one front to back and neither of us saw a reason for the concern they weren't scary in a book for a book is something that you choose to pick up and choose to open and you can choose to put it down uh was it go eat worms i feel bad for whoever had to read that version then i would be because they're a little graphic uh but everybody's imagination imagines things differently when you

[01:59:08] hear the words a monster with yellow bulging eyes every single one of you every single person in this room gets a different picture in their mind if a child gets something so scary that he can't handle it then definitely that parent's responsibility to guide that child through what they should or should not be allowed to handle is their responsibility it's not their responsibility to tell me what my children are allowed to read little monster everybody accepted that responsibility when they

[01:59:36] decided to have children that you take care of your own children and let me take care of mine uh my husband also ran into a display at the library that had a whole list of award-winning books these were books that were given awards the titles shape changer uh summer of the bone pile monster alien

[01:59:58] secrets uh deer stand red dirt jesse red cat the summer i shrank my grandmother devil's arithmetic now these are award-winning books i haven't read them uh but i think if we're going to ban on covers and scary things that these need to be considered as well just fall in line and get rid of everything that stimulates imagination and we'll see what kind of children we really do raise damn hi i've been a

[02:00:27] reading volunteer another mic drop for six years now i work with active leaders who have problems with comprehension that's the thing one of the reasons they have this parents who are against the band are not very like they can't they read something and they can't make it until maybe i can't see the right moment one of the things that the muslim books have done for these children has made them

[02:00:51] see pictures and most of the kids i work with they read them for a short period of time and they move on some of the classics are very graphic maybe it's february and show they got the christmas sweater even i'd say right along the lines of some of the stuff that arl stein puts into his books but those books are okay because they're class i say that as i wear halloween stuff year round pardon me when i was in school which was a long time ago i guess i have no

[02:01:18] i really think i like to stand on here students can't handle it it's the parents responsibility to say no you're not going to read that and no you're not they pull them from the shelves in the libraries you're not you're going to see a lot of kids stop reading granted they should be only up there just to keep the schemes reading but it does promote look at that sweater bro good reading habits that the children do move on to other books and lots lots

[02:01:44] of times in a very short period of time i think it would be a real shame that you do to do those with goodwill every day snowflake titties thank you okay that is what you read a goosebump book before tonight so i have some idea about the content unfortunately i did not but my observations really don't require me to uh have read the book my son travis spoke earlier i don't do evening but he's uh the fifth

[02:02:11] grader at johnsville he's read 43 books since third grade of of goosebumps and travis reads a lot of books besides goosebumps uh in third grade of my three sons travis was the most passive uh now in fifth grade he is the most passive um i think with our kids uh the essential groundwork has been laid by this time

[02:02:40] and i don't think these books are going to turn them into mean violent kids i think uh another issue is that we're we're not talking about required reading uh we're talking about books in the library and whether a kid reads it or not it's purely up at his his or her discretion i think we need to give our kids some credit

[02:03:06] uh for understanding that these books are fiction you know kids kids are kids are sharp my last concern is that uh um this began with one parent's um concern or alarm and uh while i respect that parents uh point of view from from how this has escalated

[02:03:33] uh we could set a dangerous precedent if these books are pulled off the shelf whereby uh any parent who is upset by anything is going to make an issue of it and uh it could be opening a pandora's box of uh all kinds of problems first of all as it in fact did that i'm appalled or other verbal acts of violence were taken against the

[02:04:00] parent who brought up this issue i do not believe that anyone in this room supports this kind of behavior every parent in this room loves their children and is concerned with their morals and values this just shows the distinction between crazy parents and regular parents they may learn a new word a new concept increase reading fluency and it also creates a love of reading there are many different types of books available some are very educational and others are meant for

[02:04:27] anything you're not going to read an accomplishment has occurred i just finished the last two books is still here and funny and entertaining i can see why the books appeal to young boys especially i recommend the books not be restricted from any media center in the nokia district oh never mind it almost looked like that kid who had the surgery was just like his head was down table he's done speakers here so i would like to thank everyone for coming tonight

[02:04:57] uh i would also like you to know that all the committee members have read all the books in question and we expect to meet early in february and make a decision sometime in february or recommendation to the superintendent i should correct that last monday the reevaluation committee recommended that all nine of the challenged books be retained based on their appropriateness usefulness and the final decision to keep the books moves on to the school board get out of here karen

[02:05:27] in your face get out of here lemon head so essentially uh what ended up happening of course is that uh the nine challenge books as they said that were brought up for discussion initially uh were retained they did not get restricted they were kept in the libraries as for the entire book series it also ended up being uh decided that they would be kept in the schools so the entire issue again say cheese and die

[02:05:53] i i don't think it was the same ones that we read in that one article but um i believe one of them was welcome to camp nightmare um i i'm not entirely certain if i end up though we were just a few that we saw from this video it really it could have been any of them it really was held up one of them it could have been any of them

[02:06:15] evil thing but the uh the fact of the matter is that the uh the the issue ended up getting put to bed and it ended up being voted in favor of the goosebumps books so the books ended up at least in the anoka hennepin school district were kept and uh the parents who were in support of the band did not get their wish so um and of course you know by the time

[02:06:41] meanwhile here where i lived this wasn't even an issue it was never brought up well i think as we saw a lot tonight uh a lot of this was very much in minnesota um and i'm willing to bet that the one parent's concern is what led to a flurry of other places in the district getting involved but uh it had to be a little bit somewhere here i just i just imagine it was like we were many other isolated incidents of

[02:07:05] this sort of thing happening but as far as i'm concerned uh it didn't get to a widespread um sort of effect and many people probably would have never even known i have exorcised the demons has been cleared with all of this said and done and all of this stuff that we've looked at tonight i think it's very

[02:07:31] clear that uh the goosebumps books while very popular did have its detractors and i feel like after a while you know parents had to just kind of give in to the fact that kids are going to like these books no matter what and there's really nothing they can do about it so might as well just let the kids enjoy and you we've we turned out great right

[02:07:56] but um i guess to close things out uh what do you guys you know after seeing and hearing all that what do you guys uh think of the whole situation now after the fact uh tyler let's of course begin with you yeah i think the whole thing is absurd i think uh you know it what i love about it watching that i think it just brings perspective of hearing obviously both sides but you know i think what was

[02:08:24] it 50 minutes long and five minutes of it seven minutes of it was the crybaby parents and then the other 45 was literally all the kids and the parents that were normal and like maybe you're just not parenting right or obviously you're just out of your mind you know and i think it's a society as a whole you know even around the world you know i think it really isn't even just about anything other

[02:08:50] than common sense right i mean like if you really like read a book like like she said that's what i loved it's the superintendent lady was like at the end she's like we read all the books in question you know which is cool because i think if you're going to have that kind of thing like yeah you definitely should and you know obviously it was like they're sitting over there giggling and laughing you know almost the whole time you know and it's like to them it's probably a little

[02:09:11] commonish and i don't know i whether satanic panic golden eye 007 stuff like this like you know my daughter's 12 and reads twilight you know what i mean like is it the most appropriate book for her no but is she mature enough and dude she reads four or five hundred page books like she's very comprehensive and like knows how to read right so if that's up her alley and of course it's fantasy she can

[02:09:37] distinguish a werewolf from a real person you know is she walking around you know pretending to be a vampire werewolf no you know so i guess you know it's just it's just it's asinine really but anyway well what do you guys think yeah nick let's start with you man oh i'm in the same boat you know i i think we said at the beginning of this that and they even said it in that video too which you know

[02:10:05] i've never watched the whole video i have seen parts of it um but they said in the video too you know it comes down to the parents you know what do you think your kid can handle i mean because every kid's different you have to look at this from an individual standpoint i mean there's not what's rated something for this person could be rated something totally different for the next person like even that guy who was like oh we only rated g do you realize what was rated g back then

[02:10:31] compared to now i mean that's where you kind of i mean yeah it's ridiculous so the the fact that that was even said i just was like i wanted it so bad if i was there i'd have been like dude and like i can give you probably 10 things right now that's worse than a goosebumps book that's rated g so i don't know it's it is ridiculous it's it's dumb and we still have these

[02:10:56] you know stupid things today i mean of things they're saying are bad you know and uh when it comes to songs or books or anything else you know like uh baby it's cold outside uh well we've got a band that you know that's rapey but here's wop you know it's like are you for real like okay so it is what it is i mean but it just i hate that saying but sometimes it's fitting

[02:11:24] so you know you just gotta roll with it and show people it's not as bad as you think it is yeah exactly just reel it out there crank that sucker to 11. yoren what about you yeah pretty much what you guys said it doesn't matter what it is you're gonna offend people depending like you know whether it's a book or movie or or a song i mean i sort of think

[02:11:53] just the other day that skater boy by avril lavigne is now offensive because of one line he was a boy she was a girl that's offensive now everything's it's just like you know so obviously in the 90s yeah they saw goosebumps as evil and satanic but then normal people like us but like no my kids are reading and that's all i wanted them to do and now they're reading so it's great well in the fact

[02:12:21] it's not like they're reading 50 shades of gray at that age or something you know what i mean like again different levels that go from horror to reading to whatever they're different levels well and nick you said it perfectly earlier about parenting like you know obviously like we're pretty it seems like open-ended parents you know and i think i like to let my kids experience life a little bit you know obviously there's lines and morals there but i think i focus more as a parent just like i felt like

[02:12:48] the 45 minutes of that was common sense those were common sensual parents you know like they were teaching their kids common sense and if you can't teach or if you're so scared to teach your kid common sense and have backlash from them then you're either overbearing or you're doing too much or you're not doing enough and you'll know very quickly by the reaction or the consequence of that

[02:13:13] but you know that's i mean every parent i mean there's been moments where i've made that poor judgment sometimes you know like we all do like but that's even as a parent that's how you learn right so if you're a parent that's completely all the time scared like that or whatever if it's not religious then you're clearly just an asshole i mean that's really what it boils down to you know i mean and i

[02:13:37] try not to judge people by all means but like you know when you start relating goosebumps books the ages from 8 to 11 to food like we got a problem you know like that's that was weird well and clearly i mean a lot of those who were being such you know detractors of the series were very much judgmental of the parents who were in favor of letting their kids read it so it's like it's an eye for an eye

[02:14:04] it's like look we i i'm not a parent i don't have kids so i don't i'm not experienced in that kind of stuff but the fact of the matter is you don't need to be a parent to know that kids deserve the right to choose their own paths the parents should be the one that are guiding them on the right path but to control your kids at such a level that you you you bar them from things that are meant to

[02:14:31] that that are meant to really stimulate their imagination i think that one parent said it best is like you know the one one minute you're taking away one thing then what's next like you're just gonna if we are okay with taking away things that stimulate the imagination of children it's just like it's gonna be a domino effect and you're gonna take away more and more and more things until all of a sudden everything in the world is sanitized safe and non-threatening and that's not what the

[02:15:00] world is you're done you know to add to that too you know growing up i think we all experienced like burger king kids right mcdonald's you know all the fast food places like you know you actually when i get their sanitary issues that were there back then you know and obviously like with tech it wasn't as prominent as it is today you know so they started taking play sets out of you know restaurants and

[02:15:27] all that and but go just go type 80s 90s like taco bell mcdonald's not saying fast food's great for you or anything like that but go look at it and then go look at them now like this this generation and i hate talking like this but they have just completely wiped out like anything creative anything that's different any imaginative feels so cool and then what's different is something that's

[02:15:55] culturally relevant but it's like well what that's not like that's geared towards kids that's geared towards a whole a whole generation of kids like you know i just don't understand it's like you know and then their their rebuttal will always be well kids today are just on technology more and they don't want to go out it's like that's not true i make my kids go outside all the time you that's not something that has to be done you can be a parent and stimulate your kids into doing things that are

[02:16:23] not technology related literally it's it all comes back to the parents and i feel many who were so for this ban were were parents who were just like not willing to accept the responsibility that they're not doing their job as parents because any self-respecting parent is going to teach their kid that what is fiction and what is real what is reality a kid knows most kids know that fiction books are

[02:16:53] fiction no matter what is in a book no matter how scary a scene is it's not real it's not real you can close it at any time you can put it away you cannot even interact with it at all so the fact that one parent has to make the decision for hundreds thousands of kids is incredibly selfish and look again

[02:17:18] this is not to you know we clown on these people all right but people are people are entitled to their own opinions if parents don't want their kids reading a certain book or seeing a certain show that's fine that that's their own discretion but that is their parenting for their children not their parenting for all children that's not how the world works it's not how the world should work

[02:17:42] now i will say i'm gonna be very judgmental seeing 10 year olds and a terrifier movie just saying yeah no and we and we talked about that at length too like you know there are things in the world that you as a parent have to step in and say no but goosebumps a book series for children with non really non-threatening morals monsters that are scary but not you know gory or intense is not

[02:18:11] threatening to a generation and that still pertains to today kids those kids are adults now and i can guarantee you that all of those kids still probably feel the same way all those kids who spoke highly goosebumps probably still feel the same way you woke to them you're like what did you think of those books they'd be like i love those books i guarantee it we're testaments to that too because we grew up with these books and we still love them now and it's just because they were engaging stories

[02:18:42] that stimulated our imagination they made us want to read they made us want to write they made us want to explore the genre and just become more media literate that's all there is to it and goosebumps it was not the only thing that was up for public scrutiny there were many many things especially in the 90s that were under public scrutiny but uh this just seemed like one that was 100 unwarranted

[02:19:08] unnecessary and more so just completely detrimental in every way i can't imagine what would have happened if those parents got their way if goosebumps was banned like i could not imagine what kind of effect that would have um which is why i'm so glad that you know well you got to figure that in that effect it would be if they got a ban there then other schools will look at it like oh if they thought it was worth

[02:19:34] banning maybe we should look into it or a parent who watches that sees it successful there then they can bring that to their school committee saying hey look minnesota banned it here so you know are we not going to follow suit uh you know do we not what love our children as much as minnesota people do and unfortunately so that's how it goes have not only not gone away but honestly i feel have been

[02:19:59] amplified especially with social media um those kinds of mentalities at least here in the 90s yeah it was kept to that community imagine if this was happening now there'd be hashtags and online movements and it would be everywhere i i can guarantee you so but thankfully we live in a timeline where that didn't happen and the goosebumps books you know live on and they're remembered fondly for it so

[02:20:27] i guess that's the the biggest takeaway from it all is that we won we won but uh if any of you guys at home want to check out that full unedited hearing i'll leave a description uh link in the description for you guys to check out you can check out the full 90 minute video i will also leave a watch on me another well yeah i will also leave a link to another

[02:20:57] what tyler will do um from uh 1989 which was actually related to another rl stein book the nightmare hour um and actually i believe rl stein was actually in attendance for so uh that one i feel it was very interesting to watch so i'll leave links to both those videos in the description below so check them out but that is going to do it for tonight's episode of the goosebumps crew podcast tyler thank you very much for joining us again and talking some goosebumps so it's awesome to get your

[02:21:23] input on this whole situation always always i always feel part of you guys i appreciate it thank you absolutely man as we always say you know you're just one of the many people we consider part of the extended goosebumps crew family so we're very glad to have you thank you so much for joining us i'll of course leave the link to tyler's social media is in the description below check him out if you haven't already seriously check him out he's an awesome guy deserves the support and of course check out bjorn and nick at goosebumps sauce fan and sean respectively on their social

[02:21:51] medias and their youtubes if you like today's episode make sure you have a like and comment subscribe to us on youtube follow us on our audio platforms and social medias all those links are in the description below so check them out we'll have another episode for you guys next week but until then this has been the goosebumps crew podcast and from all of us here we want to wish you all as always to take care stay safe and have a very scary day