Down The Middle Episode 80: Make It Make Sense

[00:00:10] Welcome everybody to this week's episode of Down The Middle.

[00:00:14] You're gonna do something a little bit different because well, there's two reasons why.

[00:00:19] Firstly, this podcast is brought to you by our friends at the leading the band podcast and by TrophySmac.com.

[00:00:27] More on both of them here in a moment but the reason we're doing some a little bit different will the reasons.

[00:00:33] One, oh god I've been so busy.

[00:00:38] I'll be honest, I haven't watched any wrestling.

[00:00:40] I mean none, zilch, not a watch or out there's a watch.

[00:00:51] Evan, we watch what?

[00:00:54] I think all over and after we lose the second one, then the second one was all out.

[00:01:01] Evan, we watch what?

[00:01:03] But then the second reason is, wow, I'm so much louder than you are.

[00:01:10] One second.

[00:01:12] Yeah, give me the second reason.

[00:01:15] He is my one.

[00:01:17] I have a new microphone and it's very good but all we're sorting this out, how about now?

[00:01:27] It's very good but we're sorting this out, how about you know, my microphone is very good.

[00:01:38] I sound the same, so.

[00:01:41] Yeah, it's a pretty loud.

[00:01:42] It's a good sound.

[00:01:44] But something's in that I sound pretty low.

[00:01:47] I sound the same.

[00:01:51] So let me see here.

[00:01:54] No you're at maximum volume.

[00:01:57] Let me turn myself down to smidge maybe.

[00:02:02] Try this now.

[00:02:09] Sorry folks, we'll get with it.

[00:02:19] Alright, throw me a little bit of a scheme.

[00:02:20] What I don't want to happen is I don't want them to have to like turn the volume up to hear you but then I break their rear drums.

[00:02:35] Okay, there we go.

[00:02:39] That's much better.

[00:02:41] Okay, apparently I wish just to out anyway.

[00:02:44] The other reason was I heard on the gym coronat experience.

[00:02:47] Well, I heard two very interesting things on the gym coronat experience.

[00:02:55] Or was it the drive through? It was one of them.

[00:02:59] But they play some audio clips of Dave Meltzer and Brian Alvarez arguing over whether or not it was stupid.

[00:03:08] So apparently, because again, I didn't watch any wrestling trying to get back into a routine but we keep adding crap for me to do.

[00:03:15] Because I'm an idiot.

[00:03:17] But apparently, if our sheet had got the title shot against Mercedes it all out and.

[00:03:23] That paper view was on Sunday. So apparently on collision that week, it's our sheet of had a match against Diana Carazzo.

[00:03:35] And Alvarez and I apparently, yeah, like full disclosure, I agree with Brian Alvarez on this one.

[00:03:42] But I do also recognize that Dave is technically right in that this is more common than it should be today.

[00:03:49] But Dave Meltzer also often makes the argument that like, well, they do it all the time as though that's valid justification for doing something dumb.

[00:03:59] But I digress.

[00:04:00] Alvarez is maintaining and I agree with them because my whole thing is it's like, it does so there's a couple reasons why this is a bad idea one.

[00:04:09] If if wrestling is real, which is how you have to view it when you're booking it, otherwise the show's going to be crap, Tony.

[00:04:22] You have to think about it as though if somebody in the UFC for example, if somebody's going for a title.

[00:04:30] Would you have seen us in half events like this? But let's assume they did.

[00:04:35] If somebody's going for any title in the UFC.

[00:04:40] Would you take a fight the night before?

[00:04:45] That's ridiculous. Why would you do such thing when lose or draw?

[00:04:49] When lose or draw, it's setting you up to lose for now I could see maybe a squash match, but then my mind goes to what's the point because again free gaxon has happened and it's not even entertaining for the viewers because on a squash match, you know who you know who's going to win.

[00:05:06] But here's conversely, this is the wrestling side of it. When you have a match like that before she does going for the title, the only exception to this would be if you needed to book your way out of a predicament like let's say that she had a freak accident or injury or medical condition and you need to write her out.

[00:05:24] And I guess you want to because and I guess you want to instead of just saying, hey, she just suffered an injury, she needs a replacement.

[00:05:32] Like or maybe this is part of your story line.

[00:05:36] Is okay, the storyline has to do with the fact that Parazo like maybe you want to change it to a three way so you have a match with sheet and Parazo and Parazo beats her logically that would tell you it's like well, Parazo should be in the match, but she do.

[00:05:53] One, whatever contest she needed to get into said match so then you can make it a three way barring that this makes zero sense.

[00:06:03] Because why would you fight before a title fight?

[00:06:10] Yeah, just what makes sense.

[00:06:11] Just logically speaking, but the tape is maintaining is like they do it all the time and however else it's like.

[00:06:17] Name me one time they've done it on Smackdown in the last year and I'm like, well, I'm not going to go back and look but I'll I'll take your word for it.

[00:06:25] I'm pretty sure they wouldn't do something that stupid on in WWE today, but.

[00:06:33] I digress they might do something on Raw, but that's a week before and usually it's not going to be like.

[00:06:38] It's not going to be a competitive singles match, it might be a tag.

[00:06:43] Yeah, yeah, most of these is usually be like a tag text someone.

[00:06:47] Yeah, yeah. So what that made me start thinking because unfortunately this is what I do.

[00:06:57] As I started thinking, I'm like, you know what if you even because I'm not even going to go back to the territory days because I wasn't watching everything.

[00:07:04] I know about the territories or stuff that I've read or seen you know decades removed.

[00:07:10] So I'm going to go back to even when I started watching wrestling.

[00:07:13] Well, I wasn't even alive during the bulk of the territories. So by the time I was born, I'm being.

[00:07:20] By the time I was born, Vince McMahon had already pretty well taken it over.

[00:07:25] In 1987, so I'm not sure what territories were still around but it was at the tail end if not dead already.

[00:07:33] But even going back to the ruthless aggression error like again, compared to the territories there probably things that

[00:07:40] I can tell you there were things WWE was doing that really didn't make much sense compared to.

[00:07:49] Wow, I had the word and I lost it. What I'm trying to say is even from the ruthless aggression error to today,

[00:07:56] there's a lot of stuff that's happening inside and outside of the ring that just doesn't make any sense.

[00:08:01] And it's because it's because it's no longer wrestling's no longer treated seriously.

[00:08:10] Even, like here's the thing and everybody always kind of pokes fun.

[00:08:14] When I say this it's like listen, we know what's all I'm not going to say fake but we know what's all scripted.

[00:08:20] We know what's all predetermined.

[00:08:23] But it's the same way I always put it back to comedy.

[00:08:29] Like when you're doing comedy in a movie or stand up or whatever,

[00:08:32] it's only funny when you commit to the bit and you treat the bit as seriously as someone who is actually happening to.

[00:08:42] Otherwise because if you do the wink wink you're in on the joke, it's very rare that's actually funny.

[00:08:49] You know what I'm saying?

[00:08:51] Like deadpool might be the exception but even then Ryan Reynolds was sitting to the bed.

[00:08:57] He's still committing to the bit and it's only funny when deadpool does it because deadpool is the only one who's breaking the fourth wall.

[00:09:05] Everybody else is treating it seriously.

[00:09:09] Exactly.

[00:09:10] Which is why you know when you have one comedy wrestling character, it can work.

[00:09:16] I'm not going to say it hasn't worked before because it has.

[00:09:19] But when half your roster is comedy.

[00:09:25] Yeah, yeah, we're.

[00:09:28] They get mixed or something you know.

[00:09:30] Well the problem is is there's so many things that.

[00:09:35] Wrestling modern wrestling is doing particularly AEW and I'm only picking on AEW because they're the biggest stage that are doing this all the time.

[00:09:43] I mean literally every episode of their TV show somebody's doing it like I'll argue this if Orange Cassidy or Dan Housing or Colt Cabana or.

[00:09:53] The books even nowadays are appearing on television they're doing a comedy bit.

[00:09:59] Somehow some way.

[00:10:05] I'm trying to word this properly.

[00:10:11] So I get I guess what I'm really getting at is wrestling's not taking seriously anymore.

[00:10:16] Even by the people creating it and that's the problem.

[00:10:18] It's one thing for the audience to kind of be in on the joke but if it's still treated seriously, we can all have fun.

[00:10:24] We can suspend our disbelief and we can even share a laugh or two occasionally.

[00:10:30] But when the people writing the show because let's be real they're not booking when the people writing the show are joking about it.

[00:10:40] It can't be good.

[00:10:44] You know what I mean when they're not taking it seriously, it can't be good.

[00:10:48] Oh, who was it? Who was it that said?

[00:10:51] Yeah, this was so long ago.

[00:10:55] Like it's just pro wrestling man that kind of thing.

[00:10:58] It's like that's the problem.

[00:11:02] That's the problem you're not I think and you know what I think it is honestly I think it's people are afraid of being made fun of.

[00:11:11] I really do because wrestling is still kind of looked down upon.

[00:11:16] But it's not it's not like as people don't take a serious.

[00:11:20] Yeah, it's like a joke or you still wash wrestling.

[00:11:25] Yeah, and I always say my favorite thing those when people were like we know it's fake right?

[00:11:29] I'm like, well okay, do you like this is easy to like the mission impossible or I say the fast in the furious.

[00:11:36] You like the fast in furious franchise? Yeah.

[00:11:38] Yeah, I'm like I watch Vin Diesel lift up a car with one arm that's not real.

[00:11:47] And wrestling is more real than that because I'm sorry John Cena actually did have to lift up big show even though big show helped them.

[00:11:57] Of 400 pounds.

[00:12:00] Still still ways still ways for 500 pounds.

[00:12:03] Like that's still an incredible feat of strength that hardly anybody can do.

[00:12:10] The number of human beings that can actually do that is fuel and far between.

[00:12:18] Yeah, I consider wrestling they'll difference than I wash their movie.

[00:12:21] You know, I consider it even even more different like more legitimate because as so many people have seen you know.

[00:12:28] Yeah, because in a movie you get multiple takes you have stuntmen you have you know crash mats, you know this that and the other.

[00:12:35] And wrestling you get one shot and if you if you screw up the whole audience is going to see you.

[00:12:40] You fucked up or that's your best case scenario your worst case scenario is you get injured or killed.

[00:12:47] Which has happened before now I'm not it's a different it's a different animal from competitive combat sports it is it true I don't think anybody.

[00:12:57] Is actually going to make the case that they're on the same level but it's a different kind of athleticism it's a different kind of pain it's a different kind of grite.

[00:13:12] But you have to you have to present it as though they're the same you know what I mean wrestling in my estimation works best when you treat it like a fight league where the rules.

[00:13:23] It's exactly what it sounds like like they used to do you know back in the day you get an amateur wrestler and the story would be.

[00:13:32] This is how you would make somebody like her dangle be able to lose in per wrestling it's like well he's a he's an Olympic gold medalist and he's seen as prime it's like yeah but the rules and pro wrestling are much more liberal.

[00:13:42] So people can punch and kick and you know do dives and they even outside of the no rules context matches you know and that that was the story the story was oh you're an amateur wrestler cool come where the big boys play where you don't have.

[00:13:58] You know all your protection and your rules keeping everything kosher you know like because in an amateur actually match you can't punch the guy in the face.

[00:14:09] If you could you get pins a lot faster.

[00:14:14] He depends a lot faster if he could just punch you do in the men.

[00:14:20] For soup like some through glass you know that's the that's the difference but then I started wondering that's my so where did this start.

[00:14:32] And I think most people's first reaction is Vince McMahon you know kind of pulling the curtain back and I should be fair I think that has a lot to do with it.

[00:14:42] But I'm going to be honest with you. Well I think it is meant to man but in a different way not so much pulling behind the curtain because I think it had already started by then.

[00:14:53] I think it was I blame the 80s just the cartoon character just bullshit the plumbers the accountants the turkeys.

[00:15:09] You know to me that's when I think most people were kind of like you know.

[00:15:14] Fred I'm certain to think this in legit either that or this man's a horrible accountant.

[00:15:24] Yeah I was even like in their late 90s I would say there's still a lot like not how many wrestling but like more gimmicks.

[00:15:34] It was a no or use their real name it was always a character.

[00:15:39] And it was less like the real person.

[00:15:42] Yeah which I do especially in today's day and age I really don't understand I suppose well actually I do I take that back I do.

[00:15:51] It's a very short side of decision that really paid off at the time but it was detrimental to the business long time because you were trying to appeal to the kids that's that's what it was.

[00:16:02] Of course you know it's like a kids not going to a kid's not going to resonate with Chad Gable necessarily someone but you know but sergeant slaughter.

[00:16:17] Which that's not even too bad of one because it would it's not a stretch the drill sergeant from the Marine Corps would retire and then you know join a wrestling so that's not even that bad of one somebody like IRS for example.

[00:16:32] Great wrestler but I don't see too many accountants you know being like screw these numbers I want to bust some skulls.

[00:16:42] Yeah to be honest it took me quite a while to get used to like wrestlers having their real names or a name any name.

[00:16:51] Like a normal sounding name yeah to go all yeah.

[00:16:55] Is that my favorite wrestlers are and have always been I just thought that was always going to be.

[00:17:04] Yeah but my favorite wrestlers having always will be.

[00:17:08] Guys in and not even necessarily using the real name although as long as it doesn't sound super goofy I like it is guys that are basically themselves just amplified you know your guys like broadband damn Tommy dreamer Cm punk you know.

[00:17:26] And even the guys like Chad Gable I like Chad Gable first on my song because I'm like oh okay Olympic wrestler yeah Olympic wrestler legitimate who is now just a Shelton Benjamin's another really good exam Brock Lesnar you know nobody thought Brock Lesnar was bullshit.

[00:17:45] I mean how could you of course not.

[00:17:54] You know and then even like stone there's a reason stone cold in the rock were and probably still to this day were the greatest wrestling personalities of our time it's because they were normal they weren't I mean they were kind of cartoon characters in the sense that they were just dialed up to 11 but they were essentially themselves just amplified.

[00:18:16] But that's what stars do like.

[00:18:22] In any industry that's what legitimate superstars do like I've heard so many stories about Connor McGregor actually being like he doesn't talk that much shit he knows how to make money like don't get me wrong legitimate badass but they're restoring circulating about him and Floyd may weather being like friendly behind the scenes and being like.

[00:18:40] But they go kind of promo watch this you know.

[00:18:44] Yeah or that's it's what it was now I think the fight was legit but let's be real these guys both knew what they were doing they were making some money.

[00:18:55] Yeah they know high book the fight you know that's a skill in and of itself I say oftentimes whether it's other athletics or even politics sometimes.

[00:19:03] I actually say this about Donald Trump all the time it's like Donald Trump learned from WWE because that man cuts promo all the time.

[00:19:13] Oh yeah absolutely you know what I mean is and I see so many times I'm like they watched for wrestling when they were younger or still do you can just tell right.

[00:19:23] Uh-huh.

[00:19:25] I don't know man there's so much.

[00:19:29] And like again I just I keep picking on AEW but it's just.

[00:19:34] It all comes down there's a lot of issues there but it all comes down easy.

[00:19:41] What's that?

[00:19:43] So easy to pick on them.

[00:19:46] Look as there's a lot of individual issues but at the end of that they all comes down it all comes down to them not taking the business seriously because you know and if you want to get really.

[00:19:57] Yeah absolutely.

[00:19:58] I mean because these are people that in the same match will I mean.

[00:20:04] What was it?

[00:20:06] Jack Perry was literally set on fire.

[00:20:09] But he's fine.

[00:20:10] You know was it Jack Perry I think it was Jack Perry.

[00:20:14] Yeah so but it's funny Jack.

[00:20:16] I think that's where Darby saves you and do.

[00:20:20] Well I mean before he was actually set on fire like with the flame thrower.

[00:20:24] Oh okay.

[00:20:25] But so Jack Perry legitimately gets set on fire and then a few weeks later he's.

[00:20:30] He's threatened to be set on fire.

[00:20:33] It's like did you forget you already did that?

[00:20:38] Like don't go.

[00:20:39] It couldn't have been.

[00:20:42] But it's like a W also seems to suffer from memory loss like short term memory loss because just the goofy.

[00:20:50] The goofy shit constantly coming back up back up.

[00:20:56] And again.

[00:20:56] Oh the staple gun keep staying that.

[00:20:59] I hate the staple gun now like it was a cool bit.

[00:21:03] It's been a swirl of and hey man but it's overdone now this way too much.

[00:21:08] But here we are going back to not taking the business seriously.

[00:21:13] So here's the thing as someone who has accidentally stapled his hand right.

[00:21:19] It hurts.

[00:21:20] Yeah but I'll tell you I'll tell you right now if I was in a legitimate fight it wouldn't stop me and if it's not going to stop me it's certainly not going to stop so we're struggling.

[00:21:32] It's not.

[00:21:34] If anything.

[00:21:36] It's overdone way too much. I started late in the last one.

[00:21:40] It's also reactive it doesn't work.

[00:21:42] It's not going to end the fight.

[00:21:44] It's just it's not.

[00:21:46] If you're fighting somebody who's a legitimately tough all they're going to do is get pissed off take it from you and then staple you nine times out of ten.

[00:21:56] So it's not a good idea.

[00:21:59] It's just it's in an actual fight don't bring a staple gun.

[00:22:03] Bring a stick as she had a verse you would always say never underestimate the power of a good stick.

[00:22:11] Sticks are great.

[00:22:15] Sticks are the greatest weapons that you can ever get there.

[00:22:19] They're plentiful they're cheap they're easy to use because it's a lob some people's one you'll find out how you'll find out very quickly how effective a good stick is.

[00:22:34] But I digress and then not just in the ring because again I don't like to comment too much on in ring work but I will comment on doing stupid shit.

[00:22:43] Just because I consider that booking but speaking of booking.

[00:22:49] So I ask again where's Tony Khan where's it where's Tony Khan and his ex grace.

[00:22:56] I thought this was a thing they went out of their way and we could a thing.

[00:23:01] And I told you guys I told you guys they weren't going to commit to the bit because they're committing to the wrong part of the bit and then it's going to disappear because.

[00:23:12] Tony is going to realize too late that he looked like a dog but it's going to be too late because at this point he should have seen it through.

[00:23:21] For the say if for no other release.

[00:23:23] Yeah well for no other reason for the sake of the storyline because again you started.

[00:23:29] You started it and now it's it's nowhere and now you've got the young bucks making decisions but then Tony makes decisions to.

[00:23:37] It doesn't make sense because anybody who's ever had a job understands whoever signs your checks is the real boss.

[00:23:45] The young bucks cannot fire you because Tony can override them so what what do they got I'll believe I'll believe that they can't be fired even though they absolutely can.

[00:23:56] But let's let's I'll give them the benefit of the doubt let's say they have a contract which doesn't exist anywhere.

[00:24:02] It's probably not even legal that says you can't be fired okay you can be arrested.

[00:24:10] You can absolutely be arrested for assault and battery.

[00:24:16] I mean just all jobs.

[00:24:20] All buildings security Tony can have them banned from the building any night he wants.

[00:24:25] This doesn't make any sense.

[00:24:30] And here's the thing though and this is the problem because it's not just the.

[00:24:33] It's not just the mentality of the wrestling business that's changed and this is the biggest problem is the mentality of the wrestling fan because everybody says oh just stop thinking about it it's just wrestling.

[00:24:44] That's why it sucks.

[00:24:47] That's why rampages getting viewership of 200 300 thousand viewers when pump was there it was 500.

[00:25:00] It's just.

[00:25:01] It's just.

[00:25:02] In dynamite.

[00:25:02] In dynamite.

[00:25:05] Down to 600 regularly.

[00:25:08] Actually the if they get to seven that's considered high now I remember one a million was you know like all right we're doing good 900 thousand was pretty well.

[00:25:16] And then I went to a then I went to seven then I went to seven because the shows been that and it sucks because they have so many.

[00:25:25] So many I haven't watched it months I don't care.

[00:25:30] And I've kind of made it a point.

[00:25:33] Like I want to I want to be good for the people to do watch this show but at the same time I kind of want to make a point to be like no Tony give me something to give a shit about and then I'll start watching again.

[00:25:46] This is going back to TNA.

[00:25:47] Exactly like you need more story lines yeah well you don't even need more you need good I just I need something that I invested in.

[00:25:56] I got hell invested in Cody Rhodes.

[00:25:59] That happened overnight because there was already a story there and WWE took the story that was already there and molded it into their creative.

[00:26:08] CM Punk they took a story that was already there.

[00:26:11] And they molded it in their creative and now they're doing stuff with Drew McIntyre that like honestly shouldn't be entertaining but it is because they melded it into a story that was already there.

[00:26:22] Like in a vacuum the idea of Drew McIntyre tweeting during a match at WrestleMania is stupid.

[00:26:30] But it was hilarious because it made sense.

[00:26:33] There was a sense in the context of the story and he didn't do something stupid in the match so he could be able to go out.

[00:26:40] He laid punk out and then wanted to rub it in because his character has been established that he doesn't so much want to beat punk he wants to humiliate punk.

[00:26:48] It makes sense.

[00:26:51] Yeah.

[00:26:52] It makes sense.

[00:26:53] They weren't the character in conflict that they've established.

[00:26:56] So you can do the fun stuff it just has to make sense.

[00:27:01] I've set it before and I'll go back to it.

[00:27:03] You can have orange Cassidy as the character that he is.

[00:27:08] Here's the thing though, if he wins it has to be rare and it has to be by accident or interference.

[00:27:18] If he's your squash guy, fine.

[00:27:20] And you can do a storyline where he starts training and caring although I never liked the fact that they say he doesn't care because okay.

[00:27:27] If I'm a wrestling promoter, if I'm a fight promoter like if if I'm Dana White.

[00:27:33] You think Dana White's going to give a guy matches and fights that doesn't care?

[00:27:38] He's not even going to let him in the but he won't even consider that guy.

[00:27:43] Yeah.

[00:27:44] Even when he turns it up to like back like the real wrestler still doesn't feel like it's the journey.

[00:27:50] Like he goes back to like a little case because it's not because it's not so here's the thing.

[00:27:56] And my point is and I'll illustrate this in a moment.

[00:28:00] You can make it make sense, but you have to make it make sense.

[00:28:02] Let's say you want orange Cassidy exactly as he is like I said he has to win few and far between and it generally speaking has to be an accident or interference or somebody.

[00:28:13] Now, why is orange Cassidy here?

[00:28:15] Okay.

[00:28:17] You have to come up with the reason for him to be there that makes sense.

[00:28:20] So obviously he's the son or cousin or nephew or whatever of one of the largest donors.

[00:28:26] You see three him except these three was actually good.

[00:28:30] Oh yeah, yeah.

[00:28:32] Yeah.

[00:28:32] That's really good sense.

[00:28:34] That's all you have to do and then you can have your comedy bit and it can actually be good.

[00:28:39] I'll do another example.

[00:28:40] Again, you can go back.

[00:28:41] I don't remember what episode it is.

[00:28:42] It was still back when Dan housing was a rumor but it was it was pretty well said that he was coming to a W.

[00:28:48] I said this.

[00:28:49] I said housing won't last because the gimmick.

[00:28:51] The gimmick works on the indies because you see it every once in a while and it's not a mainstay.

[00:28:56] It's not somebody you see every time you're there.

[00:28:59] It will be so stale so fast in a W unless and I actually said this.

[00:29:04] I said, this is how they could have made it work with hook right.

[00:29:08] So Dan housing makes his debut and an always hook for whatever reason but then Dan housing some for some reason he likes hook he wants to help him out.

[00:29:18] So you have it where every couple weeks hook has a match.

[00:29:22] Dan housing comes out and curses the other person or oh hang on, I mean,

[00:29:31] no, I'm sorry, I got that mixed up.

[00:29:34] So you have it to where Dan housing and hook get into a scuffle or something so then Dan housing gets mad at hook.

[00:29:41] And then Dan housing every couple weeks comes out and keep in mind at this point hooks matches.

[00:29:45] I end of matter, but they don't really by the way, this suggestion goes out the window if a W still has the mantra of wins and losses matter.

[00:29:54] But they obviously, they didn't at the time they said it did, but it really didn't.

[00:29:58] So hook gets in his head and if I'm not advocating for this, I'm just saying that if you want Dan housing as he is because I wouldn't have ever hired Dan housing in the first place.

[00:30:07] But if you must have Dan housing the way he is, this is one of the many ways you can bring him in and make it make sense and give him an actual give him an actual storyline that would make sense.

[00:30:17] And here's what you do so.

[00:30:20] You.

[00:30:22] Basically have it to where they have a tucile backstage or whatever and the Dan housing decides he doesn't like hook like he says the chips are stupid or something.

[00:30:30] I don't know, so every time hook has a match for a few weeks and it's not every week. It's every couple weeks. Dan housing comes out and curses his book and it actually works. So even Dan housing's kind of like.

[00:30:43] Oh, like, and this is how you can play into the audience even being like, oh, it's for wrestling, it's silly.

[00:30:49] Even Dan housing doesn't think it's going to work, but it does. So now Dan house and starts to think and nobody ever says it right that's the thing.

[00:30:58] It's all in the facial expressions. Dan house and starts to believe he actually has powers.

[00:31:05] So he screws around with hook blah, blah, blah, blah. Then hook fun leaves is all right. I didn't know. I've had enough. I'm losing. I want to match against Dan housing. Now, Dan house and of course takes the bait because he thinks he can actually curse hook.

[00:31:18] So you know, he keeps going hook and even more and more and then hooks, you know, finally like five you know, like, I don't just want to match, I want to know holds Bard match.

[00:31:28] You know, blah and Dan housing of course thinks he has powers now. So he's like, cool whatever blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, well then match opens up at the paper view right.

[00:31:38] Dan housing goes to curse hook and hook, you know, he's he's always cursed. He's cursed and Dan housing comes up gets a little bit closer and then hook just looks at him stands up nothing's happening.

[00:31:51] Hook's been faking the whole time just to get Dan housing in the position where he can beat the crap out of him and nobody can stop him.

[00:32:02] That's that's that's a couple months of television and a blow off in a paper view. It elevates hook, it elevates Dan housing.

[00:32:10] It introduces him to the audience and then you have to change his character because again, the gimmick don't work and now you've shown it on screen that the gimmick don't work.

[00:32:21] And who gives a shit about the indies that played into it before. That's just people being superstitious.

[00:32:26] If you're going to mention that at all, which I wouldn't because screw it. It doesn't matter if you must explain it way to be like, oh yeah, those guys must believe and go, too, you know, like the sorry, this is a W this is all elite wrestling, you know we don't play here.

[00:32:47] That's that's just one example.

[00:32:50] And I'll keep going back to this well, Luch Underground ridiculous premise at every episode was a ridiculous premise. However,

[00:33:02] They committed to the bit they all played it straight and it worked.

[00:33:08] Luch Underground was a phenomenal show.

[00:33:11] It was must see TV.

[00:33:13] It made sense in the universe that they set up.

[00:33:17] It was all like it was out there.

[00:33:21] But,

[00:33:23] So I always go back to the whole storyline with Arrow Star and Drago.

[00:33:29] They started out as rivals. They realized they like competing against each other, realizing they make a good tag team.

[00:33:34] Drago gets hypnotized by, um,

[00:33:38] Hobrimoon and becomes part of her little click and Arrow Star has to save his friend.

[00:33:44] This is ridiculous.

[00:33:46] They're all wrestlers wearing masks that are reptilian themed and somehow she has mine control.

[00:33:51] And yet, because they committed to it because they played it straight,

[00:33:55] because they did the work behind the scenes because they did the angles and the interviews and the matches and all the build up.

[00:34:02] You wanted Arrow Star to save his friend.

[00:34:09] Yeah, they had different characters everything.

[00:34:12] But at least they knew the characters.

[00:34:16] Yeah, and oh my gosh, they did vignettes that showed you more about the characters and then,

[00:34:21] Oh my gosh, what happened on the vignette last week actually

[00:34:25] Mattert and came into play here.

[00:34:27] It's almost like somebody made a story and stuck with it.

[00:34:34] Oh my god, is it damn good thing?

[00:34:37] You know,

[00:34:41] I can't say enough.

[00:34:44] And like when they brought in Matansa,

[00:34:47] Matansa is under five eight.

[00:34:49] I'm sorry, he's under six feet.

[00:34:51] He's not that big, but every week he squash people.

[00:34:55] So you believe and they get they said it was supernatural.

[00:34:58] Cool, as long as you play that out on screen.

[00:35:02] Yeah, he's supernatural. He's a freak of nature. He shouldn't be that strong, but he is and it worked.

[00:35:09] Except for when Brian Cage was taller than him.

[00:35:12] That's one.

[00:35:15] You know, but yeah, like I never questioned the character, see who.

[00:35:19] Not a one, not a one.

[00:35:23] And because when they did crazy stuff in the ring, first of all,

[00:35:27] it was people that could do it on command anytime.

[00:35:32] You know, and they did it when it mattered.

[00:35:35] And he'll go only jumped off of a rooftop twice in four seasons.

[00:35:41] And both of them were in major matches that were blow offs for the season.

[00:35:46] Not first, oh my god, I still watch that match at Ultima Lucho Uno.

[00:35:51] It was one of the greatest, yeah, it was amazing. I never seen no one else do it. Just quite like him.

[00:35:56] It was incredible. That was incredible.

[00:36:00] I caught it was insane.

[00:36:03] Is he still in a W?

[00:36:08] You really see on my soul, like maybe last week, I think, or rampage or something.

[00:36:15] See, here's the thing, I always like to tell you.

[00:36:17] He was going to attack team or something.

[00:36:19] I always like to him in Jack Evans. I liked them as a tag team. I liked in Helikos, a wrestler. He was different.

[00:36:27] Yeah, you have you have a great performer.

[00:36:32] I don't know why they're not using him.

[00:36:34] Yeah.

[00:36:37] He has a totally different style because he's like, he's a hybrid, high flyer and the submission guy.

[00:36:43] And they explain it, which actually Lucho underground started doing this.

[00:36:47] They explain it as it's like a Spanish submission style.

[00:36:52] And I'm like, okay, that's not I've never heard of this before. It might not even be real.

[00:36:57] But I don't care because they're playing it like it's real and that's all that matters.

[00:37:01] It was unbelievable.

[00:37:02] Yeah, it was believable because he's he's jumping off top ropes and then put in guys and like submission holds that I've never seen.

[00:37:10] At the same time, it's like, I believe it.

[00:37:13] And that's all I need. That's all I need to see on screen.

[00:37:19] And then just talking about like, Oh, no, why not use them. Maybe they're ROH.

[00:37:27] Don't even get me started on ROH.

[00:37:30] I just.

[00:37:31] Yeah, I don't know.

[00:37:35] And it's so much worth it.

[00:37:37] It's gotten so bad that like championships don't even matter anymore.

[00:37:42] I mean, let's realistically don't.

[00:37:44] How long was Swirvay W World Champion?

[00:37:47] Few months, you know, and maybe like, yeah, we must maybe in that time.

[00:37:54] Will Osprey was a bigger name and Brian Daniels him was a bigger name.

[00:37:58] Like I'm still annoyed with how they just squandered Swirv's title run.

[00:38:03] It's like, why'd you even give him the bill?

[00:38:06] It doesn't it doesn't make any sense.

[00:38:12] It's in plus.

[00:38:17] I'm just going to say, I don't think he'd defend in the belt that may in time.

[00:38:20] He's either not that care member.

[00:38:24] No, and when he did it was against the same people.

[00:38:29] Well, plus this is a W wherever everybody's got to belt.

[00:38:33] But guess what, everybody.

[00:38:35] Thanks to our friends at trophy smack everybody really can have a belt.

[00:38:39] And the best part is you can customize it to whatever he wants no matter how ridiculous it could possibly be.

[00:38:47] Your dream is their reality because a trophy smack they give you the highest quality custom belts ring.

[00:38:54] The best part is compared to other sites of the same thing.

[00:38:59] They're extremely affordable and legit.

[00:39:02] This belt is every bit of six pounds.

[00:39:04] It is actually metal and leather.

[00:39:06] This isn't, you know, cheap plastic crap.

[00:39:09] I know you can't tell because you're on the bottom.

[00:39:10] It's a nice thing though.

[00:39:12] But I'm holding it.

[00:39:13] And the thing is they've got tons of color schemes and themes to choose from.

[00:39:17] You can even get.

[00:39:20] And some of their colors alligator leather.

[00:39:23] Which I knew I had to get for the podcast.

[00:39:27] That's very nice and very nice and look at that.

[00:39:33] And not just belts custom rings and trophies as well.

[00:39:37] And in fact, if you've got a buddy that you want to give a nice little gag gift to they have a loser section.

[00:39:43] So you can get him a loser championship belt or trophy.

[00:39:46] Very popular among the fantasy footballers. I know that seems to be there.

[00:39:51] But if you would like to get yourself a custom belt just in time for the holidays.

[00:39:58] Use the second link in the description.

[00:40:00] First or second link in description for our friends at trophy smack and they will hook you up.

[00:40:06] Put these back.

[00:40:07] Beautiful bastards back.

[00:40:09] My plan was actually to hang them on the wall, but I didn't count on them being this heavy.

[00:40:12] So I have yet to find something that will actually hold them. It's become a problem.

[00:40:19] So now they just kind of sit on the bookcase and I pull him down when I need to.

[00:40:28] But yeah, just going back to Swirr. I mean,

[00:40:32] If I were him, I'd be kissed.

[00:40:35] Because I had been going into Tony's office for three every week.

[00:40:38] I think he sounded like a con. Another like five years or something.

[00:40:42] I'd still be pissed.

[00:40:46] I'd still be angry. I'd be like, I'm so good for another five years and this is the bullshit you're giving me.

[00:40:52] Yeah.

[00:40:52] Like I left WWE because of this crap.

[00:40:56] And the thing is, we were so good.

[00:40:59] It's not like they gave him the ball and dropped it.

[00:41:02] And I'm not on my own.

[00:41:03] In fact, he's been, I'm not saying he was bad before.

[00:41:08] So we've got better as champion. And yet it seems like it just recognized.

[00:41:14] Yeah, him and, um,

[00:41:16] Nana is manager. I can both.

[00:41:19] I don't really, I don't get Nana, but

[00:41:23] It's not so bad that I would be like fire.

[00:41:26] It's like, I don't.

[00:41:27] The managers are allowed to be funny. That's the thing because they're not in the, well,

[00:41:31] They might be in the ring, but if they are taking bombs.

[00:41:36] Is that orange casting should be a manager?

[00:41:41] That's true.

[00:41:43] And then a notch, a match between Nana and orange casting would make total sense.

[00:41:49] I mean, even Paul Hayman would be orange casting in a real fight.

[00:41:55] I said it.

[00:41:58] I said it.

[00:42:00] Yeah, he's the real tried to chief.

[00:42:04] I feel like I saw somebody who made Hayman as a character, but basically gave him a ghost mode.

[00:42:11] Oh, what's up? Oh, that's my song.

[00:42:13] Oh, God, that shit was funny.

[00:42:17] I love Paul Hayman, but even Paul Hayman would have found that funny.

[00:42:25] Yeah, that's right. You did do.

[00:42:27] Actually, that's why I'm remembering. Oh, gosh.

[00:42:34] Yeah, I don't know. What are some other examples of the wrestling mentality changing?

[00:42:41] I think we can all agree though that since Vince left, I will win this.

[00:42:47] Since Vince got officially left W to be, I think everything got better even the commentary because I was fairly recently.

[00:42:53] I talked about how I couldn't stand Corey Gray's, but now I actually don't mind him.

[00:43:00] Because now when he's being a healer, no, no.

[00:43:03] Because now when he's being a heal commentator, he's not so constrained on what he can say he can actually commit to the bit instead of sounding like a doofus.

[00:43:11] So apologies to Corey Gray's because I blamed you apparently it was the higher ups.

[00:43:19] You know, and when I'm home gosh, Pat and I can even.

[00:43:22] Michael Cole.

[00:43:24] Yeah, Michael Cole's way better now.

[00:43:27] I can't believe it. Michael Cole so much better than he was so much less annoying.

[00:43:31] And then Pat and when Pat Maccavee first started being on commentary. He was annoying to me. And now I like it because again, he just.

[00:43:41] Pat Maccavee's character is that he gets up there. He doesn't care what anybody says and he just says it.

[00:43:47] That works. That works for a color commentator. It works quite well. It just even tore was the same way.

[00:43:53] He would just get up there and say whatever he felt like saying because he's not afraid of any men. He faced a predator in South America.

[00:44:06] I love Jesse Ventura.

[00:44:09] And I got I got nothing on Kerry and gross. This is impression he's got.

[00:44:15] I'm in all God the comedian. I forget his name. They both have way better Jesse Ventura.

[00:44:24] Yeah.

[00:44:25] Yeah, he's back. I think he signed a vengeance. Legend's deal. He did. Yeah, I saw and I saw part of this interview. He did with Chris Van Bleed and he asked him about it before he signed me was like,

[00:44:35] Yeah, all right. Is there any way you go back to the companies like I'm very close to actually, you know, coming back and that's that's triple H. That's every bit of triple H because triple H.

[00:44:49] And triple H is a funny dude we know this we know this triple H is very funny he's very entertaining but he understands that you have to play it all straight.

[00:45:02] Is otherwise if you let people in on the joke and behind the curtain they're going to know what's fake.

[00:45:08] But he and see him punk understand that if you play it all and punk is a master at this where he gives you, he gives you and when he's kind of promo he gives you information that you know is legitimate and then he spins it into his narrative. So then by the time it's done you don't know what's real and what's not and that is where it works.

[00:45:27] When you know the industry isn't legitimate.

[00:45:31] But there's enough realism to blur the lines that's when wrestling is phenomenal.

[00:45:36] I mean you forget where you're washing anything is actually real.

[00:45:40] Yeah, well and then even even when you know I go back I've mentioned this so many times but it's a go back and watch it the con Michael superkicked to Shelton Benjamin.

[00:45:50] Looks like he killed him as far as I could tell even though I know even though I know wrestling is tripped in predetermined accidents can happen.

[00:45:59] And he looked like he killed him and according to Shelton you didn't barely touch it.

[00:46:05] It's like that's that's that's per wrestling.

[00:46:10] Right there he must have a skill.

[00:46:13] Yeah because I don't know.

[00:46:14] It takes more effort to like not hit someone that the Ashley hits something.

[00:46:18] It takes a way more effort to not hit someone.

[00:46:21] Yeah and make it look real.

[00:46:23] Yeah, there was another moment and shoot I'm having trouble with me. Oh it was Jacob Fattu.

[00:46:31] When he he did a dive on a table at a paper view.

[00:46:36] And and he was selling his knee but here's the thing.

[00:46:40] After hearing J. Jim Cornet talk about it I now understand and I'm just like all that was brilliant.

[00:46:47] It was when Roman came back that's what it was I forget what paper view was but it was when Roman came back.

[00:46:52] The whole reason Jacob Fattu did that bit is because his because they couldn't they had to have a legitimate reason that Jacob Fattu couldn't run in the ring and attack Roman after he attacks.

[00:47:04] Yeah, that's like he did that's.

[00:47:08] That's.

[00:47:09] Thinking logically about it because your first if you're thinking logically about it of Jacob Fattu is at ringside and Roman comes out in Superman punches solo Jacob Fattu's going to run in the ring and attack him.

[00:47:22] It's just logical.

[00:47:23] Jacob Fattu doesn't run from a fight.

[00:47:26] So why would he not engage Roman for solo.

[00:47:29] So you have to eliminate that possibility.

[00:47:31] How do you do that injury?

[00:47:32] You need him to lay out Cody Rhodes for the match cool he's not going to just disappear it's bloodline rules there's no reason to he can't be barred from ringside.

[00:47:40] So you weave it into the narrative so that it makes sense but he did it so well I thought he actually hurt his knee.

[00:47:49] Yeah, because I don't think the plan was you're going to hurt your knee I think the plan was okay you're going to splash on the table and whatever hurt you the most pretend like it's broken.

[00:47:59] So like if he landed on a shoulder for example he'd be like oh my shoulder but he did hit that knee that look like a lot.

[00:48:11] I'm going to mention a name that a lot of you probably forgot and I don't think he got enough credit for this do you remember Marcus Corvon.

[00:48:23] No.

[00:48:24] Okay, WWE C. WWE CW in the beginning like part of the new breed was Elijah Burke Kevin Thorne and he was the.

[00:48:35] His his finisher was the Pals which this this was more people selling it but again.

[00:48:41] I loved how that looked in the ring was it absolutely devastating.

[00:48:50] And I was one of the people that actually liked Elijah Burke I know he got a lot of grief and apparently does.

[00:48:57] I thought he was such a great heel.

[00:49:00] And he's still wrestling by the way he just he's what's he going by now is he still danger moved in arrow or does he have another name he's in and W away now.

[00:49:09] Oh yes, oh had no idea.

[00:49:11] Yeah, I think it's it's under a different name though.

[00:49:14] Or at least I think I saw him in a B away one point maybe he is out now I'd have to look but I know for a long time after WWE he's only by the angel of Diner and then he was the Pope briefly in TNA.

[00:49:28] But it.

[00:49:29] I always okay yeah, yeah, you're right yeah yeah, I always enjoyed him in ECW I thought he was there too I thought he was one of their best heels.

[00:49:38] I love that whole new breed ECW original storyline even though I know a lot of people may find of it but to me that was logical it was a logical storyline to happen.

[00:49:49] And I love their below off match at WrestleMania we're so many of 23 still one of my favorite ones even though I know a lot of people don't like it I love WrestleMania 23 because once again, it was a story that made sense.

[00:50:05] It would make sense that a bunch of new guys coming in would want to either revered ECW originals or get wins over them so that it helps their careers.

[00:50:15] And plusments we may have was telling them too and they wanted it made sense and I was even back in the mids and mids and man era where his henchmen were cheerleaders so figure that out.

[00:50:26] I do miss the spirit squad.

[00:50:30] That was funny shit you got to know.

[00:50:33] I don't come on yet was like here.

[00:50:35] You know it's the spirit squad.

[00:50:37] I loved it that was okay so that's probably something somebody somebody will call me out on.

[00:50:44] I loved the spirit squad I thought that was hilarious.

[00:50:48] But I guess okay so here's my head cannon right this is how I make it make sense.

[00:50:56] Vince McMahon made them be cheerleaders they weren't actually cheerleaders this is a man said you're going to be my henchmen but.

[00:51:03] Because I like humiliating people who are going to be male cheerleaders which is actually what happened so it's just it's just I make what actually happened part of the story.

[00:51:15] No and then even when when dex finally beat them beat them they put them in a box and shipped them back to the do you remember that.

[00:51:26] Yeah, that was good.

[00:51:28] Yeah, that was fun I'm sure it pissed Jim Cornette off and.

[00:51:33] Honestly rightfully so because let's see Kenny dixtor who was actually good you had Nick Nemeth.

[00:51:40] Nicky.

[00:51:42] I've gone who's the other one it was like Jim Cornette always talked about him.

[00:51:47] I can't remember his name and I don't know any and off.

[00:51:52] I mean apparently they were all really good I'm trying to remember the other one.

[00:51:57] I do I'm not I'm not going to remember but apparently he was like Jim Cornette one of Jim Cornette's top baby faces and he never he never really got his dude.

[00:52:06] I think the I think the only time he was in WWE on TV was part of the spirit squad.

[00:52:13] But yeah, I don't know I really do and I think it's available I think you can go back and watch oh we W during that time maybe not because I think no I don't think you can because I'm pretty sure that.

[00:52:26] Jim Cornette doesn't anymore but Danny D I'm pretty sure Danny Davis still owns all that.

[00:52:32] Which that's a shame because that that would have been cool to be able to go back and watch all that maybe you can I just don't know how.

[00:52:41] Because I kind of I kind of regret not being into OVW during that time because it seems like.

[00:52:47] Well, I mean I if Danny Davis has it I mean he has it but I don't know where you would be able to watch it.

[00:52:53] Maybe it isn't maybe during that time since it's technically WWE developmental maybe it is on the network I'd have to see.

[00:53:01] You and the comments should let everyone know.

[00:53:08] I do kind of regret because like even back when Hongp was in OVW that was after Jim Cornette left but it was still WWE developmental like punk was in OVW a lot of guys were in girls were in OVW.

[00:53:21] You can go back and watch old prototype John Cena.

[00:53:26] Yeah and you can go back and watch it.

[00:53:29] Shelton Benjamin and Brock Lesnar when they were relatively the same size which that's that's always very funny.

[00:53:34] Coach Shelton Benjamin is bigger than they make him appear on TV because if you go back to old OVW days and he's standing next to Brock like don't give me a wrong Brock's bigger but not by that much.

[00:53:45] But they always marketed Shelton as kind of like a high flyer so Shelton Benjamin is not a small man.

[00:53:55] Kind of wish he's not even now especially now obviously yeah I kind of wish he would go to AEW either he's not he's already said he wouldn't but.

[00:54:04] Just because I wish he would go to WWE and find it was.

[00:54:08] Oh maybe.

[00:54:10] Oh wait you're right.

[00:54:13] Because of the hurt business I thought Bobby was going to go to AEW and they're like really like the hurt business a little bit.

[00:54:23] Helm Shelton.

[00:54:25] And oh who was the other one?

[00:54:28] I know his name I'm just blanking on it.

[00:54:31] MVP.

[00:54:33] There's another one.

[00:54:36] Oh gosh.

[00:54:38] That's not true.

[00:54:39] That's true.

[00:54:41] Yeah that might be still in the contract.

[00:54:48] I don't know but yeah that would be nice I just I always.

[00:54:51] It's like the Shelton Benjamin should have been at least a one time actually should have been a multi time WWE champion but he never did and I think that's a travesty.

[00:54:59] I think that needs to be corrected.

[00:55:02] Because I don't think.

[00:55:03] I don't know what they're very.

[00:55:06] I don't know what they're doing.

[00:55:07] And I was so stoked because I want to say it was 2018 he was going to go to New Japan but then he got it was either an injury or some kind of infection I can't remember.

[00:55:15] But he ended up not being able to do he had to postpone and then I guess this the deal passed up because I was very excited for that.

[00:55:25] Because gone back in 2018 New Japan we got to gotten some great matches.

[00:55:29] I don't know I'd like to see I'd like I think he could do really work in a w I think him and Danielson could do good stuff.

[00:55:38] He can he can he can rest on anybody so yeah I will let him swear him is where would have a great you know I will accept I think he's going to make swirville small.

[00:55:51] I'm sorry.

[00:55:53] Just have them tell you what this is what they need to do with shouting this is just for me.

[00:55:57] Have him have a few to Jack Perry except their first and only match he just slaps him and knocks him out can we please do this like please.

[00:56:11] I'm just laughing so much that were so worth it might make me a fan of Jack Perry is like wow he can really.

[00:56:19] He can sell.

[00:56:22] But I'm still laughing though it help punk is punk is clearly living rentfully rent free in their head still and they're all jealous.

[00:56:30] They're all jealous that they kicked him out and then he went to WWE and made even more money because CM Punk is a top guy.

[00:56:40] Yeah, you are not.

[00:56:44] You know he tried to tell you.

[00:56:46] I was on the.

[00:56:47] Yeah, I'm awesome.

[00:56:49] Well what kills me is that Tony got him they clearly the other guys clearly didn't want him so they basically sabotage it and Tony let it happen.

[00:57:04] And like especially in hindsight Tony absolutely should have fired everybody else.

[00:57:09] But he didn't certainly should have fired Jack Perry because.

[00:57:15] How's that special jack house house them.

[00:57:18] I can understand forgiveness being the prevailing emotion after brawler I get that Jack Perry should have been fired.

[00:57:27] I mean yeah.

[00:57:30] Should have happened he should have been fired before I think I said this but I'll say it again just for posterity just in case I didn't.

[00:57:38] What Tony's react because Tony knew what was going on Tony would have heard about this incident so when Jack pulled that he's going to see punk walking to gorilla he gets up and says hey punk.

[00:57:49] I got this please go to your locker room I'm going to handle this right now.

[00:57:56] And then punk for we like oh really what are you going to do and it's like I'm going to fucking fire him.

[00:58:00] That's what I'm going to do.

[00:58:02] And I don't want this to escalate because you've got to match your matches next.

[00:58:08] I don't need you getting this I mean I know you kill him I don't need you getting blood on you before the match.

[00:58:16] This like I got this I got this and you know say like okay punk goes back to his you know locker room Jack comes out Jack you're fired.

[00:58:27] Hook good match like except except we all know that Tony had to approve the car being out there in the first place.

[00:58:38] Surely sure there's no way there's absolutely no way that Jack Perry could have just had a car brought out without prior authorization.

[00:58:50] I was saying if Tony was someone else was in charge and okay that's the only way.

[00:58:59] But we know that Tony we all know that nobody else is in charge because Tony yeah I know and even then okay so let's I'm just looking at our angles let's say you're right let's say that somebody also proved it.

[00:59:12] Tony sees the car on the monitor says what the fuck's that card on it.

[00:59:16] Oh Jack's gonna get thrown into the glass no he's not.

[00:59:20] That's way too close to the audience and there's got that's real glass that's glass flying everywhere he is not.

[00:59:28] And last thing I need is for that idiot to cut an artery by mistake and then bleed out live on television no he's not.

[00:59:36] Yeah.

[00:59:37] I think hook that cut yeah.

[00:59:39] They both got cut because it was stupid.

[00:59:42] Yeah, I did laugh at that though when he was like real close climate river and then he got thrown through it and cut his back and I'm like that is why.

[00:59:52] Yeah, that's what's going on.

[00:59:53] I think I'm trying to warn you he tried to tell you not to do it because it was stupid and it was an appreciate show match.

[01:00:03] Yeah, main event for a title maybe blow off from a major feud maybe I I I could be persuaded to authorize it that but you're still gonna give me the glass.

[01:00:14] Because it also didn't look as good it would have looked much better if he gone completely through it because fun fact against a real windshield doesn't shatter it splits and if it breaks it doesn't you know it doesn't do that it's it's.

[01:00:29] Yeah, this is going to a thousand pieces it goes to the trucks.

[01:00:33] Exactly.

[01:00:35] It's like it's fast in the paper but whatever so it didn't even look as good and it was very risky.

[01:00:42] So I mean yeah.

[01:00:45] Punk was right it just it shouldn't have happened it shouldn't have made absolutely no sense why why was it there back did Jack and hook even have any build up to that match I can't remember.

[01:00:59] I mean there's a pre so match.

[01:01:02] I really did it but it wasn't enough for that.

[01:01:05] Oh, you know what because didn't what it was a match against hook in that collision match wasn't it so maybe they had a thing going I don't know.

[01:01:14] Yeah, it was okay okay so I stand correct and maybe you know it was yeah but it wasn't like me if you're glass.

[01:01:23] Yeah, no death.

[01:01:25] And again, pre show match which first of all if they had an angle go if they had a.

[01:01:34] And then you see that all in is going to be in Texas next year not wimbly.

[01:01:45] Oh, yeah and I will say this because a lot of people were like oh, oh numbers were that bad.

[01:01:51] I'm no actually because those events get planned well in advance.

[01:01:55] What happened was the first one and this is the A.E.W. credit the first one went so well Wimbly had already signed up for the second one.

[01:02:03] But the first one did so well. I think it's Austin where they're going to have it wherever in Texas wherever Texas was like Tony we we'd we'd like to pay you a lot of money to have that show here in two years.

[01:02:16] And that's exactly what happened so credit were credits do the show did well and I think the second one did pretty good too.

[01:02:26] But I believe so, I'm not sure worse one I think the first one was more yeah well that and that makes sense that well that would make sense even if the second one was stupid and this like.

[01:02:37] I think it was the first stadium show there and very, very long time so that just that just makes sense like the first all in they honestly couldn't have done they could have done no wrong because it was just it was the novelty of them appearing there but.

[01:02:54] Yeah, I don't know I think the thing is like everybody talks about when a W does well it's like oh you know the could of.

[01:03:01] You know, oh this is the greatest thing ever it's like yeah unfortunately could have been better.

[01:03:06] Maybe not winbly but every other show because I'm seeing a lot and it's been a lot and it's.

[01:03:16] But the last show wasn't bad the last oh I'll show I enjoy that way more than all in.

[01:03:25] Really.

[01:03:27] That happened like yeah yeah way more.

[01:03:31] Except for the last match with a hangman and um swarve.

[01:03:35] Use like us to staples again they use some kind of needle like an asho like hyperdermit meal for some reason.

[01:03:44] It just was weird yeah so glad I didn't watch this.

[01:03:50] That part threw me off but the rest of the car was pretty okay.

[01:03:54] What was in the needle so weird.

[01:03:59] I've no idea like I guess something to make them.

[01:04:03] It was like like a him and took it out this like box or something and stuck in his mouth like a dentist.

[01:04:11] You know like it was actually a real meal.

[01:04:16] Yeah, or something like that and like.

[01:04:17] You give somebody a fucking in a fight.

[01:04:23] It was some kind of numbing medication or something like that.

[01:04:26] I don't know if you're not going to paralyze in there.

[01:04:30] Idiot.

[01:04:31] What was this weird?

[01:04:33] It's like that.

[01:04:37] I do love gym coordinates a little bit about there's no such thing as a no rules match and everybody's like yes or is it another isn't I'll tell you why.

[01:04:46] Because if it was truly a no rules match somebody just bring a fucking gun to the rain kill the bastard.

[01:04:51] Yeah.

[01:04:53] Okay so there are rules.

[01:04:57] That's that's honestly why no holds barred is a better term.

[01:05:02] Then no rules because because honestly, yeah.

[01:05:07] And if it's a sanction fight, I'm I'm pretty sure that even a sanction fight if you shot the guy you'd still be arrested but.

[01:05:15] I mean, given the rules of the universe, you know.

[01:05:19] I mean that's a good point actually I think there's a guy in Japan that did that gimmick he probably gun to the rain.

[01:05:25] Just bring a stick.

[01:05:27] Well yeah, I mean people bring sticks all the time.

[01:05:31] That would actually be that you want to know how to win a last man standing match.

[01:05:36] Or an I quit match not a last man standing match.

[01:05:39] Bring a bring a realistic looking water gun to the ring they make them and just pull out and point it on him it's like say I quit I quit and then just quarter them in the face and feel like I win.

[01:05:52] That'd be a cool bit.

[01:05:55] And you know what's right it would be hilarious.

[01:05:59] Yeah, there would be a lot of people dug him recover.

[01:06:02] You know what?

[01:06:05] How would be risky but you know what though.

[01:06:08] It wouldn't make sense and it would be hilarious after the fact to be scary and shit during.

[01:06:13] But just some dude just brings a gun out of his trunk so thank you.

[01:06:20] Then Brian Pillman did that or something.

[01:06:23] That was during a tape gun that was during a tape gun.

[01:06:26] Yeah, none of the tape don't holds.

[01:06:31] Oh, you know what I think that I think that's what Jim was talking about it was like why do you bring it to the ring you any of it.

[01:06:38] Yeah.

[01:06:40] It's like out there you can be arrested in the ring it's you know it's no.

[01:06:46] Oh gosh.

[01:06:48] Yeah that would of my point is at the end of the day my point is you can actually bring good wrestling back you just have to start treating it seriously and the NWA does that but they just don't have the budget they don't have the reach that on a budget and frankly the show was boring.

[01:07:02] I tried so hard to watch in W.A. power it was boring sorry it was it was so far.

[01:07:12] But there's two oh school for me like yeah, I'm not I know I know there are and here's the thing this is the beautiful part this is why my favorite period of wrestling is like 2014 to 2019 is because there was literally something for everybody out there and then a W came along and ruined it.

[01:07:28] No because if you liked that old stadium wrestling and W. way was your show.

[01:07:33] Yeah absolutely yeah I didn't care for it but I mean again not my cup of tea if you like luchilebry luchi underground was it would be it.

[01:07:43] And then you could find AAA if you really really wanted to it was a little bit difficult but you could.

[01:07:49] You know new Japan had your strong style bring of honor had your you know wrestling purists that just care about matches W.W.

[01:07:58] You know that was a good thing.

[01:07:59] But I mean it was tolerable if that was your thing if you liked your sports entertainment if you liked good wrestling you could watch NXT.

[01:08:09] And it was so good had both good wrestling and story lines.

[01:08:15] I really like that.

[01:08:16] So good back then yeah I miss it too that was probably peak wrestling for me.

[01:08:22] Like I was absolutely.

[01:08:23] Period of time I was like this is legitimately the best I've ever seen because there was so much bit around that if you liked any kind of wrestling there was something that you would like on TV at least one thing.

[01:08:37] At least one thing that you wouldn't be able to not watch week to week because you just it was so good.

[01:08:44] Like that was when I was addicted to new Japan I was like I will miss every W.W. paper view but I will never miss a new Japan show and I didn't for years.

[01:08:55] I stayed up till 3 a.m. to watch restful kingdom live and I had to work the next day.

[01:09:03] So I'm sorry a little bit about like it was too long like now I just can't take it.

[01:09:08] So this is before I was too nice.

[01:09:10] I forget what year was this this was and I think this was whichever number it was 2018 I did so I came home and I keep in mind I was married at the time so I came home after working about six o'clock I went to sleep.

[01:09:23] Because I was going to watch our so kingdom and I knew I had to work the next day so I went to bed.

[01:09:29] I took melatonin and went to bed I woke up like two and you know couldn't sleep anymore so then I just got up and I watched a restful kingdom.

[01:09:38] And it ended.

[01:09:40] It pretty well ended right on time no I think I I watched everything but the last match and then I came home with the work and finished it.

[01:09:51] Just because I had to go to work at 9 a.m. and it was a little over three hours so yeah.

[01:09:59] No that's that's not.

[01:10:03] No it was it was damn near like four hours or something.

[01:10:09] So maybe I did finish it now I can't remember.

[01:10:13] Anyway the point is I wasn't I wanted to watch it live so bad that I wasn't I wasn't gonna miss it.

[01:10:24] Well, that's how I felt about anything I would never miss to take over anything.

[01:10:28] Oh the takeovers and this is when I discovered the takeovers.

[01:10:33] Well and that was which I think it's still this way I think the takeovers are still on Hulu for free but this is back when.

[01:10:39] The takeovers were supposed to be exclusively to the WWE network but Hulu aired them just as episodes.

[01:10:47] That's actually how I discovered the next T is because I accidentally watched a takeover.

[01:10:52] It was like two hours show and I'm thinking it's an hour.

[01:10:56] But it was so good I didn't realize it was two hours and then by the time and NXT takeover fatal four way by the way great show from start to finish it was phenomenal.

[01:11:06] And I still give credit every time because I didn't know who any of these people were.

[01:11:11] I knew who Tyson kid was because I'd seen him sparingly on WWE programming but I didn't know any of these people were and yet I loved the show.

[01:11:22] I think it was it was so good.

[01:11:26] I think my first times was.

[01:11:29] I mean, KO. I was like, you know who they were but it was good.

[01:11:34] See I had seen Kevinstein and passing which by this time I was watching NXT so when I I had heard that.

[01:11:42] You know Kevinstein and signed and he was coming to NXT all his debut of his still one of my favorite matches ever because it was the work sweet to the point made sense.

[01:11:53] He came in there he was clover him.

[01:11:56] He clobbered him which is why he should have done.

[01:11:59] Yeah.

[01:12:00] How themselves on accident, but it worked.

[01:12:05] Yeah, I did think that was funny. That wasn't that wasn't a blade that was just an accident.

[01:12:14] Yeah.

[01:12:15] But still great not.

[01:12:18] But again, nothing crazy happened in that match and it was sure it was like not even six minutes.

[01:12:24] But one of my favorite matches because the story that was being told.

[01:12:28] Gotta get back to the stories and they have to make sense.

[01:12:32] Yeah, that's the main two things.

[01:12:35] That's good stories and I've seen multiple stories like I hate when they focus on only like one storyline.

[01:12:42] Now back in the add to era there was like multiple story lives and they always grow to be good.

[01:12:48] Well, that's the secret that the main one that's yeah.

[01:12:50] Yeah, but but that's how you get people to watch the whole show because you know like I'm trying to think of an example here like.

[01:12:59] I'm not gonna lie when Batista and John refuting for the world heavyweight title.

[01:13:03] I didn't particularly care about that, but you know there might have been something going on in the midcard that I really cared about.

[01:13:11] But I'm gonna watch the whole show.

[01:13:14] There's something there for everybody.

[01:13:17] That's.

[01:13:18] It's tricky it's that's got to be a bear to write for.

[01:13:22] It's got to be really difficult to book wrestling.

[01:13:26] Which is why not everybody can do it.

[01:13:28] Tell me talking you Tony Con.

[01:13:32] Oh, yeah, especially.

[01:13:35] Well, no, that's not true because the best bookers did have a booking committee.

[01:13:40] So I guess that's I don't think anybody did it alone alone.

[01:13:44] They would always at least have help right but.

[01:13:49] I don't know you got any other thoughts about the state of the world. Oh, I forgot to tell people about other sponsors.

[01:13:54] Other sponsor singular. Do you like music.

[01:13:59] Do you like to learn more about the inner working to the music industry? Well, yeah.

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[01:14:53] So you can check out leading the band first link in the description. And with that, you got any of thoughts on the.

[01:14:59] How the mentality of wrestling has changed or.

[01:15:06] Call it.

[01:15:06] That's a much just.

[01:15:09] Yeah, yeah, that was for everything.

[01:15:12] Yeah, I mean, I feel like a broken record that matter.

[01:15:17] Yeah, I feel like a broken record for the past year because I just keep complaining about the same things because they don't change in fact, they just get worse, but hopefully WWE can continue to influence everything.

[01:15:32] Yeah, just keep up the good work for those of you doing it and for those of you not a W shape up. You can do it. You've got everything you need to.

[01:15:43] I just can't believe how long they've been going with the same crap and it's demonstrably failing.

[01:15:51] And it's like I get it. It doesn't really matter.

[01:15:54] That's something good minds over that too.

[01:15:56] Yeah, but it's like you're not listening to anybody. So it's whatever.

[01:16:02] But apparently, the W you're not even required to come to work because I think there was some media scrim. I can't remember what it was, but Tony comm was like giving credit to Jimmy Jacobs for having perfect attendance.

[01:16:13] And I'm like, wait, you mean like your your writing staff isn't at all the shows.

[01:16:20] Twice a week.

[01:16:22] You have to be there twice a week and there are people that really.

[01:16:28] And he's like, yeah, Jimmy's there every week. So he lets people know what's going on. I'm like, they're not even watching. They're not there.

[01:16:35] You're not even watching the television. I think we I think we might have identified the problem.

[01:16:42] But I don't know clearly as you know, it's gone.

[01:16:45] Yeah, no wonder it doesn't make any sense because they didn't know what happened the previous week.

[01:16:52] That might be a problem.

[01:16:55] Say what you will about Vincent man, but at least when he was in charge, everybody was there at every show.

[01:17:02] You know, all the writers everybody involved. Everybody knew what was going on.

[01:17:09] True he would change shit before.

[01:17:12] Yeah, I can imagine stuff with Tony does this with though.

[01:17:16] Oh, I would not, I would not like to be there and we're hearing a lot of stuff that we heard about WCW too is like, I'm hearing more more reports. I cannot wait for the books to come out in like 10 15 20 years.

[01:17:34] It's going to be very illuminating.

[01:17:40] Brawl out.

[01:17:41] We're lasting.

[01:17:46] What's this guy? This is son.

[01:17:49] So who knows, maybe things will be looked for the better.

[01:17:52] Yeah, sure.

[01:17:55] I can't see.

[01:17:57] We'll get better.

[01:17:59] I can't see shame at man being involved with a WY would he?

[01:18:05] I just I just not.

[01:18:06] I mean, what is still money he knows.

[01:18:10] I mean, but he doesn't does he need money?

[01:18:14] I mean, he might now because all his inheritance is going to lawyers, but no, so maybe.

[01:18:21] Maybe, maybe Vincent's spending his money.

[01:18:23] Maybe this Vince.

[01:18:28] Actually Tony should really be careful because you appear.

[01:18:31] You allegedly are WCW fan. You know how that went down.

[01:18:36] He sent Shane first.

[01:18:38] Yeah.

[01:18:42] I was like, oh, wait.

[01:18:48] I'll wait for it.

[01:18:54] It's going to make it's going to make dust and be gold dust again.

[01:19:00] No, seven.

[01:19:06] That was a worse.

[01:19:12] Oh, gosh. Well, with that, that is what's wrong with wrestling today. Hopefully it gets better.

[01:19:18] Like, here's another example like this gentleman. Remember this guy? Remember this guy's actually somebody somebody you would actually see.

[01:19:26] Yeah, he's not switch played no more.

[01:19:30] I knew it. I called it.

[01:19:32] I said, oh, Jay. No.

[01:19:39] And don't.

[01:19:40] He's not even with the, um, the, was it the gun club? He's not in that no more.

[01:19:48] Just took his place.

[01:19:51] I tried to tell you.

[01:19:54] Yeah. I told me, sure to say it in New Japan, but if you're going to leave, go to WW.

[01:20:00] But I did.

[01:20:01] Well, thank you everybody for enjoying this episode of Down the Middle.

[01:20:05] Thanks for hanging out with us for a little while.

[01:20:06] Please like share and subscribe if you haven't already.

[01:20:09] Well, forget about our wrestling autographs. She can check out that info in the previous episode. Maybe next time I'll reintroduce it.

[01:20:17] But yeah, we'll see you guys again in two weeks where we will have a topic and I will have watched some wrestling. I promise some wrestling. Just not a double.