The Final Frontier Season 1 Episode 8: Do Androids Dream of Killing Redshirts?

[00:00:00] This podcast is brought to you by Stevie Wicks and by the Arete Media Podcast Pantheon.

[00:00:09] The Final Frontier Podcast. These are the voyages of Jake Boger and Justin Spur. Our weekly mission to explore memories of Star Trek's strange new worlds, to recall the search for new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no one has had the spare time to go before.

[00:01:17] Welcome fellow Trekkies to The Final Frontier. This week, we're talking about Season 1 Episode 7, What Are Little Girls Made Of? And no, it's not what you think it is.

[00:01:29] I look, I thought that was gonna be what I thought it was, for sure.

[00:01:33] The title really doesn't, I suppose it kind of makes sense, but not really.

[00:01:38] I, no, no, not really. You know what, now that you've pointed that out, no, not with what happens. It doesn't align with what happens so much in the episode.

[00:01:49] Not at all. I think a better title would have been something along the lines of like, What Makes A Man?

[00:01:53] Yeah, yeah. If you're gonna go into that.

[00:01:56] I mean, my first note on the, on the, sorry, sorry, go ahead.

[00:02:00] No, I was gonna say just clearly, they want you to be paying attention to Andrea.

[00:02:05] Andrea. Oh, yeah, yeah, I have some notes about Andrea. Don't even don't you don't even worry about that.

[00:02:09] I've got, I've got a lot of notes.

[00:02:11] Most positive, pretty much all positive.

[00:02:15] I've got, I've got a number of positive notes about her.

[00:02:17] No, um, my note about the about the Paramount Plus description as as always is,

[00:02:21] I was not expecting a Nurse Chapel focused episode.

[00:02:24] And I love a good evil science, scientist story.

[00:02:27] And that's, I mean, was this what that was?

[00:02:30] We'll find out.

[00:02:31] If it was, he's not a very good scientist, and we'll get into that.

[00:02:34] But, um, the star date.

[00:02:36] I don't know, I would argue he's a great scientist, but.

[00:02:38] He stole, he stole their own technology.

[00:02:41] That's not a good scientist.

[00:02:43] Stole? Or, or made better?

[00:02:46] I don't think he made it better.

[00:02:48] But anyway, we'll get into that.

[00:02:50] Star date for this episode, 2712.4.

[00:02:53] Show date, still in the year 2266.

[00:02:55] Original air date, October 20th, 1966.

[00:02:58] This episode is written by Robert Block and directed by James Goldstone.

[00:03:02] Fun fact about the title, though.

[00:03:04] This title, the title for this episode, was taken from a 19th century nursery rhyme,

[00:03:09] What Are Little Boys Made Of?

[00:03:10] And fun fact, I made the joke, not realizing that this is the nursery rhyme we get the sugar, spice, and everything nice from.

[00:03:18] Because the first line, the first, it's very short.

[00:03:21] Really?

[00:03:21] It's a short song.

[00:03:23] There are various versions.

[00:03:24] So if this isn't the version you're familiar with, just know there are versions.

[00:03:27] But the most widely accepted version is, what are little boys made of?

[00:03:31] What are little boys made of?

[00:03:32] Snips, snails, and puppy dogs' tails.

[00:03:35] That's what little boys are made of.

[00:03:36] And then he goes, what are little girls made of?

[00:03:39] What are little girls made of?

[00:03:40] Sugar, spice, and everything nice.

[00:03:42] That's what little girls are made of.

[00:03:44] See, I know that as part of another show where they accidentally added another ingredient into the mix.

[00:03:52] Chemical X.

[00:03:54] So I didn't know that that was from.

[00:03:56] That's so fascinating.

[00:03:58] I didn't know that that was a reference to anything.

[00:03:59] That's amazing.

[00:04:00] But this is what you get when you tune into the Final Frontier.

[00:04:04] Sure, you get your Star Trek.

[00:04:05] But I believe in the Charlie X episode, we go into anime for a bit.

[00:04:09] I think so.

[00:04:10] I mean, you learn a little bit about the Whoop Bass Girls.

[00:04:12] Fun fact, that's what the Powerpuff Girls were originally called was the Whoop Bass Girls.

[00:04:16] And I'm just, I'm going ahead and calling the shot because I was watching this episode.

[00:04:19] I saw Android jokes aplenty.

[00:04:21] Be ready for some clips of DBZ abridged in this episode.

[00:04:24] I'm just, I'm just.

[00:04:26] Yeah, I've got a lot of notes about androids.

[00:04:29] It's like, androids, androids, androids.

[00:04:32] Do I hear four?

[00:04:34] Do I hear four androids?

[00:04:36] Our episode begins with the Enterprise traveling to the icy planet X03 to search for the exobiologist

[00:04:42] Dr. Roger Corby.

[00:04:44] Corby is the former fiance of nurse Christine Chappell, who apparently signed on to the Enterprise to search for him.

[00:04:52] Oh, okay.

[00:04:53] I sort of missed that.

[00:04:55] I didn't.

[00:04:56] I didn't get that from the episode.

[00:04:58] That was.

[00:04:59] Oh, okay.

[00:05:01] I just kind of got the vibe that was like, oh, by the way, your missing fiance might be on this planet.

[00:05:06] And it was kind of accidental.

[00:05:08] That really doesn't make sense if you ask me.

[00:05:11] Well, my thing was.

[00:05:12] I'm going to join Starfleet to look for my missing fiance.

[00:05:15] I'm going to join an organization that gives me no say whatsoever in where I go.

[00:05:19] Yeah.

[00:05:20] Well, I just, I didn't get the vibe that when they said fiance, like I got more of a vibe of like, she was his fiance and she's no longer his fiance.

[00:05:29] I didn't get the vibe that they were still together.

[00:05:31] Well, until, until they do a weird 1960s kiss later.

[00:05:34] I've got notes, but it does say former fiance.

[00:05:37] Interesting.

[00:05:38] I was gonna say my first question was about the graphic of the planet.

[00:05:41] I love, I love the little details and I wanted to read them.

[00:05:45] And I went to Google to see if I could find a clean, clean version.

[00:05:47] And I couldn't, I couldn't find it.

[00:05:49] So I was just, do you know, is there a clear version of that graphic?

[00:05:51] Like in a Star Trek, like art book somewhere or like.

[00:05:55] Probably not this episode.

[00:05:56] If I'm recalling correctly, this episode isn't really one that really strikes the chord as one of the greats with Star Trek fans.

[00:06:05] Um, I'll admit the title, the titles are off putting.

[00:06:08] Did you notice though?

[00:06:10] Um, in the very, very beginning of the episode, there's this, it's the same music, but there's like this, this really kind of awesome.

[00:06:17] Saxophone solo.

[00:06:24] No, I didn't.

[00:06:25] They change it up a bit.

[00:06:26] And I'm just like, which I noticed some stuff with cinematography this episode.

[00:06:31] Yeah.

[00:06:32] There's some different stuff.

[00:06:33] I am a sucker for a sax solo though.

[00:06:35] So I noticed it and I was just like, Oh, I it's, that's weird.

[00:06:38] I didn't because I am too.

[00:06:40] I normally like, there's a lot of movies I've watched recently where I'm like, Oh man, that's some good sax.

[00:06:44] Like, like, yeah, I saw, I'm surprised I missed it.

[00:06:46] I think I was so taken in by the, um, by the, uh, opening of the episode, which, um, number one, I've got a few notes about that opening scene.

[00:06:55] Number one side, Kirk is a science nerd again, unexpected.

[00:06:58] Like the fact that he's a big fan of the scientist made me laugh.

[00:07:01] I was like, Kirk's a Kirk's.

[00:07:03] I forget the doctor's name, but Kirk's a Kirk's a fan boy.

[00:07:05] And then as we go into the theme song, I love the dramatic look everyone gives into at the same time.

[00:07:10] They all give into the camera.

[00:07:11] I'm like, nice.

[00:07:13] Like, like, you're right.

[00:07:15] That was silly.

[00:07:16] And I love it because it was silly.

[00:07:18] Buckle up.

[00:07:20] After making contact with Corby who let's just reiterate here.

[00:07:25] How they said Corby's been missing for what?

[00:07:27] Five years.

[00:07:28] Yeah.

[00:07:29] Yeah.

[00:07:29] Five years.

[00:07:29] They said, yeah.

[00:07:30] So they go to the planet where they know he's been missing.

[00:07:33] So places have gone before Kirk mentions it and they just so happened to get them on the radio this time.

[00:07:39] But anyway, at Corby's request, Kirk and chapel beam down alone to the cavern entrance.

[00:07:45] But Corby is not there to meet them finding the suspicious Kirk has two security officers beamed down from the enterprise.

[00:07:51] One is instructed to stay at the entrance for some reason, and the other accompanies Kirk and chapel.

[00:07:56] Oh, shit. It's a couple of red shirts.

[00:07:58] We're finally going to get to see our first red shirt death.

[00:08:00] My note is lit.

[00:08:01] And I wrote this down.

[00:08:02] I was like, oh, two red shirts alone in a cave.

[00:08:04] What could go wrong?

[00:08:06] And I noticed the red shirt in the in the transport room.

[00:08:09] And I'm like, what's the red shirt?

[00:08:10] It's a red shirt.

[00:08:10] And then I got my my hopes up, got up a little bit and then it panned away.

[00:08:13] And I was like, oh, and then they showed up and I was like, oh, it's the red shirts.

[00:08:18] And then my next note is I've never rooted so hard for a character to die.

[00:08:22] But I was like, oh, we got red shirts.

[00:08:24] But then he orders them to split up and I'm like, oh, they're done.

[00:08:26] They're done.

[00:08:27] Yeah, I get our first right.

[00:08:28] And sure enough.

[00:08:39] Roman Matthews played by Vince.

[00:08:40] I don't know if it's pronounced Dedrick or Dedrick.

[00:08:43] So Vince Dedrick senior is our first ever red shirt.

[00:08:47] We see.

[00:08:48] Technically, we just hear him killed on screen, but.

[00:08:51] Well, OK, but to be fair, I see I've got I've got a few notes until it's confirmed.

[00:08:55] I wasn't because I've had I've had a few close calls on this show.

[00:08:58] So until we get later, it's not confirmed yet.

[00:09:02] Like we like they say he's dead, but he could have he could have survived at the bottom of the ravine.

[00:09:06] We don't know.

[00:09:06] We don't know for sure.

[00:09:08] True.

[00:09:09] However, I am reminded and I can't believe I and what's sad is we mentioned his name in the second.

[00:09:18] No.

[00:09:18] OK, so no, he's technically not the first step we see, but chronologically, as far as the crew goes, technically, the first person we see die in Star Trek minus the first pilot is a Kelso.

[00:09:30] And I think that's beautiful.

[00:09:32] Really?

[00:09:33] That's funny.

[00:09:35] Another note when they're still on the bridge, a nurse chapel asked Spock if he's ever been engaged.

[00:09:40] Turns out which nurse chapel doesn't know this yet.

[00:09:44] In fact, only Spock's no Spock knows this.

[00:09:46] Spock is engaged.

[00:09:47] Spock is engaged since the age of seven.

[00:09:50] You're like I need to do that bit of a bit for me.

[00:09:51] There's an episode.

[00:09:52] I believe it's in season two called Amok Time.

[00:09:55] And because isn't isn't she like a massive?

[00:09:58] Who keeping this because you're trying to keep this as PG as possible.

[00:10:00] Isn't she mean and awful in that the whole thing?

[00:10:03] Oh, my God.

[00:10:04] Well, she's a Vulcan.

[00:10:05] I wouldn't call her mean and awful as far as Vulcans go.

[00:10:08] The problem is she loves another man.

[00:10:10] So I gotcha because I seem to recall something about someone Spock was with and it was like one of those.

[00:10:16] Yeah, it's like an arranged marriage thing and they don't actually like each other.

[00:10:18] I yeah, I mean, I suppose Spock like likes her as much as a Vulcan could.

[00:10:24] She is definitely not down for Spock.

[00:10:28] Interesting.

[00:10:29] She's the one.

[00:10:29] She's the one character.

[00:10:30] He's not down.

[00:10:31] Not down for Spock.

[00:10:32] They're like, how did he how did he go?

[00:10:34] And I've got no.

[00:10:35] Could it have been the immediately suspicious looking guy?

[00:10:38] I mean, perhaps.

[00:10:39] Yeah, and he's pretty suspicious looking.

[00:10:42] The other doctor guy comes out and doesn't seem to care at all that no one just fell to their death.

[00:10:49] Nope.

[00:10:50] It's almost as if almost as if he were robotic.

[00:10:55] Or I was gonna say in on it.

[00:10:56] But yeah, yeah, that too.

[00:10:57] Yeah.

[00:10:58] Well, you know that too.

[00:10:59] Kurt contacts the remaining security offer and tells him to contact the enterprise for reinforcements, which.

[00:11:04] Okay, this is the thing.

[00:11:05] This is just my manager brain coming out.

[00:11:08] I hate it.

[00:11:10] Absolutely hate it.

[00:11:11] Burke's already on the communicator.

[00:11:13] It's totally enterprise to send down reinforcements.

[00:11:15] Don't write.

[00:11:17] Don't tell the other guy to tell somebody else to do something.

[00:11:19] Just do it.

[00:11:21] Right.

[00:11:22] Like especially because he has that.

[00:11:23] I mean, unless they like can't because the caves block it and that's why they needed the additional guys there.

[00:11:30] But you're right.

[00:11:31] You should just easily could have done it himself.

[00:11:33] He has before it would be the first time he's yeah.

[00:11:36] Exactly.

[00:11:37] I don't know.

[00:11:37] I don't know whether or not to call the red flag or just the fact that something was up was the fact that they were all wearing the same colored outfits like that.

[00:11:44] I wasn't sure if it was like a uniform thing or what the deal was.

[00:11:47] That's like they're all.

[00:11:49] Yeah, that's have the same color scheme.

[00:11:51] Is it when you're on a planet you dress similar?

[00:11:54] Okay.

[00:11:54] Okay. Fair enough on some.

[00:11:55] It's not it's not as atypical as you think which obviously the answer that is it saves on wardrobe costs.

[00:12:01] But yeah, in universe, it's it's fairly common for sometimes for people to wear the same if it's not just if it's not an outright uniform and clearly for Andrea's they just ran out of, you know, fabric.

[00:12:11] So I mean, Andrea is immediately putting up red flags like red flag city with Andrea.

[00:12:18] Oh, that must be why I was attracted to her anyway.

[00:12:23] I mean, that's also why I was as well.

[00:12:25] It's not important.

[00:12:26] It's not important.

[00:12:26] It's not important.

[00:12:27] We need to move on.

[00:12:27] This will not end well for me.

[00:12:29] But damn anyway.

[00:12:31] Yeah, a strange creature kills the security officer before he gets the chance.

[00:12:39] Kirk Chapel and Brown find Corby who tells them the caves were left by an extinct race.

[00:12:45] So yeah, that kiss between Corby and Chapel my note literally says hello sailor.

[00:12:49] I was just like number one is oh we're doing a big kiss and number two and this is the note for a lot of just movies and television generally from this era.

[00:12:59] But like why does kissing in old shows and movies like always feel awkward.

[00:13:03] It just looks like they're just mashing like it doesn't look like either of them are really all that into it.

[00:13:07] They're just kind of mashing their faces together.

[00:13:09] And to be fair, I watched a lot of movies from this era like anything with I think I mentioned it before but like anything with Jimmy Stewart like he just like the way he kisses women is weird and awkward and that's what this reminded me of for him like they just don't seem like they're attracted to each other.

[00:13:25] I don't know.

[00:13:26] Maybe it's just me.

[00:13:28] So there's another interesting kiss later on.

[00:13:32] There's a few.

[00:13:33] Yeah, or be shows Kirk and Chapel machinery to create androids with the help of Rook which is the big Frankenstein looking dude.

[00:13:41] Oh, yeah, that was another head earlier if he reminded me of Frankenstein like generally reminded me like that I like that with that character particular.

[00:13:48] Also, I have a note that says he reminds me of a golem.

[00:13:51] Like you really reminds me of a golem.

[00:13:53] I like his design.

[00:13:54] I like the way he looked and I like the way he operated.

[00:13:56] I've got some further notes later on about him, but I quite like him.

[00:13:59] I like I liked him as a character and I'm actually going to go ahead and take care of this.

[00:14:03] So somebody doesn't this rate us in the comments.

[00:14:05] I mean Frankenstein's monster.

[00:14:08] I know Frank.

[00:14:08] Well, I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna be one of those.

[00:14:11] I'm actually guys because that's what the show is for technically speaking.

[00:14:15] Yeah, technically speaking, he would be Frankenstein because as as Frankenstein's technical offspring, his surname would in fact be Frankenstein.

[00:14:24] So technically he would also be Frankenstein.

[00:14:27] The non the Frankenstein without the doctorate.

[00:14:31] Mr. Frankenstein.

[00:14:32] Mr. Frankenstein.

[00:14:33] Yeah, exactly.

[00:14:34] He would just be Mr. Frankenstein or Frank, you know, as lots of things like to call him.

[00:14:38] You know, he's a real he's a real down to earth fella.

[00:14:41] Hey, man, if you've ever seen the original movies, not that bad a guy.

[00:14:44] I have.

[00:14:44] I actually really which and actually I need to read the novel, but I I'm given to understand from people that I know have read the novel.

[00:14:50] You're kind of like, yeah, Frankenstein.

[00:14:52] The doctor is kind of he's a bad guy.

[00:14:55] He's a massive.

[00:14:56] They actually it's funny.

[00:14:56] I've never you familiar with the show wishbone.

[00:15:00] I love wishbone.

[00:15:01] I knew you were going to say that.

[00:15:02] Oh, the only reason I've ever read Frankenstein and Dr.

[00:15:05] Jekyll and Mr.

[00:15:06] Hyde is because wishbone released a series of books that dumbed down those stories for kids.

[00:15:11] So I've seen and then it was more or less a faithful adaptation of that story.

[00:15:15] Yeah, we did it.

[00:15:16] We talked about it on my other show.

[00:15:18] And that shows hilarious because everyone's giving a thousand ten percent and they're acting against a little Russell Terrier.

[00:15:24] And like the voice actor for the Terrier is given it at all.

[00:15:27] And it's amazing.

[00:15:28] The Frankenstein episodes is genuinely good.

[00:15:30] But yeah, Frankenstein sucks.

[00:15:32] Actually, what's interesting about Frankenstein really quick is that the movie, the first two movies are actually the book split in half.

[00:15:40] So like all this stuff involving the monster being a misunderstood creature and all that stuff, that's actually in the second movie, interestingly enough.

[00:15:47] But yeah, this character reminds me of Frankenstein, right?

[00:15:50] Especially as the episode goes on Frankenstein's monster really reminds me of Frankenstein's monster.

[00:15:54] Like, yeah, like even even like the later stuff really reminded me of it.

[00:16:00] Fun fact, though.

[00:16:01] And this you'll go.

[00:16:02] Oh, yeah.

[00:16:03] Rook is played by Ted Cassidy, who played Lurch in the 1964 Addams Family series.

[00:16:09] Oh, yeah, you're right.

[00:16:10] Oh, yeah, because he was a he looked like a big dude.

[00:16:14] I was gonna be my question.

[00:16:14] Is he that big?

[00:16:16] Yes.

[00:16:16] Or is he being made up to look that big?

[00:16:17] And in the scenes where he's picking Shatner up?

[00:16:20] That's unassisted.

[00:16:21] He's actually picking him up.

[00:16:22] He's actually-

[00:16:23] No way!

[00:16:24] Shatner's helping him to a point.

[00:16:26] Yeah.

[00:16:27] But it's something he can physically do.

[00:16:29] Because we're about to get to that first fight between them.

[00:16:31] And I've got a bunch of notes on it.

[00:16:33] And my God, it's it's kind of amazing.

[00:16:36] Like just don't do him lifting him up and like the core off as I mean, as a lover of professional

[00:16:41] wrestling, I'm sure you appreciate good like, like, I'm like, man.

[00:16:47] Yeah, that it's really it's real good stuff.

[00:16:49] They're really they're really making it look believable.

[00:16:51] Yeah, that's the vibe I got.

[00:16:53] Honestly, I was like, oh, okay.

[00:16:54] Um, he could have totally gone into pro wrestling.

[00:16:57] They were they were that good.

[00:16:58] But with the help of Rook, a still functioning android from the time of the original inhabitants

[00:17:03] of the planet, Corby has created more androids, one being a beautiful woman called Andrea.

[00:17:08] And it's like, yeah, Android Andrea.

[00:17:10] I get it.

[00:17:11] Oh, I didn't get that.

[00:17:13] I told him she said it after being shot by a phaser.

[00:17:16] Brown is also revealed to be an Android.

[00:17:18] So I'm pretty sure that's three Android.

[00:17:20] Do I have all and that?

[00:17:21] Yeah, I got the assistant was a robot.

[00:17:24] Oh, I mean, I wasn't shocked.

[00:17:26] And it is also revealed that Rook had killed the security officers.

[00:17:29] So we officially have two dead red shirts.

[00:17:34] Um, speaking of the fight choreography, we get a random Kirk roll.

[00:17:38] Yeah, I've obviously have a note about the Kirk roll was a Kirk roll.

[00:17:41] And I was like, that felt unnecessary, but I don't care.

[00:17:44] It's it's still one.

[00:17:45] Yeah, I said the fight between Kirk and the big guys fun.

[00:17:48] It's a fun fight.

[00:17:49] Like it really is.

[00:17:50] Yeah, the fact that it was unnecessary is what makes it awesome.

[00:17:53] That is what it did.

[00:17:54] And my favorite part is he does it.

[00:17:56] And even he looks like like he's like, why did I do that?

[00:17:58] I didn't need to do that.

[00:17:59] He does have that look.

[00:18:01] And then I also have a note when Andrea kisses Kirk and then slaps him.

[00:18:05] Shatner looks into it.

[00:18:06] That's all I'm saying.

[00:18:07] I mean, yeah, yeah, I got a lot of notes about Kirk and Andrea.

[00:18:10] Yeah, I, but my note about Andrea number one, I've got to my first notice.

[00:18:16] Her outfit is very revealing for the 1960s and it looks like she's cold.

[00:18:20] If you catch my drift.

[00:18:23] Well, what's funny is they actually apparently they had to have a sensor on set to make sure obviously that the wardrobe was covering that there was no side boob visible and that her nipple.

[00:18:34] Wow.

[00:18:35] Showing which clearly on the last one that may have been the wardrobe.

[00:18:40] It honestly may have been the I had a feeling it.

[00:18:42] I'm not going to lie to you.

[00:18:44] I rewrote that note three to four times trying to find a way trying trying to find a tactful way to say that to say it and I then and it must be cold was the best one I could do.

[00:18:54] It is an ice planet.

[00:18:56] It is a nice plan.

[00:18:57] And then I thought well, I might just be the shirt and I might gross for pointing that out.

[00:19:01] I don't I just I was just I was like this is unusually sexy not only for this show but for the era.

[00:19:06] I think it's really my because every like most of the wardrobe on the show has been like varying degrees of this.

[00:19:13] Yeah, and I haven't really gotten a well and it's also worth noting that the skirts of the enterprise female crew members are now granted they're wearing.

[00:19:21] Obviously, they're wearing something underneath them, but those are very very short skirts.

[00:19:25] True true.

[00:19:26] That is true.

[00:19:26] This was the one where she walked in.

[00:19:28] I went whoa.

[00:19:29] This is a decidedly different show.

[00:19:31] I went whoa.

[00:19:32] This is not for children.

[00:19:35] Right, right, right.

[00:19:37] Oh, yeah.

[00:19:37] So then I guess I'll wear it's revealed to the robot.

[00:19:40] So then I obviously wrote down.

[00:19:42] So Dr. Corbin built a sex robot.

[00:19:44] That's which I love that.

[00:19:46] They actually so I forget exactly when in the episode it happens, but they clearly knew that's what people were going to because later on at some point in the episode, the good doctor actually said makes it a point to say because Chapel says something snarky and he makes it a point to say she's not capable of doing that.

[00:20:02] And I'm like, well, at least they're acknowledging the elephant in the room.

[00:20:06] Oh, I see.

[00:20:07] I missed that because that entire scene.

[00:20:09] It just felt like but okay, I missed it.

[00:20:11] But then I don't want to give once once the big spoiler happens, then I'm like, oh, okay, then no, it clearly not.

[00:20:17] But this scene really really felt like it was like, oh, he especially with the stop calling me by my first name stuff.

[00:20:24] Like I thought for sure it was like, yeah, he built her to bang.

[00:20:27] I think I think he built a sex robot.

[00:20:30] But speaking of sex robot, the minute she walked in the room, I'm just like, oh, Kirk's gonna kiss an Android.

[00:20:37] It's gonna happen.

[00:20:38] I mean, yeah, yeah.

[00:20:41] No, it's okay.

[00:20:42] So now that we're talking about the androids, I have I have a few universe questions regarding androids.

[00:20:46] So in universe, have they do androids not exist in this universe set up until this point?

[00:20:52] I'm honestly not sure because this is the first time that we see androids in Star Trek.

[00:20:57] It won't be the last.

[00:20:58] It's kind of implied by the fact that nobody's really shocked that it's a thing that exists.

[00:21:04] It may not be super widespread, but it's a thing that's been done.

[00:21:08] I thought maybe that the notion of the transferring human consciousness and android body move that because they all seem like this was a new thing.

[00:21:15] So that was what leads me to my question for that.

[00:21:17] Is this the technology or this stuff is that would would be what would become data because I know data in particular is it was built and created by a particular guy.

[00:21:27] And I know that he also made an evil data.

[00:21:29] But is this what would become data?

[00:21:32] Is that the idea?

[00:21:32] See, I'm not sure in universe.

[00:21:34] I mean, yeah, I'm not sure.

[00:21:36] And here's the thing.

[00:21:38] This is where if you know because I'm not going to criticize the episode for this because obviously they didn't know about the show that would be made 21 years later.

[00:21:48] Yeah, the future.

[00:21:51] But when you're making when you're making the next generation, you know, this episode is this.

[00:21:55] This episode presents the idea that androids can be created with a machine that an Android making machine and then you can transfer human consciousness into one.

[00:22:06] So my question would be if this machine exists, why would you need to go to the trouble of building one from scratch like he did with data?

[00:22:13] Interesting. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:22:14] I mean, I have a I have I have a whole breakdown of the Android making process.

[00:22:19] And when we get to the Android making process that I'd like to go through with you and and you can tell me if I've missed a step here.

[00:22:25] Well, we're there. So Corby creates an Android duplicate of Kirk as Chapel looks on.

[00:22:29] Do I hear five?

[00:22:32] So many questions.

[00:22:34] Yeah. OK, so let me let me just run through as I see it, the process of making an Android.

[00:22:38] Now, I didn't realize it was Kirk at first.

[00:22:41] So you're going to you're just gonna have to understand that I didn't recognize it as Kirk at first.

[00:22:44] OK, so OK, so here's the process of making an Android as I understand it.

[00:22:49] Step number one, strap a naked and confused man to a table.

[00:22:52] Step number two, also strap a strange goo person to the table.

[00:22:57] Step number three, separate them by a metal barrier so they can't see each other.

[00:23:00] You better make sure your table spins.

[00:23:03] Step five, spin them a lot.

[00:23:07] And then obviously step number six is the goo man becomes the man who is naked at first.

[00:23:11] Did I miss anything there?

[00:23:13] No, that seems to be the process.

[00:23:14] My note is how does spinning really fast make an Android?

[00:23:18] Right with the goo man.

[00:23:19] He already had the goo man.

[00:23:21] Where did the goo man come?

[00:23:22] Did he make the goo man?

[00:23:23] I have so many questions.

[00:23:25] That's got to be like a universal mold.

[00:23:27] And then the machine somehow scans and replicates.

[00:23:32] But this is clearly not they clearly made this apparatus not thinking anybody was going to be like, this makes no sense.

[00:23:42] Well, I mean, no, it doesn't.

[00:23:45] It would have made far more sense if we had walked into the room and then there was the two Kirks on a table and it was like transferring it into the I don't.

[00:23:52] Yeah, I don't need to like like nobody.

[00:23:53] I mean, to be fair, you brought up Dragon Ball Z, but like no, nobody, nobody questions why the androids and that looked like the way they do.

[00:24:01] But like I am now because I'm seeing the goo that it starts off as like really you don't watch Doctor Who, but there's an episode called about gangers.

[00:24:10] They're called gangers, but they're like doppelgangers and they're effectively made out of this goo and you they replicate the person that touches it basically.

[00:24:19] And the idea is this goo does this the dangerous shit that you don't want to do, but it pretty much perfectly replicates you.

[00:24:27] So like the question by the end of the episode is like, who's real? Who's not real? Is the gang or the real person?

[00:24:32] It has all the memories and it is effectively the same like made of the same structure.

[00:24:37] So is he the real and that that that's the question of the episode?

[00:24:40] Whereas this I'm just like I'm asking a lot of questions about the goo that's not being answered.

[00:24:44] Like especially once you know, once you know that he didn't originate this technology, like maybe if he had originated the technology, I'd have less questions.

[00:24:53] I don't know because like I'm with you it. It would make more sense and be cheaper because that spinny table.

[00:25:00] I mean rudimentary expensive. Yeah, yeah, rudimentary, but it still would have been expensive because theoretically it was motorized because we didn't see anybody, you know, it would have made a lot more sense for them to just walk into a room and see two Kirk's with yeah hooked up to machines and then one opens its eyes and it's like I'm Captain Kirk.

[00:25:18] Which one is the real one? I don't know.

[00:25:19] Did he need to be naked? Was that like an important bit of it? Like I just there's just so many of the questions of the process here that are just not answered.

[00:25:28] And it's like, yeah, you could just be like he's mechanically like you don't need to explain why a metal person looks like Kirk.

[00:25:34] It just does like you don't need to explain the one this kind of explain especially with the questions, the morality questions that wants to ask later on.

[00:25:42] Like it didn't need to ask these. It didn't need to make me ask these questions.

[00:25:46] Well, and then I have to follow up questions which call into question the longevity of his plan.

[00:25:51] So it's like yes as of right now it's an exact duplicate of Kirk, but it's an Android so it's not going to age.

[00:25:57] So if your goal is to like secretly place these androids into society after 10 after 510 years people are going to figure it out in questions.

[00:26:06] But then again, we still have Tom Cruise and true, but also his plan was to slowly reveal their the nature of their existence.

[00:26:14] So in the course of those 10 years people would be and his idea what was to supplant regular people with the Android people and pretend that they were normal people which they're not which we're going to get into as we talk about robot Kirk because I got some thoughts about robot Kirk.

[00:26:28] And then second question if Corby creates androids by duplicating people.

[00:26:34] What happened to the first Andrea or the first or the first assistant as well?

[00:26:40] I my next notice is this is the original assistant dead because presumably that's true but Andrea's existence because we know where root came from.

[00:26:48] He's an original that is not created by the good doctor, but everyone else has been duplicated.

[00:26:54] He said we I said she was one of his crew.

[00:26:57] I mean you would you would assume so but it's never answer.

[00:27:03] Also the implication there is that the original Andrea is dead.

[00:27:07] Right, right.

[00:27:08] So so he's supposed to because okay Ruck is a different design design for lack of a better word.

[00:27:15] He's a different he's different than the rest of them.

[00:27:17] And also how did he manage to reprogram them and did okay.

[00:27:20] Well, I don't want to give away the big spoiler yet.

[00:27:21] We're not we're not there yet, but there's a big spoiler coming and we're going to talk about that because it makes the rest of the episode not make a lick of fucking sense.

[00:27:28] We're going to get there.

[00:27:29] But Kirk's personality is imprinted onto the Android duplicate and the real Kirk.

[00:27:33] Oh, as this is happening, the real Kirk imagined himself insulting spot as a half breed.

[00:27:39] Yeah, I saw that apparently Kirk is a closet racist.

[00:27:42] I accidentally but closest racist but closet racist.

[00:27:45] No, I actually put in mind because there's two sides to this coin, right?

[00:27:48] It's it's actually pretty clever on Kirk's part.

[00:27:51] However, he's making a major assumption here.

[00:27:54] He just happens to be right.

[00:27:55] It's relying on the assumption that the machine copies what's in his mind at that particular moment, not actually mapping out his entire brain and making a copy of that.

[00:28:06] Okay, if that was the case, that wouldn't work.

[00:28:08] So it's an imperfect process.

[00:28:12] So so so week.

[00:28:13] So Kirk intentionally thought the racist thing so that when they fake that feels okay, that feels I don't want to say lazy in terms of writing.

[00:28:23] That feels hella contrived, right?

[00:28:25] Contrived is maybe the word I would use where it's like so I always use this phrase, but I guess it's more pro that feels like a level of 3d chess that so he thought he had the thought that he's going to take this fake Kirk and send him onto the enterprise.

[00:28:38] And I need Spock to know that this isn't me.

[00:28:41] So I'm going to think a really racist thing so that so that making a lot of assumptions right now.

[00:28:48] You know what I do now that now that you've said that the ending of the episode does imply that the way he's like, we'll get there.

[00:28:55] But they tell you right.

[00:28:56] It does sort of imply that he did have.

[00:28:57] But that's so that is so good.

[00:29:00] Yeah, that's a real, real big stretch.

[00:29:03] But we real quick before we get to Kirk is a closet racist.

[00:29:06] There was one note about the relationship between the nurse and the doc that I want to draw attention to my 2024 sensibilities don't like that he was a teacher and she was a student power dynamic there makes me uncomfy.

[00:29:17] Don't like that at the university level.

[00:29:20] And it's implied that they didn't.

[00:29:23] Well, I guess it's not implied.

[00:29:25] I guess I just kind of assumed because I see the good and situations.

[00:29:28] Okay, never mind.

[00:29:29] We're just not going to go there.

[00:29:30] Yeah, I said it and you didn't think about until I said it.

[00:29:34] You're like, you're right.

[00:29:36] That is bad.

[00:29:37] That happens with Jordan all the time where he goes.

[00:29:39] No, it's not that.

[00:29:39] Oh, yeah, no, it's probably kind of bad, isn't it?

[00:29:42] It's one of those things.

[00:29:43] It's great.

[00:29:43] It's certainly not illegal, but it's not good.

[00:29:47] No, it's not.

[00:29:48] It's not good.

[00:29:48] It's definitely a dynamic that but this is one of those like there's certain moments when I watch stuff from back in the day where I'm like back in the 1960s.

[00:29:57] They wouldn't have really possibly be like, ooh, at least I don't think they would have not not in the way we do today.

[00:30:01] But so this one more thought on that.

[00:30:04] If Kirk first operating under that assumption.

[00:30:06] So if that's the assumption, just think in the moment instead of you know, like the stupid half the half breed comment think like Spock, you need to come down to the planet.

[00:30:16] We need help.

[00:30:17] Yeah, something some but I guess maybe maybe he his thought was the the the the the racist thing was going to be now that I didn't even realize that I guess that plan, but it's just jarring enough to be a red flag.

[00:30:30] I think well, and I guess it's not such a red flag that it would make the Android or the doctor.

[00:30:35] They'd be like, oh, so Kirk's a closet racist who knew?

[00:30:37] Yeah, exactly.

[00:30:39] Okay, so I'll give him that.

[00:30:40] That's a heck that's that's a heck of a stretch or a leap of faith.

[00:30:44] But I think I agree with you.

[00:30:46] It's very contrived that I will say that I will agree with.

[00:30:48] I just assumed I went.

[00:30:49] Oh, I thought I thought like when I was transferring his consciousness, I thought that that was like his latent thoughts being transferred.

[00:30:56] I didn't it didn't even occur to me that that was intentional.

[00:30:58] So you said it the scene afterward.

[00:31:01] We also learned for the first Kirk's brother is mentioned for the first time.

[00:31:05] We learned that Kirk is not an only child.

[00:31:07] He is in the Kelvin timeline, but interesting.

[00:31:10] So this is so that we're at that.

[00:31:12] We're at the double Kirk, the double Kirk dinner.

[00:31:14] Yes.

[00:31:15] So Kirk may have made a really big leap of faith, but going with this sponsor is most certainly not.

[00:31:23] Oh, hey, everyone.

[00:31:24] Um, your chronometer must be running backwards because I'm actually editing this episode right now.

[00:31:29] I wanted to take a second to tell you about some of the other great podcasts on the RTA podcast network.

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[00:31:45] I will say hearing though, like if she's charged with that, that's a federal crime.

[00:31:48] She's well, not not.

[00:31:50] She could be charged in the Georgia sense.

[00:31:53] However, I mean, make a example of her too.

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[00:32:40] And that is hi, I'm Catherine Long here.

[00:32:43] Hi there.

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[00:32:56] The name of the podcast is clearly May the 4th.

[00:33:01] We never say Star Trek.

[00:33:02] When we have a special Star Trek, I'm all yours.

[00:33:05] I'm all pointy ears as fuck.

[00:33:08] I'm all about being a smart ass.

[00:33:10] I'm really cool.

[00:33:10] I love Captain Kirk.

[00:33:13] But this is a Star Wars.

[00:33:15] You see what is in the back?

[00:33:16] I do.

[00:33:17] Look at that.

[00:33:17] I do.

[00:33:18] And I'm sorry.

[00:33:19] I don't care how many X-wings you have.

[00:33:21] None of them stand a chance against the Starship Enterprise.

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[00:33:58] that are going to be launching later this year.

[00:34:00] So keep an eye out for that.

[00:34:01] You can see all the podcasts on the RTA Podcast Pantheon at rtmedia.org and click on podcasts.

[00:34:08] And now, back to the show.

[00:34:11] Okay.

[00:34:11] Corby has the duplicate Kirk beamed aboard the Enterprise with orders to identify a planet

[00:34:15] suitable for creating more androids.

[00:34:17] When Spock questions Android Kirk's orders, it repeats the insult Kirk had used before his

[00:34:22] mind was copied.

[00:34:23] Spock, realizing that this is not Kirk, forms a security team and follows Android Kirk back

[00:34:29] down to X03.

[00:34:30] Kirk has an encounter with Andrea, an encounter, where he kisses her again and then is more

[00:34:36] passionate.

[00:34:37] This confuses Andrea as she begins feeling but is not programmed to do so.

[00:34:44] And this is where it starts to unravel.

[00:34:46] The whole thing starts to unravel.

[00:34:48] So I've got a few notes about the double Kirk dinner.

[00:34:50] I mean, obviously the first note is another double Kirk.

[00:34:54] I had this, this quite this note is going to come up a few times, but could the androids

[00:34:58] pass the touring test?

[00:34:59] Keep that in mind because I'm going to ask that question a few times.

[00:35:02] Kirk on Kirk action.

[00:35:04] And then I said the body double walking away from dinner does not look like Shatner.

[00:35:09] Oh, and then Kirk leaps to murder really fast.

[00:35:13] I fully believe that Kirk would have done it.

[00:35:15] Yeah, probably.

[00:35:16] Are we, are we, wait, are we at the, the Kirk is trying to escape from, uh, yeah, we are.

[00:35:20] We are.

[00:35:21] We are.

[00:35:21] We're trying to escape from the, the, what's his face rock?

[00:35:24] Uh, that purple thing that Kirk was holding looks like a dick.

[00:35:26] Yeah, it is.

[00:35:27] So somewhat phallic, phallic, uh, might I love, I love Shatner's performance as robot.

[00:35:32] Kirk, it's suitably robotic.

[00:35:34] Like it definitely like the ways he's pretty, but he's a little slightly more inhuman with

[00:35:39] his like behaviors.

[00:35:39] I really, I really enjoyed it.

[00:35:41] I was like, he's doing, he's doing a different thing with this Kirk.

[00:35:44] I quite liked it.

[00:35:44] I really liked the cinematography when Kirk walked down the hallway, the robot Kirk walked

[00:35:48] down the hallway from spark.

[00:35:49] How was she?

[00:35:50] How it was shaky.

[00:35:51] That was so cool.

[00:35:52] I was like, Oh man, I freaking love that.

[00:35:54] That's awesome.

[00:35:54] Well, I'm like, I've really enjoyed that.

[00:35:57] And the thing people have to realize is that in the sixties cameras were quite a bit bigger.

[00:36:00] Like today, that sort of shaky cam.

[00:36:02] Oh, it's easy.

[00:36:03] Yeah.

[00:36:04] It's do that back in the sixties would be very difficult.

[00:36:07] And it's very, it really, it's really meant to illustrate that this is not Kirk and it's

[00:36:12] really effective.

[00:36:13] It's in my opinion, this version of Kirk, it's different and it's better than, and I'm

[00:36:20] disappointed with its outcome because it's, I think it's much better than evil.

[00:36:24] The previous evil Kirk we saw.

[00:36:25] This is another double evil Kirk.

[00:36:27] I much prefer him.

[00:36:28] I enjoyed his self-awareness.

[00:36:30] He knows he's a machine.

[00:36:31] Like there's no question of like, he's Kirk, but he's off.

[00:36:35] And I liked that.

[00:36:36] I was like, Oh, it's really, I was really compelling to me.

[00:36:38] I was like, that's so interesting.

[00:36:40] Yeah.

[00:36:40] But, uh, so when Kirk has the encounter with Andrea, my first reaction was, Whoa, I mean,

[00:36:45] he got very handsy.

[00:36:47] Yeah.

[00:36:47] I just said, um, oh yeah, I said, Spock knows something is up.

[00:36:51] Maybe it was the racism.

[00:36:53] Um, and then I said, uh, of course, Kirk makes out with her.

[00:36:56] I just feel like that was Shatner's one, one note.

[00:36:59] He walked onto the set and he was like, Yup, that's happening.

[00:37:02] Spock did mine.

[00:37:03] No, right.

[00:37:04] He's like, I, I, he just went to this, did the writer anyone, you need to write in a scene

[00:37:08] where I kiss her.

[00:37:10] Yeah.

[00:37:10] Yeah.

[00:37:11] At least that more than once, more than once.

[00:37:13] And I need to be into it the second time.

[00:37:15] Yeah.

[00:37:16] Although he seemed like he was trying to make a point.

[00:37:18] I don't, I don't know.

[00:37:19] Kirk is rizzing a robot hard.

[00:37:21] Like he really is.

[00:37:23] Oh, um, my other question, cause is this, is this, is this going to be important in a

[00:37:28] minute?

[00:37:28] Was this before Isomoff's, uh, laws of robotics, you know?

[00:37:34] Um, I don't remember what year that was.

[00:37:36] I want to say after, but this would indicate before.

[00:37:40] Yeah.

[00:37:40] To me it indicates, it indicates before because it definitely did, but I, and what's interesting

[00:37:45] about Isomoff's, do you want to explain what I, I, Isomoff's laws of robotics for those

[00:37:50] of the audience who may not know?

[00:37:51] I don't know if I'll explain it correctly, but I'll give it a rule.

[00:37:53] So basically it's the laws in which robots must behave.

[00:37:57] Like for example, it's like robots cannot harm or kill a human being, uh, except in self-defense.

[00:38:02] But I think that was an amendment.

[00:38:04] Yeah.

[00:38:04] And they can't, they can't, uh, do anything that would allow a human to come into harm.

[00:38:08] Correct.

[00:38:09] But they, they have to self-preserve.

[00:38:11] Yeah.

[00:38:12] They're not supposed to lie either.

[00:38:13] Right.

[00:38:13] Unless it's self-preservation or something like that or preserving a human life.

[00:38:18] Or preserving a human life.

[00:38:19] Which I love.

[00:38:19] I really love that as a storytelling device because it, I don't, there's probably an academic

[00:38:25] term for this, but when you give a writer restrictions to me, it's, it results in a better

[00:38:32] story.

[00:38:33] I tend to agree.

[00:38:34] Yeah.

[00:38:34] Because it would be very easy.

[00:38:36] It's very easy to just be like, Oh, a man killing robot.

[00:38:39] But when you have laws that govern them and then you get great stories like I robot.

[00:38:43] Cause that, that's at the center of, I am the matrix too, because that's how, um, that's

[00:38:49] how it starts out.

[00:38:49] The animatrix is a fantastic.

[00:38:52] Yep.

[00:38:52] I guess that's interesting.

[00:38:54] Yeah.

[00:38:54] Sort of.

[00:38:55] Yeah.

[00:38:55] It's interesting about, um, it's an anthology.

[00:38:58] Well, I, yeah, it's a, it's a, um, so what I'm looking for.

[00:39:02] Yeah.

[00:39:03] Anthology is the best one I could think of.

[00:39:04] I quite liked the animatrix.

[00:39:05] That was good, but I thought it was great.

[00:39:06] Most, most stories involving robots in the modern age post post, uh, the Rose laws of

[00:39:12] robotics always use the laws of robotics.

[00:39:14] It's very strange.

[00:39:14] It's a pretty consistent storytelling device that most stories involving.

[00:39:18] So that's why I went does this because, um, these characters violate them a ton.

[00:39:25] So we're gonna, we're, I'm actually gonna look this up for everybody.

[00:39:28] Uh, when was this?

[00:39:29] Oh, okay.

[00:39:30] So this was post, uh, the best known settlers are Isaac Asimov's three laws of robotics.

[00:39:34] These were introduced in his 1942 short story run around.

[00:39:38] Oh, they were, they were foreshadowed in an earlier stories of his, but they were codified

[00:39:43] in that book.

[00:39:48] Uh, two, a robot must obey the orders given to it by human beings, except where such orders

[00:39:54] would conflict with the first law.

[00:39:56] And three, a robot must protect its own existence.

[00:39:58] As long as such protection does not conflict with the first or second laws.

[00:40:03] Like, like Robocop, for example, his directives are pretty much the, the, the laws of robotics.

[00:40:09] Yeah.

[00:40:09] Yep.

[00:40:10] Like it informs a lot of robots storytelling going forward.

[00:40:13] That's such a good point.

[00:40:15] Thank you for bringing that up.

[00:40:16] That's a very good point.

[00:40:17] I, my answer to that would be since this is clearly after obviously the, the writers

[00:40:21] of the show were just ignoring it, but in universe, you just make the case that the

[00:40:26] doctors are renegade.

[00:40:27] And so his androids would have never learned the laws of robotics.

[00:40:30] Well, sure.

[00:40:31] And, and to be fair, ultimately the point of it is that, um, they, they went, um, I forget

[00:40:39] what the, I forget what the, what the thing is in iRobot, but Skynet for lack of a better

[00:40:43] word.

[00:40:44] Like the, the, uh, the, or even to go to take it to the Orville.

[00:40:47] Uh, they become the, the, um, spoiler alert for the Orville.

[00:40:50] The Kaylon.

[00:40:51] Yeah.

[00:40:52] I don't like giving that, that, that went away because, uh, because that's a really good

[00:40:55] twist and you should not know that choice when you watch the Orville.

[00:40:58] Yeah.

[00:40:59] Good twist.

[00:40:59] I just, ah, I remember that episode.

[00:41:01] I was like, I love it.

[00:41:02] I love it.

[00:41:02] I love it.

[00:41:03] I does not see it coming.

[00:41:04] It was kind of brilliant.

[00:41:06] In one episode, they turn Isaac from a comedic Spock ripoff to one of the most engaging characters

[00:41:12] on the show.

[00:41:13] Yeah.

[00:41:14] They, they, they remind me of, again, I don't keep going to Dr.

[00:41:17] Who, but they remind me of the Daleks in the sense that they're very silly looking.

[00:41:20] They're very, they're very dumb looking, but they are some of the most frightening science

[00:41:24] fiction creations I've ever seen.

[00:41:26] Like they're like, they're genuine, but this hit them rocks story reminded me of that.

[00:41:33] Whereas like, yeah, they took a lot of shit and then eventually they just snapped and

[00:41:36] they were like, no, I'm not taking no shit.

[00:41:38] That and yet the idea that humans, humans are their own worst enemy and we need that a

[00:41:42] machine will always kind of eventually logically come to that conclusion.

[00:41:45] That idea that it's pretty common science fiction idea.

[00:41:49] Another note.

[00:41:50] I have Sherry Jackson who plays Andrea, uh, said in an interview that, oh, this is where

[00:41:56] I was talking about.

[00:41:56] They had a sensor on set to make sure their costume fully covered her breast and side

[00:41:59] cleavage, uh, was not visible, but she also said of William Shatner quote, I must say when

[00:42:05] he kissed me on screen, he really kissed me.

[00:42:08] Yeah.

[00:42:08] You could tell.

[00:42:09] No, you could tell he was just a little too early.

[00:42:11] It's a little too into it.

[00:42:13] Well, and apparently he, he, he grabbed her arms so forcefully that when they let go, his

[00:42:19] handprints were visible for a little while too.

[00:42:22] Of course he did.

[00:42:23] I mean, I was just like, wow.

[00:42:24] Okay.

[00:42:25] We're yeah.

[00:42:27] Um, yeah, yeah.

[00:42:28] There, there's some PG to PG 13 stuff happening in the last few episodes.

[00:42:32] I'm just, I'm saying that it starts out fairly innocent and then it just escalates like,

[00:42:37] yeah, so quickly is like, whoa, Andrea encounters the Kirk Android when it returns to the planet

[00:42:42] thinking it's the real Kirk.

[00:42:44] She destroys him when he refuses to kiss her.

[00:42:47] And I'm like, yeah, I thought that the, I thought robot Kirk sending was anticlimactic.

[00:42:51] I was disappointed by that.

[00:42:52] I was like, this is, this is where it starts to unravel and not make sense.

[00:42:56] But the immediate reaction I had was, well, androids don't take rejection very well.

[00:43:01] Right.

[00:43:02] Right.

[00:43:02] But yeah, that was my, that was my thing.

[00:43:04] I was just like, oh man, I was, I wanted a big confrontation between the two Kirk's like,

[00:43:08] I don't know, just, just him just getting unceremoniously lasered to death.

[00:43:11] I thought I was just like, well, that's not very, that's not very exciting.

[00:43:14] Is it?

[00:43:15] That's not very interesting.

[00:43:16] But she gives this, this has such interesting, like questions to ask about a robot.

[00:43:20] Like it was asking all the interesting questions about robot Kirk.

[00:43:22] And then he just kind of dies.

[00:43:23] And I was like, well, that's, I kind of wanted him to get away a little bit.

[00:43:27] It would have been really interesting to have him somehow escape and then come back.

[00:43:32] That would have been, that would have been fun to watch.

[00:43:34] Maybe he and like evil Kirk from the enemy within get together and like conspire to take out the real Kirk.

[00:43:40] Kirk.

[00:43:41] And that would be kind of, or even if him into, to, I mean, we basically get to mirror universe Kirk.

[00:43:45] If him and mirror universe Kirk would have joined, he joins in on the action too.

[00:43:49] Like, or, or maybe, maybe, I mean, if, if like, maybe, maybe mirror verse Kirk has his own robot Kirk and in his universe, he like, he, he took robot Kirk with him.

[00:43:58] I smell a fan fiction.

[00:44:02] Badass.

[00:44:03] I mean, I, I mean, look, I love my, I love a mirror universe.

[00:44:05] They're always fun to play with.

[00:44:06] The real Kirk convinces Rook that Corby is a threat to his existence.

[00:44:10] Rook begins to recall the clash between the old ones and the androids that led to a civilization's demise centuries before.

[00:44:17] So I wrote, so Skynet before Skynet.

[00:44:19] Yeah.

[00:44:20] Yeah, pretty much.

[00:44:21] Well, again, again, it reminds me, I could say of the Klingon.

[00:44:24] Not the Klingon.

[00:44:25] The K-Lon.

[00:44:26] K-Lon.

[00:44:27] Wow.

[00:44:28] I, I, yeah.

[00:44:29] I.

[00:44:30] Similar words, very different species.

[00:44:32] Yeah.

[00:44:32] Very different species.

[00:44:33] Somewhat similar to the Krill.

[00:44:35] But what I like about that is that the Orville, you can see a lot of Star Trek's influence, but I wouldn't say there's a one for one ripoff of much.

[00:44:43] No, because I would have said that the, if we were to make a comparison, I would have said that the Mocklins would be more closer in terms of like culture, culturally there and, and sort of, and kind of design.

[00:44:55] And they're, they're very, the only thing is they're obviously Klingons I don't believe are monospecies.

[00:45:00] No, they are not.

[00:45:01] There are female Klingons and they're, they're out there.

[00:45:03] Corby enters and Rook confronts him, but Corby destroys Rook with a phaser.

[00:45:07] Shortly afterward, in a struggle with Kirk, the skin of Corby's hand is torn, revealing he too is an android.

[00:45:13] No, no, no.

[00:45:14] We found more androids.

[00:45:15] Get on me!

[00:45:16] Hmm.

[00:45:17] Never letting the boy live this one down.

[00:45:18] Well, that was certainly a surprise and so are these great deals from our other fantastic sponsor.

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[00:45:51] It is now revealed that Corby, dying from frostbite, had transferred his mind into an android body.

[00:45:57] He begs Chapel to believe that he is still the same man, but Chapel is repelled by what he has done to himself.

[00:46:04] Andrea, realizing she loves Corby, this is him and in despair, Corby fires Andrea's weapon between the embracing pair destroying them both.

[00:46:13] Why?

[00:46:15] Why?

[00:46:16] Why?

[00:46:16] So like, okay, so I mean obviously I've got the note, oh he's a robot.

[00:46:20] Yes.

[00:46:21] So, so again, it's funny you keep you brought up, uh, uh, uh, Dragon Ball Z of Rich, because there's so many parallels to this.

[00:46:28] But like, how did he put his brain in the robot?

[00:46:33] I...

[00:46:33] Huh.

[00:46:35] How did I do that?

[00:46:36] Did, did, did Rook help him take the brain out of...

[00:46:41] Theoretically.

[00:46:42] Theoretically.

[00:46:43] His body and put it into a new body?

[00:46:46] And so he died, did the other ones die and then...

[00:46:50] Did they die from frostbite first?

[00:46:52] I...

[00:46:54] Like...

[00:46:54] That just makes sense.

[00:46:54] It's just a lot of unanswered questions.

[00:46:57] And it took...

[00:46:58] So, and again, I'm like, so let me get this straight.

[00:47:00] It took Andrea making out with another man to realize that androids can love.

[00:47:04] Right?

[00:47:06] That she was in love with the doctor.

[00:47:08] Okay.

[00:47:09] So, I mean, okay.

[00:47:10] Number one, number one.

[00:47:11] It does ask a lot of questions about the nature of existence.

[00:47:14] Like what makes...

[00:47:16] What is existence?

[00:47:17] What is human consciousness?

[00:47:19] So like, is he...

[00:47:20] He still technically maintains the consciousness of the original doctor, technically.

[00:47:25] And he certainly seems more human than, um, Kirk did.

[00:47:29] Like robot Kirk was very robotic and stilted.

[00:47:32] And like the way he said, like sentences was like weird and off.

[00:47:37] Whereas yeah, the doctor seems human.

[00:47:39] So like, is he human?

[00:47:40] And then, and then my, my, um...

[00:47:42] We also didn't meet the original doctor though.

[00:47:45] It could have been.

[00:47:45] True, but she did.

[00:47:47] Right.

[00:47:47] And she seemed to not, to not be able to tell.

[00:47:50] Fair.

[00:47:51] So I guess, I guess that's, that's my, sort of my final note before we dive into the ending

[00:47:55] and the, in the overall thoughts is do the robots, do the androids pass the Turing test?

[00:48:00] Now, okay.

[00:48:01] Acquaint me with that.

[00:48:02] But I basically use the test to test whether or not a machine can have, can feel emotions.

[00:48:07] I believe if I'm not mistaken.

[00:48:10] Hold on.

[00:48:11] Uh, a test for intelligence in a computer requiring that a human being should be able, unable to

[00:48:16] distinguish the machine from another human being by using the replies or questions put

[00:48:20] to both.

[00:48:21] Oh, so I guess.

[00:48:22] So basically, can you tell if it's human or not?

[00:48:25] I think it depends on the android you're talking about.

[00:48:27] Spock was certainly able to tell relatively quickly, but that was due to Kirk's interference.

[00:48:32] Right.

[00:48:32] So the Kirk one didn't.

[00:48:34] Well, and the vast majority of that would, I guess would be dependent upon, do you know

[00:48:38] there are androids about, you know what I mean?

[00:48:41] True.

[00:48:41] Because if you know, if you know there are androids around, because Andrea is pretty

[00:48:44] obviously an android.

[00:48:46] Yeah.

[00:48:47] Well, not, I mean, not so obviously at first, not to the, not to the crew so much.

[00:48:52] That's true.

[00:48:53] That's true.

[00:48:53] Because we only see she's obviously an android because we've already seen that there's another

[00:48:58] android.

[00:48:59] Yeah, exactly.

[00:49:00] Right.

[00:49:00] And we know androids are about.

[00:49:03] Yeah.

[00:49:04] Like I would say that I would say that the doctor androids certainly passed the touring

[00:49:08] test because, because he fooled that he fooled the chick and Kirk.

[00:49:11] Well, no, but then again, he didn't fool Kirk because Kirk always seemed to suspect

[00:49:15] something was up.

[00:49:15] He seemed to know that he was an android or certainly that there was something.

[00:49:19] He knew something was up, but Rook, Rook technically passes because you don't know he's an android

[00:49:23] until you're told.

[00:49:24] Kirk is expressly told that Rook is an android.

[00:49:27] Well.

[00:49:27] You know he's a monster of some kind.

[00:49:29] Yeah.

[00:49:30] I would be like, I mean, because it's in a universe with aliens.

[00:49:32] Yeah.

[00:49:32] I guess you could argue that he is aliens.

[00:49:34] Um, oh, I did have a note.

[00:49:35] I forgot when we, when we, I skipped over, um, with Rook, uh, the bit where he's imitating

[00:49:41] people that I couldn't tell it.

[00:49:44] Uh, does ADR exist in the 1960s?

[00:49:46] Is that voiceover?

[00:49:47] Yep.

[00:49:48] Okay.

[00:49:48] It does.

[00:49:49] Okay.

[00:49:50] Cause that voiceover though, quite good voiceover.

[00:49:52] Pretty, pretty good with Kirk.

[00:49:54] I wasn't sure because there's a couple of moments where you don't see Kirk's face.

[00:49:57] So I w I wasn't sure if it was just William Shatner was doing the lines and he was just

[00:50:01] mouthing along and they didn't actually have the technology to do ADR yet.

[00:50:05] Um, but then, then he started doing women and I'm like, okay, then maybe it is just voiceover.

[00:50:09] But then I had to thought, oh, maybe they're also just offset just off, off camera doing

[00:50:13] the lines and he's mouthing along.

[00:50:14] Well, but the easiest way to do that though, would be to record the lines first and then

[00:50:17] play them on set so he can get a feel for the tempo.

[00:50:21] So you, you, you'd, you'd pretty much have to do ADR.

[00:50:24] Cause I don't know if you've ever tried this.

[00:50:26] If you try to do like film student ADR, which is having somebody off camera saying the lines

[00:50:32] and then having somebody try to mouth along.

[00:50:34] It's never works.

[00:50:36] Yeah.

[00:50:36] It's very difficult and it never works.

[00:50:38] So the easiest way is to have it prerecorded, play it, let the person doing the mouth movements,

[00:50:42] get a feel for the cadence, which doesn't change.

[00:50:45] And then eventually you get something that's quite at least close, but theirs was spot on.

[00:50:49] It was quite good.

[00:50:50] I, uh, I used to do lip sync content on Tik TOK.

[00:50:53] So I know exactly what you're talking about.

[00:50:54] Yeah.

[00:50:55] Yeah.

[00:50:55] It's, it's way easier to mimic something that's already been recorded.

[00:50:58] And the other note I had after Andrea or after the doctor shoots himself and Andrea, I'm

[00:51:02] like, now that is fear of commitment.

[00:51:05] Right?

[00:51:05] I'm like, why do you have to take her with him?

[00:51:08] For real?

[00:51:08] To yourself, you son of a bitch.

[00:51:10] Right?

[00:51:10] Now we never get to see Andrea or her gorgeous side boob ever again.

[00:51:15] Right.

[00:51:17] Right.

[00:51:18] I mean, he's denying the world a very, very beautiful Android who apparently, I apparently

[00:51:23] is not a sex robot.

[00:51:26] She's totally a sex robot.

[00:51:27] It's definitely a sex robot.

[00:51:29] And that's maybe his protest.

[00:51:30] But, but then I, then I had to thought after it was real.

[00:51:33] He was, I'm like, well, maybe not, maybe not.

[00:51:36] Maybe, maybe he wasn't like, he, maybe.

[00:51:40] So this might be one of Gene Roddenberry's deep seated sexual fantasies coming, making

[00:51:45] it onto the script page again.

[00:51:47] It could be, I would, I would believe it.

[00:51:49] Um, I mean, this sounds like, well, it sounds like he had some fantasies regarding this particular

[00:51:54] actress.

[00:51:55] He certainly seems like he has a thing for women not saying no.

[00:52:01] Who can't say no.

[00:52:03] Can't say, I think that's a more accurate.

[00:52:06] Hmm.

[00:52:07] The thing for women who can't say no.

[00:52:09] I never met the man.

[00:52:10] I wouldn't presume to.

[00:52:12] Is he still alive?

[00:52:13] He's still alive.

[00:52:14] Right.

[00:52:14] Gene, Gene, Ron Barry.

[00:52:15] No.

[00:52:16] When did, when did you run?

[00:52:17] Indeed.

[00:52:18] When did Gene Ron Barry die?

[00:52:19] That's a, I know that you said that.

[00:52:21] I feel like I knew that because he was, he was a real, like, wasn't he like a real tyrannical

[00:52:25] influence over the franchise.

[00:52:26] And like, once he died, they were allowed to do more stuff creatively.

[00:52:30] Or am I mistaken that he died in 1991?

[00:52:34] Oh yeah.

[00:52:34] He tried.

[00:52:35] I know he died.

[00:52:35] Yeah.

[00:52:36] Now that you say that.

[00:52:36] Yeah.

[00:52:36] He, I feel like I knew that he died during, during next generation because he, he wrote

[00:52:41] only wrote like the first season.

[00:52:44] I think.

[00:52:45] No, no.

[00:52:45] He, he was, he was, he was a, he was involved with next generation as well until his death.

[00:52:51] Yeah.

[00:52:51] Yeah.

[00:52:52] But they were still making that show when he died.

[00:52:54] Right.

[00:52:54] Correct.

[00:52:54] Yeah.

[00:52:54] Cause yeah.

[00:52:57] He was one of those things.

[00:52:59] It was one of the, he's one of those creatives where you noticed the franchise.

[00:53:02] You noticed it once he left because it just felt different to my understanding.

[00:53:06] Anyway, better.

[00:53:07] See, I, you, again, you're not the first person I've heard say that.

[00:53:10] Like he, he, he had like a, um, to my, again, to my understanding, a JK Rowling level of like

[00:53:16] control over that franchise where it was like, everything had to go by him.

[00:53:20] You had to check everything with him and he had like a rigid, or if you prefer a George

[00:53:25] RR Martin controller, everything had to go by him and he, that he had to improve it all.

[00:53:30] And he was sometimes a pain in the ass.

[00:53:32] I don't think that's always a bad thing, but it's, it depends on the person.

[00:53:36] Right.

[00:53:36] Cause I would make the case that George RR Martin having that level of control is the

[00:53:40] reason why.

[00:53:41] And I haven't, I have not made it.

[00:53:43] I just started season eight of game of Thrones, but up to this point, it's been following

[00:53:47] the novels with very little derivation.

[00:53:50] Um, and the derivation is approved by George RR Martin.

[00:53:53] I, this is how you get seven amazing seasons of a television show.

[00:53:57] Like what I heard.

[00:54:00] I heard that he gave them the ending and they wrote around it.

[00:54:07] And it, that's why it doesn't make any sense.

[00:54:09] Cause they didn't, they didn't do any of the lead up.

[00:54:12] I watched a really long video about why that last season is bad.

[00:54:16] And, um, the, the, my, my understanding is that they, they just kind of get to conclusions

[00:54:21] without doing any of the work to get to those conclusions.

[00:54:24] From what I've heard, I don't want to give it away if you haven't seen it, but

[00:54:27] I, from what I've heard, what, based on what I know of it, I know what happens.

[00:54:31] I just haven't watched it in the show yet.

[00:54:33] Yeah. I know that he's, he's still making excuses for why he's not finishing that last

[00:54:37] book.

[00:54:38] And he's the spinoffs fault.

[00:54:40] He's too busy counting his money.

[00:54:42] Yeah.

[00:54:43] I said, I heard some people say that he's waiting to die and then, then he'll release it posthumously.

[00:54:48] So no one shits on him for having a bad ending.

[00:54:50] Ooh, maybe, I don't know.

[00:54:52] Spock arrives on the planet with the security force, but finds the crisis is past.

[00:54:56] I actually laughed when this happened.

[00:54:58] So I was like, then why did he even bring Spock in the first place?

[00:55:02] Right. Right.

[00:55:03] He's like, wait a show up 10 minutes late.

[00:55:04] Spock.

[00:55:05] Come on, man.

[00:55:06] Get your shit together.

[00:55:07] For real. What were you doing?

[00:55:08] You said assemble the security team to being down after the captain, the captain had been

[00:55:12] down there for a solid 30 minutes.

[00:55:15] True.

[00:55:16] What are you doing?

[00:55:16] What are you doing?

[00:55:18] What are you doing?

[00:55:18] Because of you, we lost Andrea and the doctor.

[00:55:22] We, we, we lost, we lost Andrea and, and less importantly, the doctor.

[00:55:27] I mean, the doctor was there.

[00:55:29] He was there.

[00:55:30] We didn't really care, but I mean, we lost Andrea Spock.

[00:55:33] I mean, I mean, Kirk and the nurse didn't care anymore.

[00:55:36] He wasn't the doctor.

[00:55:37] And we're like, he's not the doctor.

[00:55:39] We don't care.

[00:55:40] A lot of Android cruelty in this, in this episode.

[00:55:42] Yeah.

[00:55:43] When Spock inquires about Dr. Corby's whereabouts, Kirk replies, Dr. Corby was never here.

[00:55:48] But Chappell decides to stay on with the enterprise and finish out her tour of duty.

[00:55:53] Spock tells Kirk about his dismay of using the term half-breed to warn that something

[00:55:57] was wrong.

[00:55:58] The captain says he will remember this.

[00:55:59] Shouldn't he find himself in a similar situation?

[00:56:02] Yeah.

[00:56:03] I see.

[00:56:03] Once you said that, that I didn't get that.

[00:56:05] That was supposed to be a hint that he did that.

[00:56:06] I just thought he was upset that he said a space racism.

[00:56:09] I'm like, I'd be upset if my captain said a space racism.

[00:56:11] Well, it's often a Spock hoax fun at humans.

[00:56:14] It's kind of, I'm not going to say it's deserved because racism is never deserved, but I'm

[00:56:19] not going to say it's a little tit for tat, don't you think?

[00:56:21] Fair game, I suppose the argument could be made.

[00:56:24] Yeah, I guess.

[00:56:25] My overall feelings of this episode, and we talked about this before we started recording,

[00:56:29] but I didn't like this episode at all.

[00:56:31] I didn't like it.

[00:56:34] Not least of which being no bones, no Scotty, no Sulu.

[00:56:37] Oh, you're, you know what?

[00:56:39] You're right.

[00:56:40] It does lack Sulu and it does lack bones.

[00:56:43] I was so, I, to be fair, you're, I'm, I'm, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a,

[00:56:47] I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a big fan of a double Kirk.

[00:56:48] So that, I think that blinded me.

[00:56:50] That blinded me to, uh, it does make up for it, but you're going to have an episode about

[00:56:55] androids without your chief engineer or your science officer.

[00:56:58] Yeah, that's a fair point.

[00:56:59] Yeah, yeah, that's a fair point.

[00:57:00] I, and, and also I, I, I like the questions it was asking.

[00:57:04] I just didn't think, and to be fair, I think this is a general theme I'm finding with this

[00:57:09] is it doesn't go far enough.

[00:57:11] And that might be the limitations of the storytelling of the era, but I'm like, yeah, there's, there's,

[00:57:17] there's enough there with the androids and the, the questioning, what exactly is, are they like, how close to humans are they?

[00:57:24] Like, especially at the end with the doctor and you find out he's a, he's an android.

[00:57:28] It is, it's, it's the story stuff.

[00:57:31] It makes the story not make any sense retroactively.

[00:57:34] We're like, wait, but why I surely there were better captains.

[00:57:39] Like, like his plan just seems not well thought out considering he's literally a machine, but like the bits where he's trying to like say his feelings and he's like, I could calculate.

[00:57:49] I can, I, and I, I, that was really effective.

[00:57:52] I was like, that was really good.

[00:57:53] And like I said, I really liked robot Kirk.

[00:57:55] Which that, that would explain why he committed suicide.

[00:57:58] Cause he realized that he is in fact not a human anymore.

[00:58:02] He is in fact a machine, but it flies in the face of what's happening to Andrea.

[00:58:08] Yes.

[00:58:08] You're not wrong.

[00:58:11] Yeah.

[00:58:13] Genuine is another question, but she at least perceives it.

[00:58:17] Yeah.

[00:58:17] And I think that's as scientists, if that's indeed what they are, is that not worth exploring?

[00:58:25] Like to take her with them and, and like explore what she is like, like, no, you don't, you're not going to make any more, but it's certainly from a scientific perspective would help you understand the idea and nature of consciousness.

[00:58:36] It says, it's the same thing with, um, in previous episodes with, um, the human, the human, uh, zoo.

[00:58:45] And they, so surely someone in the Federation of Starfleet, whatever, it's going to want to study this and figure out what's happening here.

[00:58:52] Let's study this phenomenon.

[00:58:54] So I like that.

[00:58:55] This is another one of those, I don't know, Kirk not making great, but also to be fair, Kirk just kind of reacts at the, in the last little bits of this episode where he's just kind of there.

[00:59:03] Yeah.

[00:59:04] Like the problem kind of solves itself.

[00:59:06] Uh, unfortunately it's a trend, at least in these first couple of episodes with the exception of the naked time, the issues do kind of tend to resolve themselves.

[00:59:18] I mean, yeah, I guess where no man has gone before Kirk is at least an active part, even if he's not the sole reason.

[00:59:25] Um, but yeah, most of these things just kind of Charlie X is resolved by itself.

[00:59:32] Yeah.

[00:59:33] It just, it seems like a problem that didn't need the enterprise to be solved.

[00:59:38] I mean, I understand that.

[00:59:39] Like there wasn't enough, like I, if maybe there was more of a, if they had gotten on the ship, the fact that it was like going back and forth between the ship, if this had taken place on the ship and they had gotten on the ship somehow.

[00:59:50] Androids are trying, like the doctor beams them up and they're starting to take control.

[00:59:55] Yeah.

[00:59:55] And then all of a sudden it becomes quite a bit more perilous at any point.

[00:59:58] Kirk could have been like beam us up.

[01:00:01] Exactly.

[01:00:01] Or if they maybe replaced more crew members, like instead of killing the red shirts, replace them with androids and then get them on the ship.

[01:00:08] Like that actually would have been a much, that could have made this a two parter and been a lot more interesting.

[01:00:12] But again, yeah, we've got, we've got like 60 years of hindsight.

[01:00:18] Yeah, I know.

[01:00:19] I try not to do that, but I'm like, I'm like, I'm trying, I try not to be like, this is how I would fix this 30 year, 40 year old, 50 year old.

[01:00:25] I think you can do that.

[01:00:26] You just have to acknowledge, because again, DBZ abridged, all the jokes are so funny because you have 20 years of hindsight.

[01:00:33] Exactly.

[01:00:34] Exactly.

[01:00:34] Yeah.

[01:00:34] You are able, capable of going back and being like, yeah, I, I, I, but also like, I try it when I'm, when I'm thinking of something critically, I try to put myself in, I always try to look at like, what do people think of this in a contemporary sense?

[01:00:46] Sure.

[01:00:47] But it's, I think it's useful to say, like, even with my knowledge of what happened after the fact, a few decades later is like, okay, so if you're, you were somebody else's creating a show with a similar vein, you know, Oh, those guys in that podcast made that suggestion.

[01:01:03] That's good.

[01:01:03] I think in my Android story, I'm going to incorporate that room and you know, that's why examining stories, you know, I'm not, we're certainly not tearing it apart at the end of the day.

[01:01:13] Love star Trek.

[01:01:13] I enjoy this observation.

[01:01:15] Yeah.

[01:01:16] Well, my thing with this is the thing that made me go is like a lot of times I go, well, I find the notion of an Android story to be slightly derivative because I've seen a thousand of them at this point, but like, where it wasn't that derivative in the 1960s?

[01:01:29] I don't think it was.

[01:01:29] I don't think they were telling a lot of Android based stories at that time.

[01:01:33] I don't think people knew what an Android even really was.

[01:01:35] I mean, cyborg maybe, but Androids are so they're kind of distinct from cyborgs.

[01:01:42] Okay, so we're going to lay this out because there's actually a running gag in DBZ of Ridge, which is one of my favorite jokes, actually.

[01:01:47] In case you don't know the difference between a cyborg and an Android and Android is a purely synthetic being.

[01:01:55] Yeah.

[01:01:56] And then a, a cyborg is a human being that is augmented or completely replaced with robot parts.

[01:02:03] So, yeah, best way to describe it data from next generation.

[01:02:07] Android, Darth Vader, cyborg.

[01:02:09] Yeah, I guess I guess I would have never considered Darth Vader a cyborg.

[01:02:13] But yeah, I suppose.

[01:02:14] Yeah, he is technically.

[01:02:15] Yeah.

[01:02:15] Well, so the running gag in DBZ of Ridge is that it's not Android 17 and 18.

[01:02:20] It's technically cyborg 17.

[01:02:21] Cyborg.

[01:02:22] And then 16 is technically the only Android 16, 16, 13, 8.

[01:02:27] Cell is an Android because cell is an Android.

[01:02:29] Right.

[01:02:29] He's biomechanical, but he's completely synthetically created.

[01:02:33] I am purely biomechanical.

[01:02:35] Unlike my brother and sister cyborg 17 and 18.

[01:02:39] We call them androids.

[01:02:40] Well, good for you.

[01:02:41] You're wrong.

[01:02:41] Yeah, that's a running.

[01:02:42] That's very funny running gag.

[01:02:44] But then when they do history of trunks, they refer to them as cyborgs in the whole thing.

[01:02:47] And I'm just like, see, that's that's comedy.

[01:02:52] Yeah, that's the thing where it's like I didn't realize it.

[01:02:55] And yeah, when I was a kid, I didn't realize it until I was.

[01:02:57] Yeah, until I was older.

[01:02:59] I was like, oh, yeah, no, they are technically not.

[01:03:01] They're not androids.

[01:03:02] They're tick.

[01:03:02] Well, it was it was the moment.

[01:03:05] And I don't think it's in the show, like the actual show.

[01:03:07] I don't think they ever say I think it was in one of those like magazine interviews

[01:03:11] he did where he said their names, what their names were.

[01:03:14] And then it was like, oh, yeah, he they were kidnapped by Dr.

[01:03:17] Giroux.

[01:03:17] And that's where all that stuff comes from.

[01:03:19] I don't think that's the in the show proper.

[01:03:21] It is.

[01:03:22] But after the fact and the thing is, you can only make the cyborg androids joke if you

[01:03:26] know that which when it was in the manga and anime stages, they were referred to as androids.

[01:03:32] And this is how good the joke is again.

[01:03:34] When Trunks first shows up, if you haven't seen Dragon Ball Z, I apologize.

[01:03:38] But when Trunks first when Trunks first shows up in the show in DBZ Abridged, he starts

[01:03:44] describing him and Goku is the one who goes androids.

[01:03:47] And then Trunks actually says technically they're cyborgs.

[01:03:50] And then Goku just goes androids.

[01:03:53] And that makes sense when in the the prime timeline future when they face the androids the first

[01:04:01] time 19 and 20, they're actually facing androids.

[01:04:04] Yeah.

[01:04:06] But one fact that's about about the time travel and real real quick, it's implied that the

[01:04:12] trunks that that goes back to if you pay attention to the to the actual Dragon Ball Z, it's

[01:04:19] implied that the trunks that goes back to tell Goku that's not the first trunks that went back in time that

[01:04:26] there's another trunks that he went back in time, got the blueprints for the androids, didn't actually talk to them or encounter them, went back to the future, gave

[01:04:36] gave Bulma those those those blueprints and he defeated his androids.

[01:04:40] And that's the trunks that sell kills to go back in time.

[01:04:43] So it's a separate trunks.

[01:04:45] Yeah, yes, yes.

[01:04:46] I never picked that up the first time I watched the show.

[01:04:48] I was like, oh, that blew my mind this time.

[01:04:50] We disagreed on this episode.

[01:04:52] And again, not in any sort of animosity because we're very good at disagreeing.

[01:04:55] We'll still be friends.

[01:04:57] But yeah, yeah.

[01:04:58] And I admitted I knew I was like Justin's going to love this episode because Justin likes the silly.

[01:05:03] I love the silly.

[01:05:05] I don't.

[01:05:06] I like the serious.

[01:05:07] I can do comedy, but the the overly silly.

[01:05:11] I'm just I'm just not as big of a fan of.

[01:05:13] But OK, OK, OK.

[01:05:15] Wrapping up.

[01:05:15] What about it?

[01:05:16] Did you find it be?

[01:05:17] Oh, because we haven't really touched.

[01:05:18] We didn't really touch on it to wrap up.

[01:05:20] What did you find about it?

[01:05:21] That was like overly silly.

[01:05:23] Like what about it was overly silly for you?

[01:05:26] Just the premise and the fact that this is another one of those episodes where in order for it to happen,

[01:05:31] there's a lot of contrived stuff where everybody at some point in the story,

[01:05:36] everyone who's the focus has to be an idiot at least one point in the story.

[01:05:40] OK, that's fair.

[01:05:41] That is fair.

[01:05:41] I do get that.

[01:05:42] Like they have to do things that are very, very dumb, uncharacteristic, like.

[01:05:48] And at the end of the day, if they can beam somebody down, they can just beam somebody up.

[01:05:54] So when the doctor requests Kirk come down alone, that's a massive red flag for me.

[01:06:00] Yeah.

[01:06:01] Yeah. It should be for Kirk, too.

[01:06:02] I mean, it was.

[01:06:03] He was kind of like, well, right.

[01:06:06] But he to be fair, he did land and immediately was like, something's off.

[01:06:10] I send me two red shirts.

[01:06:12] I should have said a gold or a blue shirt.

[01:06:13] They would have been fine.

[01:06:14] It was like, yeah, something's off.

[01:06:16] Let's go deeper.

[01:06:17] Yeah.

[01:06:18] Yeah.

[01:06:18] Yeah. OK, fair.

[01:06:19] That is fair.

[01:06:20] That is fair.

[01:06:20] And then just the Kirk's answer to beating the androids is I'm going to make them feel emotions.

[01:06:28] Yeah.

[01:06:29] My thing with it is he's just he's just OK, quick to murder, quick to murder.

[01:06:33] He's just like, I'm going to make her so horny.

[01:06:36] She's going to question her very existence.

[01:06:40] Actually, there is a bit of Gene Roddenberry in there because there's a line that Andrea says to Nurse Chapel that I'm just like, this is a straight up lesbian fantasy coming onto the page when he's like.

[01:06:49] When Andrea is like, I've been programmed to pleasure you, too.

[01:06:54] And I'm just like, this is a lesbian fantasy.

[01:06:56] Yeah.

[01:06:57] Yeah.

[01:06:57] Yeah.

[01:06:58] Yeah.

[01:07:00] But one highlight of this episode.

[01:07:03] We got our first red shirt fatalities.

[01:07:05] We are now we do.

[01:07:06] We are now at two on the list.

[01:07:09] And boy, I mean, not they're not they're not playing.

[01:07:11] We're going to be going to breakneck speed now.

[01:07:13] I can assure you, I feel it.

[01:07:15] Yeah, I feel it in my bones.

[01:07:16] I feel like we're going to get at least one an episode from now on.

[01:07:20] On the whole, there's going to be a handful where we don't.

[01:07:22] But we'll see if we get one next week when we go over the episode simply titled Miri.

[01:07:29] Until then, live long and prosper.

[01:07:32] Watch Star Trek and watch the final frontier.

[01:07:44] I did not love this episode.

[01:07:46] I'm not going to lie to you.

[01:07:47] If he's purposefully manipulating her just to get more information, I'm like, I don't like it.

[01:07:51] But at the very least, the motivation is anytime I'm like, no, this isn't that silly.

[01:07:57] Yeah, he's doing a Kirk role or a Kirk uppercut or a Kirk.

[01:07:59] And I'm like, OK, no, I get it.

[01:08:01] We'll see you next week.

[01:08:01] Bye.